Dimsler: probably a whitey then
Dimsler: looks like 91 / 92 was the ashleys
assbot: Most Popular Baby Names for Girls in the USA (53 Photos)
assbot: Most-Popular-Baby-Names-for-Girls-in-the-USA-014 | FunCage
Dimsler: http://www.funcage.com/blog/most-popular-baby-names-for-girls-in-the-usa-53-photos/most-popular-baby-names-for-girls-in-the-usa-014/
mats_cd03: i could not ascertain whether 'ashley huff' is a common name for whites or blacks through research
bounce: doesn't say what the bond was set at
mircea_popescu: suppose you tell me what number you'd like put on it and we can both go home having recreated the entire us state in five minutes.
bounce: could even work out what's supposed to be the optimal speed through the system and so what the size of the various budgets like for forensic labs should be
bounce: so the question is more of a "can we put some numbers on this?", of about the same accuracy as typical economic numbers like GDP
bounce: or we could consider that accounting seems pretty solid on the outside but then proceeds to consist of lots and lots of handwaving. "what's this worth? well, uhm... how about $thismuch?"
bounce: well, if you go there I say "uncertainty principle" and energy and matter go out the window too
mircea_popescu: the moral of this koan being that nothing is quantifiable, except for the things which are already : energy and matter. not space, not time, not the chain of causality.
mircea_popescu: bounce to rehash a limb of the previous discussion, you maybe heard that the best way to sink a good start-up is a bad revenue source early on. same thing with your thief : the opportunity cost of being a criminal is major in that you don't feel as much pressure to develop more useful traits.
chetty: (we leave out the month she probably ought to get for eating that crud, but I digress)
mircea_popescu: which is a lot more than the statal excrescency on human society.
mircea_popescu: but this is conventional and as such brings into question convention altgoether, as a device.
mircea_popescu: it's deeper than the govt legitimacy problem, too. it's the conventional nature of it that's the major destructive factor.
mircea_popescu: so why even bother with those violin classes she was saving up for ?
mircea_popescu: it's the fact that she now can't plan, because lo and behold, randomly sent to jail.
mircea_popescu: bounce it's not the month in jail, just like the problem with stealing isn't really that omg, someone's going to miss what you stole.
bounce: the fear of it and the government losing legitimacy, yes. wasn't thinking just the economic side of things.
chetty: the fear of it is a lot bigger problem
bounce: wonder if you can quantify the damage to society by things like that month in jail for essentially no reason
mircea_popescu: "knock knock" "whos there" "privilege checking"
bounce: geddit.com, all the jokes from reddit
mircea_popescu: totally the illustration for this.
thickasthieves: the only real currency we have is time
gribble: Other People's Lives (2011) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1924339/>; The Lives of Others (2006) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/>; MODEST MOUSE LYRICS - Other People's Lives - A-Z Lyrics: <http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/modestmouse/otherpeopleslives.html>
mircea_popescu: ;;google other people's lives
mircea_popescu: i'm with him. telling an asshole to go fuck himself is hands down the hardest thing for people.
thickasthieves: sainthood might even be one of the most expensive things
mircea_popescu: exactly, an abundance in practice does not speak as to how the behaviour is expensive.
bounce: does mean a lot of arguing and "convincing" and other crap. doesn't mean the cost keeps on going up; at some point the belief just stops.
mircea_popescu: bounce right back to the routers example :)
bounce: though the expense of lies is exactly in the tracking to try and keep'em straight. in some circles the lies fly so thick that everybody knows there's lots of lying going on, so there's very little point in keeping'em straight
mircea_popescu: uhm. enough to pay girlies to show their tits ? i dunno.
bounce was referring to some scientific study or other. says something about gov't dunnit guv
thickasthieves: <+mircea_popescu> thestringpuller it just makes me rich enough. // is there a difference, maybe a saint was "rich" enough too
bounce: though I'll grant that mobsters risk stomach ulcers more than most other people
mircea_popescu: and here we make the junction with how lying is an expensive activity - you gotta keep track of all the lies.
mircea_popescu: and since we're on it, the "keep her busy" ideology of metastatic xtianity is exactly the same. "no time to think evil." they actually go out and say it.
