asciilifeform: (where the milling - invention of sir newton... is.)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hollow coins in real life fool no one if examined individually - given the way they are made, the ruse is quite obvious when seen from the edge.
asciilifeform: i.e. it would cost usg more to actively remove penny, nickel, dime, from circulation, than anyone stands to gain thereby.
asciilifeform: given the fate of usd, the small coins continue to circulate largely through inertia of neglect.
BingoBoingo: Very, but few offer the depth a nickle does.
asciilifeform: hollowed coins, as pointed out in the article, are old hat.
BingoBoingo: But seriously is there any justification for the current design of the US nickle other than as a thing to hollow?
BingoBoingo: DOSbait https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2088279700/the-egg-if-you-care-about-it-then-egg-it
assbot: Logged on 23-06-2014 05:29:19; cazalla: little to contribute, much to learn - how does that sit with others who have come to that realisation here?
ThickAsThieves: but they sure like fucking me
cazalla: asciilifeform, who knows, i'm just saying if i could write a bot, i'd be doing other things, i cannot so i write news, nothing wrong with that
jurov: <ThickAsThieves> like when mpex is down, we can still trade << this was actually my intention with the receipts. but it isn't worth it
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I was just imagining RSS done right over the radio.
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Who's to say there won't at some point be a "numbers station" that broadcasts Qntra?
ThickAsThieves: my concern is that they won't sync
ThickAsThieves: lol mike_c I appreciate the work, but i'm not sure it covers my concern
asciilifeform: not, contrary to popular belief, the same as an ordinary lie.
asciilifeform: no idea what it's called there
asciilifeform: hangout is what an organized leak (of genuine info or otherwise) is called in the english world.
asciilifeform: various sec flaws being 'hangout' leaks is a hypothesis compatible with their continued active exploitation by their authors (usg)
assbot: Logged on 15-10-2014 14:34:08; mats_cd03: they could be used for remote exploitation, e.g. non-browser, non-document things
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: the answer. http://www.btcalpha.com/blog/2014/how-much-is-a-share-of-sqntr-worth/
asciilifeform: ^ everyone is probably familiar with the turds apple's os drops on fat32 file systems when writing
assbot: Bob and Alice Discover a Mac OPSEC Issue - F-Secure Weblog : News from the Lab
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 15-10-2014 21:29:19; mats_cd03: on the subject of reproducing this bitfetch thing
fluffypony: if there are any -asseters that are in Los Angeleeez, Las Vegas, or near-ish Utah, the wife and I will be in LA from Oct 28th to Nov 2nd, and then Utah/Las Vegas from Nov 2nd to Nov 17th
ThickAsThieves: i cant help othe than to say, ask pankkake
mats_cd03: currently residing in the US so thats a concern for me
mats_cd03: where should i host the front- and back-end so i dont get vanned
mats_cd03: on the subject of reproducing this bitfetch thing
assbot: HBO is finally going to let you watch its shows without cable | The Verge
ThickAsThieves: http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/15/6982049/hbo-go-will-offer-standalone-subscription-2015
asciilifeform: except, i think, he wanted to use money as the filter.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: picture a future net where something akin to wot is baked into the basic routing mechanism. so, a billion derps can make a request and there will be no transmission back until all the actual people get what they came for. etc.
asciilifeform: but the fact of ddos still being a thing at all, reveals catastrophically broken design at large.
asciilifeform: or generally, the era when 'proof of work' meant anti-ddos schemes?
ThickAsThieves: it's the inclusive search tool
mircea_popescu: trying to pad the numbers!
mircea_popescu: and i bet you 90% of those are actually correct uses of the term, as opposed to the common derpage.
jurov: were there any threats?
asciilifeform: jurov: better in the sense that there was a contemporary translation that is still largely readable to modern germans without an archaeological bent.
asciilifeform: afaik, they have it even better.
xanthyos: sorry the sentence fragment "*was* resolved between now and..." caused a temporal causality grammar glitch
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nothing like the exercise in archaeology that reading in the original is for modern en speakers.
