asciilifeform: with the best known (or conceivable - say, using human slaves) 'speech to text' - it's suddenly nonzero.
decimation: asciilifeform: actually, you have emphasized the 'language coprocessor' feature of the brain in the past - perhaps the best interface is a reliable speech-to-symbol synth
asciilifeform: so many of these ideas are testable with nothing more than your brain and a little elbow grease.
asciilifeform: how great for the eyes.
decimation: actually if we want to go farther, an interface that examines very fine, high speed eye movements might be a high-speed method of precise data entry
asciilifeform: the spring is not just masturbatory, it's an amortizer.
decimation: 'minority report' interface would still have the gorilla arm problem, as it was demonstrated in the movie, but in theory one could devise an armrest of some kind
asciilifeform: it's a misery. i'll do without banging hands on a tabletop or waving them in air, thanks.
ben_vulpes: consider the oculus rift. instead of inertial sensors, uses rangefinders/radars to perform orientation analysis and also map surroundings in real time.
ben_vulpes: an example, if you will. not the ideal, but an example.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what doesn't work? resolution? speed? the whole not being a phased array and so incapable of reconstructing 3d?
thestringpuller: well pissing on the electric fence is a one time thing
assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 17:34:30; asciilifeform: 'some learn from book; others, from example; the rest must piss on the electric fence personally'
thestringpuller: 'pissing on the electric fence himselfi think someone died from
ben_vulpes: that the "computer" i haul everywhere cannot make a realtime 3d model of its surroundings is hilarious.
asciilifeform: who am i to say they oughtn't.
asciilifeform: point that everyone seems to insist on 'pissing on the electric fence himself'
asciilifeform: small radar modules are 1990s off-the-shelf sop. buy, try.
ben_vulpes: sounds like a bad engineering decision with small radar modules in the pipeline.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: weird habit of just doing what they tell you << lol
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: i have no idea.
ben_vulpes: deploy pattern is "get code, load deps file into docker,rebuild image with that, if build fails bail, run image, smoke test new container, if new container fails bail, then shut down old container and shoop new container into its place"
ben_vulpes: build pattern is: "install docker. then, deploy apptuation."
ben_vulpes: mats_cd03: the sj deploy hairball is entirely bash with a squirt of python to marshal aws resources
ben_vulpes: mongo ha oh boy the machine in question's what - 3 years old?
ben_vulpes: +asciilifeform:and the notion of moving fingers without any feedback springs is lunacy << hardly. feedback via optic nerve is entirely reasonable.
ben_vulpes: cazalla: "Coinsetter is now promoting participation in the bitcoin market to professional market makers by offering maker-taker pricing and a new equity incentive program beginning today. The 'Market Making Equity Incentive Program' will set aside 10% of the company's equity for distribution to institutionally-capitalized designated market makers (DMMs) who provide at least $300k of liquidity to
ben_vulpes: +asciilifeform:every penny i spend is recorded. even at parking meters. << you've got this weird habit of just doing what they tell you. i don't get it, especially given your proclivities and tendencies. it's almost as though you're...an ironic mole!
ben_vulpes: +decimation:few actual important details have been released, like "where they are gonna buy bitcoin" and "how they gonna index btc price" << the later is actually public knowledge
ben_vulpes: +asciilifeform:http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html << only displays one << jurov, paging jurov to the turdatron
kakobrekla: but havent found the use for it in a long tiem
kakobrekla: a there it is
asciilifeform: (magnet can be suspended above a buckling spring, or rubber doohickey, or whatever - but this is purely for the user's pleasure and plays no electrical role)
asciilifeform: these are found in 'explosion-proof' machinery - e.g., to be used in mines, gas pipelines
asciilifeform: a true '$maxint' keyboard would use hall effect sensors for the actuation, rather than rubber dome and carbon (topre, model m, mebranes) or contacting electrodes (leaf springs - alps, cherry)
kakobrekla: i was looking at topre board a year ago but opted out in the end
asciilifeform: as i understand, these are quite rare outside of jp.
asciilifeform: any 'keyboard folks' still awake - there are yet other famous switches, that i have not used.
mats_cd03: Chaang-Noi:not talking about anyone anyone said in this chan, just spammers who pm me about random shit << oh the irony
asciilifeform: 'alps' made, imho, the only passable ones
asciilifeform: i'm not especially fond of them
badon: I wasn't aware of the existence of this channel, and I was going to ask what it's about.