gribble: klye was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 21 weeks, 2 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes, and 53 seconds ago: <KLYE> Alright. I am off for a bit. Thanks for the invite to talk MP. I will be in touch. I'll also see if I can get you some "I love PM" pics for your collection
mircea_popescu: bounce yes, you will. spending their cattle rustling money trying to impress the wenches.
mircea_popescu: the "good hardworking type" myth is exactly that, too fucking exhausted to be evil.
bounce: well, you won't find cattle rustlers in the city
bounce: there'll be yokels and fat farmers just like there'll be city bums and rich city folk. though I suppose the city folk might be more likely to have opportunity to amass riches.
mircea_popescu: bounce also, postmodernism is fucking with me. pretend the year is 1950.
kakobrekla: thats where the human fish lives.
bounce: (there's this example of big brand name (cisco, forgot the model) routers taking ttl 0 packets and sending them out again with ttl 255)
mircea_popescu: not a good rendition of the analogy tho.
bounce: there's plenty routers that do mostly the right thing but then subtly the wrong thing in some cases, and the costs doesn't show up as prohibitive
mircea_popescu: im saying routers are expensive, you're saying there's a lot of internet traffic.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the implications of a call aren't always obvious, which is a point well understood by security analysts, especilally with all the practice of late, and also how we ended up with all that sweet greek mythology about fate.
bounce: it seems to me that the prevalence of crime even in an otherwise well-run system would indicate that this model of implied excessive cost isn't representative
mircea_popescu: at a damage of 14.4k, as per the most recent data.
mircea_popescu: but if anyone's looking for intricate ways to waste their time, feel free to model a 5 layer system of successive binary calls like that, see how it affects population survavibility and how much space you need to be able to safely fire off both kinds.
thestringpuller: what if stealing is the persons job?
mircea_popescu: but the intricacies of calling wrongthing() in such a way as to not break the entire fucking stack are staggering.
mircea_popescu: the expense is in that it's fucking hard to have asm instructions add one way
bounce: uhm. the expense is in the disagreeability of the rest of society, in fact it's the totality of society that bears the cost
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it just makes me rich enough.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: no way! and yo upaid for the lemmings to be educated. that makes you a saint possibly.
bounce: then they get out, and are unburdened again. and right out after the easy low fruit they're not supposed to take again.
mircea_popescu: not in one way, but who says that's got to be the way.
mircea_popescu: well then...
mircea_popescu: think about it : they DO end up back in, right ?
mircea_popescu: if you actually flip a bit in there, you'll need a shitton of boundry tests to not kill yourself with it.
mircea_popescu: to bluntly simplify, what's good for the cell is good for the organ is good for the organism is good for the group is good for the world. and that's how it naturally acts.
bounce: not everyone is actually burdened by such a thing. there's a reason petty crooks end up in the slammer time and again: inability to own up to their own misdeeds, to admit it was them that dunnit.
mircea_popescu: the name for it you're familiar with, anyway.
bounce: without conscience there's no cost
mircea_popescu: hence the "conscience", a pop reference to that fixed cost.
mircea_popescu: bounce no see, the brain is not an abstraction, it's an evolved mechanism. thus it has some channels which work a certain way to maintain it alive. malice requires your ability to isolate super processes from micro processes, so to have the former work backwards.
asciilifeform: what is one, without other.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're basically looking at the cables. the cables aren't a machine, the transistors are th machine.
mircea_popescu: and most people can't be bothered to learn math.
asciilifeform: point being, a small (biomass-wise, in the count of active participants) malicious agenda goes a long way coupled with great quantity of passive (non-malicious executors) biomass.
asciilifeform: malice - expensive? sure. only in the sense an arsonist's ir laser to torch 'reichstag' from 10km away is expensive. the fuel for the fire - 'watershed management' or whatever idiocy of the day - is cheap.
mircea_popescu: first explanation i ever heard that fits the observable data and doesn't require active malice.
mircea_popescu: or otherwise, an underpaid public worker. like you know, a schoolteacher.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller an asshole ?
mircea_popescu: bounce "idiots seldom differ" is apparently a natural law, not merely a clever theorem.
