mircea_popescu: show teh us how dumping's actually done. what, dja have any idea how long i pined for an opportuniy to play the easy side of this game ?
mircea_popescu: i will dump all my bitcoin, on the gavin fork.
mircea_popescu: at best gavin will manage to crush the gavin-bitcoin to whatever it was in 2012 and that's that.
mircea_popescu: jurov that 99% figure is mostly a joke. look at the exchanges as they are, think what even a 50k wall would do at say 30 usd per. how exactly are thjose 99% of miners going to finance operations for a week when their block reward is worth ~750 bux ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu, artifexd, other interested folks: http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/#comment-111218
mircea_popescu: you don't always get the maximal fun out of situations.
Apocalyptic: kakobrekla, as in you doubt the outcome will be in favour of b-a ?
mircea_popescu: and merchants accepting it will have to somehow finance the risk, too.
punkman: "There will not be another release cycle after Atheme 7.2. We encourage the community to fork Atheme and choose the most suitable forks to drive IRC forward. To this end, we will maintain Atheme 7.2 as a suitable base for forking until October 31, 2015, with all services terminating on October 31, 2016."
punkman: btw the irc services library used by freenode is EOL'd
jurov: and how it comes financially? suddenly the garzikcoin stop being excnaged for stuff cuz mircea said so?
mircea_popescu: from the perspective of the blockchain, the situation is identical to "what woud happen if 99% of miners turned their rigs off"
jurov: but if 99% of miners move to the fake chain, then it will take years till difficulty adjusts.. or we§d have to fork it and adjust anyway
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> heck, if 99% of miners move to the fake chain all the better - lower real diff for a while. << why if 99% of miners move onto that chain, would anyone ever move off?
mircea_popescu: but seriously, let's move all discussion on the article, otherwise it'll be hard to fish from logs later on
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i argue that all transmissions must be signed, if this is to be the thing it is really meant to be.
mircea_popescu: punkman forward secrecy is a one on one affair, mostly. the salt is supposed to implement as much as it's possible, and the lack of signatures.
mircea_popescu: if one doesn't buy into the entire "branding, even if or especially if before the fact" one's stuck with this. i don't mind it so much.
mircea_popescu: ftr, the car was called "a better horse buggy" originally.
rithm: if it scales verically like "interaction" with this thing creates a new "server" then that doesn't sound centralized
mircea_popescu: there is no "Server"
rithm: so the client is the server in this scenario or not? is it more p2p or not because i'm not seeing this definition in the language
mircea_popescu: artifexd am i editing the thing to reflect you're doin' it.
kakobrekla: i think the idea is to fix shit, not make it more beautiful.
artifexd: mircea_popescu> can you actually do it ? << There are mad amounts of detail to work out. That said, yes. I can do it.
asciilifeform: has no one actually -read- the thing ?
asciilifeform believes that the scheme as originally described is disastrously mistaken
artifexd: Would you like to discuss in here or keep it in the comments?
artifexd: I like it to the point of being willing to commit time to do it.
mircea_popescu: artifexd ya was just looking for you in the list lol
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, if anyone wants to make a pool for the purpose that can't hurt anything.
mircea_popescu: might as well mine the wall.
mircea_popescu: well no, switching doesn't. but mining in the dead chain takes as many resources as you're willing to throw at it.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla "upgrading" in the limited sense of building on a 1mb+ block.
mircea_popescu: if any of the asic farms is stupid enough to update (which is sort-of doubt, but hey, stupidity is bottomless) then they get their wish.
kakobrekla: vs the gpu miners :)
mircea_popescu: the fake coins they mine won't actually be worth anything once the fake chain dies. sort-of longest orphan block in history.
mircea_popescu: heck, if 99% of miners move to the fake chain all the better - lower real diff for a while.
mircea_popescu: for as long as there's one miner that doesn't, however...
mircea_popescu: if a majority of miners accepts the fork they still have to relay and mine all my txn.
mircea_popescu: anyway, includes a pastebin of the #freenode discussion etc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from the fertile union of a very strong "must succeed" ideology and a very narrow "math is hard" cluelessness.
asciilifeform: from whence come the mass of idiot coin, though
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, they're naturally that clueless.
kakobrekla: ascii did with the fracking.
