thickasthieves: i'm trying to figure out the current total btc swaps out on bfxdata.com
Apocalyptic: <cazalla> [10:38:13] 150k + coins traded yet bitcoin days destroyed has not budged // may be explained by the fact that it's almost all shorts if you're referring to bitfinex
The20YearIRCloud: err wait, not the l39
The20YearIRCloud: I saw one that sold for something along the lines of $250k in full military gear
The20YearIRCloud: mthreat - they're not expensive birds
mthreat: ben_vulpes: I had assumed the l-39 went for around $1M, but they actually go for $175k up to $500k depending on avionics, refurbishing, etc
ben_vulpes: grepping logs for the link in question will illuminate much
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user themediator: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=themediator | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=themediator | Rated since: never
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust themediator
ben_vulpes: but this pauper's gotta think smaller, like a 47: http://www.the47.com/
ben_vulpes: mthreat: i creamed myself over the l39
asciilifeform: the semiconductor folks could decide to produce non-braindamaged circuits also at any time.
decimation: the vegetable analogy is incomplete - the 'vegetable' could get up and walk, or at least move its fingers, at any time
decimation: inevitably there's going to be some usg 'dept of c-machine hygiene'
decimation: I've been reading derpage in the media about how much money amazon & google make of the wintel/linux stack and how little they obviously look at the details of what they are building
asciilifeform: what kind of bell must be rung to wake the dead?
decimation: asciilifeform: what kind of bell must be rung to convince people that 'reviewing' the monstrous pile of C code (on the C-machine) modern software uses is not just difficult - it's impossible
asciilifeform: also lecture concerned specifically the 'swat team'
decimation: I suspect a majority of engineers working in the us feed their families on this business model
decimation: that little bot seems more useful than a 0.50 cal rifle to a policeman. ideally, one could use it to 'scout' to see if "worst case swat team" is really required, rather than joe the constable
decimation: baltimore isn't exactly known for its quality governance . watch "The Wire" if you wanna know the details
mircea_popescu: says more about the guy.
decimation: there is something poetic about a prisoner literally impregnating the state's authority personified, and it says something about usg & friends
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate tavon 3 nigga's got the moves.
mircea_popescu: going by the tattooing
mircea_popescu: so basically they were slavegirls
decimation: of course only maryland can explain why they hire women to guard hardened gangsters
dub: sorry. a lot less, they take a break from earnign essentially nothing to go an earn an apparently desirable $50k
gribble: The Man Who Wasn't There | Science Careers: <http://sciencecareers.sciencemag.org/career_magazine/previous_issues/articles/2009_02_13/caredit.a0900021>; Excalibur Medieval Tournament & Market Faire - Arcata, CA ...: <https://www.facebook.com/pages/Excalibur-Medieval-Tournament-Market-Faire/218781258159764>; Five Keys to Marketing a New Soccer Tournament | The PTM Blog: (1 more message)
decimation: dub: piloting is an interesting chumpatron. most pilots earn peanuts, but they all hope to fly for the 'major' airlines and earn $300k per year
mircea_popescu: AMONG THE VICTOMS: Eighteen-year-old Christopher Robinson (pictured) was killed in 2008 by thugs in "The Program", a brutal heiarchy which victomizes youths at Rikers Island including an imnate who was hospitalized for a broken jaw."
dub: someone instructing others in teh use of aircraft earns $50k?
joecool: decimation: NJ has had that since the 80's, just took delivery of 5 new helicopters in the past year or two
decimation: yeah this is a good point. I rent now and I'm reluctant to get back into the real estate bezzle world
dub: these wage numbers are terrifying
asciilifeform: decimation: these don't really get rolled into rent effectively, so i don't much care
mircea_popescu: decimation you don;'t really have to own property to live there tho, do you ?
