decimation: my family is nearly all from germany, but they stopped teaching their kids the language around wwii (in the us)
mircea_popescu: no but we like them :D
mircea_popescu: at least afaik the only place.
mircea_popescu: but the respective cultures actually accessible and tied in.
mircea_popescu: it just occured to me that b-a is actually the only place on the english web where german, russian,french, spanish etc are not merely spoken,
mircea_popescu: whoever did the decors put a shitton of intelligent work in
mircea_popescu: they're in teh film
mircea_popescu: if you're curious to get a feel for the actual flavour of everyday bvack then, it's a good primer.
mircea_popescu: decimation "at the time" for 1940 tho.
decimation: http://imgur.com/79DTA7H << "By 2020, current cost trends will lead to an average cost of between $15 billion and $20 billion for a leading-edge fab, according to the report. By 2016, the minimum capital expenditure budget needed to justify the building of a new fab will range from $8 billion to $10 billion for logic, $3.5 billion to $4.5 billion for DRAM and $6 billion to $7 billion for NAND flash, according to the report."
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/79DTA7H << 'no parking' sign outside of that post office. (i don't presently have a photo of the inside.)
mircea_popescu: they run it because they're not smart enough to even figure there's away out of the paper bag, as a principle.
decimation: I know for certain that nazi-era IG farben was way ahead of the world in paint technology at the time
mircea_popescu: those shitty plastics of the era... not really very mouldable...
asciilifeform: there's a post office here where i live now, that seems to have been painted with the very same paints
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dja recall soviet paints of the 80s ?
asciilifeform: 1980 built into its core << only the bad parts
decimation: the problem is that 2014 has 1980 built into is core, under layers of 'tardation
decimation: I was pricing a nice wild-caught salmon from alaska, goes for $20 per lb at the cheap rate
mircea_popescu: just, they found ways to repackage cheaper shit as food.
assbot: GCHQ boffins quantum-busted its OWN crypto primitive • The Register ... ( http://bit.ly/1uipowx )
asciilifeform: re: public key: incidentally, agitprop! http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/03/gchq_boffins_quantumbusted_own_crypto_primitive
asciilifeform: laugh, but bill gates referred to the great unsolved problem 'factoring large primes' in one of 'his' 'books', in dead tree print.
TomServo: know, but there is no limit at all to how much you don't know but think you do!
TomServo: Consider this: knowledge is always limited and specific, but ignorance is infinite and completely general; knowledge is hard to convey, and travels no faster than the speed of light, but ignorance is instantaneous at all points in the known and unknown universe, including alternate universes and dimensions of whose existence we are entirely ignorant. In short, there is a limit to how much you can
decimation: I can see why satoshi avoided using the nist curves, but using ecc in general was probably a bad move
mircea_popescu: in fact the reason why we favour rsa is quite long.
mircea_popescu: there's also that.
decimation: people have been banging their heads against factoring large primes for a long time
mircea_popescu: for FUCKING OBVIOUS reasons, such as... the involvement of pi! this is true for curves too.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform's fond of pointing out to the pi problem of "random numbers", ie, for all you know xth index of pi digits is random
mircea_popescu: but there's also some scienfitic doubt. you really don't know a) how good a "random curve" is n the generla case ; b) you don't really know how to calculate the quality of a good curve.
decimation: using the secp256k1 parameters
mircea_popescu: <decimation> Is there a similar procedure for ECDSA? << sort-of. the exponent is ideally chosen randomly as well as the index.
mircea_popescu: there you go.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> how many u.s. expats are willing to, say, break their backs doing actual work for the locals ? << all women that i ever met. srsly.
mircea_popescu: <undata> or hell, loot the nearest shoe store for some nikes if that's all you can muster << petty crime is really a very poor plan.
decimation: I guess my question above (rephrased) is this: does the secp256k1 algorithm allow for any arbitrary 256 bit vector to be used as a key? Or is there a restricted set that will be more secure than other cases?
assbot: Logged on 18-11-2014 01:12:37; asciilifeform: it will be a 'temporary relocation center' to them, even when the shower heads start hissing out the zyklon.
