mircea_popescu: BLOCKCHAIN ALL THE
jurov: like, turdatron would reject the email "nope you're not on longest chain"? lmao
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: down side of collecting links - they die. aha
ben_vulpes: no stack to manage in that case; i'd prefer it if there are no obvious reasons to not.
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, fyi the link to the slides at http://www.di.ens.fr/~pnguyen/pub_BoJoNg00.htm i dead, such a shame
jurov: can't they jsut sign independently?
ben_vulpes: forgive my derpitude but why not simply sign the patch and collect sigs?
mircea_popescu: if you're not willing to sign the present signs you;'d better fork.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu, asciilifeform: re sig stack is the implication that a signs patch, b signs patch and a.sig, c patch and b.sig...
asciilifeform: define as hash(hash... 'by the neck until dead'
jurov: just cut one bit from the hash
mircea_popescu: o look, there's a M48. i had no idea.
mircea_popescu: the odds are low but present.
mircea_popescu: anyway. p and q are primes. p-1 and p-1 being necessarily even, will probably have some factors. these factors could just as well be 65537
mircea_popescu: oh i see, just the confusion tip is it.
asciilifeform: the broom - fires once. yes.
mircea_popescu: (and for that matter, it IS quite fucking possible for the current, fixed e implementation to spit out badly coded stuff every once in a blue moon, when the p q happen to be a multiple of 65537)
mircea_popescu: the idea is just for (q-1)(p-1) and e to be relatively prime
mircea_popescu: eh fuck it, usgavin promised us 100% increases each year for the next 200 years
asciilifeform: hence the obligatory whinge about new silicon
mircea_popescu: you telling me the rsa e must be a fermat prime ? why ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 65537 is not a mersenne prime either. what did i step into ?
mircea_popescu: yeah google, always put wikipedia the fucking first line, because i'm sure that's what the "algorithm" says.
gribble: Mersenne prime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mersenne_prime>; Mersenne Primes: History, Theorems and Lists - The Prime Pages: <http://primes.utm.edu/mersenne/>; Integer Lists: Mersenne Primes - TSM Resources: <http://www.tsm-resources.com/alists/mers.html>
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fixed count on bits << easy as a fart. start with the bits, then shuffle with rng transpositions.
mircea_popescu: jurov oh yeah, i wasn't commenting on your implementation, i was just bitching at the stars.
jurov: mircea_popescu: other people's signatures will be detached from definition... or do you want to include the patch everywhere?
asciilifeform: cardano, what other
asciilifeform: the 32k in me micro, that space
mircea_popescu: also doing away with the 65537 static and instead using any 64bit integer with exactly 32 on bits would be better.
mircea_popescu: myeah, the only bitch is that determinism.
mircea_popescu: i guess he delivers a copy of the above ?
mircea_popescu: so make the fucking cardano already.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the cypher itself is too short anyway
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: though it will further imperil folks who are enciphering on hardware without proper rng.
asciilifeform: don't misunderstand, i like the 'fixed fields' idea, but am also aware that shitgnome excretions in a hundred places in commonplace toolchains will silently screw with it.
mircea_popescu: anyway, thgis is more an aesthetic consideratyion. ditching symmetric cyphers is the more substantial thing, and since a reimplementation happenes, might as well add aesthetics.
mircea_popescu: why even bother with a proper init, use systemd
asciilifeform: because if not, why even bother with ascii, use gpg binary format
asciilifeform: only in so far as their crud has made its way into www browsers, etc
mircea_popescu: no, the re-pgp imp,ementation
Apocalyptic: mircea_popescu, I just found that line to fix the issue, but thank you
assbot: Logged on 16-10-2014 14:00:51; mircea_popescu: btw, cazalla bingoboingo and everyone else in the same situation : if the blob gpg spits out when you sign contains a SHA1 you are using the older, and perhaps not all that secure digest algo. you should move on to sha512 either with --digest-algo SHA512 or else edit gpg.conf to insert personal-digest-preferences SHA512 SHA384 SHA256
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: when idiot www crud or os (anywhere in the chain) starts gnawing at your line endings, or adding line noise, you blow the fixed frame
mircea_popescu: and again, armored. nothing but letters and digits in there. not even +/ etc.
asciilifeform: most folks never try 'gnawing through the leather straps,' but once you do - you learn how thick they are.
