BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think you wrote on geek wanting to be gifted a woman in his closet who doesn't need for anything. Dependopotamus trope is the inverse of that.
mircea_popescu: (now say undeservedly both and get in the bash)
mircea_popescu: undata it's not even clear if the author wants her to stay or to go.
undata: mircea_popescu: this is the insecurity of many men, that if they can't keep their woman, it must be the wretched whore's fault.
mircea_popescu: sure, the female can be seen as a preditor. in that it ingests and keeps the sperm, sure.
mircea_popescu: "While dimwitted, the Dependopotamus is a shrewd beast who knows that there is one surefire way to trap a man: Bear as many of his offspring as possible. Since having a baby in the military is free thanks to the dependency benefits, shell be in a constant state of hosting and developing new fetuses that she isnt certain are from her husband or one of her many lovers."
mircea_popescu: omfg i finished the logs.
Adlai recalls a calculation in Collapse that egyptian pharoes had at their disposal approximately the same level of manpower as a single piece of modern construction equipment (eg bulldozer)
BingoBoingo: Man uses homo sapiens, ethics is the discussion of acceptable uses
mircea_popescu: seeing how for same most of the history man was the engine, it's technically using women as fuel.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you're on a... slippery slope, so to speak. for most of history women were merely used to make more of them.
Adlai: though i'm misusing the term intentionally, my misuse is well-defined
decimation: cooking someone in your stomach is different than cooking them in your car?
Adlai: no, not according to the current dictionary definition of cannibalism
BingoBoingo: Adlai: It isn't cannibalism if you merely plan to take them to the rendering plant for fuel and not the abbatoir for meat
mircea_popescu: but anyway, at issue was the misuse of "societies" to mean "groups", not of cannibalism.
assbot: Logged on 07-10-2014 18:16:29; nubbins`: ;;google the net sandra bullock
mircea_popescu: Adlai this was discussed in the logs :D
BingoBoingo: Adlai: You only think that because you're still looking at the rabbit hole and not harvesting the coneys therin
mircea_popescu: these considerations are important, i can't be immitated by merely taking pictures.
mircea_popescu: Adlai this is true. but when i redefine terms i always do it with a solid backing of thought behind it, and my redefinitions are actually cognitively stronger than the current convention.
Adlai: mircea_popescu: oh come on, your blog is full of metaphors that shock the average netizen encountering it for the first time
Adlai: mircea_popescu: why misuse the term << the term is misused to shock the audience, a technique you seem to enjoy yourself...
Adlai: the relationship is quite similar to that of an agricultural society herding cattle
undata: mircea_popescu: oh, and florida is in the american south.
decimation: Adlai: it certainly is the case that the 'upscale (blue)' class in the us takes advantage of the labor & genius of the 'smart unaligned rednecks'
Adlai is using "societies" to refer to other classes within and without anglophonia
Adlai: well that's a nice crackocy, but i'm talking about the fact that upscale anglophonia lives off the sweat of other societies
asciilifeform: who argued, almost convincingly, that cannibalism shaped all of human history (e.g., fire was discovered to fight the cannibal half of humanity, who then morphed into sc4mz0rs or the like)
undata: mircea_popescu: I see your point; my parents have a farm in rural PA. It would take about three weeks for the more dangerous (meth-addled) neighbors to be quiet.
mircea_popescu: as a result, when the flock went over a cliff... romania was still way behind.
asciilifeform: Adlai would be pleased to read the works of soviet academician Porshnev
mircea_popescu: their alleged ignorance is merely unallignment. not being alligned with the idiocy that just failed is a bonus.
decimation: rally the wagons, fuck you to outsiders, plenty of resources, not a crushing population density
mircea_popescu: undata nah, new york and california will be the shitholes.
mircea_popescu: i have my doubts, having been there.
Adlai: well, i doubt the US would let its capitol be ruled by local cartels, but they might be a capital of an independant state
mircea_popescu: decimation which, you'll notice, is exactly how the roman empire went.
decimation: asciilifeform: indeed. there are powerful incentives for local col. x to 'defect' and become the warlord of kansas or whatever
mircea_popescu: Adlai detroit is stable as is. in fact if it does collapse, detroit will be the new capital.
