Kamuela: so what will happen in my lifetime, you're saying, is that the profit motive will go away, all marginal cost will go to marginal benefit, and unicorns will come back from extinction
mircea_popescu: it will be the rule within your lifetime toh.
mircea_popescu: it only isn't the rule because up until now there didn't exist this chan, and this ideology.
Kamuela: there isn't some mass scheme of exploitation going on
Kamuela: the thing is, if it were easy for builders and maintainers to be owners and operators, it'd be the rule instead of the exception
nubbins`: TheNewDeal: about a week-ish to ship
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal right right.
mircea_popescu: and that means the only way you'll be able to give them a worse deal is for as long as this elephant in the room stays secret.
mircea_popescu: i'll support the idiots of type b directly tyvm
TheNewDeal: but MP, don't you remember the cyperpunks thought up PGP before it was implemented?!?!
mircea_popescu: what i'm trying to impart to you is that this "take capital from idiots of type A and labour from idiots of type B" that silicon valley was built upon is dead in the water.
mircea_popescu: asking is not the problem.
mircea_popescu: Kamuela you know you're just calling it "vision" to avoid saying "ceo is the guy who wants money for nothing and thinks this wil wash"
Kamuela: CEO's contribute vision, investor and customer relations, executive decisions, accountability, etc. could all of these things be "in-sourced," sure, and they are in a lot of cases
mircea_popescu: but anyway : specialisation is not a good thing just for the mere fact that it's specialisation.
Kamuela: are you the type who thinks that
mircea_popescu: this being a recurring discussion these days it seems.
Kamuela: you just want it to be the build crew as well
mircea_popescu: well then fuck him, he can go die in a fire.
Kamuela: mircea_popescu: the coder doesn't want to do that. the coder wants to run a development shop
mircea_popescu: Kamuela no, it wasn't "let me start it". it was "let the coder start it, and run it"
TheNewDeal: I thought he was the funding
mircea_popescu: only in a very distant sort of manner. not in the traditional sense the term is used.
Kamuela: if you're working with them directly, doesn't that make you CEO?
TheNewDeal: whens the downpayment due?
nubbins`: framing it locally would be the sensible option
mircea_popescu: half the value of b-a is taking the entire layer of would-be ceos out of business completely, as there's nothing really they can usefully contribute.
nubbins`: TheNewDeal yeah. buy with a friend to save on shipping ;D
mircea_popescu: Kamuela: briefly, a bitcoin work market a la odesk. development team ready << well, the thing is this : we;ve been wanting something like this built for about a year. finding someone to do it is hard, however, and moreover i won't support a would be ceo on op's work. i'd rather deal with the coder guy directly.
X-Rob: 1xrobauEmhLwVnTmLbs6M92n1xGFAFbgq is the address
TomServo: TheNewDeal: Mind if I PM?
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: yes, please, I was going to remind you about that. Need to figure out the discount though.
mircea_popescu: X-Rob want the same address used each week ?
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal his latest work was quite lovely.
TheNewDeal: I do like your work from what I've seen, but I haven't the slightest clue about this one
nubbins`: price will probably be 40-45 once they're all printed, signed, numbered, and pictures taken
Kamuela: because my connections at differential and the team there represent about 50 years of combined success in MVP's
nubbins`: TomServo: i'm printing them this week, i do have a digital proof but i'd rather show off pictures of the actual silkscreened version. pics to follow, but you're buying blind if you pre-order ;)
Duffer1: b-a are generally firm believers in the Eddy Murphie method of help
Kamuela: i don't mind the real questions, kakobrekla addressed a serious point of "who are you?" that's a real question that has to be answered
Kamuela: there's a real potential to help me out in one way or another, but isn't it boring to make words and contribute nothing?
Kamuela: ThickAsThieves: I don't know about the actual total market, but just odesk takes in $80mm
Kamuela: and how are they going to address a cheaper and lower-hassle competitor even with Bitcoin? will they openly say jobs paid in bitcoin are discounted? i don't think they could do that
Kamuela: meaning there's a whole lot of inertia to fight to make that happen
Kamuela: especially when you factor in the fact that a bunch of the initial contractors are going to underprice in an attempt to gain customers, there's a real value proposition to a competing network
Kamuela: but after that there's a real competitive advantage to 10% and a couple days turn around time and <10% and 1 hour turnaround
Kamuela: the first couple thousand users on a Bitcoin-powered odesk are going to be BTC enthusiasts and folks looking to play around, meaning a release valve for pent-up demand for use of coins, and of course a dedicated following of people who want to try to make supplemental or full-time income doing btc freelance work
punkman: ThickAsThieves: it'd be nice if there was someone playing matchmaker, vetting both sides, guaranteeing whatever he can afford to
TomServo: First comment: Did you have to fight the urge to call it a "pretty good post"?