badon: kakobrekla: The discussion in #freenode about a DDoS bot here.
asciilifeform: leaf spring switches ('alps', 'cherry', others) are not normally considered repairable - on account of there being no ready supply (afaik) of replacement springs.
asciilifeform: (in the latter, the spring has been known to deform. can obtain replacement spring easily.)
badon: asciilifeform: Ah, so the mechanical ones aren't indestructible.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform what the estimated lifetime supply of northgates
badon: Still, the idea of a keyboard with ridiculously fast mechanical switches appeals to me.
badon: asciilifeform: Yes, they do.
badon: Typematrix is a small company with only 1 engineer (one of the owners), so it's easy to have your voice heard if you've got a good idea for them.
asciilifeform: badon: presumably they have happy customers already.
asciilifeform: (not so much 'model m' - i used them also, but they do not, for any practical purpose, wear out. so don't need many.)
asciilifeform: i tend to buy 'northgates' in reasonable condition whenever and wherever they pop up
badon: asciilifeform: Typematrix is planning to produce new models. If you contact them, you will have an opportunity to influence their design decisions.
asciilifeform: (leaf springs develop a 'stutter' as they age)
asciilifeform: for these, it helps to have a sacrificial keyboard in your cellar, to desolder switches from when the inevitable comes
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: Don't worry, soon we will be in the 70's
kakobrekla: we are still in the 80's
badon: The membrane is nearly as tactile, but much quieter.
badon: I've really enjoyed mine, and it's easy to change out the membrane if I wear one out or accidentally screw it up.
badon: What's the alternative?
asciilifeform won't use membrane keyboard unless trapped (laptop in the field, etc)
badon: kakobrekla: It's pretty good. I think the scissors are teflon or something else extremely low friction.
badon: Typematrix keyboards are able to do both. You switch skins to change the labeling.
badon: I can type on either Dvorak or QWERTY, but Dvorak is faster with fewer errors.
badon: Plus, the skins make the Typematrix the ultimate keyboard. My keyboard life has greatly increased now that no debris gets in them. Plus, I can switch layouts easily.
badon: Kinesis and Maltron were both really very good, but the Typematrix was a little better, and it was a LOT cheaper and more portable.
badon: asciilifeform: Yeah, I tried one of those too. I liked the Typematrix better.
badon: It's pretty durable, but I wouldn't trust it for 30+ years like the IBM model M. Of course, I take mine with me mobile, and that's extra-hard on keyboards. I think I'm averaging about 4 or 5 years before I break one of mine.
badon: there
badon: I have used several Typematrix keyboards during the last decade. I tried all the best and most expensive ergonomic keyboards, but the Typematrix was the cheapest "serious" keyboard I tested, and it was also the best. It was also the most easily portable one too. I wrote an article yesterday about them, and a few ways to get discounts and free stuff if you buy things in the right sequence: https://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?t
mike_c: i've got a friend who collects old crap like that, i'll ping him. he might know the right people to ask.
decimation: gernika: the early 90's model m's were made by lexmark, somewhat shoddier
asciilifeform: gernika: that's a standard model m from the photo, yes
decimation: yeah, whatever chinese intern wrote the keyboard driver firmware was an idiot
decimation: heh. mine has an issue where the function key 'negates' suddenly
asciilifeform: PeterL: i might do so, if any keyboard having it were worth using in the first place
PeterL: I'm suprised you don't reprogram the winblows key to be an extra control to give yourself another batch of functions at your fingertips?
decimation: I find the trackpad annoying too, not sure why people prefer
gernika: What aggravates me more and more recently is the claim that mac products are well designed, when in fact they will destroy your hands.
asciilifeform: and that's not even considering the castrated space bar (to fit the worthless winblows keys)
asciilifeform: i find them a misery.
decimation: I've used both and I didn't think that the 'natural keyboards' were all that more comfortable
gernika: asciilifeform: I find it interesting that you prefer the buckling springs over something like the Microsoft Natural Keyboard that doesn't require you flex your wrists sideways. That said, using the MS keyboard ultimately has not prevented me from having issues. I must try a springy keyboard.
