ben_vulpes: someone could even write a script that takes an input, a config file, and a desired output to cook up the desired transaction.
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with "create 6 new addresses, split change on any tx among these 6, usingthe same number of nonzero digits as the payment"
ben_vulpes: maybe i'm getting cranky, but the "specify all important outputs, remainder is for the miners" behavior of transaction processing should never have been papered over.
ben_vulpes: the implicit "pull new key out of keypool (creating new keypair if keypool is exhausted), send all spare coins beyond the explicitly specified mining fee to this new keypair" routine.
ben_vulpes: plus the whole "sendto" paradigm provides the opportunity for downright nefarious behavior like sending change to random addresses.
mircea_popescu: at the very least you need a safe enumerator of pubkeys.
ben_vulpes: yeah, why not? or check any of the myriad blockchain explorers.
ben_vulpes: not fundation policy by any stretch of the imagination, just my opinion at this point in time.
ben_vulpes: i'm of the opinion that facilities for btc handling beyond creating and signing raw transactions are entirely unnecessary.
mircea_popescu: prolly would have been better if they actually became an independent project and continued separately, but beggars/
mircea_popescu: importprivkey is trivial tho, just not supported by the gui or w/e
ben_vulpes: discovered that 0.5.3 doesn't have the create/sign raw transaction facilities :(
mircea_popescu: on the topic of "can irrational numbers that are powers of rational numbers be written out as polynomes with rational parameters"
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=HYIP | The word "hyip" is the bastard child of the words hip and yip. Usually repeated twice in quick succession, the pitch of your voice should match the level of your ...
thestringpuller: Ponzi, been watching too much happy days with the Fonzie.
thestringpuller: The P in that acronymy stands for Ponzie though...
Azelphur: can I reply to that with the wikipedia article explaining that a HYIP is a ponzi scheme
gribble: The operation succeeded.
thestringpuller: yea but I had an intense dream about snoopy and vince guaraldi, and then the second I log in your name is the first one i see on the stack
thestringpuller: and I had dreams about snoopy and his theme song
joecool: so is there a new sploit in the wild doing reflection attacks with wordpress? we got a pingback from trilema but we don't have it showing up in our logs (and we don't show up in the ones trilema posted)
kakobrekla: >Maybe MPEx should offer end-to-end quantum access to the engine, enabling users to submit orders with precisely defined wavefunction, instead of pretending above behavior is a bug and trying to fix it in vain or rationalize it backwardly. < lol
assbot: MPEx and the HFT problem pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/16WeuZx )
ben_vulpes: the wallets notion is actually dangerous to noob minds. how is anyone ever supposed to get a decent comprehensive understanding of bitcoin if it's behavior is wrapped up in this pernicious notion of wallets?
Adlai: a saner approach (and probably what the relevant laws actually say, rather than this trite simplification) is that some amount of time has to elapse between placement and cancellation, perhaps measured on the "volume clock"
ben_vulpes: although it's right in line with the bitcoin 'no backsies' ethos.
ben_vulpes: the notion that an order once placed must live on until filled is pretty lulzy
Adlai: scalpl executes approximately 0.1% of the orders it places, i guess i'm fucked
ben_vulpes: watch out Adlai, you're in their crosshairs now.
Adlai: "It was illegal for traders to place orders in the form of “bids” to buy or “offers” to sell a futures contract with the intent to cancel the bid or offer before execution." <- wat
BingoBoingo: "Damn it why couldn't this have been sponsored by Dogecoin? Can you imagine the amazing midfield logo?"
