nubbins`: anyway. suppose you're walking at 5km/h, due north. all of your displacement is in the y direction. now suppose you head northwest; you're walking the same speed, but you're going slower in the y direction because some of your displacement is occurring in the x direction.
Naphex: soo.. does bitcoin - in the current form have intrinsic value? cute question
badon: My personal favorite recently-minted Chinese coins are these: https://www.coincompendium.com/w/index.php/CCT3564
mircea_popescu: "A requirement that all transactions go through regulated and transparent administrators subject to supervision by Australia authorities (rather than just the current block chain process);"
mircea_popescu: "As we have learned from the experiences emanating from the Mt. Gox Bitcoin exchange collapse, the existence of a "block chain" does nothing to allow law enforcement, other government authorities or the public to identify the real identity of the parties to a digital currency transaction."
nubbins`: the whole spacetime thing finally clicked with me like, two weeks ago, hey?
mircea_popescu: nubbins` did you kick out violent times out of clocks by suggesting they space out, too ?
gribble: George Carlin - A place for my stuff - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLoge6QzcGY>; George Carlin - A Place For My Stuff - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5yJpM0BGc8>; A Place for My Stuff - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Place_for_My_Stuff>
nubbins`: check the weight.
nubbins`: badon, maybe so. i've got a handful of x-for-x coins, mostly just the nice ones
mircea_popescu: badon im not into metals anyway, but i'd definitely buy metal rather than you know, fashion, hype, whatever. "the sizzle"
Naphex: probably the only thing that has intrisic value is time :))
nubbins`: but i'd rather my $50 coin have a half-ounce of silver than not
badon: nubbins`: Yeah, but they aren't all there is. The lunars are the original flagship series of the China mint. The pandas were minted for foreigners.
nubbins`: badon i do know that chinese silver pandas are the cream
nubbins`: there's 20 for 20, 50 for 50, 100 for 100
badon: nubbins`: The collectors are fleeing the West. Everybody wants Chinese. Even the Anglosphere has reduced itself to imitating Chinese lunar coins.
nubbins`: altho the whole "$50 for $50" thing is neat.
nubbins`: it's like the sculptors have never worked in relief before.
nubbins`: here's another brutal one: http://www.mint.ca/store/coins/50-for-50-fine-silver-coin-snowy-owl-2014-prod2090035#.VH24AGTF8Yc
mircea_popescu: nothwithstanding anecdotal success getting retarded kids to give you their lunch,
Naphex: is there such a thing as intrisic value?
badon: mircea_popescu: It's difficult to predict which coins will be valuable, but I'm literally writing the book on the subject.
mircea_popescu: badon as long as you never pay more for a coin than the metal value you're safe enough.
badon: The high metal value coins are to be avoided. Perfect example: https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/2npm32/somebody_just_made_an_easy_5k_on_ebay/
badon: nubbins`: That's one reason why I like the Chinese coins so much. They're still producing rare coins each year, and Chinese collectors are mostly unaware of them. Canada is not populous enough to make a coin with a mintage of 25'000 extraordinarily valuable, but China is populous enough to make a coin with a mintage of 100 extraordinarily valuable. Make sense?
nubbins`: they produce *maybe* 5 coins worth buying each year
nubbins`: look at the font.
mircea_popescu: jesus they need a faster server.
nubbins`: if a wildlife officer came across something that looked like that, he'd shoot it in the head
assbot: Pure Gold Ultra-High Relief Coin - The Fierce Canadian Lynx - Mintage: 500 (2014) ... ( http://bit.ly/1zdhaKE )
nubbins`: http://www.mint.ca/store/coins/pure-gold-ultrahigh-relief-coin-ndash-the-fierce-canadian-lynx-ndash-mintage-500-2014-prod2220074
nubbins`: mircea_popescu look at the royal canadian mint for a perfect example. dozens of new designs per year, almost all of them would be "tales from the crypt volume 34" if they were books
mircea_popescu: it's not unlike calling "literature" the huge pile of us produced pulp.