TomServo: Pff. Schneier says "Matthew Green has a good post on what's wrong with PGP and what should be done about it." (with link of course)
Kamuela: of course that's a bit of laziness on the part of vetting your customer, but i understand that what i call laziness other people call serving needs, which I completely respect the need to do
Kamuela: for example, it seems so far from my interviews that something people really like is the guaranteed payment... something that this project would NOT be offering for at least a while. it certainly would not be part of the MVP
Kamuela: certainly as a competitor to existing odesk businesses, the project will shape itself around the interests of its customers. but what initially or conceptually is wrong with the odesk style?
punkman: Kamuela, having some experience in the matter, I'd recommend against copying the odesks and the elances
Kamuela: well, I'll ftfy: "either way, there's really no rush for I, pete_dushenski, to help get your idea off the ground"
pete_dushenski: to do it well, you'd be well served to get in the wot and spend the next 6-12 months reading every line of logs and getting to know the people around here
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo was kind of disappointed that the Feds addressed me by my slave name << lmao
pete_dushenski: Kamuela: it must be that every member of ethereum has a long history of proven success right? << it must be nothing of the sort and is in fact quite that
punkman: BingoBoingo: did they say "BingoBoingo" at any point?
assbot: A Guide To Buying 5000 Ether/Bitcoin, 2.5x More Than Ethereum's Genesis Sale Offers | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: Kamuela: http://contravex.com/2014/07/23/a-guide-to-buying-5000-ether-bitcoin-2-5x-more-than-ethereums-genesis-sale/
TomServo: BingoBoingo: I would've been thrilled if they used Atruk instead of BingoBoingo. :P
BingoBoingo was kind of disappointed that the Feds addressed me by my slave name
Kamuela: yeah maybe it's a bad thing to mention, i don't want to be lumped into that "ether"
kakobrekla: funny you mention ethereum.
Kamuela: because i'm the guy here asking
Kamuela: many less tangible projects have gotten ridiculous levels of funding, and i am DOING the legwork to make this happen. so when you ask what qualifies me, well, it's because i'm the guy DOING something
Kamuela: it must be that every member of ethereum has a long history of proven success right?
Kamuela: pete_dushenski: who else is committed? have you heard of another project to do this? i'd be both willing to contribute and cease competitive efforts if you could point me in that direction
kakobrekla: the right pace bit :D
pete_dushenski: at least he came to the right place
pete_dushenski: Kamuela: why am i the one? because i'm committed to keeping it useful for people as far as it can be taken. i'm not looking to grow and sell out. my interests are aligned with keeping it one of the most decentralized ways to act in the BTC economy << "committed" is in no way a skill as it's here presented any more than a grade school student is committed to not getting an F.
thestringpuller: not thinking that's the right one
pete_dushenski: Kamuela: you also need to solve the problem of "what is Bitcoin useful for" << classic. like SDRs should buy tacos nao
thestringpuller: i shouldn't have said specifically Si, but more like the gold and silver also stored in the IC's
jurov: re: melting Si - can't the purified Si monocrystal substrate reused to make another IC? asciilifeform what do you think?
jborkl: not to be mistaken with the 1 ham burglar
pete_dushenski: thestringpuller: sure
mike_c_on_the_ro: mod6: fixed.. going to dig into root cause when I get home. sorry for the hiccup.
pete_dushenski: xanthyos: ;;rate danielpbarron -1 fickle with his friends, uses the bible to justify being disloyal << o_O drama
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: decimation so taleb's mistake is that he's being a BANAL asshole ? << he does get a lot of the "o this is nothing new" retort
gribble: The Music of Grand Theft Auto V - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Music_of_Grand_Theft_Auto_V>; Grand Theft Auto V soundtrack - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Theft_Auto_V_soundtrack>; The Music of Grand Theft Auto V: Three Volume Digital Album Now ...: (1 more message)
pete_dushenski: decimation: asciilifeform: "it pattern-matches 'derp' and throws my concentration" << yeah I have the same experience. << you gents need better filters!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: Also Hollywood lied. The FBI agent was wearing a black business suit, but instead a white polo and khakis.