Adlai: +BingoBoingo | I hear 2nd Lt's exist simply to make NCO's lifes miserable // true in the idf too
mircea_popescu: undata why the south preferentially ?
decimation: agreed. and private Y. is going to be mulling these things over when he and his friends are getting killed over some vague pro-climate change agenda or whatever
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: The more I read on Argentina, the more it seems like what the US said it was going to be
undata: there is a wide swath of the south that could easily start eating each other should the walmarts run dry
decimation: but right now the federal government means nothing but taxation and disorder to the majority of the populace
mircea_popescu: basically, the great federal project failed, the national project never succeeded, what's left is a sort of us of africa.
asciilifeform: just like the drool of a drooling retard is an effect
undata: and don't they long for it?
asciilifeform: it was why i linked them.
BingoBoingo: Allegedly policical speech makes the evening newscast with alleged attribution
mircea_popescu: once the young sluts radicalise it's the end. which is why the teenaged runaway chgicks are so important.
undata: "the dissolution of shared meaning" << this is a wonderful description of what's at work here
mircea_popescu: how is this then to be leadership ? because tradition-tradition ? mkay. only goes so far.
mircea_popescu: if you recall, back when the us functioned people went to see wtf jefferson said as their evening's entertainment
mircea_popescu: but the fact that the average person is not fascinated by congressional proceedings, let alone comprehend them at all, is a serious warning sign.
mircea_popescu: and it does really not matter what sort of an ass the rabi is privately.
mircea_popescu: the fundamental function of the rabi (which is what stalin was, practically, at the massive outskirts) is not going away.
decimation: right, I envison something like revolutionary france where the king is derping around paris and all of the peasants suddenly decide not to pay their taxes or heed property rights
mircea_popescu: but in the sense of, this feat where random high functrioning idiots like the kent guy quoted earier suddenly buy the common delusion of "global warming" becomes impossible.
mircea_popescu: a lot to signify, and rapidly deteriorating common language. not in the sense of english,
decimation: right, and the question is: is col x. with his own local agenda going to provide meaning or is gen y. in far away disaster-land?
mircea_popescu: because unmeaning phenomena are very bothersome to simple folk.
mircea_popescu: the main thing is that this de facto promises that every phenomenon carries meaning.
decimation: although I think there were various times when it applied to technical experts
mircea_popescu: this is a subtle concept. like the platonic notion of cosmos, an ordered universe.
mircea_popescu: undata ^ there you go. he didn't say anything about oligarchs. he just promised order.
assbot: Logged on 15-06-2014 17:24:22; asciilifeform: phun phact. russian truck drivers had portraits of stalin in their windshields (facing out.) possibly even now.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform wher's the one where you discuss people driving a truck with the man's pic ? because he makes order ?
decimation: asciilifeform: no they still make you go through 'officer canidate school' which is boot camp lite
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i bet you the 20 year sergeants are pretty fucking happy with that o.O
decimation: asciilifeform: of course, they would pay you a bonus which you are generally required to spend on a ford mustang
mircea_popescu: undata: some guy comes along and pledges to slap our oligarchs around; after a bit economic collapse they'd eat that shit up <<< this is some massively funny shit.
decimation: with no actual military experience other than officer boot camp
decimation: 2nd lt is the eqiv. of 'officer private'
ben_vulpes: how am i supposed to read all these lines i didn't write?!
decimation: mircea_popescu: this is regularlly the case in us mil
mircea_popescu: generally the hussies flock to the businessmen rather than the warlords. at least from what i've directly observed.
ben_vulpes: why do dependopotamuses have sex in the water?