decimation: asciilifeform: I considered living in pg county once - until I realized how high the local property tax rates were
mircea_popescu: dub the argument is that if you spend ten grand on an omlette when your entire weekly budged is 6k, people coming in to derp about how "so you don't want to eat" get a pie to the face.
decimation: dub: I was implying that other localities get by with civilian pilots
asciilifeform: dub: the chopper (not in photo) does not evacuate, it was a kind of flying version of ordinary police car
decimation: when I was living in maryland it struck me as very odd about how powerful the local counties were
decimation: maryland was/is the only state that had a fully government owned/operated medivac system
decimation: asciilifeform: human-piloted or otherwise?
asciilifeform: according to the lecturer - can stay aloft for a whole 2 hours!
asciilifeform: there was also a chopper, several $mil, according to its keeper. fitted with 100k ir camera.
decimation: I doubt any political figure in the dc area is going to allow someone to fire a small cannon at a criminal
decimation: for the purposes of police, it would seem much more practical to use 'stop strips'
mircea_popescu: and blowing up the cylinders does not ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik they are forbidden to shoot at the tires - it results in an out-of-control spin, demolishes unrelated cars
mircea_popescu: afaik the ballistic car stopers is shooting the tires. which can be done with a bb gun really
decimation: you need to fill out the right forms and have someone with a note from Stalin give you leave
mircea_popescu: so wait, you stop the car coming at you ?
asciilifeform: (a round through the radiator, most practically)
asciilifeform: policeman helpfully explained, that it was decreed that they must have a few in order to stop cars...
decimation: asciilifeform: one wonders why the police need a .50 cal rifle
mircea_popescu: o wait this is the ni-chromium thing nm
asciilifeform: precious little cu in there
mircea_popescu: nah, copper compounds aren't tolerated well by the skin.
asciilifeform recommends inconel - theoretically good for a millenium or three in salt water
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes lifetime slavegirls have little use for leather collars.
decimation: re: usg officials with 'immunity' : http://www.buzzfeed.com/aramroston/exclusive-family-business-at-the-national-security-agency
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (more in that vein: are the tax authorities permitted to harass them, as if they were mortals? or need permission first.) << usg employees are notoriously immune to "mistakes" on their filings.
ben_vulpes: <ninjashogun> jurov, hi. I'm actually a startup founder << oh look, i pin the tail on the recruiter donkey and the original spamgun shows up in an effort to lend credence to the notion that they're seperate entities
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: there's a market for single-piece metal collars? aren't the leather ones flexible by design?
ben_vulpes: sometimes one just sees weird marks on the finished pieces - typically, one programs in a light finishing cut with a sharp tool to keep qa "engineers" from failing the piece on visual inspection.
ben_vulpes: i'd expect you to not be cutting so deep on a single pass (if your tooling even supported it) (due to apparently having a working understanding of machining limitations), which implies some crazy connection between out of true-ness of the workpiece maybe?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can't say as i know why your cutoff tool's doing that to the piece. the mark looks like an overheating of either workpiece or cutting tool, but the geometry indicates that it was spiraling in on a single pass.
decimation: ah well this would be the place. I suggest reading the logs at log.bitcoin-assets.com if you are curious
decimation: !up justanotheruser
bounce: so instead of electing two people essentially on how much money they spend on campaigning then have them wheel in an administration full of cronies and toadies and campaigners and contributors and whoever else they could drag out of their regular watering holes, how about... picking a bunch of randoms out of a big pile of candidates and telling them to sort it out on pain of... oh, a suitably large bond put up, up front?
xanthyos: karlpilkington: there is no universe, only galactic corporations
mircea_popescu: osama took care of the people that could have sorted it out, back in 2001.
decimation: Mike Silva: And when I realized that nobody had any idea how to respond to that, I went into the bathroom and threw up. Because I realized this is it, it’s just this small group of people, and right now at this moment we have no clue. I never want to get close to that moment again"
decimation: asciilifeform: in the beginning the 'boss' says this about his tenure on the staff of Tim Geithner during the 2008 'crisis':"
asciilifeform: how much does that particular bureaucracy actually make decisions, in whatever sense, and how much just provides 'institutionalizing spraypaint' for decisions made by actual human somewhere in the loop ?