badon: The CC is intended to serve as a historical record. Much of what we know about many coins would be completely lost eventually without the CC.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that's at least in my disinterested and ignorant view, the bane of "numismatics" applied to things made after ww2.
nubbins`: those kialara bars are the only mildly interesting development since 2011
nubbins`: these days, everyone and their dog is making "physical cryptos" and they're all the goddamn same.
nubbins`: casascius coins, sure. first of their sort.
nubbins`: i'm on the fence
badon: I think physical bitcoins ought to be collectible like any other coin. They're historically important, despite not being "official" in any way.
badon: nubbins`: Ah, so you've had a taste of the nectar of numismatics :)
nubbins`: i single-handedly raised the market price for one specimen from 1.5btc to 15btc
mircea_popescu: that's such a good hook for the online crowd.
nubbins`: the gentle way
badon: It's actually a fundamental market principle that information increases the value of the commerce.
badon: nubbins`: By the way, the CC (and me in general) tends to make coins more valuable when comprehensive information is made available about them. That gives you an edge.
nubbins`: badon i can't promise anything (very busy month) but if it's there, i'm more likely to poke at it
badon: nubbins`: If you want, I can create the project for you in the forum, and we can do some experimenting to get it rolling.
badon: nubbins`: The CC will make you seem like a genius :)
badon: The CC already has over 5000 types.
nubbins`: i'm the closest you'll find to an expert around here
badon: I know next to nothing about physical Bitcoins, and honestly, I don't have the time to become an expert in them.
badon: nubbins`: Only your expertise is needed. The CC project as a whole is led by me, and we have a professional data entry team to do the grunt work.
nubbins`: there's also a guy "elianite" on the forums who updates a casascius coin PDF with some rare specimens
nubbins`: badon i don't have much time to lead projects, but like i said, spotcoins is pretty much the definitive resource
badon: nubbins`: Oooh, you're a physical bitcoin collector. People here suggested that the CC should track those, but the CC would need someone to lead a project to do that.
nubbins`: they will destroy your hands how
mircea_popescu: gernika: What aggravates me more and more recently is the claim that mac products are well designed, when in fact they will destroy your hands. << mactardism is a very visual field. it doesn't account much for function.
badon: nubbins`: I'll repaste them, one sec. I started keeping a list of examples based on mircea_popescu questions.
badon: nubbins`: Did you see the examples that I pasted here earlier?
badon: It takes lots of data, and lets you connect the dots.
badon: The CC isn't really a search engine. I guess you could call it something like a correlation engine.
nubbins`: as far as casascius coins go, the marketplace is already pretty focused
badon: For example, every sighting for a coin specimen has a venue URL data bit attached to it. So, if you're posting your coins on your blog and you arrange to have them entered into the CC, then yes, someone could use the CC to buy your coins.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: not interested in such experiments. << try have the girl go naked for a day, srsly.
nubbins`: you should bump heads with melbustus on the forums, he runs spotcoins.com
badon: The CC does things that I don't even know it's doing.
assbot: Buy Bob Dylan - Blood On The Tracks (Vinyl, CD) at Discogs Marketplace ... ( http://bit.ly/1pMCIO8 )
nubbins`: can i buy and sell coins on the CC?
badon: The CC can do everything that can do, of course.
badon: The funny thing is that he had heard of the Coin Compendium before he met me, which is taking a while for me to get used to.
adlai: the question holds for any measurable, or at least "totally ordered", attribute
mircea_popescu: NOW, the faster she runs, the less of a woman she is. objectively. how do you get out of that shit.
badon: Yep, that's me. They used to call me the silver guy, or the palladium guy, or the art guy, or whatever it was I was making money in back then.
mircea_popescu: perhaps even why i like it in the first place.
adlai holds up his copy of tensor analysis, pointing at the uncracked spine. this actually exists and has actually not been cracked yet.
