X-Rob: decimation: A lot, but, I happen to have a power generation station as a customer, and I have a couple of racks in their computer room that I get for free.
decimation: X-Rob: what do you pay for electricity there in australia?
ThickAsThieves: Altcoin brings new blood to the chan too
mircea_popescu: that's like, the one type this chan was missing, someone who actually enjoys that part.
X-Rob: Actually ending up with coins is just the end result.
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: I'm more of an engineer. I like setting it up and doing all the management
decimation: The mind reels. I guess people are willing to pay a premium for virgin coin?
X-Rob: I normally aim for 10% above theoretical
decimation: X-Rob: do you generally find that you can lease your rig for more than what the forecasted average payback should be? (on a per megahash per day basis)
mircea_popescu: ah the 12.7th hthing is idle ?
X-Rob: And I need to find out why the big one is slow.
mircea_popescu: rather than getting depressed for no reason.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you can rent his other rig for a few hours to help cut through the current glut.
mircea_popescu: ill make it .24 for the first one so it comes out to an even 2 btc.
BingoBoingo: They end up in MPIF ThickAsThieves
X-Rob: mircea_popescu:1xrobauEmhLwVnTmLbs6M92n1xGFAFbgq is my address, and you're comitting to pay to that address .22BTC per week for 9 weeks, for a total of 1.98BTC. First payment will be within 24 hours, and then every 7 days after that. If you miss a payment, the deal is void, and I'll feel really annoyed, as I'm leasing below cost now, to average the price.
ThickAsThieves: i'll chip in if the ATC end up somewhere agreeable
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ this is for you.
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=NORP | NORP. Acronym for "Normal Ordinary Respectable Person." Used as a pejorative by those who consider themselves part of the counterculture. "This party ...
RagnarDanneskjol: "Sure the super-heroine that cooks very well, enjoys her bukkake work and is a F1 pilot by day could exist, just like the sharpshooter specialist in classical Greek literature with a side of stockbrokering could exist. The odds however are too one in ten trillion for the mere ten billion population of the planet to provide. We have enough trouble getting eleven people together that can w
ThickAsThieves: it wasnt even a normal human life, i just kinda needed to shut out even more of the world for a bit
BingoBoingo: Oh, that's in the lawgz
ThickAsThieves: they also hired mjr
mircea_popescu: they just mostly failed a round of looking for moneyz i hear.
ThickAsThieves: just after the longs got shook down a day ago
ben_vulpes: the usage...
ThickAsThieves: the power to make bitcoins will only get more and more tempting
mircea_popescu: however, the only people who accept the latter are people who also have some sort of insulation in place, so they don't actually care.
mircea_popescu: the thing with it is that it's a minor liability, when compared to major liabilities such as banking pseudobux.
dignork: TheNewDeal: also for potential somewhat anonymity
ThickAsThieves: and the tax avoidance prolly
RagnarDanneskjol: nope, is the time and service you're payin for
TheNewDeal: I'm confused though, I would figure there would be a discount on cash
RagnarDanneskjol: I have a good relationship with these guys, they tend to offer me descent rayes to buy or sell: http://comps.biz
mircea_popescu: so what's all this stuff on the forum ?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal that's the situation universally. i keep getting offered in excess of 110% by ppl looking to buy.
TheNewDeal: ragnar, do you buy any btc at all? The localbitcoin prices around here are like 105% bitstamp minimum, more like 110% for anyone with some feedback
decimation: X-Rob, that's pretty neat to have a freepbx dev here. There needs to be some method to move some of this onto shortwave
RagnarDanneskjol: yep. i stopped using them over a year ago, am just fine paying street xchange fees whenever I ned usd now. Fortunately, in SoCal, I can spend btc all over the place, rarely need to convert anymore
penguirker: New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/
mircea_popescu: i dunno why the surpriose, it was never the case that coinbase was respected or respectable.
RagnarDanneskjol: they are literally a proxy for bitstamp
TheNewDeal: and they rely on bitstamp
RagnarDanneskjol: yep, still doin it on the regular or so I've been told by 'inside sources'
TheNewDeal: i've heard of them doing that approx 1 year ago, have they been caught doing it again recently?