asciilifeform: (which is likely to be sooner rather than later)
asciilifeform: not to 'evil conspiracy crackpots', that is. to 'reasonable, polite society folks' it will be a mystery until the day they die.
asciilifeform: why the most retarded design decisions << this was never a genuine mystery.
decimation: and speculation on why the most retarded design decisions were made to force vulnerabilities
asciilifeform: this is extensively beaten to death in the literature.
decimation: do these still compete today? russian military and svr?
asciilifeform: see, until dhs there was no ready u.s. analogue.
asciilifeform: decimation: also this story concerns the russian ministry of internal affairs (sorta equivalent to u.s. fbi)
decimation: well, probably for the same reason soviets wanted pdp11
decimation: asciilifeform: why would the russian foreign ministry run winblows?
mike_c: ecdsa works on the magical horseshoe principle. you start from one spot on the horseshoe and shoot over to the other side, and where you land is difficult to figure out.
decimation: yeah, it was a noob implementation. But it brought up a question in my mind: for RSA, private key and public key are derived from a prime number. Is there a similar procedure for ECDSA?
decimation: seems like a good recipie to greatly restrict the keyspace
decimation: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: deterministic wallets << the ware that someone dropped in the chan a few days ago was amusing: you enter you die rolls on the command line (history!) and then it converts to 'diceware' string, and then it takes a sha256 hash
EPiSKiNG-: worthless are they?
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask EPiSKiNG-!~EPiSKiNG-@unaffiliated/episking. Trust relationship from user danielpbarron to user EPiSKiNG-: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 15 via 15 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=danielpbarron&dest=EPiSKiNG- | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=EPiSKiNG- | Rated since: Thu Jun 9 02:05:20 2011
thestringpuller: today I heard the phrase: "Encryption as a Service" used as a buzz-phrase.
undata: wife there, etc
undata: I don't feel a burning urge to attract the attention of that govt
asciilifeform: (re: germans: there is ample evidence that fleeing nazis wanted for nothing, and were kept in plentiful supply of every conceivable necessity and luxury by u.s. cia. but 'traditional' narrative still has them living in what were essentially reservations in ar.)
asciilifeform: how many u.s. expats are willing to, say, break their backs doing actual work for the locals ?
asciilifeform: the pub is really the property of the freeloaders, or local chieftain, whoever; the 'owner' is simply a clown kept around for entertainment value and while he brings over friends to spend usd
undata: argie let nazis retire there; what's wrong with a few 'muricans? :D
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu had an article (or perhaps a thread here? but can't seem to find it...) about an archetypical u.s. expat. fellow keeps a pub somewhere in thailand, or cambodia, etc. the locals - drink for free. he fancies that if he begins to run out of dough, he can always start charging. but somehow in the back of his head he knows what will happen to his sorry arse if he were to do so.
undata: maybe so, but I'd rather have something to struggle towards
asciilifeform: undata: i haven't the faintest clue about where you went (or will go) but most u.s. expats may as well be living back home, where they are.
undata: asciilifeform: I just want somewhere to sit and watch the bonfire
undata: I can; as for the rest, natural selection's a bitch
undata: seems to me that there are two circumstances to avoid: 1) being crunched under the US gov's ever-increasing bureaucratic mass 2) the skullfucking that is due to the US when there's an entity powerful enough to perform it
undata: or hell, loot the nearest shoe store for some nikes if that's all you can muster
undata: +asciilifeform | mircea_popescu: most u.s. subjects don't have an obvious rational action to follow the awakening of 'aha so i'm living in a zoo run by demented vivisectionists, now i need to...' << make money and gtfo in my case
nubbins`: would a vampire say "there is a vampire"? :S
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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most u.s. subjects don't have an obvious rational action to follow the awakening of 'aha so i'm living in a zoo run by demented vivisectionists, now i need to...'
mircea_popescu: for thatmatter, even 30 years ago, "the us" aka "america" was something you'd have had to be chomsky not to believe in.
mircea_popescu: none of them actually had to hang themselves for this lapse in their youthful judgement,
mircea_popescu: plenty of women woke up one day to discover they married an asshole over the endless count of years.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because of the inevitable question, then, 'well what do i personally do now, seppuku?' that follows
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: quite a few folks say 'well yes, criminal' but for some reason refuse to walk the logical implication, a -> b..