adlai: eg "the average man is faster than the average woman, the fastest woman is faster than most men, but the fastest man is MUCH faster than the fastest woman"
mircea_popescu: the median of an undefined attribute you don't even have a measure of,
adlai: it seems completely obvious that evolution of geographically separated populations progresses separately... a more interesting question is what proportion of population A fall behind the median of population B
mircea_popescu: i dunno how they manage to be this stupid.
mircea_popescu: there's no fucking usable definition of intelligence, we've yet to build a computer model of intelligence, yet these people talk of some sort of statistical intelligence as if it were a thing.
mircea_popescu: i mean seriously, the intelligence ~of groups~ ? wtf does that even mean.
assbot: Fury at DNA pioneer's theory: Africans are less intelligent than Westerners - Science - News - The Independent ... ( http://bit.ly/1pMzlXx )
mircea_popescu: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fury-at-dna-pioneers-theory-africans-are-less-intelligent-than-westerners-394898.html << some thing in 2007.
adlai: ah the sciam article
mircea_popescu: His views are also reflected in a book published next week, in which he writes: "There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."
mircea_popescu: quite instructive piece on the mechanics of us socialism, all the various bits in full view.
mircea_popescu: "In order that the unfortunate views not overshadow the big scientific contribution, some of these folks would rather we stop talking about Watsons having made the claims he has made about racial difference (although Watson shows no apparent regret for holding these views, only for having voiced them to reporters)." << and the mechanics of "regret", ie, we won't stop being stupid, the victim has to abjure!
mircea_popescu: nationalize all the things!
mircea_popescu: anyway, basically this entire thing is a "you don't get to have any ~intellectual~ capital either, it all belongs to the state, to be used as slate anon editor directs it to be used".
mircea_popescu: i find this quite scandalous. the "everything of value comes from socialism" narrative is pernicious enoughm
mircea_popescu: "Indeed, part of the danger of the hero narrative is that scientists themselves may start to believe it. They can come to see themselves as individuals possessing more powers of objectivity than other humans (thus fundamentally misunderstanding where objectivity comes from)"
mircea_popescu: "knowledge-building team" is it now. a hunter^H^H^H^H^H^H-gatherer perspective on science! there's no hunters, just a buncha women sitting around by a bush doing knowledge-building.
mircea_popescu: nt of great men (and yes, in this narrative, it is usually great men who are recognized). This narrative ignores the fundamentally social nature of scientific knowledge-building and the fact that objectivity is the result of teamwork."
mircea_popescu: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/doing-good-science/2014/12/01/james-watsons-sense-of-entitlement-and-misunderstandings-of-science-that-need-to-be-countered/ << check out SA laying down the law of the land. "Positioning James Watson as a very special scientist who deserves special treatment above and beyond the recognition of the Nobel committee feeds the problematic narrative of scientific knowledge as an achieveme
adlai steals "That's like causing a tsunami in Japan by flushing the toilet in Detroit.", thx badon!
mircea_popescu: prolly obama predicts the workings of a cell.
mircea_popescu: "It is a fundamental misunderstanding of how science works for him to think that his expertise at one level of analysisa molecular levelpredicts anything at a higher level of analysis. The structure of DNA does not predict the workings of a cell, which does not predict the shape of a body, which does not predict the characteristics of a culture."
jurov: mircea_popescu: how is the foundation supposed to be zero asset corp. when it maintains treasury?
mircea_popescu: cutting out like 2/3 of the value of all that collection (the actual guy wanting receipt copies etc) because well... they gotta be weird teenagers about it and do it voyeuristically. not the same thing if you know about it. except of course you know. but wait, suspension of dsibelief!
mircea_popescu: decimation: like, you know, so you can share in the bounty of their information? << good point this.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: for "my" safety. except i'm not liable for fraud. so actually they are being a pain in my ass for their safety. fucking home depot. << haha EXACTLY.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: decimation: and aha, these aren't piss-ant led lights either. ccfl tubes - which means they can't be cranked down all the much (and stay lit) <<< this is the deal breaker for me. i actually run the monitors at about 50% gamma.
mircea_popescu: it's how the entire "do-ocracy" nonsense got its cognitive start. the rebellion of the cleaning ladies, basically.