decimation: generally those that 'start in the fed' are going to be given 'make-work' jobs anyway, because it is known that their use was delivering usg decisions, not having skills
decimation: mircea_popescu: well it is likely the case that the goldman people are the 'betters' of the usg employees in many ways
decimation: well, I suspect the 'right people' (ie friends and family of the SES crowd) meet the criteria
decimation: ah, well that happened after the above Mr. Silva fired the latina with moxie: "In the statement the Fed sent us last week, they say, quote, “The decision to terminate Ms. Segarra’s employment with the New York Fed was based entirely on performance grounds, not because she raised concerns as a member of an examination team about any institution.” In the spring, a judge threw Carmen’s suit out saying the law Carmen sued the Fed
asciilifeform: (more in that vein: are the tax authorities permitted to harass them, as if they were mortals? or need permission first.)
asciilifeform: do 'civil forfeiture' actions ever succeed against them? or magicked away ?
asciilifeform: observation was not about weight they might carry in their domain, but in ordinary life
decimation: at any rate, I doubt that these fed employees carry much weight anyway, because someone in goldman can make a phone call to their boss's boss's boss and work out whatever deal needs to be made
decimation: asciilifeform: The traditional method of 'cashing out' is to take a job with the regulator's target after a few years to establish bona fides
asciilifeform suspects that, as with soviet bureaucrats, salary is only small part of the compensation package.
decimation: agreed, but it's not like one needs substantial evidence to imagine that usg employees are derpy bureaucrats who kowtow to people who make literally 10x their salary
mircea_popescu: this is not something the plebs can do.
decimation: well, since it is fed policy to keep all meetings with banks secret, I guess only a few know the reality
mircea_popescu: not so unlike trying to audit the activity of diplomats.
mircea_popescu: anyone with even a modicum of experience in the field can tell you that this sort of "sheperded proof" is pretty much useless.
decimation: Jake Bernstein: That’s everything he says on the topic in this meeting."
decimation: Later in the meeting with Goldman, here's his "poking to make them nervous": "Mike Silva Just to button up one point. I know the term sheet called for a notice to your regulator. The original term sheet also called for expression of non-objection, sounds like that dropped out at some point, or...?
decimation: thennervous."
decimation: "Mike Silva: My own personal thinking right now is that we’re looking at a transaction that’s legal but shady. I want to put a big shot across their bow on that. Poking at it, maybe we find something even shadier than we already know. So let’s poke at this thing, let’s poke at it with our usual poker faces, you know. I’d like these guys to come away from this meeting confused as to what we think about it. I want to keep
decimation: One episode - her boss "Mike Silva" was about to go to a meeting where Goldman was going to buy the shady assets of a Spanish bank - and it required the Fed's "no objection" "And one of the things that caught Carmen’s eye was a short paragraph that the banks had written into the agreement. It said that Goldman had to notify the Fed about the Santander deal and obtain a quote,“no objection.""
asciilifeform (re: tapes) immediately shrugs, 'the goodstuff, if any, must've been snipped, ...' etc.
decimation: she released 'secret tapes' of her conversations with other fed employees & goldman
mircea_popescu: hey, at least they're regulating bitcoin. because that's a safe move :D
mats_cd03: asciilifeform: ah well, see it as a perk of the faith people have in your ability to deliver.
mircea_popescu: so basically, private manning of the nyfed ?
