moriarty: in the UK, the same thing happens, but it is done more surreptiously so the pain is less obvious
moriarty: i imagine singaporeans must be accustomed to not getting their way at anything
moriarty: mircea_popescu, so if photography has low demand but high applicant rates, then most of them get rejected
moriarty: mircea_popescu, singapore took your opinion to a slightly more extreme point, their university application form consists of a ranking of six majors, and the state then allocates a major to you based on a threshold that is demand-adjusted
decimation: Vexual: The clock is going to drive various rf devices & data capture systems
moriarty: bounce, it is cheaper to go to some universities than others, geographically as well as prestige-wise
mircea_popescu: the observed property is based on not having been tampered with
moriarty: bounce, but you had universities catering across the spectrum of students
mircea_popescu: yeah well this socialistoid idiocy... "currently college ed people are upwards movbile let's give degrees to anyone wait that changes mobiliy ?!?!!?" is like, become a woman, they liove longer.
moriarty: bounce, well, not across the board
bounce: the degrees dropped in difficulty AND value?
moriarty: that sounds like singapore then, a social experiment in of itself
moriarty: and then a recent mass study conducted indicated social mobility did not happen despite more people than ever having university degrees
moriarty: it happened in the UK unfortunately
mircea_popescu: you can not run for office unless in one of these two categories.
mircea_popescu: then 50% 12 years and 5 to 10% 16 years. and that's it.
mircea_popescu: actually free mandatory quoted education is imo the way to do education. 100% 4 years, if any kid fails it shoot him. 99.x% 8 years, if any kid fails he is not allowed to ever have sex with another. no matter what.
moriarty: a la free online education via the MIT initiative, OCW, noble though it is, vis-a-vis the good ol' paid education you get face-to-face
mircea_popescu: nol but the free education thing i can see. if you're going to teach everyone the same thing (language) might as well do it for free. your show, your tickets.
mircea_popescu: they can sit on a chair.
mircea_popescu: fuck them ?
moriarty: mircea_popescu, to help the poverty stricken
moriarty: then of course we can get a little more creative and consider public transportation too, to be a form of welfare
moriarty: bounce, food subsidies is another example
moriarty: bounce, well, in the most direct form, but you can always indirectly do welfare, free education for instance, is one such example
mircea_popescu: not currently. permanently. not by anything but simple game theory.
moriarty: mircea_popescu, of course this ideal is currently impeded by what i consider to be a gross infraction on one of the basic human rights, that is the freedom of movement across borders, one trivialised by border control and such
mircea_popescu: moriarty this is a nice theory anyone would subscribe to. both those who will and those who won't. after which, disaster of commons.
moriarty: mircea_popescu, i see countries as clubs, that if you do not like the constitution or culture, then you are welcome to join something more to your inclination
moriarty: mircea_popescu, like it or not, a country has got to stand up for the reason it was founded, otherwise, there is little point to be loyal or even nationalistic about it, when it can be hijacked philosophically
moriarty: bounce, any form of redistribution from the haves to the have-nots is welfare, from medical insurance to unemployment benefits
mircea_popescu: so i go to #electronics to see if either asciilifeform or diametric hang in there. they have a bot, i do !help, it says
bounce: just to be clear, what do you understand to be the defining properties of a welfare state?
moriarty: it's hard to be free market, when the party dictates who lives and who doesn't :P
moriarty: so china may be "capitalist" but its roots and the one-party system would ensure that their brand of capitalism would almost likely never converge to american capitalism
xmj: either anarcho-capitalism or socialism. social welfare states have come to be sooooo sooo sooo socialist that heck, Lenin would be proud.
moriarty: xmj, a balance between welfare state and free markets, and how much of a blend depends partly on the origins of the country, a la its constitution, and the culture trickled top down from previous political establishments a la informal variant of the constitution
moriarty: xmj, i don't take it too literally, anything taken in its pure definition does not exist in reality, there are no socialist or capitalist society today
xmj: moriarty: yes, that is how it works (exit vs voice), but most people are already in the land you'd like ancapistan to be
moriarty: xmj, sure, but demands of any kind play a subservient role to the sanctity of the constitution, and if ancaps were to form a nation, they could very well enshrine those principles in there
xmj: moriarty: and as much as the ancapists a la kinsella and molyneux would like to believe, they cannot overcome this with non-monopolist private security agencies
mircea_popescu: so what, stick to the fleshlight and egg custard crowd over on austrians ? i guess can do that, sure.
