asciilifeform: we're paying and paying for the glass tty era, yes.
mircea_popescu: generally tho, the concept of "line" should not exist for gpg.
asciilifeform: option << which b0rks other things
jurov: <mircea_popescu> o yes it does.<< same thing as spaces in the end of lines, you did not get it
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> and you can wget and not worry about line endings << somebody's not read the log :D
punkman: it's in the manual, pretty sure
xanthyos: Sterlingcoin is The Cryptocurrency of the UK & British Isles. << didn't realize btc was geographically limited
nubbins`: how the fuck else am i gonna verify, transcribe by hand?
nubbins`: silly is not being able to verify deeds because they use retarded EOL
mike_c: it shouldn't fuck with the message at all.
mike_c: to have a list of ways the deed that deedbot is given is modified before publishing?
nubbins`: however it happened, there's \r\n
punkman: the house does have some windows though
jurov: ben_vulpes: to upload files and publish then to web
asciilifeform: eh i might have stepped in wrong thread. but even so, where does cr-lf come from if no winblows in the loop?
ben_vulpes: jurov: sorry, don't understand the question
mike_c: having deedbot muck up the message it is given seems retarded.
jurov: ben_vulpes: wanna keys from the therealbitcoin.org bucket? to publish the charter and provisional list of patches
mike_c: whether or not you trust something signed by a windows user has little to do with deedbot.
asciilifeform: this thead is about things that must not be born, regardless of how easily killed.
chetty: asciilifeform, not the most elegant way of putting it but you make a point
chetty: I like the idea you know someone is using a potential bad key because ot that problem
nubbins`: otherwise you're essentially throwing up a huge "FUCK YOU" to all of us not using winblows
asciilifeform: which one of the chairmen runs winblows? fess up
punkman: check out the one liner
punkman: base64 was there for a reason
nubbins`: otherwise how the fuck is anyone using anything other than Windows going to be able to verify deeds?
nubbins`: unless we've all suddenly decided to nominate Windows as the OS of choice, \r\n should not be within a thousand feet of this thing :D
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 11:41:26; punkman1: ;;later tell nubbins` according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 << that's because the CRLF line endings in the raw deed got converted to LF at some point in your process
asciilifeform: also, am i the only one here with a pair of shears? get snipping.
mircea_popescu: it's unsanitary. that damned key is probably how he got his asshole extended in the first place.
asciilifeform: ability to receive new transactions << and gavin should have the nuclear button for this why?
Naphex: so thats not a huge downtime, alerts get notified and keyd so email all the rest
mircea_popescu: nevertheless.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: the nodes are all synced, the only thing he turns off is the ability to receive new transactions
Naphex: you then run secondary nodes with spv to ease that data and make it more usefull
mircea_popescu: well, not in itself, but if you end up relying on it then yeah
mircea_popescu: Naphex the problem with this approach is that well, false security.
Naphex: but i do want them to shut down in many cases and prevent any integrity breaches
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to reprhrase. "what should happen, if there's a fork"
Naphex: but thats what i want for my core servers really. don't run walleting software on them
Naphex: i kept the alert system, don't have much problem with it and can easily be disabaled.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he has a point tho. what happens if there's a fork ?
asciilifeform: Naphex: keyed. -- and, you know, you can read the fscking code.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, but my fear is, how much can be trusted in the "data" of someone so fundamentally confused. can one who can't count keep a useful count of anything ?
mircea_popescu: xiando hey, help me out here, what's that ancient chinese tale of the young man who found a young woman, and they fell in love, and they wished to be alone in the world ? so they suddenly were! and then wished for a cook, and suddely a cook appeared, and then kept wishing and soon enough were back at home ?
mircea_popescu: no but seriously, groups split off at that point when carrying the food (where ? they were fucking nomadic anyway) cost as much energy as the food provided ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: strauss is a (now very old) man who was involved with some of the '70s derpistans (actual attempts at island 'nations' by american jokers). worth reading if only for zoological purposes.
mircea_popescu: is there anything actually intelligent in here or am i throwing it away ?
mircea_popescu: re the "how to start your own country" thing, the opening model is so fucking braindamaged it curls my hairs.
asciilifeform: no reason at all why a true bitcoind ought to take direct orders from the turdation...
mircea_popescu: maybe you've not met the bitcoin crowd yet ?