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, they suspend normal service anytime price momentum shifts by x% either direction
ThickAsThieves: wonder if it's an issue on the way up
ThickAsThieves: sure, but they did/do have it to where people can't buy whenever price is low
RagnarDanneskjol: right, the delivery time is variable/inconsistent
TheNewDeal: what's the coinbase situation?
dignork: Oh, you probably mean express/immediate whatever they call it buy, i nerver managed to set it up, so it always was few days for me.
RagnarDanneskjol: diginork - beware, those orders might go through anytime - and never leave those pending orders with them - they resume trading as soon as their books level off, just keep refreshing if you must use them
BingoBoingo: And the username it wants is the address it pays to in the coinbase transaction, so super verifiable
dignork: i have multiple pending buys, all scheduled for +6 days from the time of purchase, never followed if they actually keep the schedule though.
RagnarDanneskjol: coinbase has been playing that game for a long time - anytime market shifts >15% in either direction. fukin bozos
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo so what's the atc pool situation ? where's X-Rob to point his miner ?
assbot: Pushing the soft tender flesh of a friend against the sharp rotating blades of the immutable machine. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/pushing-the-soft-tender-flesh-of-a-friend-against-the-sharp-rotating-blades-of-the-immutable-machine/
TheNewDeal: i'd think a slight reduction is the most one could ask
TheNewDeal: well what do you expect, all the retardation to just up and disappear?
TheNewDeal: can you update the trilema listing article to include 1) be less retarded.
gribble: POW/MIA flag - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POW/MIA_flag>; The National League of POW/MIA Families — The National League ...: <http://www.pow-miafamilies.org/>; Defense Prisoner of War/Missing Personnel Office: <http://www.dtic.mil/dpmo/>
mircea_popescu: also why idiots stay away : they'd rather nurse a bevy of retarded ideas than actually do some work.
ThickAsThieves: if the owner of a business doesnt like you and finds you pointless, how can you expect to do business?
mircea_popescu: well okay, so in the future when you'll be you won't be able to have a bad idea anymore.
bitmia: I'm not, it's for the future :)
mircea_popescu: seems to me you're not there yet.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user bitmia: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=bitmia | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=bitmia | Rated since: never
RagnarDanneskjol: whats the business plan?
bitmia: mircea_popescu: thanks, I've actually read your post. however it still isn't clear if it'd get listed if you personally don't like the idea or consider the business venture to be pointless
gribble: How does one list on MPEx ? pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/how-does-one-list-on-mpex>; By definition the rightful owner of any coins is "he who can ... - MPEx: <http://mpex.co/faq.html>; Why List On MPEx? | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski: <http://contravex.com/2014/07/15/why-list-on-mpex/>
mircea_popescu: must suck to be the most powrful country in the world, can't even blend a strawberry.
ThickAsThieves: nope, they said early Aug
TheNewDeal: Tat any response yet from the gubbermint on usms sale?
TheNewDeal: i just couldn't think of the word
TheNewDeal: did mech engineering schooling at the university, added in some computer science and robotics
X-Rob: to steal another word
TheNewDeal: bah, couldn't think of the word
TheNewDeal: and the 6 meters refers to signal amplitude?
X-Rob: TheNewDeal: it's a range, yeah.
TheNewDeal: just the channels to tune in to?
mircea_popescu: the current thinking is more like "if we need freepbx we'll go to ham radio!!!"
mircea_popescu: this is pretty cool and something long entertained here. i suspect decimation's gonna be all over you, among others :D
X-Rob: I use it because people take our open source webapp, make piles of modifications, and then don't give the changes back
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: AGPL is just GPL, with the addition of 'if you provide ACCESS to the code, you have to release it.'
X-Rob: Anyway, that code I pasted is AGPL3, but I'm thinking I may re-publish it as MIT or something, as it's hard for people to do GPG correctly without knowing a pile of behind the scenes stuff
mircea_popescu: but if you want to write a piece about how bad it is, why not make it plausible at least was the question.
mircea_popescu: from #eulora : "chetty> so all these people pounding on server for days and 1 crash (mod6 tried to beat up a rock and combat is not something we have done anythng with)."
gribble: You rated user x-rob on Sat Aug 16 18:49:40 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: splendid work on that derpcoin. https://bitcointa.lk/threads/unattanium-broken-by-design.351020/ so much lol..
X-Rob: and I'm xrobau everywhere APART from IRC, so it hasn't bothered me that much
X-Rob: re x-rob/xrobau in gribble - I lost the GPG key for 'x-rob', and haven't really had the enthusiasm to try to get the account deleted so I can recreate it.