mircea_popescu: decimation: why should I trust some derp who 'volunteers' for arch over the upstream creator? <<< so very much this, o lordy.
assbot: The mobile "revolution", or what consumers have come to expect pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1vEVSWP )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-mobile-revolution-or-what-consumers-have-come-to-expect/
mircea_popescu: gave you the link above.
badon: It's in my head somewhere, but the problem with having lots of info is it can take a while to find it.
badon: I think there was a movie scene that showed something like that happening too, which was interesting.
badon: Most of it is secret information, but I seem to recall an event in the 1990's, but I don't remember where. There might have been one more recently too.
badon: The USA has missilized downed satellites with nuclear material on them when they land in places like Iran.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo in what parallel universe do the thorns on the cactus prevent tequilla production ?
badon: Plutonium's existence can be easily detected from mere air sampling in the general region. You can't hide the fact that someone near you has it.
BingoBoingo: Or you make the pile bigger
BingoBoingo: What about once you have it? Hypothetically... At that point concerns about headcount to protect it go out the windows... Kind of the flipside of gold.
badon: It's extremely difficult to produce plutonium unnoticed, and you have to have a military to tell other militaries not to try to stop you from producing it.
BingoBoingo: I'm just wondering if there's any risk someone might start up production on a scale that hypothetically/allegedly would tank its value
badon: Plutonium is directly tied to the uranium market, so rising value of plutonium is reflected as rising value in uranium.
badon: BingoBoingo: certain varieties of it are currently the most commercially valuable substance in existence.
BingoBoingo: badon: What are your thoughts on the plutonium market?
badon: Myself and a guy in Canada were the only people in the world to publish a prediction about palladium. He got lucky. I kept doing it over, and over, and over, for 10 years and counting.
mircea_popescu: so they might as well not exist far as im concerned.
mircea_popescu: but they're not in my wot
badon: They will tell you no.
badon: mircea_popescu: I have a lot of enemies at the china-mint.info forum. They have tried to find fault, so ask them if I delete my own posts.
badon: I don't have that, because I don't delete any of my published posts, including the ones I would prefer to go away.
assbot: How to make money on the Internet while pretending you know what you're talking about and accumulating a legion of mindless followers - for fun and profit! pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ybDbfR )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/how-to-make-money-on-the-internet-while-pretending-you-know-what-youre-talking-about-and-accumulating-a-legion-of-mindless-followers-for-fun-and-profit/
badon: You'll have to look, I honestly don't remember how far back it goes. I have hundreds of articles, and I think there's a chronological list somewhere...
badon: mircea_popescu: That's when the discussion group was founded. I'm not sure how far back my articles go. At least to 2009, for articles that are still online on the SMF forum site.
badon: mircea_popescu: The silver chart is eluding me. You can see a review of my predictions for 2014, dating back to 2012, here: https://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?topic=5632.msg37706#msg37706
badon: You could ask them. That's a popular site. They used to talk about my articles a lot there. Not sure if they do now, though.
mircea_popescu: it's the banner on forums.silverstackers.com
badon: For example, when I was investing in silver, I called the direction and timing of market changes with 100% accuracy. I made a convenient chart of my predictions somewhere, let me see if I can find it.
badon: In other words, please investigate what I'm saying. It's valuable info.
badon: mircea_popescu: I call my shots publicly. Check my track record at LBC. No financial analyst in any market ever in the history of ever has been as accurate as I am.
mircea_popescu: profit potential however can not be either.
badon: The point is that comparing China to the West can cause severe under-estimation of profit potentials in the Chinese coins.
mircea_popescu: im sure some sort of something or the other was big in south and north america. so what of it.
badon: If I remember correctly, the comparison still held for both.
badon: mircea_popescu: The lists are sortable by land area and population.
badon: For example, if you look at a wikipedia list of the largest empires, I think the Romans don't even rank in the top 10.
badon: China goes big, much more so than the West.
mircea_popescu: maybe you're seeing too much into the natural excesses of first generation chinese new money.