HelpPlease: Not sure, the bet was resolved sometime between now and yesterday.
mircea_popescu: and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death. << "there but for blind luck goes I", just because you're here today doesn't mean another just like you didn't die yesterday, or the day before.
mircea_popescu: To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow, creeps in this petty pace from day to day to the last syllable of recorded time, << roughly equivalent to "life is what happens while we were waiting for other things"
mircea_popescu: there would have been a time for such a word. << It's not like this was the only opportunity for her to die and she had to take it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, let's work it then.
jurov: yes. still very different from understanding the text as is
mircea_popescu: you could entertain yourself indefinitely just following the yakking.
mircea_popescu: they had more then than you have now for crying out loud. for one thing, the street was fun
mike_c: i still haven't identified the secret message.
mircea_popescu: no other passtime ?! you kidding me ?
jurov: no other pastime?
mircea_popescu: no, they went to the theatre like you come here. because it's new and cool and it speaks to you and you can afford to.
mircea_popescu: this wasn't a time when theatre was ancient and respected.
mircea_popescu: jurov why would they ?
asciilifeform: the one that matters.
asciilifeform: (or train to take over a father's bezzlatron)
jurov: *like they
jurov: i doubt most people actually understood it. went to the theatre like it went to church (when everything was in latin)
mircea_popescu: this was read, over screams and bellows, in a crummy theatre, and people fucking understood it ?!
mircea_popescu: what the fuck does that even say ?
mircea_popescu: creeps in this petty pace from day to day to the last syllable of recorded time, and all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle! "
mircea_popescu: bounce incidentally, since you quoth macbeth. "She should have died hereafter; there would have been a time for such a word. To-morrow, and to-morrow, and to-morrow,
jurov: devthedev refresh till it works
mircea_popescu: devthedev what's keeping you ?!
asciilifeform: devthedev: wait it's dead again?
asciilifeform: the latest piece.
asciilifeform still puzzled on how adding a trilema post to qntra fixes the broken concept of 'news.' but perhaps is simply not the target audience ?
mircea_popescu: except the most common form of congenital malformation is fixed with ties.
asciilifeform: i get the point, yes
mircea_popescu: not that widely, it's recent and still experimental therapy afaik
mircea_popescu: the drainage sometimes actually works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform fun fact : rabies doesn't kill per se. current therapy consists of essentially freezing the brain while the virus is flushed out by the immune system
asciilifeform: may well be that this is like draining the hydrocephalic's skull to turn him into a normal man
mircea_popescu: their times were run like i describe.
mircea_popescu: the most we have to go on is that while the recent aberrations produced neither of those,
mircea_popescu: works just fine. you start with women in their 20s, self selected. you beat and humiliate them into shape. five to ten years later, people emerge of this.
asciilifeform: and other modern nuances.
asciilifeform: experimentally verified << ahaha, but does it work with Sr-90 in the atmosphere.
asciilifeform: and who even said we need more and more. just that there be some.
asciilifeform: we don't really know how to make 'more and more' actual people. to figure it out, would have to rewind to when they were mostly exterminated and go from there.
penguirker: New blog post: http://qntra.net/2014/10/after-defeating-it-in-the-bitcoin-market-la-serenissima-bleeds-the-usg-all-over-the-dow/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform one has to have a whole lotta things. literacy is a good start, of course. the actual kind.
asciilifeform: africa had no soviets << vanishing the thieves and dekulakizers is not enough, one has to actually... produce wealth
asciilifeform: 'literacy' as understood by extant managerial civilization (usa, friends, imitators) is simply the ability to fill out forms and perform other simple mechanics of the giant meat computer of bureaucracy.
jurov: but s.qntr shares would outlive the stars or such
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, africa had no soviets, it was and will remain in the shitter.
mircea_popescu: romania was in the shitter in 1984, and has more gold per capita than most states today. all it too k was getting rid of the soviets.
mircea_popescu: comparing modern day idiocy in africa with the white areas of 1800 ios nonsense
bounce: I think you're a bit spoiled here; try and compare reddit derpage and tardery with the complete inability to even follow the simplest instructions when they're paid to do exactly that in places with real modern day rampant illiteracy
jurov: i propose using s.qntra shares as payment for trilema credits, upon which they are irreversibly destroyed
assbot: The CrowHouse
mircea_popescu: bounce http://www.thecrowhouse.com/8th_test.html << there. are you literate per the 8th grade standards ?
mircea_popescu: reddit is the temple of this bizarre sect, the large collection of people who can use letters but don't understand sentences.
mircea_popescu: they can convincingly pretend like they can read. but in point of fact, they can not and do not.
bounce: meaning that fully half the people couldn't read in the 1700s, where it's now closer to just about all of them who can read.