thestringpuller: who other than a nice person would sacrifice their sanity to try an educate lemmings for a paycheck?
thestringpuller: oh hanbot ? on the bitcointalk forums
bounce: let's lobby the UN!
mircea_popescu: the current masquerade is not unlike that famous monkey
mircea_popescu: i miss the old days when us people were still living in africa where they belong and they fought "climate change" by digging holes in their labia.
mircea_popescu: or else the entire us would be coated in fluoride
mircea_popescu: chetty fortunately for all of us, the sulphur lobby ain't got money,
chetty: <dub> one of the proposed climate hacks is block out the sun with sulfur// I think Iceland is taking care of that
mircea_popescu: but as a great man once said, "it is forbidden to teach nonsense. but the study of nonsense, that's scholarship"
MolokoDesk: economics as a persuasive force is intriguing. the way the statistical distribution of ideology follows various market forces.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather discuss actually self-aware religions than bizarre cults that claim they're not.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk as to your what happens : he becomes a stakeholder. there's a nice little fable re the nsa stash in the logs relating to this.
mircea_popescu: the future of any group of people is not certain, but nor does it matter so much,.
MolokoDesk: there's a notion called non-entailment. it describes the non-predictability of evolving systems that lose backward-linked information as they evolve and for which there are a large number of adjacent states for which the fitness landscape is unknown or unknowable.
mircea_popescu: the perceived world is an epiphenomenon of bitcoin
kakobrekla: sun is "trying to survive". < remember the matrix clouds
mircea_popescu: yeah but various implications flow from there.
MolokoDesk: well. cryptography is a mathematical fact.
bounce: check their home page
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk the thing is, bitcoin isn't trying to make friends.
MolokoDesk: right now bitcoin has a spendability problem, along with the disincentive to spend created by the expectation of deflation.
MolokoDesk: if the only people who care about developing bitcoin are stakeholders, then having more stakeholders means more development and more likelihood that bitcoin in particular and decentralized cryptocurrencies in general will be around in the desired form in the long run.
MolokoDesk: well, increasing the number of stakeholders would make sense.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk among other things bitcoin is not very friendly to the fiat world model of work for hire. it very heavily favours the linux style of doing things.
MolokoDesk: ok. I'm pretty much out then I think.
MolokoDesk: there's kind of an odd hybrid type of open source made by companies like Rackspace. they give the stuff away for free because it generates enormous amounts of work for them.
mircea_popescu: <MolokoDesk> or for whom you do it. << well, yes, plenty of idiots manage to cosy up with the clueless and live decently in the process. not rly my cup of tea, but th world's full of tims and andreases.
MolokoDesk: linux has a lot of ancillary work it creates by people versed in the field and who know it's internals or can modify it. So the people working on it are contributing to it because besides being generallly useful and having the political influence it does, they make a lot of money on it.
mircea_popescu: which is why things like linux can exist in the first placew.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk retainers are useful where work is abundant and workers scarce. this is not the case in coding,
MolokoDesk: can I make the btc equivalent purchasing power of USD $1200 per month doing this?
mircea_popescu: heck, there's not so many ugly women in btc. which makes one think... what if there's more to hotness than usually thought ?
MolokoDesk: ok, guess, we should talk about what adding a payment option to this and maintaining the bot long term are worth in terms of comp.
dub: or, idk im out of the loop
dub: mircea_popescu: I thought they were teh same person
bounce: for the blogposts. what else?
MolokoDesk: ok. I'm not sure the entire content of my conversations during 'recruiting' were relayed. I usually take and advance or progress payment on staring a project, and the rest of the comp on delivery to satisfaction of the person who wanted the work. There's no way I could have done this for the initial payment.
mircea_popescu: bounce still there, but i don't think many popl call.
bounce: on that note, how's the bitcoin f0ne going?
mircea_popescu: dub how about the chick that got paid to secretary.
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol what's that to do tho ? i mean, this is merely how to index things on the site.
mircea_popescu: dub don't forget all the trolls i pay to bother random anons that forgot to take their pills on random forums nobody reads.