moriarty: mircea_popescu, that would not be very meaningful these days considering how some no longer buy/sell bitcoin unfortunately
xmj: moriarty: there will /always/ be demand for state and redistribution, because the lower 51% will want to loot the upper 49%
xmj: moriarty: here's the problem
moriarty: mircea_popescu, i've done a sybil on localbitcoins though :) just so i don't get pinned down as the guy with shitloads of bitcoin
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu. Trust relationship from user assbot to user mircea_popescu: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 26 via 26 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=mircea_popescu | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=mircea_popescu | Rated since: Fri Jul 22 11:04:26 2011
moriarty: xmj, but there is an appeal to anarchist capitalism, once you look past the easy conclusion that capitalism requires some sort of legal framework in which to operate in, so not fully anarchist, but then looking past that, they do have interesting opinions
moriarty: xmj, no, i don't tend to look at myself dichotomously, i'm an assembly of aspects from both sides of the political and socioeconomical spectrum, left and right as they conveniently classify it
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i know, but it was for his benefit. give the man a chance to redeem himself.
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gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user moriarty: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=moriarty | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=moriarty | Rated since: never
moriarty: xmj, well black swan for starters has its roots in the classical Humean dilemma :) (i've referenced him because i know mircea_popescu would like it)
mircea_popescu: this flows from the definition
pete_dushenski: other than btc
mircea_popescu: paper is a minor nook anyway, in the grand scheme of things.
mircea_popescu: hence the earlier discussion with decimation about how much the nist asked him to pay, and how it's basically "come with a note from stalin"
mircea_popescu: pretty much entirely integrated. no policy in the us can be implemented without control of the currency.
mircea_popescu: a metal coin is literally like a whore. 0 integration, she fucks random other men.
mircea_popescu: integration, for the record, is simply a measure of mutual dependence. think in terms of a couple. the more things they do together, te more integrated they are.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: sorta the way roman coinage did, eh?
pete_dushenski: not that the row will much care what happens in somalia
mircea_popescu: scrip will definitely outlive the usd.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu to the extent that it's highly integrated and there are few obvious alternatives
pete_dushenski: so then us scrip should have some life left in it
mircea_popescu: nah, the reichmark wasn't nearly as integrated.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: so the usians have alternatives? or...
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski not the same pressures. i meant usg specifically.
mircea_popescu: and recently i have been giving them away for free, so.
mircea_popescu: ah. the consensus here is that domains are worth about 10 bux,
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: currency can survive about five minutes with a dead usg << more complicated. reichsmark outlived reich by a few years (until occupying armies got their shit together) << didn't roman coinage remain in some limited use into the middle ages because of lack of alternative?
sardan_: anyone would be interested in purchasing/doing something with the domain BitcoinCasino.com?
sardan_: I sent you an email by the way, not sure if you received it (regarding a domain)
assbot: The Misbehavior of Markets: A Fractal View of Financial Turbulence: Benoit Mandelbrot, Richard L. Hudson: 9780465043576: Amazon.com: Books
moriarty: mircea_popescu, http://www.amazon.com/The-Misbehavior-Markets-Financial-Turbulence/dp/0465043577
moriarty: mircea_popescu, finance or economics, is closely linked to the political nuances of a country, so whenever one reads journals by personalities like Paul Krugman, nobelist though he may be, i always read it keeping in mind his political proclivities
moriarty: mircea_popescu, actually, the conversations in finance are not as cohesive unfortunately as in other fields, so the flipside of that is today the popular strand of conversation happens to be a fork that the more seriously inclined would not fully agree with or find it a bit juvenile
mircea_popescu: in point of fact, there exists no intellectualy respectable economist outside of buffett that lived in the 2nd part of the 20th century.
moriarty: plus i've been unduely influenced by the work of Sokal, Bricmont, i.e. Fashionable Nonsense
mircea_popescu: and the argument that taleb is "popularizing" brought by butthurt but otherwise worthless "statisticians" in their own estimation neatly mirrors the same criticism brought by "economists" in their own estimation re buffett.
moriarty: mircea_popescu, i've read works by Lacan and such, and i feel almost as if i have to delve into some metaphysical reality, and not take them at their analogies seriously, especially when they try to use precise notions from mathematics to attempt to build some sort of bridge to their reality
mircea_popescu: i can be well spared the "conversation" of pointless academics trying to publish or perish. not worth following.
mircea_popescu: moriarty looky, if the conversation were worth following, then 30 years of the finance industry following it would show some benefit for it.