assbot: Many Eyes : Percentage of Literacy in the 1600's-1700's
bounce: http://www-958.ibm.com/software/analytics/manyeyes/datasets/percentage-of-literacy-in-the-1600/versions/3
bounce: emergence of a middle class was a bit of a giveaway. increased life expectancy, better literacy all-around, lots of little stuff. life got a lot shinier for a great many people, to the point of bringing a great many more people in the world.
mircea_popescu: another child, not healthy. inside his cranial cavity, slightly more water.
bounce: currently I think the effect is a bit midway. much larger bulk of apes, lower relative yield of persons despite much better all around education(!), still a net absolute plus, but in a sense a disappointing one
mircea_popescu: no matter how you bang on it, the shit chip won't suddenly start dropping magic packets.
mircea_popescu: so in short : there's not going to be external solutions to internal problems
asciilifeform: this occasionally happens (nixon?) - then muppet is replaced with an otherwise-identical spare, who has not yet eaten the public kitten fillet.
mircea_popescu: to quote the teflon don speaking to sam giancanna, "all they got is a tape. let 'em play it 'till they're sick of it"
bounce: it's not impossible, even if hard to see being as it is that same emergent property. so the point is not to discount it too easily.
asciilifeform: perhaps. given as i'm not even sure there's a game
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but you've just moved the goalpost ?
mircea_popescu: bounce in the same spirit (of statistics) : the average bacterium makes no penicillin
asciilifeform: in reality, you have to patch into satellite and show him eating the kitten on prime time tv. for a week straight. to have even small effect.
mircea_popescu: bounce that's a dubious theory. i don't credit it so much.
asciilifeform: yes, in the popular imagination, 'exposing' something is as simple as printing a few words.
bounce: could well be an emergent property of our social limits, mind. like how the human social intelect can deal with ~150 "friends"
asciilifeform: unless you - personally - planted a video bug in the toilet stall where ebama fucks his interns, and brags to them about zapping the white man with obola.
mircea_popescu: see, the distance between bounce's theory and asciilifeform's practice is that in theory there's a lot of things that aren't actually fouind in practice ?
mircea_popescu: so then... no news ?
mircea_popescu: then who ? who are those numerous people that make news ?
bounce: around the sec? quite possibly nobody.
mircea_popescu: so if not her, then who ?
bounce: the sec is more or less a puppet anyway; look into the commentary around the flash crash, esp. the nanex guys
asciilifeform: airborne in the sense of, if you want to stand next to the patient and live, wear a suit appropriate for bathing in sarin.
bounce: apparently "senior counsel" doesn't mean "chief dealmaker". so she's in a position that sounds important but is essentially toothless when it's not about bullying random other parties into filling in a bunch of forms. this phenomenon isn't exactly new.
mircea_popescu: which is why and how the entire "don't sneeze on people" thing was introduced.
asciilifeform: read the one page and think about the arse-mouth gymnastics the buggers are going through to avoid saying 'yep, it's airborne'
asciilifeform: to the extent that today's 'news' are worth paying attention to, it is to write the history of mass lies.
mircea_popescu: lacks the authority to make a deal in her purported field of expertise
mircea_popescu: today, someone who has the unmitigated audacity to misrepresent herself as "senior" SEC counsel
bounce: what this does to relative and absolute importance depends on your viewpoint as much as plenty other factors
mircea_popescu: and a few millions lawyers, doctors, journalists and other liberal professions,
mircea_popescu: bounce but hear the contrarian view. in 1814, there were about 1k actual scientists in the world, ie, people making their own moral judgements, as independent agents
bounce: the essential part seems to be how many shaved apes can become people, ie can become truly important. and this may or may not be limited within a sphere of influence, but there too we've managed to specialise, and multiple spheres are now more feasible.