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=moxie | Moxie (mok'see)n. Something or someone posessing the attribute of "coolness" or having "balls." The next word most likely to be stolen by Paris Hilton and then ...
assbot: The Secret Recordings of Carmen Segarra | This American Life
decimation: amusing http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/536/the-secret-recordings-of-carmen-segarra << some derpy latina with moxy joins the fed, is assigned to goldman, and is shocked to discover that the fed is composed of spineless twerps
asciilifeform actually recalls some sf universe with religion involving lathes, but can't put finger on precisely where
asciilifeform: i can even stuff the whole thing in a gif.
mircea_popescu: well once asciilifeform is done building his own city over there...
mats_cd03: so when will there be preorders for a cardano?
mircea_popescu: definitely, the format for "texts" is video x.x
jurov: <ninjashogun> we don't have to discuss that. But you have to realize that the files aren't considered private/secret, if the usage case includes signing at public computers
mircea_popescu: "But the file size is so high. Anyway to reduce the file size without compramising quality. My video file mostly contains texts " << idiot on stack exchange.
mircea_popescu: if not ima just ul the 86s thing as is.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://64.85.171.71/lathe.mov
mircea_popescu: you don't really calculate it, is the problem.
kakobrekla: not even the published mkt cap
kakobrekla: <thickasthieves> <+The20YearIRCloud> how do you calculate coin demand jurov /// price
mircea_popescu: let's call it... "a facultative idea" or whatever the fuck it was.
mircea_popescu: "so give me 50k and i might buy iron nails which might be worth more in the future"
mircea_popescu: contorted fucking reasoning, such as, "mp said once that the endgame for bitcoin is this. now, let's maintain that figure but pretend like mp wasn't talking about btc, but about geese. so then a goose should be 300k usd per, and since it's not, clearly iron nails are taking up some of that market"
The20YearIRCloud: So it's assumed there's a 100% adpotion rate
thickasthieves: <+The20YearIRCloud> how do you calculate coin demand jurov /// price
mircea_popescu: because a buncha fuctarded kids derping are "the demand" now
xanthyos: all tissues are called "kleenex." all cola is called "coke." all photocopies are called "xerox." btc WON the cryto branding game
mircea_popescu: we've sunk to the lows where kako trolls the channel. i know of no other place where the actual chan owner trolls the chan
jurov: aww y'all are so demeaning to these serious altbusinesses
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, Oh, uh (wink) right. You are right that there are no other crypto currencies besides btc, I will grant this to you. It is ridiculous to assume any other crypto currency can ever come into existence.
mircea_popescu: now that we're settled on most of these topics, did you have anything meaningful to say ?
mircea_popescu: and you do not have understanding, theoretical or otherwise, on any topic, and specifically no good such understanding.
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, "no other cryptocurrencies exist", um?
jurov: how did you calculate the demand?
mircea_popescu: no "other cryptocurrencies" exist.
ninjashogun: What I mean is that long-term, if BTC held a monopoly on crypto currency my price target would be $300K per bitcoin. (Simply because that is required for the amount of crypto currency the world has a money supply demand.) But the problem is that other crypto currencies can meet some of this demand. So, is that some of the reason for the decline? If it is, what will cause the rebound?
The20YearIRCloud: guess i don't understand how a large-ish business that takes BTC and runs into the asme cashout problems as us could operate with it
The20YearIRCloud: I just hate the equity loss being that bad
xanthyos: my psychic premonition about 360 $/btc being the absolute glass floor were not true
thickasthieves: ninjashogun, I will allow the price to start going up again tomorrow
kakobrekla: <The20YearIRCloud> we've lost something like $75k-$100k over the past year and a half due to volatility and the inability to cash out our deposits quickly < handy excuse
ninjashogun: Incidentally if it is on-topic here I am curious about the opinion of people here about 1) cause of BTC price depression 2) whether BTC price will rebound. Where will the buy pressure come from, given that there are other crypto currencies as well?
mircea_popescu: i intend to gif-ify it to test the saffron chick's thing.