asciilifeform: see the 'broken glass' discussion earlier, also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's not the issue. just about everyone is putting ascii through some raper that mutilates unprintables (www browsers, toy operating systems, etc)
asciilifeform: aye, but then why fixed byte strings
mircea_popescu: file is defined as, 256bytes + "##### The following is signed above :"+message.
bounce: sha1 is on the way out (don't use for new stuff) but not dead yet (can keep using what you have)
Apocalyptic: by the way are SHA1 gpg-signed messages considered read ? I read somewhere one might rather use sha256 or higher, don't know if there's any merit to that claim
bounce: that's the technology equivalent of "hold my beer and watch this"
mircea_popescu: add to that a fixed-offset clearsigned thing, all of a sudden there's good reason to implement
mircea_popescu: you know, thinking about this, i think i actyally want pgp reimplemented. usgavin's speshul maths about how things improve make me realise that having a pure rsa based code rather than the current encode a symmetric chypher method is perhaps feasible.
mircea_popescu: clearsigned file, always 16kb long, after which the signed matter begins
mircea_popescu: you don't want me to drop it, do not put it in there.
asciilifeform: don't drop the stack.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: ideally, we'd have a patch and a collection of detached sigs of the plain ascii of the patch <<< detached sigs are in fact a reimplementation of the old punch cards
kakobrekla: the logs? myea.
kakobrekla: just wait for the google to parse logs
asciilifeform configurable with loopback approach << regards the whole orchestra as eminently obvious to anyone who thinks hard, and that all this can be done by the folks here without breaking a sweat
hanbot: mircea_popescu i meant of the motorized variety
mircea_popescu: Sorry, the requested URL 'http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/raw_bundles/17/171BanmCMde84Zr28Z4EsCzXw4nGZdfPaG.rbundle' caused an error:
mircea_popescu: hanbot: haha! where are the burning man btc gizmos anyway, i want a bitonkadonk << wait, i thought you... HAD ONE
mircea_popescu: then people can be really secure built from the ground up by running a coupla vms on the same machine :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: there's your mechanism, there. << gotta say the configurable with loopback approach is actually not bad
TheNewDeal: Is that the reverse of Bill and Ted with Keanu Reeves?
asciilifeform: (ru film about derpy f-student kid who goes to the past to zap historical notables so he won't have to study them)
mod6: lol, the bull is chasing newton
mircea_popescu: Monthly Uniques 747 US 1.4K Global | This site reaches over 1,169 monthly people, of which 619 (53%) are in the U.S. <<< numbers, right ? why would they need to match.
jurov: my version would be - he encounters hooker on the other end, fucks her, gets snapped back immediately
mircea_popescu: until one day he falls in love with the hooker, leaves with her. that does it.,
mircea_popescu: determined guy wants to end christianity in the present, builds time machine
mircea_popescu: i am not particularly against the past.
decimation: or maybe the Jacobins?
asciilifeform wonders if their 'warez censor' is online now
gribble: Robert Sheckley short stories bibliography - Wikipedia, the free ...: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Sheckley_short_stories_bibliography>; Notions: Unlimited - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notions:_Unlimited>; The Art of Leo and Diane Dillon: Robert Sheckley: Double Indemnity: <http://leo-and-diane-dillon.blogspot.com/2013/07/robert- (1 more message)
jurov: It is altogether probable that its effects will conflict with all currently established human conventions. << +1 for flair
mircea_popescu does not deliberately check out males he doesn't know. busting into the life of a woman is one thing, but a dude...
asciilifeform: though i'd succumb to the temptation of popping in to visit mr. tesla, possibly
mircea_popescu: and the reason .38 is better bullet to head than 45 is same
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal: but is it likely << somewhat likely yes.
mircea_popescu: how do you think they have phones ? tshirts ?
mircea_popescu: undata: and they will spend it how? << don't be silly. every place with intenret has a bitcoin trader by now.
asciilifeform: attribution is the magic word here, not trust.
kakobrekla: anyway, this signature thing does not make one trust another blindly
asciilifeform: this would be a most peculiar time for mr. s to come back from the dead.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the 64kbtc question.
mod6: need to figure out if we should add in jurov or what's happening there. then we need a pub address.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd rate him and so there we go.