bounce: well, regurgitating old ideas like they're your own smacks of intelectual dishonesty. do it without that and shed some detractors.
moriarty: mircea_popescu, i guess i can see why from a philosophical sense, if one has inclinations towards the literal and the objective
moriarty: mircea_popescu, so i suppose we ought to thank the popularists for at least reminiscing some of the past arguments for the popular public to enjoy a flavour of, and perhaps bring some publicity to what would otherwise be dusty fields relegated to the backshelves of some university library
mircea_popescu: i don't think the conversation is worth keeping up with.
moriarty: mircea_popescu, well, i guess it was easier being a popular philosopher or statistician in the past, when one did not have to read countless landmark academic papers in order to keep up with the conversation, as one has to these days
moriarty: xmj, i am fully for stupid people not procreating, but i suppose that threatens the sanctity of humanity above the animal kingdom, we seem still unable to fully accept the depedestalisation of homo sapiens
moriarty: xmj, how much better are the neoreactionaries aiming for? :P
moriarty: a popularist of sorts, amalgamating opinions of the past and attempting to take credit for it
moriarty: Ayn Rand is the philosophical equivalent (you would know this better than me), of Nassim Taleb of the statistical world
moriarty: mircea_popescu, anyone gullible enough to believe the authenticity or originality of Ayn Rand deserves to live in Galt Gulch :P
xmj: and, some of the ideas particularly appeal. like, not having the social welfare state fund the procreation of stupid people, because... they're stupid.
xmj: moriarty: it's funny. i've seen the progression AnCap -> NRx happen a few times
xmj: no that's the neo part
moriarty: xmj, neoreaction from first glance off the internet appears to be one of those anachronistic romanticism :)
moriarty: xmj, thanks for the link
moriarty: mircea_popescu, heh, well i made a fortune off bitcoin, but i never saw the point in holding a strong philosophical stance on the utility of cryptocurrencies
assbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: <moriarty> mircea_popescu, out of curiosity, your background, academically/work? > http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/#comment-99232
mircea_popescu: moriarty not the point to make a one liner, it's like chess. you construct his argument by asking me questions or w/e other discursive procedure you favour.
moriarty: mircea_popescu, well, i'd try not to dilute his book into a one-liner, but essentially a blend of technological warfare i.e. guns, a serendipitous adaptability to germs via advances in medicine, and progress in transport hulls made out of steel, which arose incidentally from ideal farming conditions e.g. arable land which gave rise to a choice of livestock, was why the seemingly unequal
mircea_popescu: bounce so then not so entrenched ?
mircea_popescu: bounce that bit seems contradictory. how can you coerce the entrenched ?
xmj: he's pioneered a good deal of the "reactosphere" -- neoreactionary blogosphere
moriarty: xmj, i got routed to ##austrians from ##econometrics when someone made an observation that some of my comments leaned towards ancap tendencies, so i'm newer to the scene, although i've always found a blend of hayes/keynes economics to be most delightful
bounce: bit of a problem where all you get is package deals run by people who, because they run the show, suddenly have all sorts of entrenched interests and become vulnerable to all kinds and manners of coercion
mircea_popescu: moriarty yeah he's the guy who spent 2012 insisting bitcoin can't survive, then started a bitcoin kiler of his own which we kiled
bounce: doesn't appear to've held up to the ages though.
mircea_popescu: let the us not be a federation of states but a marketplace of states.
mircea_popescu: bounce the original idea of "voting with feet" as implemented in the us is exactly that.
moriarty: Jared Diamond tries to take a holistic look into the apparently serendipitous distribution of wealth among nations
bounce: IMNSHO there's no universal magic perfect government size, so it comes down to choice. what do we want our government to do? well, maybe we could start a market to find out.
moriarty: but very nice article nevertheless, i haven't read something interesting in awhile :)
mircea_popescu: o look, xmj still derping around on the basis of his 3 year experience. hai babee, how goes.
xmj: moriarty: they talk, and talk, and push out academic papers- --- and never do antyhing.
assbot: A complete theory of economics pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
assbot: A complete theory of sociology pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: moriarty > http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-sociology/ http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/
mircea_popescu: you can't possibly allow change on the grounds of marketplace success like that.
mircea_popescu: well i implement it wherever i can. seen the economy and sociology articles ?
mircea_popescu: there's one language, it's purely conventional, this makes education purely arbitrary to begin with.