BingoBoingo wonders why the focus on news exclusively as announcement of what happens now and not as the record historians dig through.
mircea_popescu: i mean... i can see either side of it. wtf to do now.
mircea_popescu: this bounce-asciilifeform debate will probably live in the annals.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, nice, yet to grow them although i've considered it
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Two years ago the bumper crop was brussel sprouts, produced into January
asciilifeform: no more people today than in 1700. fewer. more shaved apes - yes, there are.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, i didn't get any last year, we had hail proceeded by a 5 day heat wave, that was the end of them
asciilifeform: see the tomatoes example.
asciilifeform: bounce: there're a lot more of those around than there were in 1700 << no. there aren't.
bounce: leaving aside "acts of nature", news is created by the doings of people. there're a lot more of those around than there were in 1700. if you assume only the top N most important bits are important, then that number stays constant. if you assume the top N% is important, then the absolute number of newsworthy things would likely adjust with the headcount
BingoBoingo: The tomatoes in the garden here are still fucking producing. It nearly frosted 3 weeks ago, but they won't stop this year.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to follow that model. qntra isn't a seller of 0-dioxin, 1814-equivalent tomatoes, but a greengrocer where they don't hire retards and don't mix shit in the fruit sala.d
cazalla: thickasthieves, because then the discussion will turn to how the logo can be improved and i'll end up focusing on that instead of content
asciilifeform: i'm not certain that an article per day of actually interesting matter happens in the world. at least, not where a reporter can get to it.
asciilifeform: another observation re: qntra. recall mircea_popescu's point about synthetic tomatoes?
mircea_popescu: so it's one of those "while you're away at boot camp your wife is sucking snails out of the lesbian couple next door" ?
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Anzac | Anzac. 1. A soldier from Australia or New Zealand. Originally referred only to Gallipoli campaigners, (the Australian and New Zealand Army Corps), then to all ...
cazalla: mircea_popescu: cazalla can you explain that 4plebs img thing ? i dun have the context. <<< ANZACs go off to fight for the country, ya know, cis gendered men who promote the patriarchy, meanwhile all the leftys move in to Melbourne, meh wtf do i know anyway
mircea_popescu: so yeah, s.qntr is only slightly better than the blue chip fiat company.
asciilifeform: i was very unsure re: this hypothesis prior to qntra
peterl: thickasthieves: hopefully investors are smart enough to read the listing and understand what is going on
asciilifeform: in some 'unconventional' models of physics, they exist.
asciilifeform: mass news and derp are inseparable in my head. perhaps one can have one without the other, but that's not unlike a unipolar magnet.
thickasthieves: well think of this conversation as informing to potential investors that this isnt really an investment to expect gains from, other than knowing your favorite news source will continue to exist
asciilifeform realized that he simply regards william randolph hearst's basic invention (mass news) as fundamentally pernicious, and not something that 'good folks can do right because they're good and hearst is evil'
peterl: already there are some bids up for S.QNTR, some people are being generous to the authors, some not so much
mats_cd03: it sounds like mp has implicitly agreed to be the hearst/murdoch of qntra
peterl: but anybody can see the inflation coming, so the whole market will discount the share price as appriate to compensate between "profit now" and "profit later"
peterl: so the price might be really low, but it will still be some positive number
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves the newspaper business isn't really for poor people ya know.
thickasthieves: the curves can easily be unfavorable
thickasthieves: wouldnt it require a drastic amount of money though, the more time passes and shares are created?
cazalla: punkman: just dusted off ancient juicer, still works http://i.imgur.com/eFs13T0.jpg <<< i've got a juicepresso, fkn thing is great after drinking the previous night
peterl: so people will be buying shares to get a part of the income
peterl: but eventually the paper might make money
peterl: at first, the people buying shares of S.QNTR will be donating to authors
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user TheBroker has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate TheBroker 1 Broker.
gribble: Nick 'TheBroker', with hostmask 'TheBroker!bec3cce4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.195.204.228', is identified as user 'TheBroker', with GPG key id 2AB7FCD6D06C6433, key fingerprint A8B4D8D11C5F71DA8D3059E02AB7FCD6D06C6433, and bitcoin address None
mircea_popescu: ;;ident TheBroker
peterl: hi, I think you misunderstood the conclusion of my article
thickasthieves: mp i admittedely didnt put my all into the headline
mike_c: another section of the paper that isn't news: classifieds! put the otc order book out of bizness and makes shareholders happy.
