mircea_popescu: peppering this sort of nonsense in the code is a prime way to ensure the rough equivalent of "atomic weapons" for future negotiations.
mircea_popescu: tomorrow large miner joins, doesn't implement it, they hardfork all they want, chainwarz.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo only workls for as long as they actually do.
decimation: re: experts: http://rwcg.wordpress.com/2014/11/13/id-rather-have-this-bill-than-not-dictated-the-professor/
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Actual soft for yes, but "if all the miners accept" softfork is a hardfork << "all miners accept" means what ?
mircea_popescu: this is perhaps the most braindamaged nonsense i read today.
mircea_popescu: HECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY can be used to create outputs that are provably spendable by anyone (thus to mining fees assuming miners behave optimally and rationally) but only at a time sufficiently far into the future that large miners profitably can't sell the sacrifices at a discount.
mircea_popescu: Proving the sacrifice of some limited resource is a common technique in a variety of cryptographic protocols. Proving sacrifices of coins to mining fees has been proposed as a universal public good to which the sacrifice could be directed, rather than simply destroying the coins. However doing so is non-trivial, and even the best existing technqiue - announce-commit sacrifices - could encourage mining centralization. C
decimation: oh wait, I thought the delays that the scammer was writing about were simply 'private delays' on the part of the machine
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 19:04:36; *: asciilifeform admits that he suspects bip64 of being a plot to create usg-like bonds in btc. folks will be asked to trace X proper btc for X+epsilon 'locked' ones that are to land back in their pocket 'in the future', should they live long enough, but are actually recovable 'because this is how the world works'
BingoBoingo: Actual soft for yes, but "if all the miners accept" softfork is a hardfork
decimation: wait, they decide protocol details on twitter now?
mircea_popescu: so a softfork does not in fact do anything, the dblspending party can just mine their own dblspend and that's that.
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2014/11/bip-65-revisiting-nlocktime/ << the problem with this is that if a miner doesn't implement the new protocol, and mines a block in spite of the supposed nlocktime lock, that block is well spent.
decimation: although to be precise, the way the military 'fires' officers is more of a 'pocket veto' - if you fail to make the cut for promotion (at higher grades) you are automatically discharged
assbot: Log In - The New York Times
decimation: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/13/us/cuts-in-military-mean-job-losses-for-career-staff.html?_r=0 << usg is broke, decides to 'fire' army officers rather than cut back food stamps
asciilifeform: 'is it rape if the check bounced?'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think one can genuinely be both simultaenously in the us atm.
mircea_popescu: "So no, I'm not required to be able to lift objects weighing up to fifty pounds. I traded that for the opportunity to trim Satan's pubic hair while he dines out of my open skull so a few bits of the internet will continue to work for a few more days."
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, what ever happened to aurora coin ? has it passed ethereum yet ?
PeterL: perhaps not the best name to drop as WoT cred?
PeterL: mrjr:thestringpuller: i'll work on getting my creds in order :) meni rosenfeld is one of our investors, and our cto Shaul Kfir was a reviewer for the sidechain paper. << wasn't Meni Rosenfeld connected with a GLBSE scam?
decimation: I could see some sense in a 'delay' in the case that an actual human examines the transactions before they are released
asciilifeform: other than 'alchemy'
mircea_popescu: adobe's shit is written in c, nobody can be bothered to compule it
mircea_popescu: was famous before mullenderp raped poetry a new hole, because you could tell from all the <hea<he</head>ad>>> mess that it had been used.
asciilifeform: aha then likely.
asciilifeform: something which the archetypical 'indian replacement programmer' occupies himself with.
asciilifeform: aha no. he was speaking of 'glue code' in the sense of gluing heavy 'prefab' swaths together
mircea_popescu: basically i got the idea from reading the piece that he means code that implements the "cut problem into parts, implement parts, glue parts together" approach
asciilifeform: menu-lookup writing of glue code << refers to systems like the (1990s? no idea if still fits this description) 'visual basic' and the like.
xanthyos: ok i may be wasting my time but i'm going to try to get that guy thomas_d into the wot again tonight
mircea_popescu: "Write a program that prints the numbers from 1 to 100. But for multiples of three print Fizz instead of the number and for the multiples of five print Buzz. For numbers which are multiples of both three and five print FizzBuzz.