jurov: The20YearIRCloud, do it rapeghost way: pay dividends
The20YearIRCloud: we've lost something like $75k-$100k over the past year and a half due to volatility and the inability to cash out our deposits quickly
kakobrekla: delete the wallet
ninjashogun: jurov, hi. I'm actually a startup founder, not a security expert per se (besides a good theoretical understanding and some practical reading same as avialable to everyone here.) Not an xorg expert!
ninjashogun: Thanks. Does someone who has gribble with the proper distance want to trust me to whatever extent is required for an up. Ascii has complained about the volume of contribution, so I will keep it down. (obvoiusly you can remove this rating if you find I'm abusive.)
mircea_popescu: specifically the kbd issue
jurov: just the toolkits are
mircea_popescu: course i have nfi why xorg was made so windowsy in the first place.
mircea_popescu: some it or other.
mircea_popescu: so here's a random idea. x.org and pretty much every implementation of a gui on linux does a pisspoor job of hiding kbd from any running program. ie, you can trivially read keystrokes typed in any window from any other window. on the other hand js stuff like .which and .keycode allows a website to read the kbd pretty well.
assbot: Shaft collar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: ^ he has an adult lathe i think
mircea_popescu: this is kinda an idea... maybe we should open a line of hand machined slave collars and other items
assbot: Logged on 02-10-2014 13:44:16; assbot: Making vacuum rotor ('Sherline' micro-lathe) - YouTube
asciilifeform: shot the pics wad here
asciilifeform: i haven't, surprisingly, received any hate mail re: the lameness; must assume it's going to mircea_popescu's dev/null
thickasthieves: i dont do insurance, but maybe there are aspects that can be your fault
thickasthieves: and theyre like uh no fuck this
jurov: they are trolls. i fully expect, if my washmachine causes a flood, them to ask if it has a microcontroller
mircea_popescu: otherwise, it should conceivably be 5% more expensive.
thickasthieves: i was thinking not very hard about whether the fact that it costs 5% to get money into btce is actually a sound reason for BTCUSD to be 5% cheaper there
thickasthieves: i didnt see the 300 bet
mircea_popescu: this is the fucking competition lmao. free modelling for art!!1
kakobrekla: so thickasthieves did you start pasting the 300 bet around yet?
mircea_popescu: and then you bought 30k's worth and it was back to 1200 ?
GodHatesFigs: $6; $335 - it's all the same :)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: The politics of Bitcoin pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell DanielKrawisz http://trilema.com/2012/the-politics-of-bitcoin/ << this 2012 article, of course.
mircea_popescu: circle synthetic equivalent.
hatchmo: you have to provide a credit card TheNewDeal
hatchmo: you can buy instantly on coinbase TheNewDeal
TheNewDeal: they deliver 5 business days after, which basically turns into an option priced in at 1% above current price, 4 days out
thickasthieves: coinbase is at least getting their 1%
dignork: hatchmo: their sell/buy rates are equal?
hatchmo: because of the lack of direct transaction fees?
thickasthieves: back to the caves i say!
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me that the web2.0 replacement of / with ÷ is one of the most idiotic things ever done
thickasthieves: too many of the wrong people had coins
mircea_popescu: for all you know this one had ten pounds of gold coins burried in the back yard.
The20YearIRCloud: Quite possibly, however from my standpoint there wasn't anything special with it. Heck there's a home right next to it for sale they could of got for less with the same features
mircea_popescu: i imagine all over egypt/albania/kyrgiztan/whatever, in all sorts of small rural hamlets with a single internet lifeline, all sorts of adolescent boys are pretending like they got the millionz of btc
thickasthieves: i think they do 10:1 margin
thickasthieves: they dont list okcoin
mircea_popescu: o wait, i forgot, the wash trading sort of huge. a trillion just as long as it's done in 100 increments. nm me.
gribble: Bitstamp | A market order to buy 12000 bitcoins right now would take 5392647.4421 USD and would take the last price up to 596.8700 USD, resulting in an average price of 449.3873 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0393 seconds
mircea_popescu: so yeah, if it goes too low for too long they'll be dropping like flies
mircea_popescu: definiotely most of the midrange and plenty of the larger mining outfits have just about zero contingency and financial planning in place
Dimsler: i think at 250 theres going to a miner bust out
Dimsler: whens the next reward halving again?