BingoBoingo: mike_c_on_the_ro: Prolly. After I take a shower.
mike_c_on_the_ro: you going to immortalize them in a blog post?
BingoBoingo: My impression of them before the badges cam out was they might be process servers come to harass me over student load debt.
BingoBoingo: Really weird thing was the Agents suggesting that I'd never expect them to find me. I DON"T WORK THAT HARD TO KEEP ANONYMOUS. I just do the minimum to keep poor kids in shitholes from harassing me into giving them money.
BingoBoingo: So I'm looking like a fucking sweaty unkempt hobo meeting with these guys in the front lawn.
BingoBoingo: The shitty thing about the ordeal on them asking about the goddamned Silk Road I didn't use was their knocking woke me up from my day-slumber
BingoBoingo: !up mike_c_on_the_ro
BingoBoingo: They were prolly so insistent because it would suck to be them and drive all of the way down here to meet with a person as boring as myself.
BingoBoingo: ARE THERE NO FBI OR TREASURY AGENTS IN ST LOUIS.
BingoBoingo: These agents apparently came all the way down from fucking Peoria, the one's card says.
Kamuela: TheNewDeal: thank you
TheNewDeal: it's true, all unkempt hair & bearders at one time used the silk road
BingoBoingo: The seemed so fucking incredulous that I with my unkempt hair and beard, could have somehow not used the silk road
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: BTCPak was kind of a Gyp, but at the time it was the only thing that really.... Seemed reliable
TheNewDeal: did they give you a decent exchange rate
BingoBoingo: They were like no one uses Bitcoin actually at Overstock.com ; I'm like... actually I totally bought a watch and some other shit http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/01/13/overstock-com-prolly-not-a-scam/
BingoBoingo: Seriously the kept saying suggesting everything in the Bitcoin was shady Tor related stuff.
TheNewDeal: did they mean it looks Anonymous?
BingoBoingo is thankful he managed to avoid the whole Silk Road thing.
TheNewDeal: what the hell does that mean?
BingoBoingo: Duffer1: They said because it looks so anonymous.
BingoBoingo: It was an Pasty Irish FBI agent who didn't want to stand in the sun and a Treasury agent
BingoBoingo: At the time CoinBase wasn't a thing I'd heard of
BingoBoingo: It was a site, you send Bitcoin they sent prepaid reload codes.
Duffer1: did they ask about your own bitcoin holdings?
BingoBoingo: Yes, asking about the Silk Road
BingoBoingo: I tried to explain the stupid Devcoin thing I used to get Bitcoins.
BingoBoingo: In the heat
BingoBoingo: Nope, we stood in the front yard and talked
BingoBoingo: Nah, Just let them in on all of my nothing I knew about a connection they suspected between DBordello's BTCPack and The Silk Road
kakobrekla: did you give them cookies?
TomServo: I mean assbot quoting the actual log entry
kakobrekla: it sez right there, Logged on 10-08-2014 11:09:36
assbot: Logged on 10-08-2014 11:09:36; moiety: I really didn't know what to say yesterday but I've had time to think now. I will leave the phone line on for the remainder of the term when I can and update the blog but I won't be able to be on IRC. Since I won't be on IRC anymore, if there is anything I should really know, please leave a message on skype or the blog. The reasons being, this isn't working out for me and I need to focus on working to keep
kakobrekla: TheNewDeal she left for undetermined amounts of t-matter.
Kamuela: kakobrekla: it was me, but i've had that domain for years and years (previously) and some of the older stuff definitely reflects being 11 years old!
Kamuela: kakobrekla: thank you, man, for both the voice and that
kakobrekla: (fyi i send everyone there, even ninjashogun - bad cases get slaughtered sooner or later)
kakobrekla: Kamuela well anyway, i can only show you the door, you are the one who has to step through it; http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/first_steps_in_bitcoin-assets
Kamuela: getting out is a bit harder, but something the initial contractors will shoulder voluntarily
Kamuela: the superniche initial target market are just Bitcoin supporters and enthusiasts, but ultimately it can compete with something like odesk by undercutting its fees especially as in many places getting into Bitcoin is getting ridiculously easy, meaning obtaining it
Kamuela: speculating? that's it? one of the biggest uses of currency is in transaction and the building of capital. we have some stock markets and that's great and will continue to grow along with 2.0 uses, but as a currency it needs to facilitate real trade
assbot: trixisowned comments on With the mtgox fiasco being long forgotten, Mark Karpeles launches a new business, "forever.net" selling VPS, VoIP & dedicated servers: bitcoin is NOT accepted.