BingoBoingo: So, the Qntra Bitcoin Bowl Recap hasn't gotten the best reception: http://qntra.net/2014/12/bitcoin-bowl-recap-nc-state-wins-34-27/#comment-4911
assbot: The Bitcoin Bowl field looks like it was pissed on by a giant dog.
cazalla: thestringpuller, nah, didn't even ask to go for a drink, fkn canadians eh
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 27-01-2014 05:25:17; asciilifeform: there is, for instance, a legend of an occasion where it was necessary to move several $mil in dollars out of the ussr
decimation: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/a/13989 << according to this guy, the answer is 'yes', they are kept around in the mempools of the running clients - but this seems just a little bit shakey...
decimation: I assume all of the transactions in the extinct chain are swept into new blocks from that point forward?
decimation: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/5859/what-are-orphaned-and-stale-blocks/5869#5869 << using this guy's terminology, the shorter chain suddenly becomes extinct
decimation: asciilifeform: thinking about my scenario earlier (two halves of the world), the real issue is that transactions need to be communicated as well as the blockchain
decimation: asciilifeform: all the 'ceo' will accomplish hiring 30 'actual inventors' will be to produce 30 disgrunted ex-employees
Apocalyptic: should have been "invent" by the way
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: you don't need 30 of those. no existing company is equipped to fully utilize the output of 3, much less 30.
Apocalyptic: he meant people that will presumably invent something worthy for the company
asciilifeform: i don't think it is a mystery, to anyone even remotely connected with the sordid business, what it was that he meant.
asciilifeform: unless mr. 'i want to hire 30 great programmers tomorrow morning' wasn't writing from a psychiatric hospital, the parsimonious hypothesis is that he meant something other than inventors when said 'great programmers.'
asciilifeform: or otherwise 'can you play violin? don't know, i've never tried yet'
asciilifeform: and why would they want to work for you
Apocalyptic: note the dubious claim that a programmer nowadays will invent stuff
asciilifeform: imagine wanting to hire 30 'great mathematicians' tomorrow morning.
asciilifeform: 'I asked the CEO of a startup with about 70 programmers how many more he'd hire if he could get all the great programmers he wanted. He said "We'd hire 30 tomorrow morning."'
Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> paul graham << what the everliving fuck is a 'great programmer' anyway // he gave some interesting property of such a creature, but no definition alas
asciilifeform: and when do we let the great, e.g., bootblacks in ?
asciilifeform: paul graham << what the everliving fuck is a 'great programmer' anyway
asciilifeform: decimation: that cannot communicate by radio, homing pigeon, or narco-couriers with scrolls up their arses ?
asciilifeform: decimation: the planet is also split in half? and the halves end up in two separate universes ?
decimation: if a harddrive were sent across the iron curtain, how would the transactions on the other side be reconciled?
decimation: asciilifeform: your 'offline' blockchain scenario is interesting. thought experiment: what if there was a new cold war and the Internet cleanly split in two halves?
decimation: thought experiment: what if tomorrow infinite immigration between the US and say Europe was allowed? What percentage of "exceptional programmers" would leave their current lives to go work for some hobo in Silly-con valley?
decimation: "But this whole discussion has taken something for granted: that if we let more great programmers into the US, they'll want to come. That's true now, and we don't realize how lucky we are that it is. ... And if we don't, the US could be seriously fucked."
decimation: lol re: mr. spam's email << me thinks the lady doth protest too much
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2014 03:52:10; asciilifeform: every day i wonder why the 'arm' architecture so thoroughly beat 'mips' (closest competitor in the 'risc' world) in the markets
asciilifeform: 'what exactly is the point' << the point is that it isn't an 'arm.' and isn't a closed turd.
assbot: MIPS Creator CI20: The Raspberry Pi competitor that isn’t | ExtremeTech ... ( http://bit.ly/1wOYORL )
asciilifeform: unrelated: http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/195369-mips-creator-ci20-the-raspberry-pi-competitor-that-isnt << infuriating idiocy
asciilifeform: then sure.
ben_vulpes: ah, forgive me. i mean "blocks" as in relatively easily handled block data. for example, the json that's returned from getblock.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: when you said 'vomit forth blocks' - sorta implied that one must delve into the protocol docs to make use of said vomit.