Dimsler: in the end its nothingness
Dimsler: maybe thats the premise for humanity
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: punkman: there goes my 350 bet <<< aw shucks!
mircea_popescu: so the practical choice is either "how you doing" "Great! and you ?" "also great" "oh, great!" or else the midnight oil.
mircea_popescu: like currently, working for the usg is a positive value. you get health insurance, a salary, etc.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it's been known to happen. that's the textbook definition of dekulakization btw : make an asset go negative value in the open market.
assbot: The Presidental Erection (Higo Blog)
ben_vulpes boggles at the notion of negatively priced btc
TheNewDeal: I don't believe the price of bitcoin can go negative, alas I'm not an economics expert
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no you will owe the internet dollars when this is all done
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> kakobrekla you can lket coffee grinds sit in alcohol then add sugar, just like anything else. << o fuck the things i learn here
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal liquor is made quite simply : triple alcohol (198 proof or w/e) added to X item of your choice, let sit for a few months. then cut it.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla you can lket coffee grinds sit in alcohol then add sugar, just like anything else.
TheNewDeal: The tobacco was merely a joke
TheNewDeal: Is there a specific flavor that's preferred - i.e. brandy?
kakobrekla: dunno what is your point, but if you want to kill yourself or just want a ruined coffee, there are better ways
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal not afaik. seems a us marketing invention.
thickasthieves: dimsler rides the line between enjoyable conversation and troll
mircea_popescu: but as a total aside : the quality of your arguments exceeds the quality of your expression, significantly. that means you're smarter than you're read, which is unfortunate. you definitely should read up on and master all that "preppy 101 vocabulary", it's not the waste of time inept pseudo-teachers and pretend-authorities have made it seem.
TheNewDeal: just curious - is it a common practice in any part of the world to brew coffee with snuff?
Dimsler: listen don't spin me the arguement here with preppy 101 vocubulary and euphamisms
mircea_popescu: because if he had been working in a purpose-theory approach, he would have been.
mircea_popescu: it's just that THEY do get to control your priors. you do not,
mircea_popescu: this is false. you have no better access than the students of cause-theory, for very good thermodynamic reasons.
mircea_popescu: the way this promise goes is, "if you limit yourself to purpose-theory, you will have privileged access to ultimate effect"
Dimsler: quantitive money theory fails on any systems its been tried on
Dimsler: mircea_popescu, the ultimate implications are going to stifle any form of adoption
thickasthieves: my main problem with arguments is when they proclaim ideals or extremes are achievable for more than a moment
mircea_popescu: it's not that. i don't care about the man's memory or anything. im trying to explain a fundamental difference in approach.
mircea_popescu: he proceeded from basic principle. and he, and a lot of other people, couldn't give less of a shit as to what the ultimate implications are.
mircea_popescu: ok. so then. satoshi didn't proceed towards this goal or that goal, as presumed by this or that purpose-built theory of economics.
Dimsler: but the logic isn't very sound in many of th eposted economic studies
Dimsler: they are good reads
Dimsler: lol i enjoy the abstract
thickasthieves: dimsler mp is abstract but thats like half the joy of reading
mircea_popescu: you at all familiar with the ancient art of hermeneutics, Dimsler ?
mircea_popescu: you're trying to apply the acting towards a purpose approach, because that's all they teach anymore.
mircea_popescu: looky here. all this would make a lot more sense to you if you read the trilema explanation as to the difference of acting from a cause from acting towards a purpose.
thickasthieves: at least panic sellers will still have their ETH
Dimsler: he fucking read murray rothbard and applied his idiotic quantitive theory of money