gribble: Terminal Lance #56 “Myths and Legends II: The Dependapotamus”: <http://terminallance.com/2010/08/06/terminal-lance-56-myths-and-legends-ii-the-dependapotamus/>; Sunday Funny: the Dependopatamus | Kit Up!: <http://kitup.military.com/2012/01/sunday-funny-dependopatamus.html>; overview for magress - Reddit: <http://www.reddit.com/user/magress>
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: just a picture read from the faces of actual living specimens i saw alive
decimation: my point is that col. x is much more likely to appoint himself 'mayor of dallas' and send a polite 'fuck you' to the remaining chain of command
asciilifeform: tomorrow - the spiderwebs clear away. no dogs
asciilifeform: today - col. x won't blow away wh because he has an imaginary retirement with hunting dogs and cocksuckresses living in the spiderwebby recesses of his balding skull.
asciilifeform: basic point - what keeps col. x from turning his division on the white house, for shits & giggles?
mircea_popescu: because if you don't charge might as well shave, oil up and go to the harem.
mircea_popescu: no, i tell you, it'll be "colonel X of Y promised major Z of K delivery of m then reneged. who the fuck does he think he is ? charge!"
mircea_popescu: sure. so they do today. business as usual.
asciilifeform: or think they need
asciilifeform: many places will get things they don't strictly need.
decimation: my point is simply that there's no way the us military would be effective against its own people, it would fracture
undata: and likely operate without the freedom-loving layer of bullshit
asciilifeform: and then die
undata: mircea_popescu: I think we agree then.
asciilifeform: folks who are not 'armchair general' scholars of nato idiocy may be surprised to learn the extent to which the entire edifice was built - still is built - to 'blow its wad' against ussr in no more than a 3 week period.
mircea_popescu: yugoslav army was not 1/6 as effectual as the same god damned units, except now commanded by the war criminals.
mircea_popescu: so yeah, if washington goes or stays is irrelevant, but if the obnoxious sissy faggots currently in the general staff are all raped and hanged the army will suddenly see its mission redefined much widerly
decimation: right, randomly destroy the support for the existing 'ability' and you see rapid nonlinear fragmentation
mircea_popescu: decimation generally high efficiency is obtained at the cost of high fragility. the jit system is a fine exampel of the principle.
mircea_popescu: undata: BingoBoingo: I'll read this but to continue, the Russians sought Putin's strong voice after their collapse. << not after, honey. a decade after. that decade is important.
asciilifeform: the digital computer is a beautiful dream. good and well, but you can't dream the dream without some 'meat' to dream it with.
mircea_popescu: undata: a highly armed, extremely disciplined military doesn't just vanish because the congressmen stop coming to work << obviously not. it just starts working for me instead ?
decimation: yeah. digital circuits are not ideal 0/1 gates, they are analog computers
mircea_popescu: undata: the US military is immensely capable of holding cities <<< should be interesting to hear more of this.
mircea_popescu: undata: more like giant slave and ankle-chain << this was recently in full display in the ukraine, and then later in iraq. except both ukrainians and iraquis are, as a stock, more resilient than the us guy.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Fear the avaians, but not for their flu. They know of their McNugget futures and choose otherwise!
BingoBoingo: The latter
mircea_popescu: decimation there's a reason civilisation is built on oil.
decimation: pumping gas is the same as borrowing about 2% of a reasonable nuclear generator
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I'll be looking to grow my farm once qntra takes off << lol what a plan for the future.
asciilifeform: go find something other than chemical fuel that you can charge at 22 MW but won't discharge unexpectedly at 22 MW.
ben_vulpes: <kakobrekla> o hey our resident child rapist also keeps charts << lulzy, what's the story on this?
asciilifeform: (how long it takes to fill your car? how long, on the road, to empty it?)
asciilifeform: how many times faster the spigot pours, than your fuel pump?
decimation: no, the main issue is poor timing
asciilifeform: just, not the only.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform isn't the probability to find a metastable state roughlt linear with system energy ?
asciilifeform: but in reality, there are not only two. there may be a third, and fourth, or rubber can even bend when the ball rolls on it.
asciilifeform: what it even means. the fact that the two documented stable states of, e.g., flipflop (or even just inverter) are an abstraction.