Duffer1: who volunteered to contribute to the piggy ? >> do i get nifty unique reddit flair for donating?
mircea_popescu: some other people iirc.
asciilifeform: who volunteered to contribute to the piggy ?
jurov: if you unanimously decided there will be one, that is
jurov: mpd6 the statutes say nothing of treasurer and his remuneration
asciilifeform: the signed patches should provide watertight alibis for the innocent, and unquestionable smoking guns for the guilty - but a sufficiently 'pants and suspenders' approach should send a message to enemy against even trying.
jurov: btw if other people will sign a concrete patch, that prevents later diddling anyway
asciilifeform: at any rate, it seems like we're on the path to a 'patch-chain' - so no chance of authorship being permanently obscured, unless everyone somehow manages to lose his backup
asciilifeform: as per kakobrekla's stern warning some weeks ago, a full-bore approach (complete with future gallows) for shitgnomes has the flipside of needing to ensure against ending up swinging there by mistake.
mircea_popescu: so then who/what/when more like ?
jurov: i think the request was to prevent later posting of modified (and newly signed) patches by someone
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, if the jurovman only accepts inbound from lordsheep list...
asciilifeform: i'd say it would be wise to have the 'who/what' cemented in some form.
mircea_popescu: yea maybe the best approach here is staying home
jurov: and i don't see a value iin redoing the browsable archives that mailman generates
mircea_popescu: you two are fucking cute talking to each other :D
mircea_popescu: punkman nah, your cover \was blown. maybe after the operation ?
gribble: You rated user punkman on Fri May 16 09:11:15 2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Talent scout and secret agent..
mircea_popescu: so mod6 ben_vulpes, do we have a charter to go in there ?
punkman: anyone wants to keep a mirror, I'll make the thing push bundles to you
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah original spec called for keeping all the deeds, as a sort of primitive distributed backup
mircea_popescu: so now, you just gotta keep the bundle set of hashes, and if someone wants to prove his stuff was there, well, bring something that hashes to the hash ?
punkman: deeds are sha256 hashed, hash is b58encoded, b58encoded hashes of all deeds are joined with ",", that string is sha256'd again and that's the private key
mircea_popescu: holy shit that Mikayla chick is in the wot now ?!
punkman: it hashes bundles in two stages, so you don't have to keep the full bundle around
mircea_popescu: splendid. anything it doesn't do of the spec ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: laugh, but in usa there are folks who mod that rifle to take belt.
asciilifeform: there are even tricks to turn some extant models into a usable 'microscope.'
asciilifeform: the mats (originally solid aluminum?) had reflective strips, a la road paint
asciilifeform: i own such a mouse, came with a prehistoric 'sun pizza box.' they have very little in common with modern optical mice - simply a pair of photodiodes and matching emitters
mircea_popescu: nah, just had an anal bead at the center
asciilifeform: rather
punkman: did the foundation charter get written?
gribble: Alcoholic mice live to drink - Futurity: <http://www.futurity.org/alcoholic-mice-live-to-drink/>; NIH develops improved mouse model of alcoholic liver disease: <http://www.nih.gov/news/health/feb2013/niaaa-28.htm>; Mouse models used for the study of alcoholic liver injury ... - Nature: <http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v8/n3/fig_tab/nprot.2013.032_T1.html>
asciilifeform: punkman: if you own a vacuum chamber - dry therein.
asciilifeform: punkman: electronics generally are to be washed with cold water, and then again with ethanol.
asciilifeform: at some point, perhaps, a major mine operator will be pwned and his crown jewels throw to the mob. then we can study live code.
asciilifeform: in the 'one hash/sec, one vote' sense
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: in the sense that 'pool administrators' determine what bitcoin even -is-
assbot: Logged on 25-10-2014 03:54:31; asciilifeform: mod6: when shitgnomes glue their crap on, they use paste with broken glass.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as it is, i venture to guess that it's been done, so far, only by folks who live and die by the result, and aren't terribly eager to share live 'weaponized' code (people such as mircea)
asciilifeform: ask them.
gribble: Nicolas Bourbaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Bourbaki>; Charles-Denis Bourbaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles-Denis_Bourbaki>; Bourbaki: A Secret Society of Mathematicians: Maurice Mashaal ...: <http://www.amazon.com/Bourbaki-A-Secret-Society-Mathematicians/dp/0821839675>
kakobrekla: is there a benefit to masking a team with a person?
asciilifeform: bourbaki hypothesis?
