mircea_popescu: decimation: there's a deep hypocrisy here somewhere. apparently the usg entities who are involved with foreign surveillance couldn't possibly do their jobs if they were subject to 'regulation', but of course regular people trying to say, transact bitcoin, have no such reprieve << well, usg entities that deal in bitcoin do have such reprieve currently ?
decimation: cameron said "as technology develops, as the world moves on, we should try to avoid safehavens that can otherwise be created for terrorists to talk to each other"
mircea_popescu: it's the missing /n at en of otp giving all sorts of people hell
decimation: because the civil service would exclude access to that journalist's organization
mircea_popescu: PeterL obviously, the idiocy's own internal logic is its downfall. kinda the problem with all insanity.
mircea_popescu: decimation so noted. why don't they ?
decimation: note that there are people who could ask such questions
mircea_popescu: decimation i bet you the guy does not even currently ~KNOW~ that that's what's being discussed.
mircea_popescu: because that's why we go to school : so we can present our inquiries in such a way that OTHER PEOPLE can fucking grok wtf we want to know
decimation: because the implication of both cameron's and obama's answer is "no"
mircea_popescu: right. that should be the question. like that.
decimation: well, there's an issue of policy here, which is "is a us person allowed to communicate in a manner outside the possibility of usg interception?"
mircea_popescu: currently it bleeds into teh bash. dun wanna put an "echo "/n"" in there .
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla can there be a /n after each otp before encryption pls.
mircea_popescu: no, there shouldn't be a way to compel an answer. wtf ?!
mircea_popescu: that's not what you say. you say, "as you may be aware, because this so and so weakness in this part of the engine that does that and this, some drivers are so and so.". guy needs an intro.
mircea_popescu: this is roughly the equivalent of a company with 10k cab fleet having famously a weak alternator, and some reporter asking the CEO "what about the spinny trick ?"
decimation: yeah, actually from his rambling answer in the linked youtube (starting 45:30), there's very little evidence obama is even aware about the 'backdoor encryption' issue at all
mircea_popescu: aka, the typical american child of 2010.
mircea_popescu: lotta hay made out of how "the queen snubbed obama'. but the guy's just not very aware. which looked to me like a very very tired man that's being constantly pestered with advice and requirements by about 9 spinster women.
decimation: other than vague "we work with companies who also have families", which is exactly the same argument one gets from the local mobster I presume
mircea_popescu: ow shit i forgot the porny link.
decimation: or to be more precise, he failed to make remarks when asked the question
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 2 to 3 with note: Runs AssWoT, other cool stuff
PeterL: !rate kakobrekla 3 Runs AssWoT, other cool stuff
kakobrekla: ill do it for gettrust but not others
mircea_popescu: i want !gettrust to match any 32 char string as a key rather than a name
gribble: The operation succeeded.
PeterL: well, for gribble I have script that runs curl and gpg and pastes the result
kakobrekla: PeterL you are missing the link ?
mircea_popescu: 2.2. Bot makes a request to assbot via pm, of the format ;;gpg info --key <key currently
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla 2.1. Bot extracts the signature keyid through a process homologuous to gpg -v -v
mircea_popescu: the workload pain will probably be far exceeded by the cries of horror of the large hordes of nobodies that can no longer "innovate", in the sense their gunk is no longer included in repos
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2015 01:06:05; PeterL: having the same for voice would make it so our scripts from gribble would be easily convirtable
mircea_popescu: the current universe sucks anyway.
davout: it appears that if we want to make a proper apple pie from scratch we'll have to invent the universe first
assbot: Logged on 10-09-2014 11:54:21; mircea_popescu: other than proper cryptography for all foss, as discussed coupla days re gentoo overlays etc, i would fucking love for all lines of code to come with a counter.
mircea_popescu: this was a few weeks prior to the foundation's birth.
mircea_popescu: read the log thread in question tho, it's instructive. about how the point is to have code signed for having been read.
mircea_popescu: this occurs to you through having read the logs re the new github model / how the bitcoin foundation works or independently ?
decimation: there's a deep hypocrisy here somewhere. apparently the usg entities who are involved with foreign surveillance couldn't possibly do their jobs if they were subject to 'regulation', but of course regular people trying to say, transact bitcoin, have no such reprieve
assbot: Lawfare › Did Edward Snowden Call for Abolishing the Intelligence Community? ... ( http://bit.ly/1DNDqjF )
decimation: an amusing blog post http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/12/did-edward-snowden-call-for-abolishing-the-intelligence-community/
ben_vulpes: does anyone know when the transaction index was added?