decimation: if you were to fully extract the energy of a tank of gas going into your car at the pump, you would be getting about 22 megawatts
joecool: mircea_popescu: opposite side, very strong heat, assuming the diesel is what caught
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: no need for the 74xx to melt - enough to 'get lucky' and reach a metastable state in one or more switching elements << for pure wankeriferious interest : wouldn't supercooling it be a pill against all this ?
asciilifeform: carbeque << 'and then they summoned me / to the 'special' division / and asked 'why did you not burn up with your tank?' / to them i answered / 'in the next attack,' / 'in the next attack,' / 'i promise, i'll burn up!'
decimation: I was driving along i-95 once, saw a full carbeque in progress in the right shoulder. Three lanes over through rolled up windows the heat was uncomfortable on my face
ben_vulpes: how was the scent moving with your vehicles?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im running a sort of generational modelling thing i hacked together. this is my idea of fun.
ben_vulpes: "oh my noes i can feel my brain wilting all the way over here! a scent of gasoline! in the warehouse we rent! we're all about to keel over!"
ben_vulpes: * mircea_popescu kinda likes the smell of gasoline << various engineers went on red alert over a faint whiff of gasoline earlier today
asciilifeform: i often ask folks to contemplate, when they soak up 64g, what that number really means
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sane linuxes actually use the memory. or am i missing something ?
mircea_popescu: ahh, the beauty of 64gb memory systems is that if they allocate 46gb they still have plenty left over.
assbot: Logged on 04-01-2014 00:00:40; asciilifeform: re: 400: 'for your convenience, we have packaged the defective ones separately.'
mircea_popescu: or do they both get spanked purple and "next fucking time do one thing and do it right"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes ok, suppose the chicks ake you ojo de bife, but as an insurance policy they mix cheesekace in there.
decimation: asciilifeform: not far from you in luray, va there's a cave where some guy converted a stalactite/stalagmite gallery into an organ
ben_vulpes: boats and cars aside i think i get the "computer enforcement of human language contract"
mircea_popescu: just sign it from the beginning and be done with it.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes if you're going to do that why bother with m/n
ben_vulpes: let's try the wot.
mircea_popescu: do you suppose her mother coming to your room and saying "neither of you is to leave here until you fuck" help anything ?
ben_vulpes: i was going for the wot
mircea_popescu: you just said they're at odds.
ben_vulpes: the incentives are aligned! merchant and payment processor must agree to get anything out.
gribble: Ultimatum game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game>; What's the ultimatum game? - HowStuffWorks: <http://money.howstuffworks.com/ultimatum-game.htm>; Game Theory: The Ultimatum Game: <http://gametheory101.com/The_Ultimatum_Game.html>
ben_vulpes: okay, so my derpitude re: m/n aside, the thing has a stable solutino.
ben_vulpes: "either we agree, or nobody gets anything."
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes no, n = 2 if there's no third.
mircea_popescu: kinda why i don't think much of the entire "multisig" bullcrap.
cazalla: so how long until bitpay pulls that shit on the merchant
mircea_popescu: then it's not m of n.
ben_vulpes: what if there's no third?
mircea_popescu: which is how and why the us political system does not work.
kakobrekla: there were to be two machines connected with serial cable < heh i have such setup with a buffer on the cable
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the three man committee to split a buck ?
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda reminded of the jews on toilet joke. "is this work ?"
decimation: yeah but he also pretty much admits they are unworkable practically
asciilifeform: he lived in the last days of an age of proofs
ben_vulpes: our solution: one of the few actual uses for M/N signatures.
ben_vulpes: cazalla: i was derping with a colleague about btc payment processing recently. the topic: how to ensure the payment processor (he who tells the taco-delivery mechanism to release tacos) gets paid?
asciilifeform: 'those trombones - how are they any different from pneumatic hammers!?!?'
asciilifeform: 'why no compressor for the jazz band?'
decimation: well, quite simply because the failure rate would be too high
asciilifeform: i asked my father as a boy
asciilifeform: it is 'fits in head.' and a few other things.
asciilifeform: protocol validator in the middle << people don't seem to get this. 'secure' is not a gigantic mechanized orchestra of quis custodiet ipsos custodes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, im sure that's not the case, i never cut solid copper anythings.