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> - that is, who do you wish to see win? <<< seems rather uncontroversial by now that the us is a rogue state. at least to my eyes. but in two years of this we've yet to meet somerone who actually believes the us to be anything but a criminal organisation.
mircea_popescu: <mats> in my opinion, this is a fundamentally irreconcilable difference between govt agents and intel agents << idealised intel agents. like idealised doctors or lawyers, doing "liberal professions". like naggum's idealised "real programmers". problem is, these people don't exist in the counts you might wish to employ. they exist in short supply.
mircea_popescu: <mats> i get the impression that most americans accept as fact that torture is ineffective << for sure. do you know what else they accept ? that "free markets don't work" and that "socialism is democracy" and all sorts of similar things. do you know why they accept them ? because they want to believe. 16 yo 7/10 valley girl also believes she's "beautiful" and that "she really has a chance". why wouldn't she, as far as
mircea_popescu: mats> relying on a source that's been tortured, now, thats not useful, but thats why you verify the information... << it's complicated. generally, by the time you have to torture people you're dead in the water.
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> is it weird << notrly. like you know, if you hear a "sailor" talk about "Ships falling off the earth margin" you can also suspect they're the 15yo fibbing variety of seawolf.
assbot: Logged on 06-12-2014 05:01:41; asciilifeform: these folks will eventually build arse-mouth systems and try to eat their own shit.
mircea_popescu: "we are the clueless horde because everyone is clueless because we are clueless because everyone is clueless because that's all that exists because that's what we are because that's what one should be because that's what one can be because that's what we think because that's what we are because that's what we'ver seen because..."
mircea_popescu: the self-feeding circle of shit. "shit out because shit in because shit out because shit in because..."
mircea_popescu: "When those voices are the only ones heard, it makes wider adoption and acceptance less likely." <<< so says... who ?
mircea_popescu: <Pierre_Rochard> for many of the redditards it is a ~feels~ social movement, rather than a macro-economic force of nature << like everything else. like, that's all they got.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> 'The CIA did not hold any detainees after April 2008.' <<< "the fed won't monetise the debt"
asciilifeform: mats: the actual enemies of usa population are already in usa - occupying high posts in wash., dc.
mats: its actually a humorous indictment of the CIAs HUMINT operations, that they weren't able to get useful information from the rendered
BingoBoingo: It wouldn't end with "win" another criminal enterprise would emerge. better win is probably stalemate
asciilifeform: it all depends, also, on whether you see usa as just a normal country, or - a fundamentally criminal enterprise, whose enemies - any and all of them - are really friends of mankind by virtue of being it's enemies, and are in fact defending themselves from usg colonial rape.
mats: you're going to ask an intel agent in the field to handicap himself, at the very real risk of being killed because of morals imposed by someone outside of the game?
undata: there's a distinction here between the guy that forces you to your desk to work, and the guy that jiggles your hand as you try to write
undata: too busy checking over their shoulder
mats: PR backlash blah blah, anyone with a mild degree of intelligence understands this is how the game is played
asciilifeform: undata: there is precisely one actual government - what you were thinking of as the 'second'
undata: not at the whim of some unaccountable second govt
mats: you think they're running a day care or something?
mats: i get the impression that most americans accept as fact that torture is ineffective
undata: rather than "do we want to live under the fear of a bureaucracy that tortures people at will?"
mats: this is what happens when you let HUMINT fall to the wayside
undata: mats: makes me wonder if that's the tactic: making the conversation about "Is torture effective?"
dub: which might be the point?
asciilifeform: !s rectothermal
mats: relying on a source that's been tortured, now, thats not useful, but thats why you verify the information...
mats: danielpbarron: my grandparents watched the second plane hit from a high rise several blocks from the towers
mats: I'm really irritated by this nonsense in the media about "torture is useless as an intelligence tool"
Pierre_Rochard: thestringpuller: because people like the author think Bitcoin _actually_ is a ponzi scheme and that they have to help attract greater fools, so public relations / appearance/ etc are super important to -sell- bitcoin to the unsuspecting masses
undata: is it hard to believe that they could've both been hit by planes and demoed?
undata: I'm under the impression that many people in adjacent buildings saw it happen
thestringpuller: I can't take them seriously.
thestringpuller: is it weird that everytime I see someone talk about adoption and acceptance in an article I immediately think they are a n00b?
