asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: much of the material stolen by mitrokhin was either boring, or too juicy to print
mircea_popescu: this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: he printed a large number of variations on 'sword & shield', most repeat themselves in a genuinely dreary way
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, on a related note what's your opinion about 'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew ?
decimation: when I went there was a fellow there who apparently was part of the crew that would enter the underground 'cave' formed by an explosion
decimation: in vegas off the strip there is a 'nuclear testing museum: I recommend going if you find yourself there.
asciilifeform: anyone who wants to see these ruins - suitcase, airplane, don't wait for the scrap dealers.
assbot: Project Crossroads Nuclear tests near the Bikini Atoll - Baker Shot 1946 - YouTube
decimation: asciilifeform: usg nuclear bombing ships: yeah there's the famous 'nuclear attack on fleet' bomb series at the bikini atoll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv9yS0tRFhI
Apocalyptic: It's more out of curiosity than out of potential usefull procedures I may apply in the future
asciilifeform: (when 'war game' simulations revealed that all american ships would perish within hours, they started rigging the 'games')
decimation: The intention might have been exactly what that video shows: wash away all the people in the city, then occupy
asciilifeform: but really this is one of those 'games where the winning move is not to play.'
asciilifeform: (i.e., how to bury, given that you will only be able to find the location again using geographical clues - and trees, buildings, etc. can disappear over the decades)
asciilifeform: worth reading solely for the 'geocaching' craft.
asciilifeform: if you somehow learn where one is - don't touch it. they were all mined.
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: there's an account in english-language 'the sword and the shield' (mitrokhin) of one swiss cache that was dug up when he tipped off the local authorities.
decimation: you quoted a story about how they recruited 'agents' in those territories?
Apocalyptic: "read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories." // any particular book in mind ?
asciilifeform: back to topic - if you really must hide physical objects, read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories.
asciilifeform: (why? ask them)
asciilifeform: the americans, for some reason unknown to me, pre-empted this project by destroying own industry.
asciilifeform: as steam, to wash the factories with.
asciilifeform: not simply as a hiding place, but as the weapon
asciilifeform: the point of the proposal, according to legend, was to specifically make use of the water.
asciilifeform suspects that proposal was vetoed as laughable because the nukes in russian embassies make it redundant.
decimation: I suppose if they were close enough to cities that would be feasible
asciilifeform: (at the time, u.s. had industry, and a good portion of it was in that region)
asciilifeform: with idea being, no need to bring them to surface before firing
asciilifeform: 'we fight like men, not thieves in the night'
asciilifeform: i later learned that v. n. chelomei (famous soviet rocket designer) proposed the placement of atomic bombs near u.s. east costs using a scheme much like this. (official story - it was vetoed as barbaric)
decimation: I suppose if the purpose in hiding the object is simply to escape the gulag, it would be better to start planning your escape now
asciilifeform: if you have an object that is worth, say, 100k to hide and retrieve, go ahead and follow recipe. but also consider the easier 'sell it and run with the money'
asciilifeform: (after capsule pops to the surface)
decimation: which raises the question, is a reasonable hydroarray a feasible addition to said small sailboat?
asciilifeform: don't drop the treasure near 'SOSUS'
jurov: um.. but with increasing amount of ocean trash, won't you have a problem to locate the capsule once it surfaces from $ kilometers?
asciilifeform: if you have enemies who will follow your sailboat around in the atlantic, you have other problems that must be dealt with first.
decimation: good point. Notwithstanding the logistics issues. The advantage to your sea-vault is that it could be (in theory) sunk with submarine, which would probably be difficult for any advanced gov't to track.
decimation: asciilifeform: what about "find granitic megalith (like Yosemite), build hut, dissolve deep hole using HF, then fill with concrete?
asciilifeform: ^ might be the hardest part
asciilifeform: also ensure that the hidey-hole can be found without recourse to satellite navigation.
asciilifeform: make sure capsule has enough excess buoyancy when triggered to rip itself out of the crud that sunken objects inevitably embed themselves in over time.
asciilifeform but likes the idea anyway. a few km down in sea is the closes thing nature gives us, afaik, to a 'trap door function' for physical goodies.
assbot: List of nocturnal animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: hydrophone on wire.