asciilifeform: the 'gaw' crap boggles my mind. how is this shit even still possible.
mircea_popescu: and, of course, much like in the case of the "ethereum short" nobody actually bought, here is me looking for counterparties willing to buy gavin-bitcoins on the understanding that the transaction will only be valid on the gavin fork, but not in actual bitcoin.
asciilifeform vaguely recalls ben_vulpes having wangled together an autobuilder of sorts
asciilifeform: list, yes. wasn't sure about the tree itself
mircea_popescu: wasn't he maintaining the list an errything ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu: which one(s) of you is even doing the merges, anyway ?
asciilifeform is sitting on a shameful quantity of unfinished patches for their apparatus
mircea_popescu: i dun imagine they'll pretend like they "tested" it in less than a few months, so there's still a season i'd guess.
mircea_popescu: now if mod6 an' ben_vulpes + whoever else can contribute get snappy with the actual foudnation work, the beheading of gavin's pretense will come exactly in time for a smooth transition to a muchly superior alternative.
asciilifeform: and bring in the naturally-occurring but recalcitrant chumpers.
asciilifeform: synthetic chumps (btc stolen by usg organs) is pumped into eth
asciilifeform: just as in hydraulic fracturing, foreign substance is pumped into the earth to liberate the goods,
asciilifeform: i dare to suggest a possible term for another thing the ethereum folks do; 'chump fracking'
TomServo: Only gone down from the 27,000ish peak around Sep 1
kakobrekla: i doubt they will get resupplied tbh
Apocalyptic: they will be resupplied as long as derps have money I fear
kakobrekla: oh wow they had 8 POC implementations so far.
Apocalyptic: wasn't it "ethereum" ?
asciilifeform: 'etherium'
mircea_popescu: wtf was the buterin scamcoin called, eleuterium ?
kakobrekla: well it was discovered by coming out of the ground naturally.
kakobrekla: >Oil does not come out of the ground naturally,
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: do we have to bring our own pitchforks or will they be provided for us?
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/oil-theory/
kakobrekla: heh, i sent some ppl to check the logs sometimes, mostly i get back "what language is this, english?"
mircea_popescu: bitstein thanks for the pastebin.
jurov: BingoBoingo thestringpuller : qntra shares transferred
kakobrekla: yes, the power of coincidence is great power.
mircea_popescu: except they shoved a 46 in there at the end for the first week of 2015. which, of course, includes three days of 2014.
mircea_popescu: NEVER throughout the year has it been over 45
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla check out the power and influence of bitbet. so, there's http://bitbet.us/bet/962/obama-approval-rating-over-45-in-2014/
TomServo: What would Gavin be referring to when he says "the reference implementation"?
mircea_popescu: meanwhile gay men have for one thing five to ten times as many legit other gay men to meet, and looser dudes make up "men going alone" clubs instead of deciding they're now gay and the gay community must turn itself into mcdonalds to accomodate them.
mircea_popescu: and will raise hell if you dare observe that they're the same stinky, unbearable, impossible idiots that men think they are, pretending lesbianism is not a magical cure.
mircea_popescu: not only are your odds of finding a like minded soul vanishingly tiny, but you're deluged in all the fat idiots who think that they may "hate men", as something that's at their disposal, and it's your job and obligation to humor them, because "you're different".
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me... it must suck to be a lesbian. i mean a real one, the whatever, .4% demographic.
BingoBoingo: Takes time to get the venom ready. There's bound to be other stories to dip in the venom when its ready.
mircea_popescu: anyway, too lazy to go into the 2012-2013 collection of "media" derpage.
mircea_popescu: clearly they infringe on facebook intellectual propertahs.
mircea_popescu: i really don't think they should be called books properly.
assbot: Love how Zuckerberg talks about books as if they are funky new app he has discovered. From /thetimes http://t.co/rum1YGcSt8
mircea_popescu: should be standard practice for any article mentioning fiat. the msm is doing it to us, obviously we'll be doing it to them. let teh public pick up the pieces.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo if you add another whole paragraph about how dollars are inherently unsafe, used by terrorists and probably not going to "make it", culled directly from the idiocy spewed by idiots about btc
mircea_popescu: i guess the largest shock to noobs is swallowing the actual history of mp-*, as it was.