mircea_popescu: as it just so happens, that theory is about to get tested.
nubbins`: that 12yo must have grown up to be the smartest man alive
mircea_popescu: imagine this, a 12 yo could figure out the serial port interface in ms-dos, without even knowing wtf a port or an interface are.
mircea_popescu: then i plugged a led into the serial port and had it blink when i lasered too, and this i think was the pinnacle of achievement.
mircea_popescu: i think in the end i got it, and so i could fire as much as i wanted, no concern for bs "laser heating"
mircea_popescu: i loved deathtrack, and i spent a while finetuning the sound implementation of basic to make the same laser sound.
nubbins`: the day i realized i could just type spcinvad instead of spcinvad.exe!!
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
mircea_popescu: "Is that a real program or is that something somebody wrote?" << ah yea, now this makes sense. i had the exact same notion, for exactly the same reason. a "real program" was something that didn't need to use the z80 basic interpreter, wasn't editable for this reason, and this immutability was cool. then on the msdos system, .exe binaries exactly mapped on this same structure of cool.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can you summarily introduce "menu-lookup" writing of glue code for the innocent ?
nubbins`: digging in your heels is the only way
mircea_popescu: this, incidentally, is exactly how hiring a lawyer has worked since at last the 60s
mircea_popescu: nubbins` what i meant was a distinction between self publishing, ie, being the editor, and self-rape, ie, being the customer of an editor specialised in raping idiots.
mircea_popescu: i'm awake because real cults don't sleep, they wait.
mircea_popescu: anyway, one of those fast food chains of legal practice. high churn, large staff of largely unqualified lawyers on dead end career tracks, whole thing kept together by paralegals, somewhat.
mircea_popescu: admitting anyone was to date naive enough to allow them to file on his behalf.
BingoBoingo: Oh, so like the think that got shat into news about litecoin mining which was settled last year
mircea_popescu: they're too lazy to do their research and sprout nonsense in their pr. imagine the sort of horribru buried in their court filings
assbot: The SEC Bares its Gums and Settles with Erik | Bingo Blog
BingoBoingo: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2014/06/03/the-sec-bares-its-gums-and-settles-with-erik/ cazalla
mircea_popescu: cazalla let me guess, they sourced it and everything.
cazalla: " Earlier in 2014, the SEC investigated Eric Voorhees for the unregistered sale of securities of SatoshiDICE and FeedZeBirds, using the Romanian online crowdsale platform MPEx to solicit investors from 2012 to 2013."
asciilifeform: not the article in question though
mircea_popescu: "Would you drive across this bridge? No. If it somehow got built, everybody involved would be executed. Yet some version of this dynamic wrote every single program you have ever used, banking software, websites, and a ubiquitously used program that was supposed to protect information on the internet but didn't."
asciilifeform: i don't own a computer 'fast' enough to 'flip' a pdf the way a dead tree heap can be flipped, and not sure if such a machine even exists.
asciilifeform: of the kind one may keep on a desk.
asciilifeform: quite possibly no human ever even sees the result.
BingoBoingo: If I were to imagine a serious book piracy operation, the standard glue "Perfect" binding would be prefered
asciilifeform: rather than glue
gribble: Programming Sucks - Still Drinking: <http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks>; Will Smith Quotes (Author of Just the Two of Us) - Goodreads: <http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/598671.Will_Smith>; How To Become A Hacker - Catb.org: <http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html>
mircea_popescu: i mean as a product. the thing itself.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform o btw, does the end product of my first foray into that industry suck ?
BingoBoingo: Oh, and original resolution of the NL MVP Stanton bet ended up being right. You can have the mods clear out all of that penny sports bet baseball spam nao
asciilifeform: not long ago, i opened yet another envelope in expectation of finding 'a book that was actually a book once' and got an ms-word formatted turd
asciilifeform: the great crime of the 'easy self publishing' of today's automagic laser-printer-with-binding-machine is... on the reader.
mircea_popescu: things that can be easy already are. things that aren't easy can't be made "easier". if you can't afford a house, taking credit doesn't make the house easier. etc.
mircea_popescu: when one approaches you with the proposition of "making things easy" what he means is, your wallet. easier to carry.