ben_vulpes: i'm not arguing against parsing the blocks. it must verify the chain on download and be able to regurgitate the data on command. i suppose that i'm being too dense to grasp your meaning.
asciilifeform: so there it must sit.
asciilifeform: because, by definition, there will be no variation in it.
asciilifeform: in other words, everything that is a 'timeless' part of bitcoin - i.e. cannot ever change or hardfork - must be a working part of the client.
asciilifeform: if it asks you to set the vertical and horizontal scan frequencies manually, independently...
ben_vulpes: i'm circling around the notion that all bitcoin should do on the topic is vomit forth blocks on command, referenced by height. perhaps transactions, but i'm not even convinced about that.
cazalla: they've also reattributed what were patrick murck's articles to one jinyoung
ben_vulpes: that though is not a function of intermittently walking the recent blocks. function of braindamaged "db" implementation.
cazalla: well, that didn't take long.. bitcoinfoundation.org has redesigned their website yet again
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: well in theory, yes. but go and try this exercise with traditional bitcoind.
ben_vulpes: then you know the last received block and ideally you have all of the blocks since then and can walk them.
asciilifeform: what if 'incoming' happens every six months, when the mail ships sail in ?
asciilifeform: classical bitcoind behaves very poorly if the assumption of always-on high speed net connection is violated.
asciilifeform: what if 'incoming' happens every four days, when the satellite drifts overhead ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: consider the usual apparatus that wants to know that 'it's been paid' without holding any secrets whatsoever.
asciilifeform: customary workarounds like importing a private key and then 'losing' it are idiotic.
ben_vulpes: why is balance enough in that situation? what can you do with balance that you don't in reality need the specific unspent outputs for?
ben_vulpes: open to discussion on the topic!
asciilifeform: at the very least, one must be able to determine 'balance' of an arbitrary address.
ben_vulpes: i'm currently of the opinion that providing a tube through which to suck the blockchain is accetable.
asciilifeform: yes, this means that the traditional bitcoind does not entirely 'bitcoinate.'
ben_vulpes: - keep up to date with the main chain
asciilifeform: let him get with the game.
ben_vulpes: difference this time around seems to be that this orbiter is now terrified for his business propositions in the shartupsphere.
asciilifeform: just the same as mr. spam, or naggum's stalkers, in that they would regularly insist that 'they're done with' him and the 'pit' he dwelled in - but seemed to structure their entire waking lives around frequenting his haunts and crapping out abuse
asciilifeform: dan mocsny (discussed on a few occasions, another well-known usenet figure) also had orbiters.
asciilifeform: one might say that they 'won.' likely, naggum became wormfood that much sooner than otherwise could have.
asciilifeform: it is because he dared to put psychopaths in their place. and so attracted at least half a dozen of these 'orbiters.'
asciilifeform: some folks i've introduced to herr naggum's writings turned their nose, mainly on account of these pieces
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3233665390989375_-_@naggum.net.html << another mr. spam of his
asciilifeform: ople react extremely hostilely to any feeling that somebody else tells them what to do and are unable to cope with the helplessness and powerlessness they feel after being told what to do, but this is not anybody else can fix for them.'
asciilifeform: 'it is _never_ politeness and courtesy these lunatics want. (If it were, they would simply prove the superiority of being polite and courteous.) They want _other_ people to be polite and courteous because _they_ do not want to feel humiliated or threatened, but who can tell what makes a deranged lunatic feel humiliated or threatened by just and proper criticism, especially by proxy as the worst of these outcasts do? These pe
ben_vulpes: interesting to watch the attack escalate.
cazalla: asciilifeform, he was having a laugh with the host while saying that
asciilifeform: 'For us as the Reserve Bank... ...we'll have to figure out how we make money because the way we generate most of our revenue is through forms of seigniorage, people are willing to hold currency free of interest and that's how we make money...'