pete_dushenski: surprisingly close to the ~500 btc ipo
mike_c: your estimation was $50 / hr. I doubt that is the case.
pete_dushenski: mike_c don't suppose there's been any bidders for wol eh ?
pete_dushenski: heh i like the sound of that
mike_c: the new analyzer will tell you how much to bet based on your input of % of event happenning.
mike_c: well, the "correct" amount to bet depends on what you think the % chance of the event happening is.
pete_dushenski: the optimised tangent always encourages what is imo over-betting
pete_dushenski: can't say it terribly influenced my decisions, or if it did, not for the better.
pete_dushenski: mike_c so anything exciting in the pipeline for btcalpha ?
pete_dushenski: those years in the trenches...
pete_dushenski: lol this is the random trilema post that just popped up for me: http://trilema.com/2013/any-questions/
jurov: it's the same as last month?
mike_c: yw. a few bitcents in the tip jar :)
nubbins`: in fact, #2 from the publicly-available ones :D
TomServo: nubbins`: if you're still wanting to see your work in the wild, here you go: http://i.imgur.com/EAXAWHL.jpg
thestringpuller: sir nubbins` returns for the btc apocalypse
asciilifeform: would you buy an x86 pc box and use it with the factory-installed softs? no? then why would you do this with router ?
asciilifeform: (this gets you over the arguably low bar of having the router be no more exploitable than the machine(s) it is connected to...)
punkman: or rather PCI dsl modem
assbot: C3TV -Too Many Cooks - Exploiting the Internet-of-TR-069-Things ... ( http://bit.ly/1HDc671 )
punkman: http://www.routercheck.com/2014/08/14/major-problems-tr-069/ http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2014/31c3_-_6166_-_en_-_saal_6_-_201412282145_-_too_many_cooks_-_exploiting_the_internet-of-tr-069-things_-_lior_oppenheim_-_shahar_tal.html
assbot: The Five Stages of Collapse: Survivors' Toolkit - Dmitry Orlov - Google Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1xMOThs )
asciilifeform: quotes the dollar officially at 12 bolivars. meanwhile, black rate is ~17 << mega-lol!! >> at one point, iirc, 'vanity' exchange rate of soviet ruble was 12 per usd.
mircea_popescu: o look, another one lol.
mircea_popescu: maybe it's first past the pole.
kakobrekla: wai you get all the fun
mircea_popescu: but they're not stopping.
assbot: The Ron Paul Institute for Peace and Prosperity : Blowback on the Saudi Border – Senior General Killed ... ( http://bit.ly/1BCgjnJ )
decimation: http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/january/05/blowback-on-the-saudi-border-senior-general-killed/ << us isn't dumping oil, saudi arabia is, and not doing too well
mircea_popescu: http://cachecdn.cdnhost2000xl.com/tthumbs/2/27145.jpg and a vignette to help the thinking process along.
mircea_popescu: so practical macroeconomics exercise. venezuela, which is in the shitter, quotes the dollar officially at 12 bolivars. meanwhile, black rate is ~170.
BingoBoingo: Except now there are too many places in college for the kids, because people dun wanna go no moar.
mircea_popescu: <assbot> New lie detector relies on full-body suit for better accuracy | ITworld << makes me think... most dudes think they know fucking...
mircea_popescu: take a week to work in say a supermarket or something. the helplessness of common postmodern man (well, mostly woman) is impressive.
mircea_popescu: decimation there's a fundamental difference between those who use tools and those who make tools.
cazalla: not the app one you download but the paid monthly service, i thought it was more recent but perhaps i am wrong, i bow to your knowledge as a pokemon master
cazalla: thestringpuller, didja know even pokemon has cloud storage for pokemans with the pokemon bank
asciilifeform: decimation: await the next version, resembling 'iron maiden' ?
decimation: http://www.itworld.com/article/2864675/new-lie-detector-relies-on-fullbody-suit-for-better-accuracy.html << lol these guys want to sell gimp suits for hazing usg employees
decimation: svetlana: why doesn't someone fix the 'problem' with cloaks by re-writing ircd into something sane?
thestringpuller: i hate it more than "The cloud"
thestringpuller: "The internet of things this, and that"
thestringpuller: "We are ready for the internet of things"
BingoBoingo: So this internet of things... What the fuck is not intuitive enough about how a stove works already.
mircea_popescu: poor kako. everyone sucks, and then he gets depressed and teh woman offers to suck him...
mircea_popescu: "the smaller sum of 18,000 BTC missing presents a still more onerous obstacle than Mt Gox faced in absolute terms as that many Bitcoin are largely unavailable to most people at any price denominated in national currency."