The20YearIRCloud: how do you use a signal that will penetrate the water?
decimation: when the population is several orders of magnitude less dense, "me and my army say so" is a more realistic source of power
asciilifeform: i don't know who al might've shared the recipe with, but u.s. navy funded almost exactly this scheme as a mega-project a few years ago.
decimation: asciilifeform: re: raising an army: The scale of humanity today is such that being a 'land baron' is almost impossible. Consider Mr. Yarvin's quote-of-a-quote: " As the laws of King Ine of Wessex famously put it: We use the term "thieves" if the number of men does not exceed seven, and "brigands" for a number between seven and thirty-five. Anything beyond this is an "army."
asciilifeform: build a capsule, of the smallest adequate size (al suggested inconel or hastalloy for the material. not cheap - but then again, it'll be a small fraction of the total cost of project)
chetty: <asciilifeform> if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice//++
asciilifeform: and buy the obligatory set of new passports / favours
asciilifeform: if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice
asciilifeform: very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property
The20YearIRCloud: That's likely always the best defense
asciilifeform: forget present-day law. the pertinent question is 'who knows that you have $object'
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: generally those states (like nevada) use the words "allodial title" to mean "pre-pay your land tax"
asciilifeform: treasure - is usually a result of folks who bit the dust without ever getting to make use of the $goodies.
The20YearIRCloud: ND and WY i think are two states that allow a person to buy absolute land, with no further taxes involved outside of day of sale, with no government recourse
The20YearIRCloud: There are states that are working towards true land ownership
The20YearIRCloud: i look to what people did during the yugoslovian war for modern examples of waht , and what not to do
asciilifeform: if enemy knows you have $goodie, and you are captured - might as well mail it in to the crown treasury now - avoid burned starfish later
chetty: if you own a bit of property (not really but thats another story) there is a paper trail that shows it ...how you gonna hide anything?
The20YearIRCloud: One good thing with modern technology is the premise of doing waht they did in breaking bad and putting a 55 gallon drum in the middle of nowhere and record GPS locations
decimation: asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere
The20YearIRCloud: Plenty , but the problem there becomes the idea of how you access it in a time of emergency should it ever be needed
asciilifeform: again, depends not only on the 'what' but 'from whom'
The20YearIRCloud: So what's the best option?
asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: bad idea. in many quite probable scenarios, one loses access to 'own' property first.
The20YearIRCloud: thus why i hate the idea of safe deposit boxes
asciilifeform: even ignoring the traditional devil of 'fdr gold confiscatorwagen' (tm) - bank essentially gives itself permission to steal whenever.
asciilifeform: decimation: something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost << conclusion: bury your goods in the forest. fuck bank.
chetty: <decimation> well the good part is I got a lot of work done on Eulora today :)
decimation: chetty: no problem, I always look forward to the interesting nuggets you have on offer
decimation: What has happened to banking in the US is parallel to the "substitution calculations" done by usg for inflation - ie a ground beef patty with filler is the same as a well-cooked steak.
decimation: failed to exercise ordinary care. Nor will we be required to prove that the loss was not our fault."
decimation: re: safe deposit box << My bank's terms say: "We will not have any liability to you or any third party for incidental or consequential damages. If an arbitration proceeding is commenced, evidence that tends to prove that something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost because we were negligent, intentional did anything wrong or
The20YearIRCloud: There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em
The20YearIRCloud: safe deposit boxes only have the safety of being in a somewhat controlled environment
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the insureds will always complain about inadequate coverage, and the insurers will always complain about social inflation.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re: 'coinbase insurance' post - little story. recently i had occasion to rent a box at a bank (storage of various paperwork for firm.) the contract was a hilarious read. bank only insures a box for up to 25k usd. and specifically excludes damage from robbery, fire, water... virtually anything.
kakobrekla: different from the one last time
gribble: The operation succeeded.
kakobrekla: did you have another design done?