badon: Actually, the differences between Western mature numismatic markets and China's immature numismatic market, may not be a negative factor for the profit potentials in Chinese coins. For example, important American art might sell for a few tens of millions of dollars. Fairly unknown Chinese art can sell for hundreds of millions of dollars.
mircea_popescu: http://www.ebay.com/bhp/roman-denarius << wow check out how cheap the denarius is even
badon: That's why the comparison isn't 1-to-1
BingoBoingo: Is !!!!! the new =====
badon: mircea_popescu: Coins from China with a mintage of 100 can be bought for under $200 if you're lucky. The same coin in a mature numismatic market could sell for millions of dollars.
badon: I could create a project for it at the CC, if someone wanted to oversee it. I'm not qualified to do it myself, and we don't have the funding to have the CC team do it without some major help.
mircea_popescu: " I don't mind over paying a little as the wise man baden always says, to get what I like but I have limits & they are based on potential of growth, 10% is better than bank interest but I would rather a potential 50% - 2000%!!!!! (savvy or greedy?!)"
punkman: badon, I mean bitcoin-themed physical coins
mircea_popescu: badon you're familiar with the various "physical bitcoin" issues that often sell for whatever, 15k
davout: mircea_popescu: a way to speed the rollover up would be to not wait for each other to be around to perform our respective steps in the process
badon: mircea_popescu: That's also why the market is so reliably profitable.
mircea_popescu: fucktarded us "consumers" ruining the world.
badon: mircea_popescu: It is a challenge, truth be told, that's why the CC is so handy.
mircea_popescu: "I try to identify & buy into the hype in the beginning or as it is happening (the pro's would be about 2 steps ahead of me) but not after the initial rush because of the lower potential for price rise."
badon: The funny thing is, it's a prominent fellow in China who can't even read English. They have noticed the badon effect all the way in China, despite the fact all my writings are only in English. That's like causing a tsunami in Japan by flushing the toilet in Detroit.
badon: Today I was just notified that someone is sending me a few hundred dollars worth of free coins to me, solely because he likes them and he wants me to write about them more often.
davout: if there's a day you weren't around i would be able to identify this particular day, yes :-)
badon: Check out this chart here, it shows my influence over the rare Chinese coin market: https://www.livebusinesschat.com/smf/index.php?topic=5632.msg37707#msg37707
badon: mircea_popescu, punkman: Have you heard of "the badon effect"?
mircea_popescu: davout if you're around on the 15th i dun see any reason for it to take more than a few minutes.
davout: you can't disable the auto-stfu
davout: it's like the IRC nick hairgel
mircea_popescu: you proly missed the `
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask davout!~davout@unaffiliated/davout. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user davout: Level 1: 3, Level 2: 24 via 14 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=davout | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=davout | Rated since: Thu Jan 27 16:22:24 2011
badon: what is "the wot"?
mircea_popescu: get in the wot an' talk to nubbins` you'll be like two peas in a pod.
badon: coins aren't as rare as they truly are.
badon: mircea_popescu: Anyway, did you see the simple research example? It's basically checking past sales prices, but the power of the CC allows you to count the number of specimen appearances on the market to determine rarity. Ordinary price guides would just show a bunch of sales, with no epiphany that all those sales are actually only the same 2 coin specimens over and over. The number of sales alone would mislead you into thinking the
punkman: mircea_popescu: no they are still working on that
badon: davout: That's the thing, it's not hacked, it's stock.
punkman: badon: you should probably watch out for that ddos bot, now that your links are in the logs
mircea_popescu: im sure the script kiddies in our related webinar will be all over that.
mircea_popescu: well, you think wrong. lemme dig the link.
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
mircea_popescu: badon listen, get registered in the wot, i'll rate you just for nubbins` pleasure.
badon: mircea_popescu: You haven't seen anything yet. We use SMF at the CC forum as a bug tracking system.
mircea_popescu: you might be the weirdest guy here.
badon: That one is complicated, and shows off some of the power of the CC, but you might not understand it if you're not savvy about the particular market we're talking about.