Pierre_Rochard: “The decentralized, non-governmental nature of digital currency makes it particularly appealing to those of an extreme libertarian bent. When those voices are the only ones heard, it makes wider adoption and acceptance less likely."
assbot: The Biggest Dangers To Bitcoin Come From Proponents, Not Opponents - NASDAQ.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1waq24G )
BingoBoingo: http://www.nasdaq.com/article/the-biggest-dangers-to-bitcoin-come-from-proponents-not-opponents-cm421357
Pierre_Rochard: for many of the redditards it is a ~feels~ social movement, rather than a macro-economic force of nature
asciilifeform: black friday << mega-lol at the conspicuously-absent actual numbers
undata: not that I'd be surprised if you sucked some other conspiracy theory on the towers out of Alex Jones' tailpipe
asciilifeform: 'Two important cipher suites, GOST and Camellia, have been reworked or reenabled, providing better interoperability with systems around the world.' << LOL!!
thestringpuller: the cryptopriest
asciilifeform: 'The CIA did not hold any detainees after April 2008.' << i've a bridge to sell ya.
asciilifeform: - or rather, a minimum of what to expect. the main purpose of the report appears to be usg bashing itself for hiring incompetent torturers on 'favourite son' contracts. implication is, 'we need to recruit real pros' - and every reason to expect that it will be tried, at the very least. out with the amateur finger-choppers, in with the transcranial pain centre stimulators and 'fMRI' gizmos, etc.
undata: asciilifeform: in this case I'm more than certain they're lying in the direction that makes them look better
asciilifeform: ^ document of questionable veracity, prepared by known professional liars, but good source on what to expect when you end up in the tender care of usg.
asciilifeform: 'The CIA lacked a plan for the eventual disposition of its detainees. After taking custody of Abu Zubaydah, CIA officers concluded that he "should remain incommunicado for the remainder of his life"...'
punkman: the waterfall stronger than ever eh
assbot: Announcement: Pleased to share that the syndicate organized by /BitcoinTrust & our trading division won 48k bitcoin auctioned by US Marshals
thestringpuller: what does the warm water enema achieve?
TomServo: Dumb question I suppose; hoped an asciilifeform joke made it into the report. arse/mouth etc.
TomServo: Sorry for having to ask but: would 'rectal feeding' actually allow you ingest some nutrients? or what would be the point?
assbot: The Senate Just Released the CIA Torture Report. Read the Full Document. | Mother Jones ... ( http://bit.ly/1zKcDiS )
mircea_popescu: that's some endurance right there.
jurov: if you want from me to test first with all conceivable smtp/mime oddities, filenames, etc... then that'd be vey long wait
jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/patches.html << still b0rk3d ? << will work after you finally submit more patches and signatures.
cazalla: thestringpuller, i've seen pete's face everywhere today lol
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: ;;later tell pete_dushenski lol http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2opywc/blockchain_is_doing_the_right_thing_and/
punkman: click on date and it takes you to the logs
jurov: the chan does not have enforced topic
iang: Perhaps I had erroneously assumed the channel is about tech to do with assets
iang: ah, so is this channel about the discussion of various asset classes?