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
kakobrekla: for the IBM-3279?
decimation: asciilifeform: maybe they can keep a detached dog's head alive too!!!
decimation: lol I like the .link
decimation: yeah but the layout was ok
asciilifeform: neh, model f was the pc xt keyboard iirtc
decimation: asciilifeform: I think sun made a keyboard with function keys on the left, but no buckling springs
asciilifeform: i have one. it is presently gathering dust. no time to do what must be done to it
asciilifeform: (speaking here of the giant 'model m')
asciilifeform: gernika: i expressed a wish that i had grown up with it, rather than qwerty keyboards.
asciilifeform: gernika: no, i did not actually use it in anger. for some reason i thought this was clear from the article.
asciilifeform: gernika: there's an rs232 jack but, iirc, it only pisses out a buffered text.
asciilifeform: ibm made a buckling-spring keyboard which also had this, but it suffered from other deformities.
asciilifeform: not quite as pleasurable as ibm's buckling springs. but the 'northgate' does have the function keys in their properly ordained position.
decimation: asciilifeform: basically the same action as your model-m buckling springs?
asciilifeform: just like wearing clothing, or shitting in a toilet rather than in pants, are also 'mere' habits
PeterL: there are various forms of spring to pick from
asciilifeform: and at this point i don't even care if i'm simply habituated to springs or if there is something 'intrinsic and natural' about spring clicks. i refuse to do without them.
asciilifeform: i seriously doubt that you can get spring feedback from anything other than an actual spring.
asciilifeform: they give an immediate, palpable 'stop moving now'
gernika: asciilifeform: why are tactile spring switches more ergonomic? Do they prevent you from pressing with too much strength?
asciilifeform: and the notion of moving fingers without any feedback springs is lunacy
asciilifeform: decimation: yes. the original 'microwriter.'
asciilifeform: or do they 'click' like mouse.
asciilifeform: can you hear then across a room?
gernika: asciilifeform: the buttons definitely click when you press them, but that is not what you're talking about?
decimation: there was a gentleman who bicycled across the country with a modded 1990's era computer bike - and he had a chorded keyboard
decimation: yeah the anti-nuke stuff is lulzy too
asciilifeform: reminds me of... 'The prospect of cheap fusion energy is the worst thing that could happen to the planet.' (Jeremy Rifkin, Greenhouse Crisis Foundation)
asciilifeform: 'Thats because wiping out the passenger pigeon, the heath hen, the Tasmanian tiger, and so on, as regrettable as these events were, wasnt the real mistake. It was only the indicator of a deeper moral and cultural malady.'
asciilifeform: ^ idiot luddite hates (so far, theoretical) 'de-extinction' tech because...
asciilifeform: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/future_tense/2014/12/de_extinction_ethics_why_extinct_species_shouldn_t_be_brought_back.html << another mega-lol from same rag.
BingoBoingo: Dunno selling it to the Winkelvii would be pretty troll.
decimation: Saltzer wrote multics, which is the ancestor of unix, more or less
decimation: asciilifeform: it captures some of the 'spirit' of stripping down bitcoind
BingoBoingo: ALso look at slate bullying the nerd http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2014/12/james_watson_selling_nobel_prize_dna_structure_discoverer_s_history_of_racism.html
mike_c: <+BingoBoingo> I've been reddit killed. << just being in this channel seems to get a person banned from half the internet
asciilifeform: hence, lengthy queue where otherwise none.
decimation: except - I recall when a massive snowstorm moved up the east coast and wiped out all the telco lines - suddenly everywhere was 'cash only'
asciilifeform: (my town recently installed cc readers even there.)
asciilifeform: able that they watched everybody all the time. but at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You have to live - did live, from habit that became instinct - in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.'
asciilifeform: 'Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it; moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plate commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceiv
decimation: like, at least the panopticon can be a good secretary?
asciilifeform: seeing exactly what the enemy sees (and doesn't see) is almost half as good as not being watched
mike_c: this is just marketing though. or at least, that's the primary use case.
assbot: Logged on 17-11-2014 04:35:56; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they wish to steal not merely the farmer's cow, but to also steal the farmer's "having being stolen from" << usg (and the 'enlightenment') in one sentence.
PeterL: there are document scanners which database-ize receipts
asciilifeform: kgb didn't let you grab your own real time bug feeds either.
mike_c: BingoBoingo: lol :) i use cash for the spackle.
mike_c: sorry, your shopping habits are their information, not yours.
