thestringpuller: This bet resolves no if Gavin's proposed hard fork is launched, and in succession achieves 51% consensus of the network. This bet resolves yes, if the current Bitcoin fork keeps 51% consensus of the network, or if Gavin's proposed hard fork is never launched.
undata: the whole ACL system is just a bunch of ad hoc ideas
irdial: Presumably a "default file permission on creation" of any new file would fix it, then you would be forced to set the executable bit every time.
mircea_popescu: clearly "executing" an archive is not the same as decompressing it.
mircea_popescu: but really, the problem is folders=files and execution = opening
mircea_popescu: contrarywise, if your idea is that one needs the priviledge to make files executable, then this situation where a file is modified and stays executable makes 0 sense.
mircea_popescu: well if the idea is that "he who has the authority to modify a file always has the authority to also execute it" then "executable" bit makes 0 sense.
undata: the latter is more aligned with what actually happens, the file doesn't execute itself, something invokes it
undata: yep, the former has sane security consequences
mircea_popescu: if your philosophy is that the file modification is what you defend against.
mircea_popescu: undata i think it'd be better that the execute bit gets trashed every time the file is modified.
undata: what do you think would be better, a sort of stream header that indicates the nature of the bits to come?
asciilifeform: or the couple of 'bank transfer' ones from slightly earlier.
asciilifeform: ^ perhaps this, and not the imaginary radioactive mushrooms.
asciilifeform: observe, plenty of uranium ore on, e.g., 'ebay.' but no refined metal (depleted or, srsly what do you expect - the other kind)
thestringpuller: the "what fraction of heat loss is from breathing or will we 'insulate' that as well." made water come out of my nose
asciilifeform: 'tell me again about the waters of your home world...'
asciilifeform: back to the 'radioactive mushroom' - anyone could, in principle, leave a 'wanted ad' to the effect of wishing to purchase $bannedobject anywhere he wants
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there are multiple reasonably well-documented corpses of thieves, poachers, metal hunters, killing themselves on rtg
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: it wasn't a reactor. it was a russian rtg.
thestringpuller: anyone ever read the story about the guy who fell asleep next to a reactor cause he was cold
asciilifeform: that's easily worth as many 'jail points' from penal code as the bootleg fireworks of r. ver
BingoBoingo: Well... in USSA who but Preet can know what crime is. What I can see though is that was order #21874 and #21876 was the very last entered
jurov: poor dude he just wanted the uranium to make some nanowire clothing to keep him warm
asciilifeform: seems like it does require a crown contract attesting to the fact of use in a particular product, along with statement of disposal arrangements
BingoBoingo: <gribble> #21874 || darsie || BUY 1.0 1 kg uranium @ 100 EUR || e.g. counterweight, projectile, radiation shield. I'm not sure if that's a reasonable price since an aircraft company had trouble finding a dump where they could get rid of some counterweights. I'm open for other amounts or some thorium metal/compounds, highly radioactive stuff like mushrooms from Chernobyl and a ~1 kg piece of tungsten at/near theoretical density. <<
BingoBoingo: Lemme pull up and order from the order feed real quick...
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if -otc weren't as dead as it appears to have been for the past year or two, i imagine it could be possible for the buggers to set up a 'controlled buy' of some contraband or other, embroiling -otc, and spinning up nanotube as 'a dpr'
jurov: http://phys.org/news/2015-01-super-insulated-indoor.html had to double check it isn't the onion
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: not that richilieu couldn't cough up the proverbial 'six lines by the hand of the honest man'
assbot: Logged on 08-01-2015 17:32:25; mircea_popescu: but, fair warning to the ones still left inside the beast : nano, prior to his vacation, was a law abiding economy teacher, a bright kid and a very loyal and honorable fellow all around.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> aha, he will be 'on vacation' until shows up rolled in a cage through wash.,d.c streets. << I believe it is the "Southern District of Manhattan" nao
ben_vulpes: not in portland, TomServo. here, they tax you for runoff.
assbot: postdocs - Whether to tell his prospective employer that a new male post doc opposes affirmative action for women in academia? - Academia Stack Exchange ... ( http://bit.ly/1DqvrZA )
asciilifeform: http://academia.stackexchange.com/questions/35154/whether-to-tell-his-prospective-employer-that-a-new-male-post-doc-opposes-affirm << found this by pure accident. linking here just for mircea_popescu's butterfly collection.
mike_c: betting early on bitbets makes sense and betting late makes sense. you are cutting out 50% of the time it makes good sense to bet.