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask danielpbarron!~dpb@c-71-232-150-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. Trust relationship from user fluffypony to user danielpbarron: Level 1: 2, Level 2: 3 via 11 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=fluffypony&dest=danielpbarron | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=danielpbarron | Rated since: Thu Mar 21 17:26:04 2013
fluffypony: of course, those that aren't in that trust group can be given the privilege of temporary voice (30 minutes) by anyone within the trust group
fluffypony: and that is: to vastly increase the SNR by only allowing those in an extended trust network (up to level 2 from the point of origin, that is assbot's level 1 trust group) to talk
fluffypony: this channel has taken the WoT and used it for a purpose beyond OTC trades
fluffypony: either using Bitcoin message signing
fluffypony: in the beginning when OTC (over the counter) trades with Bitcoin were more prevalent than crappy / scammy exchanges there was a need for an expression of trust relationships
punkman: it was already there because of gribble and #bitcoin-otc
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2014/12/virransom-the-latest-ransomware/
iang: so, why does this channel use gpg authentication to filter traffic?
assbot: China bans wordplay in attempt at pun control | World news | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1qpoYch )
punkman: puns are forbidden http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/28/china-media-watchdog-bans-wordplay-puns
iang: danielpbarron: not really. I might be the “pgp sucks” guy tho
punkman: iang: does anybody use Ricardo these days?
mircea_popescu: everyone just knows the upgrade mantra.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform notice how nobody mentions the "fix your bdb max nodes thing"
assbot: At the corner of University Ave. and Eighth. /hashtag/berkeleyprotests?src=hash http://t.co/5MoNmviExN
ben_vulpes: you guys the social security administration website keeps office hours: https://secure.ssa.gov/ICON/main.jsp
assbot: Rapid Agent Restores Pleasure Seeking Ahead of Other Antidepressant Action | Neuroscience News Research Articles | Neuroscience Social Network ... ( http://bit.ly/1AYB7pA )
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dutch+oven | 3. Dutch Oven. when you are laying in bed with a "significant other" and you fart then hold her head under the blanket. girl: what did you get me for valentines ...
BingoBoingo: I don't understand the nerve of people who won't contest shit at all.
BingoBoingo: Maybe it is the post-Burnside bust bump?
PeterL: Asicminer seems to be picking up today (up 25%), did they release some good news or something?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The entire MSFT business model since balmer has been having the most farts that smell on their platform
undata: there's probably a boutique for that here
PeterL: now you should be able to say: scoopbot -fetch and he will get the scoop
undata: we can just have an economy of buying and selling apps with each other
asciilifeform: 'it wasn't bad as far as jobs go, but eventually the goats got too tight'
undata: it wasn't bad as far as jobs go, but in the end we invented a shitty version of emacs in the browser in JS
undata: and it was 2-way synced with the source code
undata: drawing a line between two columns of two tables and using a venn diagram in the middle to define the join type
undata: that pg_meta embodies the approach; for everything, you make a data model
undata: I haven't seen them release much else yet
undata: I left the company when I lost a conflict over whether we should shift focus from burning the founder's money to making money
undata: at my old job, we were creating a visual SQL editor as the primary way of fiddling this envisioned programming environment
undata: the "mind extender" vector - rather than "derp this until any idiot can 'use' it" - is much more interesting
undata: the relational part made a bit of sense
undata: asciilifeform: I am going to have to read your loper-os blog all the way through
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
asciilifeform: and then silence.
iang: ha, no. Is that based on the RNG problems that various platforms had?
BingoBoingo: iang: Current best practice seems to be gen RSA/RSA and just make the it huge
asciilifeform: then why problem ?
iang: yah. I remember (one of?) the last person I used to talk regularly with gpg would make keys every month and dispose of the old ones. I only talked to him maybe once a month so it didn’t last...
mircea_popescu: on the internet, everyone knows you're a troll.
BingoBoingo: Similarly everyone on the internet is themself alleged to be a troll at some point on a long enough timeline
BingoBoingo: Pretty sure everyone on the interent is at some point.
BingoBoingo: iang: You could produce a GPG keypair and register with the gribble bot
iang: hmmm… you have to sit there and do that every 30 mins?
asciilifeform: he was, at first, not able to show that it would not span the entire solid earth plus atmosphere.
BingoBoingo: Also worked on the dumpster 486 packard bell with windows 3.1
cazalla: BingoBoingo, i never used it, i was maybe 15-16 at the time and muh uncle constantly telling me to buy shares in sausage software
asciilifeform: if you give a damn re: what this means, invite one of them in. i can't muster the strength to defend the nonsense, even as 'devil's advocate'