BingoBoingo: Still, do you really want some insurer or landlord knowing how much spackle you had to buy to patch the walls after the bacanals
decimation: but as far as I know, there is no service the lets you download your own itemized receipts
decimation: mike_c: you know the thing that pisses me off the most? every retail store/credit card company conspires to record every bit of information about you that they can
BingoBoingo: Wait, people actually go to Home Depot to buy stuff they'd want a record of buying?
decimation: yeah I think we discussed the dumbification of pos terminals in the past http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-09-2014#825488
decimation: I called customer service and they said that it would be quite impossible to change the first set of numbers, because that's my account number
decimation: when my credit card number kept getting stolen (before I was smart about website passwords), amex refused to change anything other than the last 4 digits when 're-issued'
mike_c: for "my" safety. except i'm not liable for fraud. so actually they are being a pain in my ass for their safety. fucking home depot.
mike_c: yes. and now i have to run around to all the individuals i trusted before and change it.
decimation: I think this is common in the 'democratic' world - 'venue shopping'
decimation: mike_c: did it have a secret number on the front that you were only to share with pre-trusted individuals
decimation: asciilifeform: the link cazalla dropped http://qntra.net/2014/12/mastercards-submission-to-economics-references-committee-now-available/
decimation: it's obviously an idea balloon that they are going to try to use to kill bitcoin dead everywhere
mike_c: v2 of the bitbet analyzer is so cool i almost want to keep it to myself. i'd win all the bitcoins.
asciilifeform: melatonin at night: for what it's worth, i usually tune the gamma to be heavy on the red
asciilifeform: decimation: and aha, these aren't piss-ant led lights either. ccfl tubes - which means they can't be cranked down all the much (and stay lit)
undata: that'd be miles better than just trusting what ended up in the ebuild
decimation: one of the main problems that linux packaging aims to solve is exactly the issue ascii rants about, that is - lack of a global namespace for code
decimation: 'make install' the turd as it comes without modification
decimation: Dr-G: are you connected via tor and then sasl, or end-to-end sasl to freenode?
asciilifeform: decimation: aha, the 'anonymous monkeys submit, poettering signs' model
decimation: why should I trust some derp who 'volunteers' for arch over the upstream creator?
decimation: asciilifeform: one thing that annoys me about most distro crypto-discipline is that they pretend that only the 'maintainers' could sign
decimation: few actual important details have been released, like "where they are gonna buy bitcoin" and "how they gonna index btc price"
cazalla: decimation, they're pretty quiet
asciilifeform: (given public keys of the players)
asciilifeform: the beauty of the everything-pgp-signed concept is that this thing ought to be deadly-easy to mirror.
asciilifeform: or is there a new site
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html << only displays one
kakobrekla: ask ben_vulpes about the feed
assbot: f9beb4d9 #4: FAILURE (broken since build #3); Comment: result of applying the chicken patch
kakobrekla: this will get a bit spammy, but i want to have it in the log, so lets just get it over with.
ben_vulpes: dunno how i hit enter there...
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the gizmos in question were 'sx2462w'.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: them.
asciilifeform: eizo, opium of the eye
asciilifeform: lol, i've quite the collection of freshly minted 'paperweights' here (all the retiring non-eizo panels)
BingoBoingo: I was thinking more like a pinky finger cased in lucite, the chunk of flesh, not the monitor
asciilifeform: decimation: all the pleasure of good deal, ruined by getting shafted in a newly discovered (personally) way
BingoBoingo: You could ask for a portion of the monkey?
asciilifeform: it was a unicorn, and the usual shipper-insurance/vendor-guarantee combo does not really work on unicorns.
decimation: I went to a ebay 'junk dealer' once. The owner knew his electronics, but he employed a bunch of monkeys to pack, ship, and do clerical work
asciilifeform: only reason i even bother to bring this headache up here in #b-a is that it presents an interesting case
asciilifeform: it wasn't the vendor.
asciilifeform: just thinking about the imbecile who packed.
decimation: maybe for you, today, they sell for $1.4k
decimation: mainly the whole screen
asciilifeform: thing is, these are $1.5k machines that sold together for 300. what, ask for refund for one?
asciilifeform: so here's a poor man's mega-lol. i buy two 'eizo' sx2462w monsters. both show up, were packed in new, m0d3rn expanding chemical foam. one - properly. other - with all the foam on one side of crate. naturally, frame cracked, 'bullet hole' of dead blue pixel on crystal.