TomServo: thestringpuller: thanks
TomServo: ben_vulpes: was it portland where they were fining people for catching rainwater?
ben_vulpes: http://truth-out.org/news/item/28390-deep-questions-arise-over-portland-s-corporate-water-takeover << rot in the local socialist paradise begins to creep to the surface
Mashuri: Thanks for the !up but I'm just lurking. I have a WoT account if needed for later. :)
thestringpuller: mike_c: Jan. 23rd we're getting there.
assbot: Working alongside the team from San Francisco, progress towards redeployment is strong. Huge thank you to for your confidence and patience.
assbot: We are fully rebuilding our systems from the ground up so that customers can use /Bitstamp with full confidence and trust.
mod6: cazalla: The Bitcoin Foundation will commit to publishing a "follow along at home install guide" with the first the signed first release.
cazalla: apologies for the diarrheatic driblee. back to bed, needed that water
asciilifeform: (they appear to consist largely of the same two or three things, with slight variations)
asciilifeform noticed recently that there are suspiciously many claimed 'plug in replacements' for truecrypt bouncing around
asciilifeform: ^ no comment on quality or even whether it works at all
mod6: but currently, that's what we're testing on. i have an medium ec2 instance im testing on, and a few other smaller vm's.
mod6: i left that out of the guide as I don't wish to presume which environment it should be built on.
mod6: you basically need to do these for that:
mod6: I've walked through that guide with a guy locally here, and there are a few minor changes that I need to make to it this month. I'll get to it when I can, but mostly, it's exactly what you need. Aside from installing the dependancies.
asciilifeform still finds the image peculiar, of nanotube having advanced warning of his 'vacation'
mod6: I have written a guide on how to patch the reference implementation. is that one too complex?
ben_vulpes: <cazalla> [] may i recommend a step by step tutorial for the borderline retarded such as myself who have the resources but not the know how to run it, provide a step by step diy and it will grow << grand idea
mircea_popescu: unsung heroes, that's exactly it. "if the bot weren't down nobody would have noticed".
mircea_popescu: yeah, if the bot weren't down nobody would have noticed.
asciilifeform: assuming 'vacation' - at least he pulled the pin, rather than allowed the motherland to pass into enemy hands
kakobrekla: if the bot werent down nobody would have noticed
mircea_popescu: but, fair warning to the ones still left inside the beast : nano, prior to his vacation, was a law abiding economy teacher, a bright kid and a very loyal and honorable fellow all around.
mircea_popescu: if there's multiples lying becomes that more difficult and less valuable anyway.
mircea_popescu: maybe if it convincingly performs for a while the two wots can be bridged later on (how such a thing could be done in principle has been discussed a few times) and that'll be a great step towards de facto decentralization with central servers and that's that.
mircea_popescu shrugs. either way, that pie's cooked.
mircea_popescu: i don't know that guy is anybody, outside of social engineering everyone. he doesn't have a rating from nano, the notion they know each other is improbable on the face, and if in fact this were a job you'd fully expect a bunch of unknowns talking authoritatively in such manner.
asciilifeform hasn't the faintest notion of this being true or false
undata: clearly the guy had to be stopped... he was running an irc channel!
mircea_popescu: what with all the stuff being build atop it and so on.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure that in realpolitik terms this was the more important use of gribble.
mircea_popescu: me either.
mircea_popescu: the only unreasonably safe assumption.
mircea_popescu: well... perhaps reasonable's not the right word. safe.
mircea_popescu: yes, nano's not been heard from, the only reasonable assumption is something asciilifeform'd say.