mircea_popescu: (romania, unlike the us, actually keeps track of unserviced retail debentures)
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://www.dcnews.ro/apreciere-franc-elve-ian-razboi-ana-birchall-andreea-paul_464977.html << the swiss franc situation is a disaster for 100s of k's of idiot romanians who refinanced their home mortgages in swiss francs to try and capture a half of a percent less interest.
mircea_popescu: better off if half the "community" gets upset and moves on to collecting bugs or digging trenches or whatever, than if programming becomes a sort of passtime for trench diggers and worm afficionados.
mircea_popescu: tolerance is not the answer to any question worth asking, and it does not serve any purpose other than the general drowning in shit. which is not a desirable outcome in any case.
mircea_popescu: every time you see someone being stupid, piss on his face. this is important for them, and it's important for me.
mircea_popescu: it's not gratuitous, all this. it provides a very valuable signal, both to the inferior and to the superior.
mircea_popescu: but also why a certain attitude to ineptitude, from the "affirmative action", "wopmen in tech" "don't say nigger" all the way to stupidities like the equalitarism in freenode's policies is so very important. and why linus' "fuck you" is such a major thing.
decimation: well, apparently he confirmed that redhat was itself a ship of lemmings, looking for a lemming-king, and lennart was their man
mircea_popescu: kinda why stuff like the wot-foss i was discussing and even gossipd are so important
mircea_popescu: in any case, the entire lennart gambit is that "actually smart people won't be able to find each other in our sea of lemmings"
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Pidgin | the slang spoken by the locals in hawaii. people there do not speak hawaiian, they speak pidgin. to all my mainlander "friends": stop asking me fuckin stupid ...
mircea_popescu: giving inept infantrymen good horses doesn't create an elite cavalry regiment, it just creates a lot of injured horses. giving stupid people smart things doesn't make them smart. it'll just make a lot of broken smart things.
mircea_popescu: kinda why "adoption" is meaningless. i don't care for anyone to "adopt" anything i do. i might care if they change to fit to it. but otherwise, good fucking luck, there's no value in having a bunch of pacific islanders speak english as if it were the retarded language they spoke before.
mircea_popescu: anyway. there's nothing wrong with the people who didn't belong in foss in the first place finding their own way out, just like there's nothing wrong with the people who have no business in bitcoin finding their own way out.
mircea_popescu: "because they have no political power - and that's what you want, a lot of lemmings"
mircea_popescu: LP: Yeah, and this is great these are the people you want to have, because the vast majority of patches are actually of that kind. "
mircea_popescu: "LV: And you never see them again!
mircea_popescu: "in the most superficial level, some used -h for help, and others help. Its not uniform." << i can't name a tool that doesn't actually honor both.
mircea_popescu: course, the prospect is a lot grim-er for linux, but hey.
mircea_popescu: the lulz is so thick, considering the playbook is identically replayed with the gavincoin
mircea_popescu: uhm. happy campers = the entire foss community ?
mircea_popescu: ". Its growing all the time and now handles logging, device hotplugging events, networking, scheduled actions (like Cron) and much more. Almost every major Linux distribution has adopted Systemd, but there are still some unhappy campers out there,"
asciilifeform: 'In April was the jackal born, In June the rain-fed rivers swelled: 'Never in all my life,' said he, 'Have I so great a flood beheld.'' (orwell)
mircea_popescu: really ? because why, because the author is 5 yo ?
undata: well that lays bare the abstractions rolling around in that gourd, doesn't it
decimation: he tries to make a halfass technical argument against Upstart, and then whines that it's hard to make commits
decimation: something could be improved. They do a Git checkout, do one change, send you it and forget about it."
decimation: "So anyway, long story short, we came to the conclusion that Upstart is conceptually wrong, and it moved at glacial speeds. It also had the problem that Canonical tried very hard to stay in control of it. They made sure, with copyright assignment, that they made it really hard to contribute, but that’s what Linux actually lives off. You get these drive-by patches, as I would call them, where people see that something is broken, or
decimation: "So we started writing Systemd, and Red Hat didn’t like it at all. Red Hat management said: no, we’re going for Upstart, don’t work on that. So I said, OK, I’ll work on it in my free time. Eventually Red Hat realised that the problems we solved with Systemd were relevant, and were problems that needed to be solved, and that you couldn’t ignore them."
decimation: it's pretty obvious that the guy is a control freak who gets off on forcing his way
assbot: Watch Reid Wiseman's Vine "Even a 50kg mass does the same flipping maneuver. “Wild” to me! #science #SpaceVine" ... ( http://bit.ly/1Civp1R )
decimation: in some states (illinois) you must register all your guns with the state
mircea_popescu: but not the cars/cash.
ben_vulpes: <decimation> [] outgoing attorney general Holder wants to 'make a legacy' << just look for the "apparent pedophilia rate" as evidenced by "he had kiddie pr0nz" to go up.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there are at least a dozen honest online brokerages.