Vexual: and a lens that makes ophtamologists rub their hands ith glee
fluffypony: it's definitely the brightest
fluffypony: csshih: question - since my one SC51 has grown legs, I'm looking at replacing them with the SC52d. any thoughts? what's the alternative for AA singles?
Vexual: missgivings aside theres lessons unleant
Vexual: i see ykyo there lurking
Vexual: either was my wrist hurts
kakobrekla: just use the fly fishing rod.
RagnarDanneskjol: I have all the modules sitting around somewhere - will get them to you this weekend
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, tao has a number of calc functions... some are listed here.. there are others
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: National Report is like the Onion only stupider. Basically just made up stories.
Vexual: but the onion does serve some truth with that bullshit flavour you love
kakobrekla: what is this another onion ?
cazalla: not that, the swatting article
assbot: Merriam-Webster Adds Anti-Masturbation Word to Their Dictionary : FAPSTINENCE | Stop Masturbation Now
punkman: http://stopmasturbationnow.org/lexicon/merriam-webster-adds-anti-masturbation-word-to-their-dictionary-fapstinence/
Vexual: what time is it there kako?
BingoBoingo: Better than the Times
Vexual: nothing quite like the onion
assbot: Researchers: Panda Faked Pregnancy To Get More Bamboo | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
BingoBoingo: http://www.theonion.com/articles/researchers-panda-faked-pregnancy-to-get-more-bamb,36809/
assbot: Were Going To Enjoy This Cocaine-Fueled Mason Jar Rocket Ride For As Long As It Lasts | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
BingoBoingo: http://www.theonion.com/articles/were-going-to-enjoy-this-cocainefueled-mason-jar-r,36779/
Vexual: i think the kangaroo scrotum coin purses are made in oz, but largely, yes
cazalla: this the markets Vexual?
Vexual: oh, and just across the road from the asian place is the markey where you can find cheap electronics and aussie souveneir tshirts with vulgar slogans, 3 for 10
Vexual: lowenbrau for bratwurst the basement for jazz
pete_dushenski: ;;rate ben_vulpes 3 runs van-ads live from the 504
Vexual: and they wont dig out
punkman: they don't like a crowd
punkman: haven't heard of anyone farming them
cazalla: it's an idea, they aren't prone to calici or myx if memory serves
Vexual: there you go caz, big fat hares t whever punk is
punkman: I'm not really sure about the taxonomy
cazalla: nah they are totally difference
Vexual: arent they just big rabbits?
Vexual: how big does your freerange zone have to be before you can call them wild?
cazalla: how much do they charge?
Vexual: my butcher has rabbit, and i know the value, im talking of value adding
cazalla: i planned to do bees in the spring but i'm putting it off until we move, i can't adhere to the regulations they set for doing it here
cazalla: when we move, i want to build some type of enclosure so they can run around and effectively be wild
Vexual: put your house in the middle
cazalla: dunno, i did read the industry is dead, something like 100 farms reduced to 2 due to costs
cazalla: taking out might be fine, nfi on bringing them in, they went through all our shit when taking the car across on the boat
cazalla: Vexual, they do, a breeder i bought a british giant from drove all the way to tassie to get them from a woman that breeds them there
assbot: L.P.D.: Libertarian Police Department - The New Yorker
cazalla: Vexual, i wonder if i can bring them in
Vexual: your rabbits prolly command a higher price in tassie, people apprecieate good meat down there
gribble: Tassie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tassie>; The Silver Tassie (play) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Tassie_(play)>; Urban Dictionary: Tassie: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tassie>
pete_dushenski: “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
pete_dushenski: “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
Vexual: wha urbanspoon wont tell you is the cigar list is epic and girls should dress slutty
cazalla: winters are a little colder here, i've lived in sydney (maroubra) and that's the only difference, anecdotal of course
cazalla: melb is pretty much the same temp as sydney
pete_dushenski: unless the cops high five me...