gribble: The Mises Review: Anarchism/Minarchism: Is a Government Part of ...: <http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=340>; minarchist on Tumblr: <http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/minarchist>; Difference Between Minarchist and Anarchist? - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P-Ez5rMRxM>
gribble: Minarchism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minarchism>; Anarcho-capitalism and minarchism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism_and_minarchism>; The Mises Review: Anarchism/Minarchism: Is a Government Part of ...: <http://mises.org/misesreview_detail.aspx?control=340>
moriarty: they're mostly minarchists
moriarty: i was grossly disappointed to say the least
xmj: because it makes you lose money and they make a profit off that.
xmj: that's the thing a futures exchange would say.
kakobrekla: in the spirit of user friendliness
bounce puts one and one together and starts cowriecoin. instant legit.
kakobrekla tempted to give them a gox response
kakobrekla: there is nao!
Vexual: fuck your wnakholw then
cazalla: chicken and feathers seems a pita
Vexual: theyve got a thick neck on em
Vexual: id have to brain them
cazalla: i dunno, i think the brits brought em here
cazalla: and then i cut myself half a dozen times butchering it as the adrenaline still had me shaky
cazalla: so i kill it except i don't break it's neck right and it's jumping around with it's head bent to the side, squeeling like fuck
punkman1: no fur for the wife?
Vexual: and what do you do with the skins?
cazalla: it's over for them in seconds
Vexual: you might wanna eat it before the cute little fucker shakes you down
cazalla: i doubt the guy i bought em off fully knew their background anyway, there is always people flogging pure bred crap on gumtree that clearly is not
cazalla: i will, i'll keep ya updated, would be easier if it's a female, don't need another buck
cazalla: this lucky lil' niglet will be spared the pot though
cazalla: anyway, maybe it's due to the buck or the doe, nfi, i'll keep it and breed it back with either parent and see what's what
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
cazalla: now this rabbit has had about 60-70 kits in total, always white, just like nz, the guy i bought em off said they were pure
cazalla: nz doe had a litter other day right
Vexual: well them: im waiting for a mate
Vexual: theres always something you can say
Vexual: decimation, whats the clock for?
BingoBoingo: cazalla I will cover stupid and cave when it covers the stupid that hurt me so more in the past
Duffer1: though it's hard to tell if it's that or the steroids
BingoBoingo: Duffer1: No, an elected officer of the county, allegedly
BingoBoingo: Can I cave to less prison? No, The false Islamic State government must concede to amnesty.
BingoBoingo: punkman1: It can be up to either money I don't have or a month of my time they WILL regret
punkman1: disorderly conduct, wouldn't that just require a donation? or do they take kickbacks from the local prison baron?
BingoBoingo: Neither slave nor slave driver
BingoBoingo: The cost to the leaches is much more than that to me, to an extent they won' know until they fuck themselvves
BingoBoingo: If I am captured god Help the bubba assigned t break my spirit
BingoBoingo: punkman1: That one is ignorant of the question at all, to make this shit more ridiculous
punkman1: BingoBoingo: oh they don't take weekends off?
BingoBoingo: Also Atlas Shrugged Part II might be the best adaption to film evar
BingoBoingo: When it comes to the matter of wether I will ever plead to anything... Watch the actor playing Rearden in Atlas Shrugged part 2. Or play a game of chess with me.
BingoBoingo: I will admit missing the person who admits to allegedly being an enemy of mine while I hugged his greatest oppontent.
BingoBoingo: It is not minimal, but maximal responsiblility that sets the work I will take.
BingoBoingo: << WHo watches the watchers?
punkman1: buy some in a dark pool or private deal, pour some money in the exchanges, watch your money grow
punkman1: TheNewDeal: why? not that much money really
gribble: Bitstamp | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 23659.909 bitcoins, for a total of 21442613.6279 USD and take the price to 99999.9900. | Data vintage: 31.3611 seconds
gribble: Bitstamp | A market order to buy 5000 bitcoins right now would take 2263217.8941 USD and would take the last price up to 479.9700 USD, resulting in an average price of 452.6436 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0305 seconds
assbot: Logged on 13-02-2014 01:28:18; asciilifeform: "You should hold on to some cash, for purely didactic purposes. I remember my great-grandmother, who passed away when I was seven, and I remember playing with her little hoard of kerenki - ruble notes in ridiculously high yet worthless denominations that had been issued by the Russian Provisional Government, under the leadership of Prime Minister Alexander Kerensky... ... I was quite taken with the te
asciilifeform: (this gedankenexperiment, if not obvious, concerns usd kept around as physical coinage, rather than spreadshit figures.)
asciilifeform: (in the lack of immediate alternative.)