asciilifeform: and they all front-run.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: but i'm willing to believe that there are newer, more appealing chumpatrons
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the street where i live, just a year or so ago, was covered in ads '$7 / trade111!'
mircea_popescu: yes, much more than say the specialst pays (specialist doesn't pay). this is inconsequential.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the cheapo stock houses make a killing by charging xx usd / trade << iirc it's about a dime/a quarter per lot, which lot is usually 1k shares, which can easily be 100k usd.
mircea_popescu: essentially the principle being that you may find excellent "best actresses/cocksuckers", but not really "2nd best actresses/cocksuckers" in proportion.
asciilifeform: (the linked one is also beautifully illustrated, as it happens)
mircea_popescu: not sure if on the nets or not
mircea_popescu: there's a decent english one by de verre
decimation: I suppose the principle at work here is that once one has $x, one finds no portion of x to be 'spare'
mircea_popescu: buffett oft dwells on the matter : it's easy for krill to find a good meal, on account of being small. not so easy for whale.
mircea_popescu: there is no significant advantage to size, and a serious problem to it.
mircea_popescu: i dispute this theory.
asciilifeform: the cheapo stock houses make a killing by charging xx usd / trade
decimation: what are you gonna do? buy shares of wal-mart and hope they go up 100x?
mircea_popescu: you know you can buy stocks online these days on about 1k i think ?
decimation: but the basic bitch here reminds me of something like 'heavier things are heavier'
asciilifeform: decimation: another interesting fact re: usa is that rental properties are scarce to nonexistent when you walk out of the high-density areas
decimation: if living off gov't checks anyway, wouldn't a trailer park somewhere stretch the bezzlars?
mircea_popescu: not so in the country
mircea_popescu: the poor flock to the city since the times of rabelais for the same reason : you can eat without working there.
decimation: the other amusing point that the article fails to bring up: if the 'poor' must pay to live in a dense shitty city, why not move to the country?
mircea_popescu: apparently wikipedia deleted a page discussing the "forward" as a generic name for socialist publications after someone mocked obama for it.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for kakobrekla from 3 to 3 with note: wot steward
asciilifeform: at any rate, the article is intensely lulzy
ben_vulpes: "newspaper" in the trad'l sense of "town rag" still exists in various municipalities. "grey lady", not so much.
asciilifeform: then what newspaper remains in usa ?
mircea_popescu: the hoods part, okay.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform washington post = newspaper in the sense projects = neighbourhoods.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell manamex you're joining channels and then applying your cloak. FYI.
assbot: This powerful Reddit thread reveals how the poor get by in America - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1ynFBc4 )
asciilifeform: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/14/this-powerful-reddit-thread-reveals-how-the-poor-get-by-in-america << we've arrived at the end of the line. u.s. newspapers print articles concerning reddit threads.
ben_vulpes: what are the semantics for working with asswot?
ben_vulpes: nope. perhaps the otp machine?
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/e9757a9deb4f50a25d868f26f4c3ab1d/tumblr_mvec3nySMa1s6dk4zo1_500.jpg was a great car.
decimation: well, it certainly curtails one form of civil forfeiture at the federal level, leaving a vacuum that can be filled at the state level, if the states so desire
assbot: Holder limits seized-asset sharing process that split billions with local, state police - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1ynDEMM )
decimation: apparently usg has decided to greatly limit (not completely stop) civil forfeiture at the federal level
mircea_popescu: "Brothel for Slaking Intellectual Lusts" anyone here actually played planescape : torment ?
decimation: ah I see that link only has a few pages of the book
decimation: is this the paper in question? cryptome.org/2013/09/klepto-crypto.pdf
decimation: I find the 'go' rant amusing. Would asciilifeform similarly object to python? I believe it can run on mips
mircea_popescu: "what my grenadiers are capable of, only I know. their equals might be found. their superiors - no."
mircea_popescu: so there's a small statue in buenos aires with a san martin quote i absolutely love.
mircea_popescu: hence the "leave britny alone" meme.
xiando: I would prefer if they don't endorse that or anything and leave it alone.
asciilifeform: they're trying to play it "anonymously". ie, not official << with pretense every bit as thin as with 'tor'.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: there are plenty of people who are so focused on "mass adoption" as a priority that they will compromise any and all aspects of bitcoin to further that goal; what would get more mass adoption than endorsement from USG? << it could become a new brand of tide.
mircea_popescu: it really gets them the worst of both worlds, but hey, it's what committees get. no actual men there to take charge.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: gavincoin's probably it. << no. in typical fashion they're trying to play it "anonymously". ie, not official.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller: this is how athero was able to launch ziggap << not a very good example. he had amassed trust over time, and likely at a higher cost than what he made out of it. the controlling factor there was "insane guy stopped taking his pills one day."
mircea_popescu: "others will not readily understand how our implementation of 3 card monte is an implementation of 3 card monte, giving us an exploitable knowledge asymmetry - which makes this exactly an altcoin, which is why it's sensible to pretend we're like bitcoin"
mircea_popescu: "whenever misreporting an event is worth more to your stake than it costs to buy back the lost reputation, you misreport the event. decentralized selective scamming ftw!"