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal yeah
X-Rob: There /are/ reasons for it being stupid - and the reasons as ALWAYS 'backwards compatibility'.
X-Rob: specifically, line 282 is the function that captures that information
mircea_popescu: by now we're two in the hole
gribble: You rated user x-rob on Sat Aug 16 18:49:40 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: splendid work on that derpcoin. https://bitcointa.lk/threads/unattanium-broken-by-design.351020/ so much lol..
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user x-rob: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=x-rob | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=x-rob | Rated since: Mon May 16 20:47:55 2011
TheNewDeal: the one you're writing now?
mircea_popescu: now how the hell does that work.
TheNewDeal: any audio electronics experts in the crowd?
mthreat: the previous owner of my black 350z told me he had named the car laquisha, "his black mistress"
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.10 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 5.13 TH/s
mircea_popescu: how's the what was it...
mircea_popescu: hey there.
thestringpuller: even the return code...
mircea_popescu: gotta keep the pets fed.
BingoBoingo: This is an amazing thing about -assets, you raise awareness to a problem with one of the pet jokes, and things get done
atcbot: No data returned from PityThePool.com
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform re gpg clunk (not to be confused with pgp issues) : "MolokoDeck : for some reason gpg returns the useful info about the status of a signature verify via the error channel."
BingoBoingo: I sent an email yesterday, suppose I might send another
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo ah, i see. ask the guy to come over ?
ben_vulpes: Imagine reading about a Russian element on Wikipedia, and at the end there’s this paragraph saying “By the way, this element inverts gravity and has to be tied to the ground to prevent it from falling upwards”. An anxiolytic stimulant is really really cool. But somehow generations of American psychopharmacologists must have read about bromantane and thought “No, I don’t think I’ll pay any more attention to that.” <<
punkman: "After a few years of slaughter and starvation "Greatest happiness of the greatest number" is a good slogan, but at this moment “Better an end with horror than a horror without end” is a winner."
punkman: "Whereas Socialism, and even capitalism in a more grudging way, have said to people "I offer you a good time," Hitler has said to them “I offer you struggle, danger and death,” and flings itself at his feet. Perhaps later on they will get sick of it and change their minds, as at the end of the last war."
ben_vulpes: but thanks for the heads up
ben_vulpes: yeah, been working on other stuff.
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask RagnarDanneskjol!~ragnardan@75-23-231-33.lightspeed.lgngca.sbcglobal.net. Trust relationship from user assbot to user RagnarDanneskjol: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 2 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=RagnarDanneskjol | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=RagnarDanneskjol | Rated since: Thu Jun 26 20:35:44 2014
RagnarDanneskjol: yea, I thought I posted that and a bunch of related content earlier today when they were discussing, then come to realize I had no voice, was talking to myself. Carried on chatting with myself for about 45 mins until I realized noone could hear me
assbot: The place for all Bitcoin related puzzles!
ben_vulpes: http://codesuppository.blogspot.com/2014/04/how-to-play-bitcoin-brainwallet.html << and on the topic of scavenger hunts
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, i've been following that one for a while, seems to be the most useful implementation
ben_vulpes: "All I did was load the blocks from disk into memory; which wasn't really accomplishing much."
ben_vulpes: RagnarDanneskjol: "My machine parses this entire data set in roughly 95 seconds." i took a crack at a big-boy-pants parser one time, made all the wrong decisions, hated life. good to see some progress made on the front.
ben_vulpes: RagnarDanneskjol: to the death of IP
assbot: The Gell-Mann Amnesia Effect
punkman: kdomanski: I've had mouse/wifi/etc be audible. Had to move the speakers to different outlet.
kdomanski: punkman: ever seen the speakers on a computer give a creaking noise when you move the mouse? that's my weird PC problem
punkman: ok so I power cycle the thing repeatedly, blue tint goes away, then I move the mouse and it comes back
assbot: Against Intellectual Property? | The Last Bastille
punkman: Ragnar, tried that, nothing. itonly one one side of the monitor though.
RagnarDanneskjol: classic - pee your pants funny. the series totally redeemed itself with that one scene
atcbot: No data returned from PityThePool.com
mircea_popescu: mod6 but in the %p ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: ;;later tell moiety I have some changes to the wiki you might be able to help me with. Ping me when you get a chance. Thanks!
dignork: mircea_popescu: I ran it this way to play with the technology, economical/game theory considerations are not so important for me on alt.