asciilifeform: to continue the heart/liver analogy, the currency is like the many (most) organs which can operate on fermentation, and outlive what one normally thinks of as 'death' by hours or even days.
asciilifeform: currency can survive about five minutes with a dead usg << more complicated. reichsmark outlived reich by a few years (until occupying armies got their shit together)
decimation: heh more old news: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-03-05/microsoft-ceo-nadella-inherits-legacy-of-ballmer-board-division#p1 << "Nadella appointed onetime Democratic political operative Mark Penn to the just-invented post of strategy chief and shuffled other executives to resolve an unwieldy setup Ballmer had established in the marketing department." << USG ministry of computing
[]bot: Bet placed: 7.22 BTC for Yes on "Dolar Blue over 20 Argentine Pesos on or before Feast of the Immaculate Conception (Dec 8th)" http://bitbet.us/bet/1044/ Odds: 60(Y):40(N) by coin, 58(Y):42(N) by weight. Total bet: 12.43237601 BTC. Current weight: 92,710.
mircea_popescu: in general the more liquid an asset is, the more likely requisitioned. land is hard to carry so often left with it's alleged owner.
decimation: because 'own' has been redefined to mean "the government gives you permission to do X"
decimation: dead usg << I find it amusing that folks like the20year think that owning some raw land is a defense against such cataclysms
mircea_popescu: assbot: American Bitcoin exchange CEO, 28, researched suicide methods before jumping from a Singapore highrise due to 'work and personal issues' | Daily Mail Online <<< they forgot to mention what he read. it was http://trilema.com/2010/viata-suge-cum-ne-omoram/
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: its okay, i have faith the usg will mismanage itself into oblivion long before the dollar fails from due course << this is like hoping the heart will cease functioning long before the liver gives in. in reality, they're so interconnected their demise is a cvasi-simultaneous event willy-nilly.
mircea_popescu: peterl kinda the point.
mircea_popescu: jesus i missed all the fun
peterl: you can't buy it all, the rest of us want a share too
mircea_popescu: decimation: if you find a mob who is all derping the same thing, is it a conspiracy or organic knowledge discovery? <<< it's the internet :D
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: i for one would buy thousands of btc if it went to 0.3, and im sure many in this channel would too. it'd hasten the demise of some common enemies << thousands, srsly ?
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03:it just occurred to me how much of a fight btc is going to be in for with the usd over the next decade < duh :)
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03: assbot dead? << well the logs were working
mircea_popescu: so yes bitbet is sitting on something like 30 btc in unrealised fees that will come in during the next ~6 months
peterl: but other bets have been heating up too
peterl: question about bitbet: are fees booked as income when the bets are placed or when the bets are resolved?
asciilifeform: http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/DOC_0006122432.pdf << censored official american 'intro' on lev theremin.
decimation: another reason to use noscript I guess
decimation: ah interesting. I tried the 'german' overlay but I just found it really annoying ('tis a QWERTZ layout')
assbot: Man climbs White House fence; races toward mansion before being seized - The Washington Post
asciilifeform: the word 'efficient' alone is meaningless.
mike_c: only 7 months for the coroner's report. efficient!
decimation: which octopus is the question
asciilifeform: mike_c: the death - ancient news
asciilifeform: it being a tendril of the octopus in good standing (whatever appearances to the contrary) - why susprised.
decimation: not that it really matters much to the deceased
asciilifeform: decimation: folks can talk on the gallows.
decimation: what is this 'price of entrepreneurship'? if your job sucks, leave? why jump out the window?
decimation: "On February 10, Radtke posted a link to an essay entitled 'The Psychological Price of Entrepreneurship' and commented obliquely that 'Everything has it's price'. In comments posted on the day her death was announced, her friend Krystal Choo, who founded the online travel firm ZipTrip, said that 'This exact post has been killing me."
nubbins`: the new what times?
mats_cd03: asciilifeform: i guess not. but, that would be the least of my problems if i lived in, say, cape verde.
decimation: are we saying that the new york times is respectable now?
asciilifeform: mats_cd03: usg is the only party you would like to keep from fully knowing how much you hold and what ?
mats_cd03: its okay, i have faith the usg will mismanage itself into oblivion long before the dollar fails from due course
nubbins`: all the canadian exchanges require id
decimation: if you find a mob who is all derping the same thing, is it a conspiracy or organic knowledge discovery?
nubbins`: bitstamp is the null argument ;D
kakobrekla: 'the exchange rate'
kakobrekla: afaik is still following the exchange rate