TheNewDeal: what about the speculation of it being more than one person? Is that not as accepted?
undata: pretty ungrateful to call the guy retarded.
undata: or the guy was just more into math than coding
assbot: Logged on 10-12-2013 00:23:47; asciilifeform: there'll be tales of 'buried' btc one day.
assbot: Logged on 10-12-2013 00:21:46; asciilifeform: buried goodies tend to result from folks who got clobbered before they could dig them up.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: recall the 'buried treasure' discussion?
assbot: Logged on 21-10-2014 00:38:07; *: asciilifeform addresses the worms who people his future grave 'eh boys, you'll be lighting benjies with lit benjies'
asciilifeform: jurov: afaik, that junk is only ever sold if owner died or 'needs the money'
asciilifeform: i dare to hypothesise an inevitable, 'zoological' enmity between folks who own, e.g., picasso canvas, (and understand why they own it!) - and bitcoin.
asciilifeform: threadbare flock, butterball priests, as often is the case
asciilifeform: if theyre krugmanites, they have no wealth to speak of << don't conflate the priests and their flock
bounce: is she trying to get out of the top dog position?
asciilifeform: undata: 'clitler' is the next annointed fuhrer. afaik this has been settled.
asciilifeform: i did specify that the pedigreed canvases and pcbs signed by steve jobs are analogous to bitcoin, rather than, say, gold - because, on account of gold being to some degree accessible to plebes, elaborate measures are taken to depress its price - no such equivalent for the picassos.
TheNewDeal: bunch of economics majors that just graduates from the university
asciilifeform: these folks have, like any elite, vast personal wealth (also an ocean of bezzle, yes)
asciilifeform: that's for the plebes, bred to be eaten
asciilifeform: i just love how the krugman shitgnomes prattle on about the need for physical 'use-value' in currencies and then go on to bid on apple-1 pcbs and jackson pollack paintings
asciilifeform: who was it who had the essay re: how rich folks use auctionable rarities as a kind of 'bitcoin' but with higher overhead costs ?
asciilifeform: well, theft, and robbery.
asciilifeform: jurov: perhaps i should not have said 'mining' specifically. idea here is that once the buggers give up trying to destroy bitcoin, they will transition to employing any and all tools at their disposal - for robbery.
punkman: so if someone wants to do some independent verification, hash "BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ" with sha256, convert to big int, make Bitcoin private key with big int, verify the key's address is 149LB8VYaT1BdMLyQUL92Kj6KrJfNwcp64.
kakobrekla: list the commands..
jurov: what i wanted to say, mining race isn't the most dangerous avenue of attack
asciilifeform is not equipped with the evidence needed to agree (or not) with 'it's mostly ok'
jurov: but we're already there
asciilifeform: but they won't.
asciilifeform: at any rate, btc mining is the 'fulda gap moment' for all of these folks. all the shitgnomery corrupting, subverting computing mechanisms of every kind - suddenly, it all had a purpose.
asciilifeform: the answer is - that it likely is. but - certain of its subjects, close to the chicken, will snatch opportunities to bolt on a new, mechanical head.
asciilifeform: incidentally, herr musk has given us, free of charge, an answer to mircea_popescu's puzzle - that of whether usg apparatus is an inevitably-harmless headless chicken.
assbot: Logged on 19-10-2014 18:39:40; asciilifeform: my hypothesis re: biometrics is, imho, the only one proposed so far that has explanatory power for the fact that idiotically lame, e.g., fingerprint readers, nevertheless are happily deployed en masse by usg
asciilifeform: no prizes for guessing the -actual- motivation.
asciilifeform: musk, mr y, some nameless folks from usg, will get together very soon and - if you're known to own a sufficiently large cluster of whateverthefuck - you gotta register...
asciilifeform: the thing that will actually happen:
asciilifeform: not a problem, until they knock on yer door, and say 'what's all this. you were looking into star drives, werentcha.'
asciilifeform: let's imagine they get... interstellar shipping - banned.
asciilifeform: so far, there's been no reason for non-retarded people to care, because - we don't even have computers yet.
asciilifeform: (the folks mentioned in thing number one)
asciilifeform: the other thing happening is that the lizardmen will never pass by a good excuse to 'regulate' (ban) powerful general-purpose computers.
asciilifeform: re: elon musk: two thing happening. a fella named yudkowsky has been pushing for 'regulate ai, or it will destroy us all!' line for a little short of a decade now. with him, of course, to be the fuhrer. (see lenat discussion. he considers anyone trying to resurrect lenat's work, assuming it wasn't fraudulent - we don't actually know this - to be a dangerous criminal worthy of extermination.)