BingoBoingo: Yeah. In the aftermath I did the math on, "What if I actually had something worth publishing on tree cadavers"
mircea_popescu: it will follow the sugar gradient and that's all it does.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the story of iraq v1 and v2, for that matter.
mircea_popescu: be serving. The USAF was killing the very peasants it was there to save from communism.
mircea_popescu: The only problem was that the bombing was helping lose the war. Predictably, the peasants turned against Saigon, leading to the introduction of US ground forces in 1965. Like the body count, the number of structures destroyed had no relation to actually winning the war. It was an indicator of organisational success wholly divorced from reality, and from the values that the organisation was supposed to
mircea_popescu: More targets meant more bombing, and more bombing meant a bigger role for the USAF. The result was more budget, more planes, and career advancement for all concerned.
asciilifeform: self-licking ice cream cone << i learned the phrase from mr. mold, who used it to describe u.s. academia.
mircea_popescu: while at the same time sucking in ever more resources from worthy and effective activities.
mircea_popescu: As far as I am aware, the phrase came into usage among knowing observers of the Vietnam War. A self-licking ice cream cone is a programme or policy that costs money and resources, generating a great deal of activity; produces indicators of its own success, preferably quantitative; but does not actually achieve its announced goals. Indeed, a proper self-licking cone undermines the very purposes for which it was created,
assbot: The West's self-licking ice cream cones - Opinion - Al Jazeera English
BingoBoingo: Los Zetas started as a bunch of experts, but finite hit points and now the human shields are in charge and Nuevo Laredo can't have a nice hooker district anymore
mircea_popescu: something like that. woman previously married to some hard drinking bozo meets a phthisc young man who's a "student" whatever that may mean. the three quarrel, the kid ends up killing the man, talks the woman up a storm then... leaves ?
BingoBoingo: Pretty much the story of Los Zetas, but in reverse
BingoBoingo: And eventually after some embarrassment they have less ideas and America leaves, then ??? ISIL
BingoBoingo: The spectrum of US Armed forces experiences this past decade is a wide one. The cousin nao afraid of dentist in his whole time enlisted in the marines was either in the US or on a boat.
undata: why "IS"? I'm sure he and others clearing houses of everything that moved didn't help.
undata: a brother of a friend was in fallujah; I've heard a few of his stories, and they weren't about iced cream.
BingoBoingo recalls friend telling stories that when the was in the Infantry every few weeks he'd have to watch the Airforce at his base have friendly BBQ's with thier Afghans
asciilifeform: or perhaps he is already being shaved and fitted with new uniform for the next gig.
mircea_popescu: lol why wouldn't they be ?!
asciilifeform: the phase transition may be the point where we leave 'desertion means no more toilet paper' and move to 'desertion means access to toilet paper.'
mircea_popescu: really, the lucky aspect for the us army officers is that the arabs don't bother to learn english. otherwise, the sheer cultural pressure would probably make "boots on ground" untenable.
mircea_popescu: i can readily see numerous angles through which retiring from the us military to baghdad rather than kansas is preferable to the 19 yo mind.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> to get their teeth done. << One cousin enlisted for this reason. Now afraid of dentists.
asciilifeform: to get their teeth done.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure. think about it : be the gods of their age group ? instead of going home to hear a stupid bitchfest, stay with the people where rape is something you're supposed to do ?
mircea_popescu: but the politicos of the time were caught in the very real vice of "well, rome's poor or the vandals, about as trustworthy"
undata: so this islamic state consolidates parts of the middle east? that's probably a great thing.
mircea_popescu: in fact, it was the premier driver behind the eventual move to mercenaries, something otherwise politically incomprehensible for today's curious student.
BingoBoingo: I thought that was linked here not too long ago, except they went native at their own station.
undata: I can't rub two coherent thoughts together that make going back to Iraq a good idea.
mircea_popescu: happened to the late romans a whole heck of a lot more than they ever cared to admit
mircea_popescu: should be funny to see when the first supposed army uniot goes native.
BingoBoingo: They really do
asciilifeform: they get those from usg.