RagnarDanneskjol: i know these guys host/build stratum pools as described: http://www.livechains.net/
mircea_popescu: dignork honestly i think i'd rather use a pool. get some of that reaganomics trickle down effect going.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
atcbot: [CoinMiner Hashrate]: 0.87 TH/s [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user Mortimer452: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=Mortimer452 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Mortimer452 | Rated since: never
X-Rob: You pay them, however often you want
X-Rob: They do all that stuff for me
X-Rob: I'll set it up with you them
mircea_popescu: so since i like you now, you can have 2 btc for the 2 month aus3 miner contract.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: pankkake what's the pool situation on atc ?
chetty: <ben_vulpes> find the correct string, spend the btc!//souds better than rolling dice games :))
punkman: MolokoDeck: in case you didn't see this in the logs: https://github.com/maraoz/proofofexistence
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck and also there's no cruft, perfectly standard tx, can use any webwallet, it's perfect. look no further, this is what i want.
punkman: there's been a few
mircea_popescu: because anyone can spend the something, and in so doing super-prove the whole charade.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck actually i like the model whereby the actual string to certify is hashed as a privkey then made into a bitcoin address then have a little something sent there
MolokoDeck: I'd have to look more into how the stack language handles that or whether that's even doable with the restricted opcode set.
MolokoDeck: was considering something that popped an invalid address then dismissed it before doing the actual spend. sort of a address=hashdata, oops, address=actualwalletaddress
MolokoDeck: burn the minimum transaction fee/size sure.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck if the worst comes to worst, hash it into a bitcoin address and send there.
MolokoDeck: i'm not sure a wallet API is adequate to sculpt transaction scripts to insert data. they're usually constrained to sending payments. bitcoind RPC calls would be needed for anything exotic.
MolokoDeck: wondering what method(s) you had in mind for placing arbitrary hashes into the blockchain.
asciilifeform: i do not know whether it exists.
asciilifeform: someone, somewhere, may well possess the secret of how to build a thermonuke using the materials of ordinary electronics.
asciilifeform: if either side had tested a working pure fusion device, in the customary 'drilled well' method, the public would not necessarily have learned of the fact.
asciilifeform: official story is that both east and west expended astonishing resources on the problem - and, generally believed, that nothing came of this.
asciilifeform: it is generally known that the 20th c. 'holy grail' of nuke engineering was the so-called 'pure fusion' device.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure, but then <mircea_popescu> does everybody know about it ?
asciilifeform: i wouldn't imagine the 'sworn monks' can keep the lid on indefinitely - only thus far. as we've seen, they succeed in keeping the lid on 'suite a' & co. is the argument, then, that the pressure under the lid cannot be too high then ?
asciilifeform: this is almost convincing re: the impossibility argument. but suppose the goods isn't a generic rsa pill, but something more akin to nuke. that is, oppenheimer & friends didn't run off to an island and form own kingdom, because their 'jewel' required astonishing resources to put into action (industrial empire) and not very useful on their own, on paper
mircea_popescu: but mind ye that all through the middle ages about half the bastards were sons of monks.
asciilifeform: so, continuing with this lemma, the 'guard' is an impossibility because, were he to exist, he could trivially order his supposed superiors to disappear forever up their own arses, should he wish this?
mircea_popescu: and this is why wrestling any away is enough to kill the thing.
mircea_popescu: this is why the government needs both the power to kill people and the power to inflate the currency,
asciilifeform: why this dichotomy. is it not possible for them to have absolute power to guard 'the goods' but not, say, to control other aspects of the world ? like any ordinary guard
mircea_popescu: if they are, then they have had to have kept it historically. this is also overwhelming.
asciilifeform: what's the experiment here
asciilifeform: help me along then
mircea_popescu: without the "will be problems" rider this fizzles.
mircea_popescu: but the people doing it have to be in power.
asciilifeform wasn't there, didn't personally boot carter - or gorbached - from the goodies vault. but tale is plausible. compartmentalization of 'fun secrets' is generally easy because of the miniscule number of qualified thieves - that is, folks who apprehend the true value of the goods.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, my q needs an answer :D
asciilifeform: 'mr carter, you aren't cleared for this, and if you ask again there will be problems.'
asciilifeform: and the soviet gdp.