BingoBoingo: Naphex: Insufficient thought disorder? Maybe they hope late panic trades might be favorable to their own orders?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc. <<< used to be how mpex did ipo contracts, but it sucks.
punkman: I had it download the db backups every 6 hours
jurov: punkman, kakobrekla: how do you get all the public keys from gribble?
kakobrekla: there are log links in bash?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, and get a blob coded to the owner's key, and now we know someone tried.
mircea_popescu: oh, he means inside the lines
mircea_popescu: 14:16:06 mats_cd03: kakobrekla: links on log1.b-a direct to log.b-a, which is down << umm no they don't ?
asciilifeform: the attacker needs the key to do anything useful << unless i misunderstand, enemy can do blind replay?
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah, stat/statjson are not protected against replay. this, on the principle that the response being encoded anyway, the attacker needs the key to do anything useful.
jurov: lol 11 exlamation points.. yknow, asciilifeform is still gathering blood, sweat, bile, etc. to put into cardano software
mircea_popescu: uh you telling me gpg takes "STATJSON" and "STATJSON " as validly signed by the same signature ?
jurov: read the gpg quirks i linked, it's eye opening
jurov: in the end of STATJSON
mircea_popescu: jurov: but add aspace to clearsigned cmd, and it goes << where are you adding the space ?
mircea_popescu: if i have to pass another xmas w/o roast beast and cardano i'll paint you blue.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: against the f-students, we have pills. but it would be hasty to administer the pills as of yet.
mircea_popescu: if the shitty unit makes it to market first then the well made unit is never happening.
mircea_popescu: which is how you'll get kiled in the marketplace. if the market is 100 units, and 90 units are needed to support a well made unit, and 90 buyers could be satisfied by a shitty unit,
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: look at it. there it is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: 1) what kind of dope must one smoke to put a micro under the tin can with the analogue amp ? <<< ahahah wut.
rithm: justcoin failed to read the specs on ripple
mircea_popescu: assbot: "we show that if an adversary is able to review this cryptosystem, a simulator can be constructed which solves the halting problem"-ethereum << that made precisely no sense. wut ?!
undata: ha, love the social commentary sprinkled with courteous bdsm tips
TomServo: mircea_popescu: can't say I recall that exact scenario - but I see your point. Better not be another 950 years of this BS though!
mircea_popescu: and speaking of half the fun : was at japanese restaurant yest, discovered that the eating sticks, if unbroken, make the best nipple clamps ever. chicks love them, not strong enough to hurt, strong enough to majorly enhance sensitivity.
mircea_popescu: jurov you know, photos can be half the fun.
mircea_popescu: the us is going against a twin bottleneck, both social and technological. the us born boys of today are weak, the us tech of today is dull, no more edge. like that, it can only be a brothel.
mircea_popescu: TomServo you ever encountered that situation where you had a smaller island, but pushed tech, surrounded yourself with fortified mech infantry and railroaded all the firlds back when the idiots around still klonked each other with knights
TomServo: ahaha, yes. What's your take then, as far as timeline goes?
TomServo: mircea_popescu: orlov piece being total idiocy << the most recent guest authored piece?
mircea_popescu: jurov you gotta make that mailman thing baby, otherwise " mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others" will become a header here.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpse, others: loper-os.org/pub/bitcoin-asciilifeform.2-https_snipsnip.tar.gz
mircea_popescu: anyway, i'm shooting the guy an email
mircea_popescu: undata: ^ thoughts, criticism? << check it out, it's got the metal shield like asciilifeform's!
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski apparently the chaos people loved your blog.
mircea_popescu: next thing you know you gotta wear gloves because the socialist idots have made an endless supply of doorknob droolers.