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller for a selected few.
mircea_popescu: "BitStamp surpassed Mt Gox is trading volume in 2013, largely on the strength of its not being Mt Gox."
kakobrekla: the wallet is cold only if its empty, doh.
mike_c: I will get 0 comments and have no idea how bad the problem is.
mike_c: that is a much bigger problem on the wiki. For you, you will get x comments and know there are 10x problems
mircea_popescu: afaik it works fine, but then again how do i know.
mike_c: of which it is neither
mircea_popescu: they're not worth 5mn.
BingoBoingo: On Coindesk of course. Never on their official site
BingoBoingo hopes these sutures heal without much of a scar.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, it is this years's Derp spores beginning to emerge from the damp log.
svetlana: I'll get someone to write a good guide on the bitcoin wiki (I'm not good at this subject and I found someone who is better)
svetlana: isn't vpn distributed? I'm rather surprised at that reaction
asciilifeform: when the moon is just waning.
asciilifeform: at any rate, i did bring it up in here on a few occasions. but did append the gotcha, 'not ready for battlefield because little time' - which is presently true
asciilifeform: why mircea_popescu had to ruin my surprise gift to the fine folks of #b-a. i was gonna roll that thing out with cardano.
asciilifeform: anyone who wants to receive the current pubmessage snapshot can start listening at any point, and will eventually end up with it
asciilifeform: in my 'error coding' scheme, the station transmits at all times.
asciilifeform: the other nice thing re: udp is that a connectionless/stateless protocol frustrates traffic analysis very well.
asciilifeform: no need to keep track of ips, and to marry the notion of 'origin address'
asciilifeform: the hello-in-udp-mtu lives happily on existing linux/commonplace archs
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate the purity of your vision, but i'd rather have this work on current hardware. what else is there ?
mircea_popescu: " that when wot is taken seriously by intelligent and resourceful enemies, it will be rather late." << so how late is it /
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: anyone learn the fate of nanotube yet ? <<< no. i was waiting for some kind of logs to surface, but seems nothing.
mircea_popescu: mike_c: and it is not unusual for it to catch humans << on the plus side, i get about 10-20 pieces of spam a day, which are pretty much all handcranked. the attepts are well in the 1000s/hr. on the - side, occasionally people complain about having to redo a comment / having lost a comment in the depths.
mircea_popescu: tomorro is another day!
mircea_popescu: not to mention the poor showling last year.
mircea_popescu: <mike_c> Microsoft shut down their captcha service, which was causing that problem on the eulorum wiki. << YOUR PAIN IS YOUR OWN PUNISHMENT
mircea_popescu: <ascii_modem> that or he read the log and picked the parts he liked << i dunno where i stole it from tbh.
asciilifeform feels mind utterly boggled at this offer of 'help' of the 'have you tried plugging it in' variety.
mircea_popescu: the parcimonious approach is to regard you as grossly unqualified to comment on that topic.
svetlana: I am from another channel where wc- was complaining about the issue. Couldn't suggest anything but not perceiving cloak as the solution, to him.
svetlana: If the details that you have are not sufficient (which is somewhat often the case), we have to apply discretion and judgment to figure out who it is (before +i, it might make sense to use +r and see if it makes things stop).
asciilifeform: these reply with N bytes for each spoofed byte sent, hence term 'amplification'
asciilifeform: svetlana: perhaps you know it under another name. attacker sends spoofed packets to a series of machines, usually misconfigured routers and embedded systems of other kinds
BingoBoingo: routers, servers, the occasional 10 kilo wordpress sites
svetlana: asciilifeform: It is not rather dumbly from a single IP, is it?
svetlana: Instead, get affected people to check their router logs and get more details about the attack.
asciilifeform: what is the suggested solution (other than '+i' which was discussed at one point, bitter pill)
svetlana: I might suggest not using cloaks as the solution here. Using cidr entries in access list, and /cs why, it's quite trivial to look through them. We don't want to "teach" whoever is ddosing here that -- he'd keep doing his thing.
kakobrekla: [02:25:49] <svetlana> it is rather trivial to look through cloaks (chanserv can, and anyone can query chanserv with various cidrs and ask whether people match).