cazalla: BingoBoingo, i was going to watch that yesterday, settled on dumb and dumber to, fell asleep from the sambuca and up at 430am given i nodded off early
BingoBoingo: So the new North Korea movie. Not bad. Indicts the United States about as seriously as it indicts North Korea.
adlai: humpty numpty sat on the wall. was he put or did he call?
assbot: White Christmas (Black Mirror) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/13JVsDP )
assbot: Be Right Back (Black Mirror) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/13JVgV9 )
adlai: ah, that's what the orlov post reminds me of! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Be_Right_Back_(Black_Mirror)
adlai: the lines between faking dead social media profiles, faking a living person's profile (that they don't know of), and creating profiles for a person never even born - are quite fine.
adlai: ok, the orlov piece is good. i'll settle for equally obligatory.
jurov: future will end the obituaries "Created by Facebook"
assbot: Meet Mr. Bitcoin and Curly the dog, mascots of the Bitcoin Bowl or whatever - SBNation.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1x7HyHh )
BingoBoingo: http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/12/26/7450623/bitcoin-bowl-mascots-giant-smiling-bitcoin-bitcoin-dog-other-bitcoin-dogs
punkman: "“Thanks @KimDotcom for the vouchers–you’re the reason we stopped the attacks. @MegaPrivacy is an awesome service,” Lizard Squad tweeted, confirming the successful intervention."
Azelphur: why wouldn't it be? that's the JSONRPC interface, which is HTTP
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#L1927 << lovin the html coded right into bitcoin
punkman: davout: who decided, and why, that the contents should be gpg signed ? << it was mp's spec. even if you don't want to tie messages to identity, need some kind of access control and WoT works well for that
davout: guess i didn't see the spec
davout: who decided, and why, that the contents should be gpg signed ?
davout: what made you decide on requiring the contents to be gpg signed ?
assbot: Logged on 01-12-2014 15:03:57; punkman: while we're on the topic, I want to make a service that fetches a URL, hashes contents, and then bundles and notarizes those. thoughts?
davout: iirc that's absolutely not how the deeds system is implemented
davout: just sha256 it and send that to the bot
davout: why would this require keys on the phone ?
davout: i was thinking about it the other day, about how it might make sense to embed some variant of it in a smartphone photo app >> take a pic, boom proof of existence
punkman: davout, no it's dead at the moment
punkman: yeah someone was cashing out the faucet
ben_vulpes: davout: seemed to at the time
davout: punkman: does the deeds system actually work?
punkman: oh shit they rebranded XBMC, "Due to the potential for typo-bugs and breakage from Kodi renaming YOU ARE STRONGLY ADVISED TO MAKE A FULL BACKUP before performing a manual update and perform a “Reset System Settings to defaults (Soft Reset)” after the update."
punkman: so in the bin it goes
punkman: but I got other things to rage at
jurov: wouldn't be beyond them to have exposed rs422 points somewhere, or at least a backdoor
punkman: nobody seems to have hacked one of these yet
jurov: <BingoBoingo> [20141226 04:56] cazalla: Well, Jurov dropped the link. << actually BingoBoingo pm'd me "act like you've discovered it" jkjk
adlai: y u hate the planet
adlai: well thank you, how goes the deeding? :P
punkman: how goes the scalpeling adlai
adlai: the Right Thing™ would be to use cl-json instead of st-, and schematize everything
adlai: you could just clone the damn thing, make me feel better when i obsess over my traffic stats
assbot: i got a chapstick that was on bargain but then I realize I don't have lips why did the freemarket betray me
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=inbread | A mispelling of the word "inbred". Yeah, I know, sad.