Naphex: mircea_popescu: aye. oh well i just firewall drop them after 10 accunetix hits
mircea_popescu: so they keep suckling on doorknobs, shit like that.
mircea_popescu: there's about a quarter billion idiots kept alive against nature by various welfarist governments' welfare programs, who exist like shitworms, everything is either a food dispenser or nothing to them.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the sense that zapping dead ifdef's is not especially arduous.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu << would like to be optimistic, but we will soon see who remains motivated once the turdlathe demands actual brain cycles. right now it's target practice against paper 'opponents.'
mircea_popescu: that's the problem here, you need some experience to be able to think.
mircea_popescu: bounce i had nfi idea, at the time, and definitely would have been horrible for the role.
bounce: you shoulda been there and called up the heaven+hell agency and order the right actors for this show, eh
mircea_popescu: two legions of choir angels and a third column of succubi might have sufficed, then.
mircea_popescu: i think it's deeper than that. i doubt the job was possible at all, without an outright onslaught from metaphysics.
bounce: apparently there wasn't a people person around who could find and organise the people to cook up bitcoin; needed a lone engineer to lay the ground work.
mircea_popescu: anyway, a better demolition of the myth of "open source" and wikidiotarianism could also hardly be devised
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu << i must point out that the turd's merely been chucked onto the turdlathe. no one as of yet solved anything.
mircea_popescu: five fucking years and a horde of jackals, all because there isn't nor apparently can there be a god out there to whom you pray and who gives orders adequately.
mircea_popescu: a better example of the problem of resource allocation can never be devised.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin finally reached in 2014 the place where it would have been in 2009 had satoshi been able to find and motivate people rather than find himself desperately shooting into the public forum.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes, others: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rm_rf_upnp-asciilifeform.patch.sig << related
mircea_popescu: shit listen, i'm not yet done with the day's log, gotta read it in order or else errors.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mircea_popescu, others involved with deturdification - unless you prefer emacs for this, see tools like 'xxdiff' for illuminated patches.
asciilifeform: gotta love the cribbing f-students - 'onerng' etc.
asciilifeform: punkman: it'd be all-throughhole now if the components were actually available in that package.
asciilifeform: i expect that the truly serious folks won't even touch my hardware, but recreate it from spec...
mircea_popescu: undata plus he's on the hook to document it once it actually gets made.
mircea_popescu: !up WolfGoethe
asciilifeform: undata: the only formally published aspect so far is a set of high-res photos. but it, plus everything i have said about rng, is ten times more than enough to recreate it for a determined and impatient student.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'll do something-or-other for your foundation thing, so long as it doesn't involve actual work
punkman: 1 day and 18 hours for the first run
mircea_popescu: and how do you deal with the case where string1+siga+string2+sigb ?
mod6: <+punkman> ok, so last guy to sign must be in assbot wot << just put this in the wiki then so we'll know
punkman: maybe I'll make it display the additional signatures somehow
mod6: ok gotta run for a bit, will be back later to continue the work on getting this thing finished.
punkman: ok, so I think current deedbot implementation would only look at the last signature in multisig message. How should it work ideally?
mircea_popescu: the bitcoin reference. it's a thing.
mircea_popescu: mod6 ben_vulpes "This charter establishes the existence of a virtual organization whose mission is to maintain the Bitcoin reference client." <<< maybe strike client from there ?
mod6: Hi all, ben_vulpes and I have a new revision for the foundation charter. http://dpaste.com/16Z4M68
mircea_popescu: cazalla http://trilema.com/2012/the-bitcoin-drama-timeline/#comment-109313 << check that shit out.
TomServo: Seems the article only mentions phones and wireless.. unless I'm missing it.
asciilifeform: wired << afaik they do.
TomServo: asciilifeform: This is only for wireless clients correct? Though, why wouldn't they also do the same to wired customers?
punkman: apparently not possible unless you have all the keys
ben_vulpes: some derpy shit i've seen: recursive signing of documents. one party signs doc, another party signs clearsigned doc.
punkman: ben_vulpes: do they look any different?