abathingape: http://np.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2eh2du/with_the_mtgox_fiasco_being_long_forgotten_mark/ck058mn?context=3
Kamuela: you also need to solve the problem of "what is Bitcoin useful for"
Kamuela: the technology isn't decentralized first, but the idea that anyone can offer services and receive Bitcoin as compensation is the most decentralized of all exchanges, imo
Kamuela: why am i the one? because i'm committed to keeping it useful for people as far as it can be taken. i'm not looking to grow and sell out. my interests are aligned with keeping it one of the most decentralized ways to act in the BTC economy
Kamuela: someone who shares the interests of many for a Bitcoin work market, a go-to for both supplemental and potentially off-grid lifestyles
Kamuela: and for it to be truly competitive to something like odesk, it will need to be flexible enough to establish itself in an overseas jurisdiction only when completely necessary. meaning dealing in USD first and setting up a bank account makes it legally complex from the getgo
kakobrekla: ok so who are you and what makes you think you are theoretically capable of running such a thing?
thestringpuller: so you come to us #b-a this the day of our daughter's wedding
Kamuela: i could attempt to develop it myself, but my skills there are really crap. i have designs and nearing full use cases for the MVP
kakobrekla: so you wanna be the ceo and pay someone to code something up?
Kamuela: I'm in talks with differential to do it in the meteor framework
kakobrekla: what is the project about?
Kamuela: i'm trying to figure out the best way to crowdfund a bitcoin project. i really want to give equity and profit-sharing because i think anything else is BS
nubbins`: meantime, your 5 posters should be printed and mailed out within the next week or so
kakobrekla: that is not even the point for a while now.
nubbins`: although this does bring us to the question of how you can throw things into magma
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: re: irc - perhaps the conformal servers?
mircea_popescu: this is a lulzy proposition, but too complex a point to try and explain it. cheaper to just let people try and pick up the pieces later.
mircea_popescu: Duffer1: looks like he was credited, but i can't tell what the website is supposed to be << best i can determine, it's aiming to be a b-a without the ba, predicated on the theory that you can somehow have ideologically neutral sources of power.
mircea_popescu: pankkake: uh, if Bitcoin is the French revolution, I'm out << the discussion was to amplitude. it is just as large an event. as i say there, it just happens to be going the other way, that's all.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: what a waste of silicon with such a limited lifespan.... << one of the more abundant elements and what sand is made out of. i never thought i'd see one feel sorry ~for silicon~
assbot: The Times January 3 2009 - Imgur
nubbins`: one of the reasons why i got out while i still could
mircea_popescu: nubbins`: tyvm for the pre-announcement 8) << it's out of this world how the guy does things innit.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: What brings you round these parts. (apologies If I've asked before, I drink) << i'm stealin gthis one.
mircea_popescu: interesting "When a buy or sell order is submitted, the ANXBTC platform receives matching orders from an extensive number of buyers and sellers who have registered as part of the ANX Open Dealer Network. " << "we selftrade. deal with it"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
fluffypony: so it doesn't really matter who issues them :)
mircea_popescu: <fluffypony> it seems decent - based out of Hong Kong, so that's their primary market the cards are backed by a bank in Poland << so weirdly contradictory.
Kamuela: content that wasn't republished from somewhere else. am i totally wrong? do all those cite their original sources?
Kamuela: not saying they're more than essays though or that the main focus of that area is lots of content
Kamuela: ah yeah, same here. you said blog aggregator though, which is why i said that it seemed they were original articles, which they are, right?
assbot: The Memory Pool | Satoshi Nakamoto Institute
Kamuela: TheNewDeal: we may be talking about two different things
pankkake: they're credited and were asked
Duffer1: looks like he was credited, but i can't tell what the website is supposed to be
TomServo: Gah, I forgot MP had an article there.. it was probably: http://nakamotoinstitute.org/gpg-contracts/
Kamuela: I'm trying to fix chrome so I can show you lol, the process refuses to die
Kamuela: did I probably butcher the real name? lol let me try to get the link. give me a moment to delete my chrome profile...