undata: I find I have more alertness throughout the day without
undata: I actually just gave the stuff up (again)
TomServo: I don't think that'll happen soon enough. Maybe a modified ircd with a bolted on gribble in the meantime?
undata read the gossipd logs; maybe that will have to save us
undata: is there an alternate auth route?
assbot: Daniel P. Barron on Twitter: "@Beautyon_ Unless you're in the #WebOfTrust, you aren't a "real person." It doesn't matter what your "needs" are. http://t.co/zu7UA4VkBd" ... ( http://bit.ly/1yFD5NV )
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron couldn't have been for that reason, i recall the guy following me on twitter, back before the antonoderp murder.
mircea_popescu: make a container or w/e they call it, just have people run it.
TomServo: Is there a preferred platform?
mircea_popescu: not only will IT grow, but the diy capabilities of the right people will grow, which is significantly more valuable.
mircea_popescu: cazalla: may i recommend a step by step tutorial for the borderline retarded such as myself who have the resources but not the know how to run it, provide a step by step diy and it will grow << he has a point there, ben & mod6
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller just some futures.
thestringpuller: whoa mircea_popescu is from the future
TomServo: Sure - with you there, it just seems incredibly hard to really 'prove' intent to leave.
mircea_popescu: now, it's all fine and dandy to all agree on how teh us is the empire of evil. however, the notion that they'd err on the side of not letting anyone in is plain ridoinculous.
mircea_popescu: the uncomfortable reality that he has neither is obviously something he's not willing to confront, and so it has to be about how bad teh us customs & immigration is.
mircea_popescu: that's always been there, for foreigners, which people who renounce a citizenship become.
TomServo: Pretty minor gripe but, "under a regulation that requires he prove his intent to depart the U.S." - how does one prove that?
mircea_popescu: this guy was never sober. literally. you know what i mean, that drunk functionality of the hardcore ukrainian ?
mircea_popescu: so when i first landed here i kept a hotel room for about a week. my across the hall neighbour was this ukrainian dude. we met in the elevator and well, at the time the ukr stuff was just blowing up and so i was curious, and he was as happy as anything to speak to someone... wise.
thestringpuller: Perhaps the movie about asciilifeform and young buck thestringpuller teaming up to sell BTC as gangstas runnin the street will become a reality
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller doing anything out of the ordinary carries a higher sentence than everything else in there, you've not noticed yet ?
mircea_popescu: you know, the original somethingawful/buttcoin threads about how bitcoiners are mentally retarded didn't come out of pure malice. they came out of the simple fact of the matter : the early people involved are struggling with severe mental disabilities.
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: so apparently being caught selling too many BTC here in the states carries a higher sentence than dealing drugs
mircea_popescu: i dunno that there's anything but comic relief in keeping track of ver's activities.
mircea_popescu: except he did that at a time when they were worth cents to the dollar, and they're long gone.
mircea_popescu: also, the passports in question don't ever cost that much. he's pulling a kakobrekla's car trick on the value of bitcoin that could have been. by the same measure, his donated hundreds of millions of dollars to the scam foundation.
asciilifeform: retarded, sure. just wondered if there was some actual plus to the st kitts thing. because i distinctly recall that 'passports of convenience' are mostly good as wall decorations and nothing more.
mircea_popescu: would have been enough for the rest of his life.
mircea_popescu: for the record, for the unassuming individual capable of normal socialisation (ie, score a gf if one wants a gf) about 1k usd a year is plenty in argentina.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: why would anyone buy the st kitts passport described in the article? 400k usd would get you a fairly comfortable 2 yrs in Ar or the like (or however long it takes there to get passported)
mircea_popescu: anyway, the guy claims he was shremed and it's all okay.