Naphex: well just sign the transactions and send em to a stable node
Naphex: "Pope Francis declares evolution and Big Bang theory are right and God isn't 'a magician with a magic wand'"
jurov: ppl will select themselves for this task
jurov: imo we can apply the same process as for patches. someone in da wot makes release, ppl sign
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: do you have the time and inclination to do this?
jurov: at least in case of statjson mpex accepts the same ecrypted blob twice. so the point is moot.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i do believe that someone in the wot must read patches, yes.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: one of us must do the deed ? ... i'd just rather stand on bluematt's shoulders << wasn't talking about the auto-builder. rather, the use of brain to evaluate patches.
punkman: I wonder if there are any unencrypted commands in some pastebin somewhere
jurov: i explained it better under the trilema article where he announced it
jurov: asciilifeform: mircea wanted to add them
asciilifeform for some reason thought there were serial numbers in mpex commands
jurov: --not-dash-escaped helps with the spaces
jurov: i'm just exporing the possibilities
ben_vulpes: jurov: why bother checking body? instead maybe just check .patch.sig for l2 sig, and compare that to the file.
asciilifeform: or rather:
asciilifeform: i cannot venture to guess about the author's thought process. perhaps there wasn't one.
bounce: so you're stuck with a booster no matter what then.
bounce: sure. but the question remains, why have a booster at all? can't you run the thing off 5V directly?
kakobrekla: dont blame the arduino :)
punkman: pretty sure it's the first one
asciilifeform: onerng << there are two possible explanations for the above. one is that the author simply did not stop to think. and, well - the other explanation.
punkman: borked url there: curl -s http://deeds.bitcoin-assets.com/deed/BXZKQx2iLYyRpUCmdWCqJBvgUdvqWH4EE8TV1ns3pxLZ | grep -oP "(?<=>).+(?=</text)" | base64 -d | sha256sum
asciilifeform: 3) the asinine RF noise sampler can be switched off. but does its tuning oscillator also switch off?
asciilifeform: 2) http://moonbaseotago.com/onerng/schematic.png << vendor schematic. see bottom-right-hand, 'AP3105' switching voltage-booster. it's there because 3v is not enough to run an avalanche diode. guess how the booster works?
asciilifeform: 1) what kind of dope must one smoke to put a micro under the tin can with the analogue amp ?
jurov: that's prolly why dash escaped stuff is designed to survive the email
jurov: whoohoo: 'empty space' characters can be added to each line of cleartext, until the end of the line, without affecting the verification.
jurov: <punkman1> ;;later tell asciilifeform http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-10-2014#897500 < gpg has a –not-dash-escaped option << lol the fine manual also says "You should not send such an armored file via email because all spaces and line endings are hashed too."
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/TheBlueMatt/DiabloMiner << diablod3 wrote a miner in common lisp?
assbot: "we show that if an adversary is able to review this cryptosystem, a simulator can be constructed which solves the halting problem"-ethereum
ben_vulpes: although i have a hard time imaginging which customers of a bezzletron service would touch btc. buying a loss for the taxbooks doesn't make much sense with the blackcash.
ben_vulpes: http://www.coindesk.com/mergertech-accepts-bitcoin-startup-sales-services/ << locals 'getting in' on the game
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: i'd be thrilled to see what scripts etc he wrote and how he went about the en-test-harness-ifying of the thing
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if bluematt (who was he?) doesn't appear - one of us must do the deed ? << i have jenkins running with the blob locally, i'd just rather stand on bluematt's shoulders
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman1: ;;later tell nubbins` according to that, and to my system, mp's, etc, it's 1d834ceaf8b81bd9f53dec3f4befd06f65ee422248f2c2edaf55e825bd2228c0 << that's because the CRLF line endings in the raw deed got converted to LF at some point in your process
nubbins`: heading to work now, you may wanna check your code against these tools to verify everything
punkman1: yeah all the copy pasting, messes with line endings
punkman1: (unless that's what you did, then fuck me I gotta go check things)
punkman1: try decoding the base64 encoded deed and hashing that
punkman1: you are copying it wrong then
assbot: Logged on 28-10-2014 06:51:56; punkman: if you base58decode the deed hash, you get a sha256 hash of raw deed
Naphex: Almost all module functions depend on the basic function random(), which generates a random float uniformly in the semi-open range [0.0, 1.0). Python uses the Mersenne Twister as the core generator. It produces 53-bit precision floats and has a period of 2**19937-1. The underlying implementation in C is both fast and threadsafe. The Mersenne Twister is one of the most extensively tested random number generators in existence. However, being comple
Naphex: if it is you should read the docs :)
CheckDavid: How is the problem fixed naphex?