BingoBoingo: I recall they were short on toilet paper and toothpaste last time. I recall solicitations for "care packages" consisting of basic necessities when I was at school.
mircea_popescu: this time they will be short toilet paper and toothpaste.
undata: mircea_popescu: they didn't even have enough armor, etc., last time
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not the first. i vaguely recall '1 flak jacket for 3 men' in the last one
mircea_popescu: the coming iraq campaign will be the first one the us soldiers will not have enough boots and shit. maybe best enlist for something else.
assbot: So much for speculation about no more 10-yr deals. Heyman says MIA taking w/Stanton about a 12-yr, $300 mil deal. How will they afford it?
BingoBoingo: Oh look, its the S.MPOE market cap: https://twitter.com/ScottWuerz/status/533076669419245568
mircea_popescu: anyway, if anyone has a direct interest in the welfare of the poor grunts involved, like loved ones or w/e :
asciilifeform: those who order the churn, have no concept that there will not be replacement ordered.
mircea_popescu: to make it perfectly clear : any sunk cruiser reduces the total count of cruisers the us will ever have by 1.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: remaining u.s. physical industry is 99% iraq-based (that is, hardware whose inventory must be churned in some iraq or other.)
mircea_popescu: undata the funny part is, the us got so fucking raped in iraq it's hard to describe. now they want to go for round two ?
mircea_popescu: prolly the gaw dude himself.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, prolly a fake name, i've searched and searched and there is nothing on this guy
assbot: Eric Frein to face terrorism charges over fatal Pennsylvania police ambush | US news | The Guardian
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/13/eric-frein-terrorism-charges-pennsylvania-police-ambush
ben_vulpes: more shellshock in the populace
undata: I guess Iraq is the ditch we want to die in
assbot: US military considers sending combat troops to battle Isis forces in Iraq | US news | The Guardian
undata: speaking of unremarkable news: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/nov/13/us-military-considers-troops-iraq-general
asciilifeform: as a 'zoologist' of these, can't help but notice the extraordinarily-obvious specimen in the wild.
mircea_popescu: the romanian epxression is, "perfidul albion"
nubbins`: so maybe deedbot shouldn't be stripping the \n at eof
nubbins`: you dirty a line, you provide a clean one to the next guy
nubbins`: well i can see what they mean
undata: everyone in that thread is just saying that they're "supposed to"
nubbins`: truthfully i wonder if deedbot shouldn't be stripping the trailing \n
ben_vulpes: so does the patchpusher work or not?
mircea_popescu: not unless the actual women open up.
asciilifeform can only speak for the programming
nubbins`: jurov fwiw some (most?) text editors append a \n at the end of text files
nubbins`: 5 years in the trenches, baby
jurov: lol, so upgrade to py 2.7 then
nubbins`: i grab the base64 deed via json when verifying
gribble: Shaggy - It Wasn't Me - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qv5fqunQ_4I>; It Wasn't Me - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Wasn't_Me>; It Wasn't Me Lyrics Shaggy - Genius: <http://rap.genius.com/Shaggy-it-wasnt-me-lyrics>
jurov: nubbins` after the signature?
BingoBoingo: Watch our for the monkeys with Derpes B
mircea_popescu: as in, "kissing Arielle Duhaime-Ross will give you herpes, but reading her inanity in the verge will give you derpes"
nubbins`: derping is the little stupidity that leads to total insolvency
nubbins`: i must not derp. derping is the mind-killer.
jurov: apparently it actually does with uuencode..okay another todo
mircea_popescu: well if mailx doesn'tdo attachments then why do you suggest people use it to mail you attachments lol.
mircea_popescu: jurov this handles the attachment scheme you wish to use ?
jurov: mircea_popescu: gpg --clearsign | mailx btc-dev@therealbitcoin.org
mircea_popescu: i know this from the mpex faq days.
mircea_popescu: jurov sample code for mailx in the help file would help a great deal.
asciilifeform: in that, for example, all of the patches submitted so far will break if one is removed from the chain.
asciilifeform: also i don't remember if i reminded anyone of this, but unix 'patch' utility is rather braindead.
mircea_popescu: as to the meaning ?
asciilifeform: so what will be the convention for submitting 'patch note with sig' ?
mircea_popescu: and similarly, signatures get a "sig notes" following them, like signed by 01ABFFC7(n) 02ABFFC7(n) etc
asciilifeform: in that respect, all of the patches i (and the 2 other fellows) offered so far, are monolithic.