asciilifeform is evidently not the proverbial alert reader
nubbins`: surely your mind will be put at ease then
nubbins`: maybe one of these years, on one of your 10 vacation days, you can go to the lock store and buy the deluxe padlock for the cage you've been slowly building around yourself
nubbins`: you screw enough toothpaste caps, boy, they're sure to notice
asciilifeform: a: 'orcs came and burned my village to the ground' b: 'shuddup, enough whinging, do something to improve yer lot'
nubbins`: as if those from all times would not rather bellyache than do something to improve their situation
asciilifeform: nubbins`: or as if ancestors did not whine in pubs rather than irc
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: https://www.random.org/faq/#Q1.3 (and esp. no. 4) - decide for yourself
nubbins`: also mildly curious to know how much time your grandfather spent on irc shooting the shit and complaining about how shitty his wife was
nubbins`: how much was your grandfather's monthly cell phone and internet bill
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: is the process described on random.org viable?
thestringpuller: cazalla: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rnxw6/old_post_saying_the_bitstamp_hack_was_coming/ << i think i can confirm this
thestringpuller: how in the fuck does a pennyles german come here 65 years ago and build more in a decade or two than his own grandchildren could hope to build in a life time << a phenomenon bitcoin will see as supply slowly decreases
cazalla: how in the fuck does a pennyles german come here 65 years ago and build more in a decade or two than his own grandchildren could hope to build in a life time
cazalla: it all shrinks, i grew up visiting my opa's backyard on the weekends, spending week days in my own parent's smaller backyard, what do i have for my own son? next to fucking nothing, no-one has kids, no-one has familiies, no-one can afford shit, land of opportunity my fucking ass
cazalla: you would never think in one's own life time that you would see everything you were told was australia, go down the fucking drain
mike_c: there's another 14 btc for bitbet investors. maybe this bet will spark a rally in the stock.
cazalla: i want their fucking heads
cazalla: and their own grandchildren have fucking less
cazalla: these fucking mongrels
assbot: And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda ~ John Williamson - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/14yQQBz )
cazalla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E22gszljklc all one ever wanted was option to burn own house down without police turning up to arrest, maybe grow some veg/fruit before dying, can't even do that these days down under, clinging to RMS Bitcoin.. sometimes wonder if better to jump overboard into ice water and be done with it
cazalla: When you're not there
cazalla: "When you're finished being self-obsessed..Then let me know..All my crushes are about you"
cazalla: even Shredder needed the foot
cazalla: may i recommend a step by step tutorial for the borderline retarded such as myself who have the resources but not the know how to run it, provide a step by step diy and it will grow
cazalla: Gavin talks of times of peace for all, and then prepare for war (fork). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlKnUfGvCJg
assbot: Best son? 7-year-old boy rides tricycle carrying his drunken father home in Yizhou city, Guangxi, Jan.6 (web) http://t.co/L5Xu2jJyiX
BingoBoingo: Still it's worth giving people with something to say directions to a place they can matter.
davout: BingoBoingo: ty! the beautyon guy has been around for a while iirc
BingoBoingo: mircea_popecu / hanbot https://twitter.com/Beautyon_ is prolly going to try to navigate Freenode and contact you while I sleep. If they disappoint... My bad.
BingoBoingo: "Growing Pains" could be worse. at least it isn't "Harry and the Hendersons"
davout: i saw that when i tried to explore this deeds thing, but i also understood (from a log bit I can't seem to find) that the thing has been/is being re-implented two or three times
davout: the earlier convo about gossipd was pretty interesting
mircea_popescu: but anyway, that's all the excitement i can take for today. later fellow cultists!
mircea_popescu: at least not keeping btc in there.
BingoBoingo: Worst part? his wife wanted to keep her pecan balls safe so unlocked the safe in a room full of everybody.
cazalla: what did you expect? it's TV and booze, what else does a bogan from the bush have in australia?
mircea_popescu: cazalla ok, well, here's some ideas : his ears would be bleeding ; his arms'd have fallen off as he holds that thing wrongly ; the heat transferred to the barrel is probably enough to melt it ; he's fired more bullet weight than the child.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> fucking derp from the lumber yard, you know, here's my machinegun drill. i drill all day with it. lalala. << I saw opposite discipline over Xmas. Cousin's family keeping the weapons safe within window line of sight
cazalla: i was promised heat seaking missles and by god i will have them
mircea_popescu: fucking derp from the lumber yard, you know, here's my machinegun drill. i drill all day with it. lalala.