BingoBoingo: Set it and forget it. None of that line noise on the audio jack and nao all of your XML is borked bullshit.
mircea_popescu: stuff the w3c has been doing long after everyone stopped paying attention i guess.
badon: Yeah, we hide most of that complexity at the CC, which is saying a lot considering how complicated it is already.
mircea_popescu: "The technical foundation of the Semantic Web is given by the standards RDF - Resource Description Framework (for data description), OWL - Web Ontology Language (for giving the RDF terms a formal meaning), and SPARQL - SPARQL Protocol and RDF Query Language (as a query language and protocol)."
badon: A coin you hold in your hand is a specimen. Other coins like it are of the same type. When you see one of them being sold on ebay, that's a sighting.
badon: They are hierarchical, in that order.
badon: For example, there are 3 main kinds of data: Types, Specimens, and Sightings.
mircea_popescu: afaik it copies wikipedia even to the "need donation" point. i really can't discern any structural difference ?
badon: Wikipedia is incapable of handling the computing demands.
mircea_popescu: then how do you know if yes or no ?
mircea_popescu: dja know what i mean by the "one-blockchain" reason ?
mircea_popescu: so basically you're doing a wikipedia alt-chain, got raped for the one-blockchain reason and are now trying to make it work in a private fantasy world.
badon: It's really hard to predict how people will use the CC's data.
badon: "External" people (as you say) can request an account of course. We watch what they do carefully, and I'm planning on creating a class of users that can only edit info, not add more pages. It's much easier to fix mistakes on otherwise correctly entered data.
badon: So, the CC has a professional data entry team now.
badon: No, that was the original plan, but it failed because it's too complicated, and there's too much data that can easily become a problem if it's not correctly entered.
mircea_popescu: so the site will work well if a lot of people external to it put a lot of work into doing things in a certain way it prescribes for their benefit ?
badon: Well, actually, the CC can track a single bill by its serial number.
badon: For example, each coin known to the CC can be tracked on its journey through time and space.
mircea_popescu: well no, if you make an engine and i ask "show me the part that'll make me grok wtf this is" you don't wanna show a leaflet.
badon: mircea_popescu: Hmm, OK, let me think for a bit about that. Maybe you could read the Fundly description?
mircea_popescu: "The Coin Compendium needs your financial support to remain in operation for the month of December 2014! Other ways you can help: Donate images."
badon: punkman: It was pretty obscure until a few months ago, so I'm still reacting with surprise when people ask me about it out of the blue.
mircea_popescu: badon this chan is the public forum of a new power in the world, ie, the people who have been made immensely rich by bitcoin and are slowly but surely taking over the world.
assbot: Logged on 09-10-2013 03:46:03; mircea_popescu: i am amused at the noobs that still don't grasp why their average bitcoin lifespan is less than a year.
mircea_popescu: stupid ass paradigm wherein business has come to mean "serving consumers" and obviously then the consumerness of individual people has to be "supported" by the state, and soon enough you've got an anthill being built want it or not.
mircea_popescu: leia*. for some reason i keep conflating her with the dog.
mircea_popescu: or the idea that what "consumers" "have come to expect" is relevant in any discussion of anything nonfiction anymore than princess leila's opinion would be.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin wants to entirely destroy the things crap such as mastercard even stands on,
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes: "Currently, digital currencies lack the basic protections consumers have come to expect when transacting online " << because what the "consumer" has "come to expect" is the fucking alpha and omega of the perceptible universe.
cazalla: ben_vulpes, that's dated nov 13th, bit old by now, must've missed it at the time
assbot: Logged on 22-09-2014 04:33:40; asciilifeform: switching caps lock and ctrl << 'Emacs actually comes with a builting Emacs Aptitude Test. Do you remap your keyboard or the Emacs keybindings before the chords and sequences it comes with by default have wreaked havoc with your hands? If you do not do anything to make Emacs more convenient for yourself, you may not have the prerequisite aptitude to use it productive.' (naggum, who else. http://www.
ben_vulpes: what are the different meanings available?