asciilifeform: as in, 'and here we remove the nuclear detonator'
mircea_popescu: shit the hard questions you ask.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do me the courtesy and resubmit as mono patches and then the new ones can win the longer sigchain race with the original one ?
mircea_popescu: or for any other system where stuff can be changed / "contributed" by "nobody". but anyway, we digress.
mircea_popescu: jurov im not even sure it should be there.
jurov: maybe you want to rate the patch? lol
asciilifeform: these matters were considered by engineers since hammurabi.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you do appreciate the following point : up until and in any case unless one actually had to put his own signature, these matters never have been seriously considered by asnyone.
mircea_popescu: anyway, even if they are all mononuclear, there's still semantic value to be had. suppose i wish to say "have read and understood this to do what it says ; have not tested it in fact".
mircea_popescu: so what happened to the suggestion ?
asciilifeform: eventually all signatures belong to the dead.
mircea_popescu: and what of the 500 orher dead people that signed his ?
asciilifeform: X.b will sit, as an orphan, inside a comment thread, until the fateful day that someone picks it up, and signs it, and convinces others to.
mircea_popescu: so basically, the correct approach here would have been for ascii to make a patch for each individual diff ?
jurov: wget http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20141112/bitcoin-asciilifeform_a6ada6bb9cebb9540df1fda3465d942a4631d202.2-https_snipsnip.patch
mircea_popescu: "Recommended process is to pipe the signed message text directly to mailx or similar client without ambitions." ahahaha gotta love jurov.
jurov: by using the file name
jurov: reply to the thread?
mircea_popescu: jurov specifically, is there any way for me to submit signature comments ?
jurov: therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev
gribble: ml.therealbitcoin.org is down
asciilifeform: ;;isup ml.therealbitcoin.org
asciilifeform: !up ml.therealbitcoin.org
jurov: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev "Submitting patches"
asciilifeform: jurov: i got yet another copy of 'patch' in email. i presume you are turning the knobs as we speak?
mircea_popescu: jurov incidentally, gimme the short version, how do i submit to this thing ?
jurov: also, ascii as right pentester scattered multiple dots in the filename so it got shortened
jurov: yes, without 1st sig it won't appear there
jurov: the original singature
asciilifeform: (one could hypothetically have a patch 'submitted by' mr x but 'signed by' mr y
jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html finally something
assbot: The danger of homebrew crypto pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
asciilifeform: (who was it who had a piece on how supposed 'enemies of usa' are required, by the laws of god himself, to use idiotically childlike crypto? was it mircea_popescu ?)
asciilifeform: they'd need to find a way to replace ecdsa with an equivalent of caesar's cipher first.
mircea_popescu: clearly terrorist internet funbux then.
mircea_popescu: other than gossip
gernika: Just seems to run contrary to the usgovmedia claim that ISIS is using bitcoin.
cazalla: gernika, i can't say i'm that interested in promoting altcoins but thanks for the tip
BingoBoingo: Eh, I'll write an ISIS coin article then.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, they kicked down the door of one muslim family for having a plastic sword so yeah
assbot: Isis declares new currency will be circulated in its bid to establish caliphate across Syria and Iraq - Middle East - World - The Independent
mircea_popescu: moreso than for their parents, trying to do the same out of marx, ziggler, carnegey and whatever other fitness trainers and pop-philosophers the almanacs would print.
mircea_popescu: i have a lot of sympathy for kids trying to piece together some shard of understanding out of isaiah berlin, rory mcilroy and ronald mcdonald.
mircea_popescu: you know, back when the euro "didn't have a chance", and like the canadian dollar, traded under the usd.
mircea_popescu recalls the eu space agency early on, such a risible attempt.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to be noted that the european space agency did it. the us relevancy, like the mass of the comet, withering away by the minute.
mircea_popescu: that was exactly "career socialist vs anarchist that overtook the party" moment.
assbot: I don't care if you landed a spacecraft on a comet, your shirt is sexist and ostracizing | The Verge
undata: not to derail, but I have to paste this here: http://www.theverge.com/2014/11/13/7213819/your-bowling-shirt-is-holding-back-progress
asciilifeform: where are the mythical 'actual socialists' - and what is even the point of looking for them.
mircea_popescu: broz tito did exactly the same thing.