cazalla: my knowledge of discharging weapons extends to nothing more than rise of the triad and counterstrike
cazalla: well, we can't have them in australia, so you know..
mircea_popescu: cazalla srsly, who the fuck fires that many bullets ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> this in case anyone wonders why i "have to" call gavin an idiot. same reason you have to beat the donkey. only way it groks. << People don't deal with donkeys, they make Abbos sell them mules.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: If they could math gavin wouldn't have been derping recycled blocks in his hellchain
mircea_popescu: this in case anyone wonders why i "have to" call gavin an idiot. same reason you have to beat the donkey. only way it groks.
mircea_popescu: i did leave them a splendid link to that great scene in miller's crossing, but i guess when you're an idiot it's easy to miss the more subtle messages.
mircea_popescu: cazalla if this ain't nipping in the bud what is ?
cazalla: srs why not just nip it in the bud, check out my gardening series on the topic of nipping weeds in the bud https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjwwVsSEXUo
BingoBoingo: Because... we know the people doing tx ping pong and filling up blocks
BingoBoingo: I don't think he can propose until March, then Fork block before may.
BingoBoingo: He has to take at least a year or the Chicoms will nevwer mine for his chain
mircea_popescu: he's prolly aiming for putting it in by february, but won't actually have the tech resources to do it and rather than risk a total humiliatory blowout delay it to march
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There was a 50kb block Tonight!!!
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo nah, they don't have the time. gavin has to force it through rapidly, before blocks actually start regularly overflowing 1mn, because that's his only chance to get pools surrepetitiously mining v3 blocks while gavincoins not being massively doublespent.
cazalla: punkman, in the alpha technologies example, they are alleged to have used bitpay to cash out btc pre order money for their non-existent scrypt asics, all they needed to do was pay the rent on a shop front to get it going http://media.coindesk.com/2014/12/Dec-10-Alpha-Technology1700px-630x472.jpg
BingoBoingo: Well, yeah the idictments so far are a lot of qntra's meat.
mircea_popescu: journalism is about collecting facts and giving the parties the *opportunity* to comment. they don't want to take it, silence belies guilt.
mircea_popescu: cazalla if you get enough of those together, that list + a "we don't wanna say" from bp/cb is good enough.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, been there for a while apparently
mircea_popescu: how would they know ?
cazalla: i still wanna know how much fraud bitpay, coinbase etc are processing, they won't give me a clear cut response
mircea_popescu: add all the usg-side businesses together, see what you get. lotta hope, lotta hype, no receipts.
BingoBoingo: They better address that problem nao.
BingoBoingo: If some mother fucker can't make a change address indistinguishable from a destination address...
BingoBoingo: Fucking Electrum fingerprints the hell out of users.
mircea_popescu: if anyone's really bored feel free to look into the code.
mircea_popescu: and something tells me the new "optimized tx fee" code fingerprints the hell out of wallets/users.
mircea_popescu: "The IsStandard() rules have been almost completely removed for P2SH redemption scripts"
mircea_popescu: you don;t understand how the world works.
mircea_popescu: "The block index database will now hold headers for which no block is stored on disk, which earlier versions won't support."
cazalla: undata: my gf tells me I talk about code in my sleep, so what's the difference <<< while asleep, i would chuck my pillow into the baby's crib, grab the beside lamp and bring it in the bed, wake up screaming to call an ambulance, shit like that, she doesn't really miss my sleeping in otherside of the house
cazalla: mircea_popescu: I HAVE A GREY BEARD YO! <<< i noticed this.. while using tweezer to pluck the 10 or so grey hairs i began sporting this year, i thought well at least not as grey as mp
mircea_popescu: errything's getting done eventually. pretty much the only certainty of teh open model.
ben_vulpes: have i ever been aught but the court clown?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i like to imagine that you'll get the thing into a shape where i can ask nubbins` to print it << This
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i like to imagine that you'll get the thing into a shape where i can ask nubbins` to print it
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: ... to hear about how my slave time should qualify me for the satoshi codebase << ben_vulpes had better be qualified... just as artifexd had better be qualified for his part. << I enjoy that unlike onions disqualifying contributions are illuminated. Because not over engineered.