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Havelock | Oct 11, 2014 ... Havelock. A small shit hole outside of the slightly larger shit hole called petitcodiac. It has a high level of inbreads. Guy 1: you live in Havelock!
adlai wants to see his work shattered to bits by the invisible hand
adlai: this code isn't really used in scalpl yet, i'm kinda manually hacking together a shitty version of what this could eventually become
adlai: this is the first baby step in my journey to reinvent parallel computer
ben_vulpes: gave me the willies when first i looked at it
ben_vulpes: no thx, i've got other fishies to fry.
adlai: one of the give-me-your-exchange-API-keys-and-i'll-make-you-money
ben_vulpes: i think i know the guy
ben_vulpes: what do they do?
adlai: these may have been the most important 15 insertions(+), 3 deletions(-) of the past like three months
adlai: well, they found themselves at the three point line with nobody nearby, so they tried to make the best of the situation
adlai: that's a lie though, there is no shortage of caffeine
cazalla: my sambuca says otherwise
adlai: for the record, i think that's a shame and a sin, and that y'all are a little silly for this - but that may be the guinness speaking, or jack, or johnny. who knows.
adlai: this is not surprising. this channel has strong ideologies and discusses them in hyperbolized monochrome, and absolute certainty polarizes absolutely.
adlai: asciilifeform: the purpose is crystal clear. for somebody out there, this channel and/or its pervading mentality represents something they are against, and they gave their best shot to hinder its growth
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Well, Jurov dropped the link. NinjaSpamzor is a moderator or some shit on that venue though.
cazalla: given BingoBoingo posted in the original thread, i am inclined to think he responsible for said hijinxs :P
asciilifeform: can we get king of nk in the wot ?
assbot: How to kill Americans with geometry: A North Korean propaganda film for kids - The Week ... ( http://bit.ly/1zD4lNk )
asciilifeform: http://theweek.com/article/index/255243/how-to-kill-americans-with-geometry-a-north-korean-propaganda-film-for-kids << mega-lol
asciilifeform: saffron << real puzzler here. who the hell pulls that kind of gag, and why ?
hanbot: heya thestringpuller, thx, tho ninjaderpgun would be impossible to unfunnicize
cazalla: there ya go, it was a rusemaster https://twitter.com/SexyMissSaffron/status/548319185202597890
decimation: it's amusing to see an argument of the form "I'm doing action X which tends to result in Y, but only trolls would believe that I want the result Y because reason R"
Luke-Jr: and my point was that the trolls' claim is ridiculous, since I have no incentive to block gambling at all
kakobrekla: anyway, i would not really give away the addys. not because of the damage you couldnt do but i was saying it to point out its a battle against infinity.
kakobrekla: idk where i got that idea then.
Luke-Jr: now miners will safely use your policy without losing out on their pooled earnings
kakobrekla: and bet on 'wisdom of the crowd' ?
Luke-Jr: well, that's another thing :p
Luke-Jr: one of my goals right now is to make it so people can just drop a Python/Ruby/whatever script in their bitcoin directory for their policy
kakobrekla: well if we are shifting the blame we can shift it on the miners for not giving shit and devs for not making it easy
Luke-Jr: so my idea there was to just have the default be some not-totally-absurd random value, so at least people who care about datacarrier support set it themselves
Luke-Jr: so since node operators are lazy and don't set their own policies, it puts a weird centralising pressure to try to make some kind of one-size-fits-all policy. which makes for lots of stupid political arguments
Luke-Jr: actually, if that pull request is still open, the default must still be 40
Luke-Jr: increased the default*
Luke-Jr: it's just node policy - what the node in question will choose to relay, mine, etc
Luke-Jr: danielpbarron: this OP_RETURN stuff has nothing to do with the consensus system or blocks
ben_vulpes: Luke-Jr: "Perhaps we should set the default to a random value between 0-80 at startup, to incentivise miners making their own decision without actually forcing it explicitly."
assbot: Change the default maximum OP_RETURN size to 80 bytes by Flavien · Pull Request #5286 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/13yyb7s )
decimation: kakobrekla: the guy writes in a normative way as if he was in charge of something
assbot: Change the default maximum OP_RETURN size to 80 bytes by Flavien · Pull Request #5286 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/13yxXgE )
kakobrekla: >I think OP_RETURN has shown itself to be seriously problematic; and we continue to have problems with people beleving that storing non-bitcoin related data in the chain (as opposed, e.g. to simple commitments or things like ECDH nonces) is an approved, correct, non-antisocial use of the system.