mircea_popescu: the disadvantage of productivity is that it's 5am and the log is closing in on 1k lines. and yest it was nearly 3k. and jesus god it's a lot harder to go through when it's not mostly my own lines! i had no idea!
mircea_popescu: back when there weren't any enemies listening in on our lists
asciilifeform: wait this was in there?
asciilifeform: but it - is not the topic
decimation: perhaps with a protocol validator in the middle
asciilifeform: decimation: in my (now very old) plan for rewrite, there were to be two machines
decimation: asciilifeform: wouldn't it be a good idea for the privkey need not live in the same memory space as the rest of the code, for instance
asciilifeform: it is the only way.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the part that actually enables the things we like to do with the damn thing
mod6: asciilifeform: i like the idea of a cypherpunk-esq mailing list to propagate patches from a common release.
asciilifeform: the unspeakable cthonian horror that remains - why even think of it
ben_vulpes: what is the bitcoinating? the part that attaches to the network, downloads and verifies the blockchain?
asciilifeform: the one which menstruates guilade - flush it
asciilifeform: which one - the one that actually 'bitcoin'ates
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> decimation: bitcoind begs to be split into at least 3 programs << of which only 1 is necessary ! << for the record, what are the three and which the one?
ben_vulpes: there will be a base.
ben_vulpes: i think then this discussion is settled.
cazalla: maybe they meant to raise 50k facebook likes instead
cazalla: mircea_popescu, where the facebook page and mockups for that?!?
asciilifeform: comes from, as i understand, 'xml' and other pseudo-humanreadable abominations
mircea_popescu: i dunno what the hatred of ascii is from anyway.
undata: I yield the balance of my time, haha
decimation: folks are welcome to publish, index as they see fit
asciilifeform: then no longer piles of ascii.
asciilifeform: undata will feel better if we 'gzip' them?
mircea_popescu: decimation yes. but actual gentlemen, rather than presumed gentlemen.
decimation: asciilifeform: right, I envision it more as the collected correspondence of gentlemen scholars, rather than a profitable venture
mircea_popescu: whenever people's conscience is the only protection, the third reich is about to emerge.
undata: it could be a fancy db implemented atop the blockchain
ben_vulpes: or rather
asciilifeform: at any rate, the fact that no one could really directly profit (imho) from this escapade - other than devils, were they to succeed - should keep things interesting
undata: my main thrust is that the thing will have to be structured in some way (a db)
mircea_popescu: which is essential, because our enemies are putting a lot of pressure on them to break it
mircea_popescu: and this puts huge pressure on trusted nodes not to break the fucking trust
mircea_popescu: rather than papering over breakdowns of trust with "foundations" and "chief scientistdom"
undata: that fits the social happenings well
asciilifeform: if 10 sign one, but never other, and 19 (plus ninjasp4mz0r) sign the remaining - clearly schism.
asciilifeform: in practice, the only possible result
decimation: asciilifeform: the bigger question is: who is the 'registrar' of the 'official version' - or does that merely exist in the private collection of each person's note?
asciilifeform realizes that he is not very good at curing people of addiction to what feels to them as 'modernity'
asciilifeform: question is re: the canonical form.
undata: asciilifeform: I'm saying it can provide the input to your envisioned system
asciilifeform: and do all the linux contributors sign? i do not recall this being required
undata: you can extract a nice looking patch from git, and even email it from there
asciilifeform behind the times
asciilifeform: linus uses some turdolator or other
mircea_popescu: then suddenly people discover that... wait... ?!!?!?!
decimation: asciilifeform: isn't the linux kernel still done this way?
undata: mircea_popescu: I use the same for code review, even if it's a matter of emailing myself
mircea_popescu: "nobody could be bothered to do that"
asciilifeform: i was hoping to rationally convince people that the totality of the project ought to be the mailing list, the totality of the mailing list ought to consist of gpg-signed ascii text, and that this includes patch sets - which, collectively, add up to the product.
undata: that makes more sense. In that case yes, I could see a very simple tool for auditing, signing, then releasing