pete_dushenski: we're just at the south tip of hyde park
pete_dushenski: we're not staying far from there
Vexual: when an aboriginal kid died at police hands they rioted with vengence
assbot: Diane Whittaker interview The Block: Stories from a Meeting Place SBS Redfern Interactive Documentary
Vexual: gentrified by hipsters these days
cazalla: check out "the block" at redfern
Vexual: old cobbled streets, these days with lights
Vexual: at night, head to the rocks, theres a german spot there, 2 litre beers and bratwurst and snitzel
assbot: Doyles on the Wharf Restaurant Reviews, Watsons Bay, Australia - TripAdvisor
pete_dushenski: http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g552124-d949190-Reviews-Doyles_on_the_Wharf-Watsons_Bay_Woollahra_Greater_Sydney_New_South_Wales.html << this one?
Vexual: find chinatown for lunch, dixon house has a foodcourt, you'll be smoked out with burning meat and spices, jostle for a seat with the asian kids, feels like hongkong
Vexual: get up pearly and catch the ferry to manly where youll find doyles on the wharf, gesture to the bacon and eggs
Vexual: i'll assume you've been drinking all the martinis, and have or want a girl or boy on your arm
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/of-mendacity-mold-bugs-and-other-things/#comment-106873 >> lmao check out douchecanoe << ;-)
assbot: German publishing house Heise showing how modern Journalism is done: OpenPGP Keys for all their journalists. http://t.co/DVwZQpOrnk (ger)
pete_dushenski: the marbles
assbot: Mr. /CharlieShrem, in taking it in the pooper like so http://t.co/qZe3na3Zd7 only proved his mousy illiteracy http://t.co/556Zm8Lku4
pete_dushenski: <ben_vulpes> also: if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor << too good!
assbot: Y Combinator: The American Idol of Venture Capital | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp. << sounds aboot like http://contravex.com/2014/07/31/y-combinator-the-american-idol-of-venture-capital/ but less original
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: looks like conformal co. passed the 'test.' << with flying colours!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how's the coffee ?
ben_vulpes: "I respectfully question how you can authoritatively champion mining code written primarily in another language entirely." << because fuck the reference implementations.
ben_vulpes: " My dislike of other mining nodes is a consequence of directly correlated forking dangers of alternative mining code, and I think we both know that." << one of these days i'm going to get left behind as reward for my courtesy of loyalty to the power rangers i can feel it coming but maybe if i complain a lot in public maybe the inevitable won't happen
ben_vulpes: "Bitcoind core itself of course mostly tried to accept both forks and let the stronger one win." << sounds like the sort of thing a "core" "dev team" should really address - maximum fork size < utxos? mhm.
ben_vulpes: forks are how bitcoin-core dies. quit burning fuel trying to prevent the inevitable.
BingoBoingo: The great hazard of being salmon though is being recognized as to delicious to simply render as biodiesel by every living thing inclined to pescitarian consumption
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is - these salmon want - a rocket. and so will have to do some things they're unaccustomed to.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do. <<< this is only meaningful in a centralist approach.
asciilifeform: must assume this happens, whether 'tor' or simply playful isp / backbone operator
assbot: Logged on 03-01-2014 03:15:35; asciilifeform: there are tor exits silently pumping ascii through 'sed' or the like, slipping 'friendly' btc addrs in place of originals.
decimation: perhaps I could change the bitcoin addresses to something friendly :) http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-01-2014#435478
asciilifeform: but must understand, this is likely a popular 'sport' and anything you see - will have been seen by plenty of others
decimation: even with payload crypto it would be interesting to watch the incoming packets
asciilifeform: decimation: popular bot << no need for 'bitsquat' here. most of the clever sort of botnet use domains generated weekly, based on time of day. but, clever folks also use rsa signatures for payload auth.