RagnarDanneskjol: one part of the conversation on how deed coins are to be spent/lost: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#815529 ..there was some more specific discussion i cannot locate
dub: i was thinking mpif ops, but yeah, sticking shit up your ass is another earner
mircea_popescu: people are getting paid to flash their tits, what're you talkin' aboot.
mircea_popescu: and it's still there.
dub reserve the right to be entirely wrong
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk people in bitcoin are as a rule filthy rich, which means they do whatever the fuck they feel like doing, which is why coming up with things that are actually worth doing is so important and getting people to adhere to trhe highest standards so easy.
MolokoDesk: (oops. missed mp, who is the person I should talk with this about)
mats_cd03: fun fact: the Bluetooth Low Energy spec has three key exchange mechanisms. 2/3 "do not provide any passive eavesdropping protection" (as per spec).
MolokoDesk: (we've never really discussed the intent of compensation for work here. It matters to me because I have to make a living, so I have to be able to bill at US-livable rates. I'm not sure how people work in #bitcoin-assets... it may be that everyone is developing "for free" because they are stakeholders in keeping the exchange going so they can use it, or the utility value of contributiing is worth it, or they're used to doing
bounce: of course, assets.com is squatted. wonder what they'll ask for it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the state in my head is that th bundle gets hashed into a pubkey which is where dust is sent.
RagnarDanneskjol: we discussed this at one point and determined this was the best approach - as alternative to millibtc to be recovered from a multitude of pregenerated addresses
mircea_popescu: mkay gotta grill the guy tomorrow about it.
punkman: (by random I mean based on the bundle hash)
punkman: it picks a random bitcoin address instead of generating the private key for one
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk: I should block that. << i wouldn't worry about vandals at the application level. if they do it they may get devoiced which is enough deterrent.
punkman: turns out deedbot burns the coins
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell MolokoDesk aite once you wake up, kako's going to set you up with a deeds.bitcoin-assets.com zone and a server login. an wipe the test bundles when you do it too.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: an wipe the test bundles when you do it too.
kakobrekla: you want some b-a.com a record for the deed thing
assbot: Tactical Chat: How the U.S. Military Uses IRC to Wage War | Public Intelligence
bounce: needs a bit of a crew, some buy-in from a few groups, and so on, to get the thing started
mircea_popescu: fucktards. they fail to list "we suck to the degree we will die of self imposed attrition. we don't even talk to people wh owant to give us free servers anymore"
mircea_popescu: "freenode group registration is currently suspended, as the group registration process became significantly backlogged to the point that it was not viable to continue taking new registrations. This is an unfortunate side-effect of the combination of the following"
mircea_popescu: o they don't do that anymore ?
teward: mircea_popescu: unless #bitcoin-assets is its own Group Registration, it falls in the #bitcoin* namespace
bounce: for freenode, whoever has access to the backend and can fix it if it goes amok
bounce: only after icahn badgered them to do it for months
mircea_popescu: bounce omidyar has figured out paypal / website payments are dead in the water, selling it while he's ahead of the curve.
mircea_popescu: $90 buys you an hour's work of a professional. their articles are 15 minute jobs by 3rd worlders. 9 bux is a gross exaggeration.
mircea_popescu: punkman like hell they do.
bounce: s/combines/spits out/ (from the combination, etc.)
bounce: now I wonder, if you provide an oracle that combines a programmatically generated key from (secret) seed and (public) user number, would that be enough to recover the secret?
nanotube: mircea_popescu: re db queries - depends on frequency of gribble queries. if you'd be querying gribble more than once per 15 min, get the db.
bounce: then you have an arbitrary cookie and might as well use separate payment addresses
mircea_popescu: bounce actually hashing isn't even the right approach, should serialize.
MolokoDesk: 10k transactions. oh. each user has a unique 4-digits always the same. their "account number" sure.
MolokoDesk: there are only 10000 of those.
mircea_popescu: they don't choise it.
MolokoDesk: uh, what chance of two people randomly choosing the same 4-digit deposit suffix?
mircea_popescu: all ingredients for a secure system are there.