Kamuela: I read the article on nakamotoinstitute that mentioned this channel
TheNewDeal: I was reading an article the other day that the founder/owner created it after helping mark karpeles run mt gox
nubbins`: TomServo, got it from another collector :D
b00lcrap: there was an Easter egg hunt?
nubbins`: they're very hard to find
nubbins`: ^ just arrived in the mail :D
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pankkake: uh, if Bitcoin is the French revolution, I'm out
ben_vulpes: <BlueMeanie4> some of these bitcoin people are reminiscint of the french revolution. for a few weeks they thought they could completely redesign the whole universe. << that party did rewrite the rules, and bitcoin'll do the same.
jborkl: I am not sure on that one 100%, I don't think there is anything worth it
thestringpuller: I was just wondering because I used to do IT for a company that would buy large amounts of old CPU's, and sell them to recyclers who would extract precious metals from them.
thestringpuller: or would their be a way to recycle the components in some kinda "liquidation event"?
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user nubbins`: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 6 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=nubbins%60 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nubbins%60 | Rated since: Wed Oct 16 19:58:53 2013
pankkake: ;;gettrust thestringpuller nubbins`
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user nubbins: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=nubbins | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=nubbins | Rated since: never
nubbins`: tyvm for the pre-announcement 8)
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user petenineteen: Level 1: 6, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=petenineteen | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=petenineteen | Rated since: Wed Aug 20 22:28:26 2014
thestringpuller: nubbins`: the designer will email you with a signed message
atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 718.23 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.26 TH/s
gernika: Ah. Well, I'm interested in bitcoin. Been reading the logs for a few weeks now.
BingoBoingo: What brings you round these parts. (apologies If I've asked before, I drink)
wywialm: thanks for the info
wywialm: the ANX card is not anonymous, is it?
BingoBoingo: Oh, the things Jimmothy posts when he isn't persecuting mircea_popescu for being European https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=521520.msg8507845#msg8507845
fluffypony: wywialm: I actually have an account with them from a couple of years back, they're Polish
RagnarDanneskjol: ANX is good people. I know them personally. I'm pissed someone else got their card before me
punkman: interesting "When a buy or sell order is submitted, the ANXBTC platform receives matching orders from an extensive number of buyers and sellers who have registered as part of the ANX Open Dealer Network. "
fluffypony: the cards are backed by a bank in Poland
fluffypony: it seems decent - based out of Hong Kong, so that's their primary market
fluffypony: plus they posted me a letter with a code to confirm my address on file
punkman: also, is their exchange any good?
mircea_popescu: apparently they took out her largest part.
mircea_popescu: In 1933, Bankhead nearly died following a five-hour emergency hysterectomy due to venereal disease. Only 70 pounds (32 kg) when she left the hospital, she stoically said to her doctor, "Don't think this has taught me a lesson!"
BingoBoingo: Ah allegedly I myself into trouble all the time
BingoBoingo: Oh, that part of the problem
mircea_popescu: you don't understand how the government works. it'll never pay you to do something you're already interested in.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I have WoT! as some people from other channels might suggest...
mircea_popescu: how could they possibly trust you ?
BingoBoingo still has yet to recieve spam from the SEC/CIA/NSA/DHS/DEA/NYDSFMOGWTFBBQ asking him to read Trilema for them...
assbot: Logged on 23-08-2014 19:26:23; BlueMeanie4: hey if the mod is going to silence me for no voiced reason mid conversation- why bother?
mircea_popescu: the log is so self referrential omfg. first there's http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-08-2014#806551 then there's http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-08-2014#806604 sometimes it feels like it just works on its own.
BingoBoingo: "In net opposition to this bizarre and at least in appearance sick model of social organization, the harem shows some clear advantages."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: exponentially difficult << 'learn' for translating a diplomat - perhaps hard; reading articles in your armchair slowly - not so hard << the diplomat in question doth protest.
mircea_popescu: the point being that while you're welcome to disagree in practice, your doing so is arbitrariety not reason.
mircea_popescu: so, "the ideal treatment of one does not differ from the other for reasons that are derived from prime principles".
mircea_popescu: "nu exista in principiu" means there doesnt exist (nu exista) for absolute reasons (in principiu, roughly, following from principle, for reasons derived from prime principles)
mircea_popescu: Nu exista in principiu o diferenta de tratament ideal < tratament ideal is, "ideal treatment", in the sense of normative, prescriptive treatment.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you got most of it flawlessly, but the intro is a bitch