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo will enjoy my comment on trilema then (when that site is back...)
BingoBoingo: Well, at least I published the thing so it will be visible eventually.
BingoBoingo: Does anyone know if https://blockchain.info/address/1JoktQJhCzuCQkt3GnQ8Xddcq4mUgNyXEa is the Bitstamp cold address?
kakobrekla: "sir, we are out of potato, but we can offer some fresh shit. its on the house."
asciilifeform fesses up that he worked on it, on and off, for some months, so as to have a 'killerapp' application for cardano when the latter is unwrapped
asciilifeform will then end up stuck with doing actual werk
asciilifeform wrestles with dilemma of whether he should open up his 90 or so percent implementation of mircea_popescu's RFP
assbot: Logged on 19-12-2014 03:23:35; asciilifeform: i dare to invoke the 'parachute theorem' and say now, that when wot is taken seriously by intelligent and resourceful enemies, it will be rather late.
asciilifeform: anyone learn the fate of nanotube yet ?
asciilifeform: e.g., an adder, a shifter, uart, 500 other kinds of part.
asciilifeform: mostly they hook up vendor 'library' parts together. these usually (though not always) correspond to miniature 'islands' of asic present on the chip
asciilifeform: and of the LUTs
asciilifeform: folks doing actual work with fpga make very light use of the general-purpose routing matrix
asciilifeform: this is because the entire fpga concept, as imagined by n00bs to the subject, does not actually work.
asciilifeform: punkman: one can attempt to work with just the synthesis toolchain (no escape from it) and use netlists of 'raw' logic - i.e. simple universal constructs like 'nand gate'. the result - go try it - a very simple kindergarten-level circuit fills up the entire chip, with glacial performance (gate delays measured in msec!)
asciilifeform: punkman: [fpga thread] would MIPS be easier than x86? or does the problem lie in connecting the thing to outside world (fast RAM, peripherals, etc) << problem is that you can't make so much as a barrel shifter on any extant fpga without using a closed turd from the vendor - actually, two turds: one in the logic library part itself, other - the synthesis toolchain
mike_c: that's the problem. sloths can't defeat spammers. cats can.
thestringpuller: how could a sloth ever be the face of evil
mike_c: diana_coman: the wiki is a "fan site". not run by minigame.
assbot: To would-be auditors: don't play the charade of checking if exchanges are solvent once every few months; real-time crypto-auditing or GTFO.
diana_coman: btw, out of curiosity: why is this eulorom site apart entirely from mingame.bz? I thought eulora was essentially made by minigame so I don't quite follow the different sites/lack of links or is there something I'm missing?
diana_coman: but then again, that might be just me, I admit it
diana_coman: on some days I admit I might send the cats and dogs and site to all hell and as a result not post
diana_coman: I did raise the problem on eulora channel
diana_coman: and there you came asking, so it worked
diana_coman: true, because I thought that well, if there is some interest in the thing, they will come asking on eulora /irc and then we sort it out
mike_c: yes, but this is hardly a good solution for a wiki. you, for example, did not go yell at the owner
diana_coman: well, so you go and yell at the owner, lol
mike_c: the wiki
diana_coman: do you mean posting a link on trilema or on the wiki>
diana_coman: I mean: if you ask by default humans to prove, than it happens each and every time, really, no choice there
diana_coman: I confess I did not really look into it, but I'd rather look for some way to block bots away without the expense for actual humans - dunno, maybe some kind of timestamp check thing or something similar
diana_coman: uhm, so you're saying that effectively for all behaviour, there really ARE more bots (be it blood and flesh and bones ones) than people around on the internets
mike_c: they were creating hundreds of users and pages a day
mike_c: before that captcha the wiki was swarmed with thousands of fake accounts and pages
diana_coman: I never got why are people supposed to prove that they are not computers/bots, really