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=derp | The contemporary DNC and GOP parties are one party. the DeRps. Ignore what they say, watch what they do! Your common DeRp wants government spending.
mircea_popescu: o wait, the us dept of state middle east efforts ?
gribble: Colour revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colour_revolution>; Vladimir Putin: we must stop a Ukraine-style 'coloured revolution' in ...: <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11243521/Vladimir-Putin-we-must-stop-a-Ukraine-style-coloured-revolution-in-Russia.html>; Putin says Russia must prevent 'color revolution' | (1 more message)
asciilifeform: a few of them
mircea_popescu: o hey. what'd you think of the obama-castro thing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform capitalists exploiting the workers eh ?
ben_vulpes: see the chart
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask ELio19!~elio19@gateway/tor-sasl/elio19. Trust relationship from user assbot to user ELio19: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=ELio19 | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ELio19 | Rated since: Thu Mar 8 00:37:21 2012
ben_vulpes: ah that's right the virulent robert viragh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: once the why is answered, the "make their own" is answered too, fiveseconds later << typically this question gets 'answered' when too late. as in the case of the russian trans-siberian pipeline.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, i've seen the prettiest black girl i ever saw.
mircea_popescu: was he their milkman or what ?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: nigger is one thing, that's like freedom of speech << for some reason the Chappelle show skit that involved a white family with the last name "Niggar" came to mind.
mircea_popescu: apparently people do think 100 dollar bills are worth 100 dollars just because they can reliably transmit 100 dollars.
mircea_popescu: lol buffett doesn't wish for the currency part of bitcoin to exist huh
mats: “Stay away from it. It’s a mirage, basically. … It’s a method of transmitting money. It’s a very effective way of transmitting money and you can do it anonymously and all that. A check is a way of transmitting money, too. Are checks worth a whole lot of money just because they can transmit money?"
ben_vulpes: quickly, bahahara, send in the assasins! he's vulnerable!
ben_vulpes: anyways can i do ya for anything else before emptying the dog's tanks?
mircea_popescu: its an imperialist ploy to subdue the reaction.
ben_vulpes: next year when the keto freaks show up you'll want to ban glycogen or summat
mircea_popescu: nigger is one thing, that's like freedom of speech and shit like that. but saying the bad about mpex and shit ?
ben_vulpes: in any event it should be evident from the gross exaggeration of the lines in question what my intent was in that exchange.
mircea_popescu: eggnogg, bringing the covert of christmas!
mircea_popescu: this has been another eggnogg powered conversation.
mircea_popescu: pretending they're really christians
mircea_popescu: maybe they're covert sunday drivers.
kakobrekla: well i see them here on sundays ?
kakobrekla: like taking out the trash for example.
mircea_popescu: there's no "control" involved when the two options are "give us stuff for free" and "disappear into the night"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: because - in all but one out of thousand cases - why??? << once the why is answered, the "make their own" is answered too, fiveseconds later .that's the point.
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2014 17:38:41; scoopbot: New post on The Whet by han@thewhet: http://thewhet.net/2014/how-to-blame-others-and-entertain-people/
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller << re the techcrunch cadaver washing job in the case of mccaleb : mebbe someone should write a piece detailing how tech crunch bit a steel girder providing whitewashing services for well known bitcoin scammers.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: hey there asseteers!
gribble: User 'cazalla', with keyid 21B9818A468F4AD0, fingerprint FD9FB3F73B5AE8499A02F0C521B9818A468F4AD0, and bitcoin address 1cKiW19Jc2aQ2sdKGkkEkGnbVZT8kKLAK, registered on Wed Feb 26 07:21:04 2014, last authed on Tue Dec 2 16:05:59 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=cazalla . Currently not authenticated.