Naphex: which gives you the amount of available entropy bytes
Naphex: on linux kernels you have the value exported through procfs /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
Naphex: for any decent cryptography work you'd need more then 200bytes available at any time
CheckDavid: Thanks thestringpuller
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, if i understand the question
adlai: "dumb"? doesn't this just mean you can treat it as providing less entropy than the number of bits it spits out?
RagnarDanneskjol: the rf receiver noise gen is kinda cool/weird
RagnarDanneskjol: seems a not so random source - I'd guess its thermal noise is within a relatively narrow range
RagnarDanneskjol: ''Our generator makes random streams of bytes - they're generated by random quantum processes and/or thermal noise - they're don't however present a perfectly randomly distributed bit stream''
pete_dushenski: not that it was doing much tucked below the footer of 2k+ word articles.
pete_dushenski: faster loading too! at the cost of mike_c's bitbet plug-in, however
xiando: those are syntetic diamonds so it's not quite the same as with real. diamonds are big scam (what is debears corporation?) so go with those syntetic anyway if you want to waste money on that garbage
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell asciilifeform were you looking for this the other day vis-a-vis apple-1 ? http://www.contravex.com/2014/05/15/forget-cpi-inflation-is-measured-with-art/
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: listen, if smart people don't fuck whores, the poor girls are left with a very poor impression of maledom << was reminded of this as i watched the sopranos today.
Naphex: and that damn PoS just gets stuck in the proxy's and downloading 5MB/s of data/s
punkman: decimation: is there going to be a 'reset' of the state of his deed 'knapsack' over time? <- it happened a couple times during testing, hopefuly the lords will provide adequate space in the future.
cazalla: pete_dushenski, thestringpuller is on it
assbot: 0 results for 'from:adlai the GIL is good' - #bitcoin-assets search
adlai: ben_vulpes | <Adlai> the GIL is good << http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=from%3Aadlai+the+GIL+is+good pls
punkman: anyway, README on the way
mircea_popescu: so. you take the deed as is, and base58 it ?
punkman: if you base58decode the deed hash, you get a sha256 hash of raw deed
mircea_popescu: you hash the bx? how you got tht ?
punkman: just sha256 the BXZ... string
mircea_popescu: how did you get 07014e56d4c34fb7962db64e2cdf5ebcd3f8eca891a0ea697cc5f46f55d1da9d ? sha of the raw deed + a comma ?
mircea_popescu: punkman incidentally, why is "brainwallet" shoehorned in there ?
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean the world didn't start a day before i was born ?!?!!?!?!?!"
mircea_popescu: i think the one thing i can stand least about usians is not directly their ignorance, but their bald faced, undisturbedly firm conviction that being a clueless git is a-okay.
mircea_popescu: dude seriously ? "moldbug's idea of the wot" ?
mircea_popescu: if it does not, the explanation available is exactly one.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they didn't start as one. but anyway, either their cash runs out in a few months or it does not.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: incidentally, is there any alternate hypothesis re: bitpay that does not involve it being a btc intake valve for usg's 'waterfall' dumpatron?
pete_dushenski: "Arthur Levitt, the longest-serving chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, is joining the advisory boards of two bitcoin-focused companies. As an adviser to Atlanta-based BitPay, a bitcoin payment processor, and Vaurum, a Palo Alto-based bitcoin exchange for institutional investors..."
mircea_popescu: http://36.media.tumblr.com/a732d5f00de5cd0650434edcade808f9/tumblr_n8vwreF1mK1rmrwgqo1_500.jpg << the latest in french coiffure.
mircea_popescu: adam robertson shot. no idea who the chick is
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'ilsa the she-wolf' ?
BingoBoingo: The classes of bacteria intrisically unaffected by rifampicin includes many unpleasant members. It seems the biggest class though is enterobacteria... so named because they are often normal intestinal flora...
asciilifeform: if anyone has similar bet in the future,
asciilifeform read that piece, assumed this stunt was 'on a bet' or the like
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i don't suspect the guy actually acts rationally.
undata: I still question them
undata: asciilifeform: ha, the gut beer? *shudder*