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: the author of the exe diddler was dumb enough to be spotted, too (why patch all exes, and not look for the download to be part of a realistic luser browser session? retarded)
bounce: which then causes extra rules and more bureaucrats "overseeing" the rules and whatnot. it's sort of scar tissue. about as useful, at least as much of a pain.
bounce: it causes extra ruckus in the media when invariably something does go awry and some sort of rule or other turns out to have been flaunted
kakobrekla: >Increasingly scientists think there should be some regulatory oversight maybe at the national and international level, just to make sure that we don’t do something very foolish.
bounce: next we'll learn that the collective twits twittering on twittar causes AI
assbot: Its Not Just About Security; Identity is the Great Enabler | NSTIC NOTES
bounce: http://nstic.blogs.govdelivery.com/2014/10/23/its-not-just-about-security-identity-is-the-great-enabler/
jurov: anyone looked to the eurisko stuff leaked by stan?
jurov: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/innovations/wp/2014/10/24/elon-musk-with-artificial-intelligence-we-are-summoning-the-demon/ another AI expert
kakobrekla: punkman but where is the bot ?
punkman: and the spam has begun: POST http://123.249.24.171/POST_ip_port.php => generated 797 bytes in 244 msecs (HTTP/1.0 404)
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Mikayla!~W@105.184.61.177. Trust relationship from user HeySteve to user Mikayla: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=HeySteve&dest=Mikayla | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Mikayla | Rated since: never
Adlai remembers the general details but nothing precise
Adlai: they realized that their audience in front of a few hundred students was much more valuable than their labor over a weekend
Adlai: the group that used their presentation chance the next week to advertise a local management consulting firm
Adlai: reminds me of a story where a class (probably economics, or MBAs) had to figure out how to best monetize $100 (roughly) over the course of a weekend
cazalla: given the choice.. fkn millenials i swear
Adlai: cazalla: so in the last bullet point there, the patrons are paying through promoting the establishment in social media?
Vexual: it's alrgely unknown why two large bodies attract one another
Vexual: if i've really losy my citizenship, i might just describe gravity on the way out
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask thestringpuller!~leflor@99-39-97-12.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. Trust relationship from user muXne to user thestringpuller: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=muXne&dest=thestringpuller | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=thestringpuller | Rated since: Mon Oct 15 18:46:37 2012
Vexual: ;;gettrust thestringpuller
Vexual: ;;rate 1 ben_vuples does web better than you and other stuff too
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 0, Level 2: -4 via 4 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=ninjashogun | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ninjashogun | Rated since: Thu Jun 26 19:05:58 2014
Vexual: one day i don't read the logs
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Vexual!~amnesia@gateway/tor-sasl/vexual. CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Trust relationship from user assbot to user muxne: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=muxne | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=muxne | Rated since: Sun Jun 22 00:11:14 2014
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user Vexual: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=Vexual | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Vexual | Rated since: never
mircea_popescu: better than the alternative!
bounce: re NO_SIGPIPE, the POSIX way appears to be fcntl(O_NONBLOCK)
mircea_popescu: The World Started A Day Before I Was Born (tm)
assbot: Outside in - Involvements with reality » Blog Archive » The Cult of Gnon
ben_vulpes: no wait try this one http://www.xenosystems.net/the-cult-of-gnon/
mircea_popescu: " If men own women, except that they may not resell them, cruelly mistreat them, rent them out, abandon them, nor even allow them to rent themselves out, then both men and women know who their children are and live with their children. The converse system, women owning men, would not work, because men would not know who their children were, would be denied the opportunity to invest in their children, and would theref
mircea_popescu: "Both sides of the war are better off if a cooperate/cooperate equilibrium is coercively imposed." oooo....rly ?!
mircea_popescu: "Women want to have sex with the highest status men available (as women perceive male status, which is similar to the way a small evil child raised by cannibal head hunters perceives status) and be supported by men."
mircea_popescu: the shit he links, too...
mircea_popescu: "Examining difference in fertility, it is clear that fertility is primarily controlled by female status relative to their husbands. The more women are subordinated, the higher the fertility. "
mircea_popescu: ow shit, i skimmed and misrepresented the author's bias.
assbot: Mircea Popescu Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation. The left is going - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: there, first link.
gribble: start [bitcoin assets wiki]: <http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/>; #bitcoin-assets log: <http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/>; Why the IRS Is Taxing Bitcoins as an Asset - The Motley Fool: <http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/03/26/why-the-irs-is-taxing-bitcoins-as-an-asset.aspx>
ben_vulpes: so sometimes the cock is 32mb long, but does the reference implementation accept those messages?