asciilifeform: it went entirely like the tale of gorbachev and andropov
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: familiar with the story of jimmy carter and 'area 51' known to the alien aficionados?
mircea_popescu: but if they are not in power absolutely, what keeps central government from investigating this vault as a possible alien landing site ?
asciilifeform: like the proverbial 'bomb codes'.
mircea_popescu: are they in power ?
asciilifeform: sure. 'indiana jones vault' or the like.
asciilifeform: i'd say it has not been used. waiting to the pig to get fatter, before slaughter.
asciilifeform: well then. suppose, bush sr., or whoever, circa '92, whenever, was informed of the discovery, in his fuhrerbunker. then he proclaims: 'let's get the people with valuable secrets to use rsa. how to do this?'
mircea_popescu: we are already accepting your hypothesis, im asking you q's as if your h was reality.
asciilifeform: how would this world's observables differ from the known observables?
asciilifeform: let's give them some context, then. picture scenario where the $maxint in u.s. cryptologic work actually resulted in something useful. but, so useful that, like a thermonuke, it isn't fit to trot out on just any everyday occasion.
mircea_popescu: this is directly contradictory to how the world works, and specifically because your abstract objects tend to be contextless, which requires too large an expenditure of "meaning" for them to exist.
asciilifeform: but how does this apply? my hypothetical is a historically-humdrum 'skunk works' scenario
mircea_popescu: while in principle any configuration is as possible as any other, the configuration you propose is mod2. ie, if the cell index is odd, cell is dead, if not, alive.
asciilifeform: this is, admittedly, merely a plausible - if fantastic - hypothesis. but one admitted by the known facts. -- like the nonphysical solution to a quadratic.
asciilifeform: the strings, in this hypothetical narrative, are pulled by another master - one of disinfo, whose purpose would then consist of shielding the former greybeard.
asciilifeform: jurov: the hypothetical master doesn't need to. he just sorta sits there quietly and bakes pills against rsa; creates diddled but internationally-appealing block ciphers; etc
asciilifeform: aye. sorta like the japanese version of 'manhattan project'
mircea_popescu: the sadest fate in the world would be for such a set to exist, ina bunker somewhere.
asciilifeform: jurov: perhaps i implied that a literal 'lizard king' lives. this is not a necessary hypothesis for a cryptologically-strong usa
jurov: is there a historical example of such a mastermind?
mircea_popescu: the gods shall strike us down thing is mere eschatology.
asciilifeform: mysticism: 'the gods shall strike us down' pragmatic armchair generalship: 'that fellow might have a pen gun up his arse'
mircea_popescu: it somewhat shares the fate of "frustration" in the hands of popidiocy. but outside of what the reddit horde thinks, frustration is a major psychological process, the fundament of all volitive activity.
asciilifeform: it will make itself known, presumably, if it advances to the front line and 'fires' - but wouldn't it be great to know -before- ?
asciilifeform: for proper mysticism, the hidden side must be deemed 'unknowable'
mircea_popescu: the notion that there exists an unseen reality behind the seen reality, whether right or wrong, is the very substance of mysticism.
asciilifeform: when the apparent column is so suggestive of 'ablative' cannon fodder tactic.
asciilifeform: nothing mystical about thinking like a proper armchair general and pondering the strength of the hidden column of enemy
mircea_popescu: you're possibly the most mystically inclined engineer i know.
mircea_popescu: the spirit of gaius ?
asciilifeform: let's say 'reptilian king' or the like.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let me put it some other way. wouldn't you expect that if mp is conversant in pgp, so would be obama ?
asciilifeform: at the risk of sounding like anatoliy golitsyn (infamous fellow who insists, even today, that ussr faked its own death) - the available, afaik, evidence suggests either terrible - or incredibly good - cryptology
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not necessarily. the inventor, of, say, 'joseki' is probably long dead - but a small army of monkeys (engineers, sw/hw production staff, auditors, etc) have access to 'the goods' - and they aren't leaking either.
mircea_popescu: the stuff you want to know about, three people know. unless one of them is the source, it's not leaking.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the stuff that was leaked so far mostly follows the "brain percentage" criterion.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu how do I get my crafting prize and is there a time limit for that (to know how much time I have to figure out the basics of altcoin)?
asciilifeform: but in all seriousness, a leak history that favours tedious operational garbage and entirely omits the good stuff suggests 'hangout'