decimation: the fun version of this would be to squat on a domain predicted to be used by a popular bot
gribble: Bitsquatting: DNS Hijacking without exploitation - dinaburg.org: <http://dinaburg.org/bitsquatting.html>; Bitsquatting - [media.blackhat.com] - Audio and Video from Black Hat: <https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Dinaburg/BH_US_11_Dinaburg_Bitsquatting_WP.pdf>; Examining the Bitsquatting Attack Surface - Cisco Blog: <http://blogs.cisco.com/wp-content/uploads/Schultz- (1 more message)
decimation: probably the majority of btc nodes run non-ecc ram
asciilifeform: just the now-ubiquitous non-error-correcting memory.
asciilifeform: contest / student exercise - find the most interesting one.
asciilifeform: just as with the discovery of ionizing radiation, people suffer needlessly because they 'intuitively' believe that invisible thing can't kill them
asciilifeform is in the process of meeting this standard for a different application, and it is very labour-intensive. but necessary.
asciilifeform: that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do.
asciilifeform: back to subject - imho btc client is 'safety critical code' - but none of the existing implementations rise to even the most basic standard for such.
asciilifeform: showcases how little the 'dictionary approach' gives.
decimation: Sounds legit. kinda like the existence of google translate is given as a reason not to learn another language
decimation: asciilifeform: because better compiler = more people thinking they don't have to understand what the machine is doing?
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 03:30:44; asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind.
asciilifeform: it was a terrible setback, though not for the reasons herr stallman gives
decimation: "The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'"
decimation: people just copy & paste the whole thing with GPL to all platforms
mircea_popescu: (the point being not to win, but like in any koan, to contemplate what the win means)
mircea_popescu: this can be a decent graduate exercise. "write the longest asm program that does the same thing on all platforms. you may pick what it does yourself."
asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind.
asciilifeform: not only google, but apple, and microshit before them, turned away from traditional 'gcc' suite and proclaimed elaborate crud in its place. i could only ever assume - for ease of 'thompsoning' people.
decimation: because the code wasn't machine code or MIX...
justusranvier: Speaking of specs, davec found parts of bitcoind script validation that involved behavior undefined by the C++ spec, meaning it's theoritically possible to compile it with a non-gcc compiler and get two bitcoinds that will fork on a carefully-crafted transactions.
mircea_popescu: which is why i took exception to the "why cant we all get along" derpage from midnightmagic yest.
asciilifeform: i must confess that the conformal/power-ranger war does not concern me personally, because 'happy is the man who has one leg, one sock doesn't tear, one boot isn't needed' - and i intend to solve the pertinent problem with own hands before it begins to concern me personally.
mircea_popescu: forcing specification through mutually disjunct implementations is the best we get.
mircea_popescu: what are they going to do, write out a spec then have the bitcoind horde pretend "it fails" ?
decimation: asciilifeform: why not focus on producing a readable RFC first is the question..
mircea_popescu: hey unknown person from the interwebs
justusranvier: Oh that? Of course I can see how it's funny. The pathetic part is how people lie about what happened.
justusranvier: So some companies, including mining pools, are interested in running btcd. For some reason, said companies sometimes ask the Bitcoin Core team for advice before doing so. FUD ensues.
justusranvier: They are trying, though
mircea_popescu: justusranvier lol they can't compete on fud, this is a long established point.
justusranvier: It's just pathetic to watch the Bitcoin Core team and/or their fanboys compete on FUD when they can't compete on code quality
justusranvier: But they know their block wasn't bad because they submitted it to a local, isolated bitcoind before they broadcast it to the network
mircea_popescu: the entire thing is really a meaningless exercise. who the fuck cares what happens on testnet.
justusranvier: We don't know exactly at what height their block was originally mined
justusranvier: More than one of them
justusranvier: The history rewriting attacks were 100+ blocks long
justusranvier: All we know is they had the capability to do so, and they just so happened to reorg out of existance btcd's first ever mined block, and just so happened to start doing it after they publicly announced having done so.