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves bad title tho. i got better titles than blogger, and the big thing there is the dow manipulation
thickasthieves: if i wrote an article saying that mp wrote the article, thats news :)
mircea_popescu: mike_c wow i hadn't either.
gribble: Registration successful. You are now authenticated for user TheBroker with key 2AB7FCD6D06C6433
thickasthieves: also could look at it from the feeds point of you
thickasthieves: possibly, the only ways for qntra shares to go up in value would be divs becoming great, or somehow closing the loop by having a way to 'spend' shares.. but at that point all you did was make an altcoin
cazalla: mike_c, we've been adding categories as we go so they will expand over time, not that fussed on tags though tbh
thickasthieves: its never good for market buyers either
thickasthieves: i just cant sort why owning shares and holding them will ever be good
thickasthieves: which by then shares are very diluted for everyone but 3 founders
thickasthieves: so while qntra has the least income, and needs the most from few (as in it's founders will work for equity only at start) it's founders and groundfloor employees get the most equity
cazalla: yes, we can earn from the pool as well
BingoBoingo: <thickasthieves> maybe i'll submit an article about the problem with qntra share dist model << Qntra shares embody MP view of wealth as % of math rather than number ot tokens
asciilifeform: qntra reads just like ordinary newspaper! 'company c now selling turd t.' 'company s having supply chain problems with their shit.' 'politician p derps on topic t.'
mircea_popescu: TheBroker put that text blob in gpg to decode it
cazalla: mircea_popescu, yes but a little reminiscent of when the stooge is told to give a check to the tangiers lol he does as he is told
thickasthieves: maybe i'll submit an article about the problem with qntra share dist model
mircea_popescu: this is the stuff that blogs are made for.
asciilifeform: or one where a fellow who owns some big iron (several hundred cpu, perhaps) walks the blockchain every day in search of strange
thickasthieves: lol every article should say how many shares it made at the bottom
asciilifeform: 'It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an inspiration to future authors.'
mircea_popescu: bounce my idea was to make it contrary forces. so the wordcount should result like the stuff in colorado, a splendor.
bounce: first it's got to steal your attention, then it's got to keep it, then it's gotta fill the article, then it's got to pad the wordcount
asciilifeform: that's everybody's main gripe, but leaves certain things in the shadows
mircea_popescu: ah there you go!
gribble: start [bitcoin assets wiki]: <http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/>; Bitcoin fund launches - Futures: <http://www.futuresmag.com/2014/09/22/bitcoin-fund-launches>; Hedge Fund GABI Makes First Bitcoin Purchase via DigitalBTC - The ...: <http://www.thebtcsociety.com/headlines/hedge-fund-gabi-makes-first-bitcoin-purchase-via-digitalbtc>
gribble: Request successful for user TheBroker, hostmask TheBroker!bec3cce4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.190.195.204.228. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/2AB7FCD6D06C6433
asciilifeform: true newsman, imho, actually goes places and lifts facts from the earth, not cut&paste.
TheBroker: ;;gpg eregister TheBroker 2AB7FCD6D06C6433
mircea_popescu: !up TheBroker
Apocalyptic: <mike_c> if you want to know all the stupid shit that is hapenning, not told to you by idiots, read qntra. // that's probably the best definition of what it does
mircea_popescu: i think mike substantially has it, tbh. that's pretty much the mission.
mike_c: if you want to know all the stupid shit that is hapenning, not told to you by idiots, read qntra.
mircea_popescu: probably out of the ba chickdom.
asciilifeform: example of -interesting- and genuine news - mp's piece. but he can't cough up the actual intel to substantiate the piece, that would aid the enemy.
mike_c: the lawsky title was a bit silly for my taste, but the content was useful to me. i'm glad i read what happenned.
asciilifeform: rather than execution
thickasthieves: the b-a culture and btc culture is leaking
asciilifeform: 'the fall of moolah.io'. 'lawsky stays lulzy.' 'butterfly turds something-or-other.' etc
asciilifeform: thickasthieves: imho folks who think 'hate shitnews, gonna make my own nyt and forbes, with hookers & blackjack' are missing some of the problem
mircea_popescu: thickasthieves wel no, this is the sort of shit that happens. one day cazalla was minding his own fucking business. suddenly, it's "make a news site!" then the next week it's ddosed to hel, and then the next week it's "here's an artikcle from mp, everyone in chan wants to make a call, it's on your head. make a decision"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's the thing, i couldn't possibly write one and have it be any more 'on subject' than yours above!
asciilifeform: and the smell comes through
asciilifeform confesses that he isn't terribly fond of the qntra articles to date. nothing against the folks who wrote them! but because the entire 'bitcoin news' sphere - not only reportage, but the subject matter per se - is permeated with spam oil.
mircea_popescu: bounce lol i think im good either way, not about to starve if they reject my contribution :D
bounce: you're rooting for the tin foil hats that speculate you'll get paid to not write for qntra?