ben_vulpes: and further - what precisely you think my part is.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ... to hear about how my slave time should qualify me for the satoshi codebase << ben_vulpes had better be qualified... just as artifexd had better be qualified for his part.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: not terribly. castoffs from the pre-production days are always looking for a good home.
asciilifeform: arms, lifts, cameras, the like.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes will probably find it an interesting detail, that when i shopped around for certain parts for my pcb assembly apparatus, quite a few vendors turned up who offer bits'n'pieces of what was once the u.s. semiconductor industry
ben_vulpes: a wealth of knowledge that would have doomed me to a life in the suburbs under buzzing "lights".
ben_vulpes: automation thereof and design of subsystems for machines performing high voltage wafer binning.
ben_vulpes: but go on asciilifeform, i wait nigh on tenterhooks to hear about how my slave time should qualify me for the satoshi codebase maintenance.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: as for me, i mostly reverse-engineer things for money. but occasionally i build something to make other things more reverse-engineerable.
ben_vulpes: the topologically similar jobs - as miserable as you'd no doubt find my current line of employ.
ben_vulpes: the f1's - similarly unressurectable.
ben_vulpes: consider the rocketry a undergrad's self indulgence, not too different from your lisp machine obsessions.
asciilifeform: damn, who was it then
ben_vulpes: i'm having trouble imagining in which ways my mine work resembles spelunking through the satoshi codebase.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: last i recall, he cranked out nozzle skirts for maneuvering jets, for someone or other
asciilifeform: the funny thing is, that ben_vulpes almost certainly has considerably more truck with projects akin to the one in this thread, than i do
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The hard problem I see if why you are right about UDP, mircea_popescu right about not signing everything, etc is that the new world is complicated. We aren't slaying mere aztecs anymoar
ben_vulpes: magically condenses the codebase into something fathomable by mortals like i?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: all of these things
mircea_popescu: ah, the drama of building a new world with hands and however you call that little thing they mix mortar in
ben_vulpes: the magic line what rips out bdb?
asciilifeform: but have no time to do the logical step of actually telling ben_vulpes, mod6, jurov, mircea_popescu 'which screw to turn'
asciilifeform: i actually got as far as to marshal most of the thing into my head
asciilifeform: the sad thing is,
asciilifeform: what other gain possible from such a thing
asciilifeform: debug the only gain
ben_vulpes: what'd be the gain, asciilifeform?
asciilifeform: (there are several similar products)
ben_vulpes: not to the best of my knowledge, no.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: know if anyone ever tried getting the thing to build in, e.g., Cint ?
BingoBoingo: DANCE INTO THE FIRE
BingoBoingo: ^ At that deviation from filmed version I come cheaper and more authentic than actual Duran Duran
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: To my knowledge the irony of ironies is that ben_vulpes has a day job while I merely chse worms away from plants fruiting seasonal delights.
ben_vulpes: the satoshi codebase is so gorgeously well engineered that it kills gdb when approaching the wedge
asciilifeform wonders if the folks who were to bring out therealbitcoin.org engine of war in the blockwar, are also mired in day jobs
cazalla: chairman of the fucking board philip green
cazalla: ya know, every time ya make these story suggestions, it feels like that scene in Casino
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But the qntra is a global conglomerate. Too early for him to have peanut butter jelly time.
BingoBoingo drinking tonight and writing so waiting on sobriety to pull the trigger so that it matters.
cazalla: mircea_popescu, the someone that is writing that piece has a day job
mircea_popescu: btw, no qntra reporting on the blocks war thing ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So the terrapins that run your library... deny you journals. In this job I would take PDFs and basically be in charge of posting them online for students.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the reference is lost on me
undata longs for the day he can just sit down with some parenthesis and build a web thing that makes sense
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Those things the tortises disallow you.
mircea_popescu: then undata brain will be like "fuck that irl django, the asleep django' smuch better. must sleep moar."
undata: my gf tells me I talk about code in my sleep, so what's the difference