ben_vulpes: "Currently, digital currencies lack the basic protections consumers have come to expect when transacting online. For example, contrary to a consumer's experience when paying wit a MasterCard product, if a consumer uses digital currency to make a purchase on line and the merchant fails to deliver the goods, the consumer has no recourse through the digital currency's network." << oh lordy
decimation: xinxiwang: I've always wanted to ask a singaporean what he thought about politics in the us compared to politics in sg
undata: so it seems "half" is the usual amount of taxation wherever you are
decimation: yeah, but there's a cap
undata: decimation: woah, 28% on the lowest tier of UST?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
undata: decimation: 13%, the communists!
decimation: re: regressive tax < pete_dushenski made me aware that Russia actually has a regressive tax, probably for the same reason you think it is a good idea - the rich are more likely to pay
decimation: maybe they hacked those chinese flash cards with onboard microcontrollers for write leveling/usb to compute
mircea_popescu: amorous answer than you were looking for but we actually are putting the finishing touches on one of our biggest data centres yet in the next couple of weeks, I actually spoke to someone a few days ago who saw it and he's never seen that many miners and flash computers in one place."
mircea_popescu: "Josh Garza What we can talk about is everybody, so, we quite literally use every major manufacturer in the world, so, bitmain, we're actually in discussions right now with bitfury, *inaudible*, I mean, every single company. We are in the process of beginning to build our own chip, we do have hardware that is not publicly available that created economies of scale for us, kinda all over the place, probably a less gl
cazalla: only a scammer would mix the 2 up
cazalla: anyway, his timeline is still fucked up, bitmain didn't even ship scrpt miners back in october nor can you mine scypt coins with sha256 asics despite him claiming otherwise
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, species exist for the same exact reason and through apparently the same mechanism subatomic particles "exist"
gernika: Reading at a higher level seems akin to using higher level programming languages. The ability to pack more information into fewer lexical units is powerful. Just realized this.
undata: ben_vulpes: well said; I have my doubts as to whether this particular one is stable
ben_vulpes: undata, danielpbarron: things on the manifold of reality find trajectories of stability away from each other because niche specialization
mircea_popescu: o yeah she was one of the brides huh
mircea_popescu: hanbot which is this one anyway ? the 90s thing with ryder ?
mircea_popescu: this is a cognate of the guy who bought glasses to read. because that's what he was missing.
mircea_popescu: "Why are you locking up these important notices in a PDF turd hosted on a site with Facebook integration." BingoBoingo because they seek external validation, and they believe inaccessibility and hermetism are a good proxy. like all ignoramuses ever do believe.
gernika: Well, first I have to learn Greek. Then Latin.
mircea_popescu: course, it did markedly improve pretty much any language-related cognitive function in the process.
gernika: mircea_popescu: I find that if I follow your hints, I can understand more of each of your posts. 1. Research all references not understood. 2. Read multiple times. 3. Get better at reading by learning what words actually mean (that is, learning the etymology of each).
mircea_popescu: (who, incidentally, only does movies if she's raped in them, for some reason. perhaps with the exception of that one where she kills herself at dinner with her ex.)
mircea_popescu: and irreversible is of course that atrocious production with the 10 minute bellucci rape scene.
mircea_popescu: now who the fuck could hav efigured that out. i gotta make more footnotes.
mircea_popescu: holy shit how could that make any sense to anyone other than me ?
mircea_popescu: mircea popescu The white hierarchy supporting society collapsed ? How does the French underground go from rengaine to "Irreversible" ? WW2. Most of the better Frenchmen got shot.
mircea_popescu: and so i tried to read that thing with the eyes of a stranger
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1HT47Up )
mircea_popescu: http://www.xenosystems.net/chaos-patch-38/ << this guy, that apparently binges on trilema, linked http://trilema.com/2014/of-mendacity-mold-bugs-and-other-things/
BingoBoingo: One step forward, two steps back with these coinfire people.
BingoBoingo: Neanderthals died for their socialism
gernika: danielpbarron: What are the criteria for something to be an intermediate species? How long does something have to have been around and how large does the population have to be for it to be classified as such? Seems like for populations that were at no time higher than the hundreds of thousands it would be very unlikely to expect to find fossils. Google tells me the peak population of neanderthals