MolokoDesk: ok. with two audit trails that should be bulletproof, if it's all done in this channel the published channel logs are a matter of record. the payment extension also keeps an audit trail and a database.
mircea_popescu: hardened systems means among other things breaking the convenient assumptions of the enemy.
mircea_popescu: maybe someone wants to donate to them.
MolokoDesk: "oh gosh, that guy revealed the check digits of his paymet.. I'm going to make a payment to the same person for no reason with THE SAME LAST DIGITS!" = not likely to be motivated by anything.
mircea_popescu: people can use it whatever way they please.
mircea_popescu: one doesn't presume anything. this is how the system works.
mircea_popescu: no need for any of that. you just use a hash of their userid to generate a 4 digit pin, and credit to their acct all deposits to your address that have that pin for last 4 digits.
MolokoDesk: they send you a microchange digit set and you confirm on that.
mircea_popescu: then if you get 1.00001944 you credit it to me.
MolokoDesk: so they just say "that wallet was mine"?
MolokoDesk: right. how does one put money into the account in one's nick.
MolokoDesk: ok. so they don't need to register a wallet ID with WoT?
MolokoDesk: random payments from unregistered wallets would sit in an account with no owner until someone registered them, but that's not a sound practice.
MolokoDesk: ok, for the payment system, it would create accounts based on wallet of origin of incoming payments. those would be the same wallets registered in web of trust/gribble, I presume.
RagnarDanneskjol: MolokoDesk - pls see msg in other chan
MolokoDesk: just realized that Tao_Jones has a "joke" payment system in it called luzcoin it's not a real coin, it just keeps accounts for people in one IRC channel elsewhere and they mess about with it rhetorically. it has a mining back end that increments the accounts in a sporadic lottery.
bounce: so much for "leveraging the synergy"
bounce: well, how can it be if I get called to explain the joke?
bounce: heroku and google apps both, "for the resiliency"
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk give the thing a day to think through.
MolokoDesk: well, I can write the payments extension but deciding where to run it may be a different issue.
mircea_popescu: don't even get me started on the topic of wordpress lmao. fucktards put a ddos hole in their xmlrpc
bounce: this isn't usually a problem among the, let's call them "usenet crowd". people who're reasonably good at discussing more than one thing per email and are technically minded so don't take it too personally when asked to answer a technical question.
MolokoDesk: for example I deleted wordpress from this VM. I don't use it and didn't even want it there.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk these days, security mostly relies on not updating to the newest set of bugs.
mircea_popescu: bounce the motherfucking answer! is the reason face to face productivity is better, btw. as expensive travel is, sometimes it's unavoidable, as people will mousy over emails for a year if given the chance
MolokoDesk: yeah, I think that was a symptom of long-term interests in other things.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk if you're wondering, the entire line was prompted by <MolokoDesk> ok. I'll look into this. I'm not a security guy and linux admin is not something I do regularly
bounce can't get recruiters, hr peeps, or even first line support idjits to f'n answer their emails.
mircea_popescu: jesus gotta make if-then clauses.
mircea_popescu: mkay. if you're under 30 stfu and learn some unix admining, it can't hurt you. if over 30 you probably have a point focusing on other things.
mircea_popescu: because i am trying to determine whether telling you to stfu and learn some unix admining is a good policy or not
mircea_popescu: more interested in the under part.
MolokoDesk: nuff said then.
MolokoDesk: put people with high profiles on their boards of directors that do nothing but waive attending the annual meeting.
MolokoDesk: anyway, I know how startups are. they do anything to make their "forward-looking statements" remain plausible for as long as possible.
bounce: it's called "best current practice" and the industry is full of it.
MolokoDesk: but then Mark Karpeles was in that too.
MolokoDesk: yeah, he's kind of verbal intervention and keynote speaker. Not sure what his early role in bitcoin is. I think he may have been in the first round bitcoin foundation group.
mircea_popescu: cause "it's their car"
mircea_popescu: guy's a mascota, talking muppethead.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is it "his"
MolokoDesk: I know you've noticed the criticism A.Andropoulos has been getting.
mircea_popescu: you're taking a sizeable bite here, if you manage to run all this for a while and not get hacked you'll have all the cred you could possibly want
MolokoDesk: if people are comfortable with the size of their deposits at risk, and the risk level that's doable.