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron: such a thing is not possible; there needs to be an arbiter to decide if a bet has resolved yes or no << easier to "invent" stuff than understand stuff. just like it's easier to write new code than understand coding.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: (and that there is another one, where it wasn't. but i think we did this one before) << like 5 or 7 times.
thestringpuller: but in all srsns, i thought the "popularity contest" died out by the end of high school
asciilifeform: all vermin envy the virus.
asciilifeform: from the standpoint of vermin - yes, valuable
thestringpuller: i never understood when going viral became the equivalent of becoming valuable...
thestringpuller: starving marvin in kenya buys a bitcoin with his 50000 kenyan shillings he saved up over the course of 5 years...
asciilifeform: or rather, robbed.
thestringpuller: But isn't this like someone trying to power a water wheel by simply running up stream with buckets of water they collect downstream?
asciilifeform: you will have to ask the fellow who thought it up
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: gavincoin is not made to replace usd, but to bleed bitcoin
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i think the hardfork drama is fundamentally seeing split, or cold war in bitcoin
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user thestringpuller to user aethero: Level 1: -1, Level 2: 0 via 3 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=thestringpuller&dest=aethero | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=aethero | Rated since: Wed May 2 19:24:52 2012
thestringpuller: ;;gettrust aethero
thestringpuller: this is how athero was able to launch ziggap
asciilifeform: then proceeds to sell, e.g., nonexisting cars.
asciilifeform: which they build up through trivial deals << aha. this is actually an age-old plague on 'ebay' and the like.
asciilifeform: but baking tradeability in as a matter of course - is another thing
asciilifeform: in point of fact, even our system of reputation (wot) is theoretically 'tradeable', in that somebody could - in principle - sell his privkey to satan
asciilifeform: the 'tradeable reputation' thing sounds disastrous.
asciilifeform: the basic idea is that meat puppets are not in any fundamental way different from other types of puppet.
asciilifeform: there we go.
asciilifeform: i'm not averse to seeing actual solutions to 'decentralized xxxxx,' but they inevitably fall short re: 'democracy-proofing'
asciilifeform: 'A key feature of Augur is tradeable Reputation. The total amount of Reputation is a fixed quantity, determined upon the launch of Augur. Holding Reputation entitles its owner to report on the outcomes of events, after the events occur. Reputation tokens are similar in other respects to Bitcoins: they are divisible to eight decimal places, they are accounted for by summing over unspent transaction outputs, and they can be sent
asciilifeform: this is assuming that we have a reasonably certain copy of his pubkey pre-dating the events. which, iirc, we do.
asciilifeform: he could easily, if he wished, demonstrate what the genuine material was, and what has been doctored or made up wholesale.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you find it interesting that, despite the legend of snowden having used gpg, we have no signatures from him pertaining to any of the material ?
asciilifeform: in my diseased mind, the parsimonious hypothesis is that there is actually an nsa where that deck was genuinely crapped out by earnest monkeys who believe every word.
asciilifeform: seems like pretty obvious case thereof.
kakobrekla does the sexygingers dance
mircea_popescu: i know for a fact the usg did not know what was in the leaks until their press agents told em
mircea_popescu: anyway, the point is that gpg was widely used for the snowden leaks. this indicates that a major player trusted it, and was right in so doing ; and suggests a major target for that reason alone.
mircea_popescu: artifexd it's not a strict thing, more like a general consideration. i doubt they managed to react fast enough to do much to 4.14
artifexd: I believe the point is that Snowden didn't say gpg was compromised. However it could have been compromised since he left. Only mircea_popescu knows mircea_popescu's motivation for that spec though.
artifexd: Snowden worked at the NSA until June 2013. GPG 1.4.13 was committed on 2012-12-20. GPG 1.4.14 was committed on 2013-07-25.d
kakobrekla: updated the welcome message (took out gribble part) and removed ddos warning , i think its gone again?
mircea_popescu: trust is good. what, fucking is also an obsolete, pre-scientific word. slides right down nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: further contributions encouraged!
kakobrekla: but then i forgot to ask wtf am i to do.
kakobrekla: others will be assbot sourced automatically from now on.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo / cazalla pls to write-up this truly momentuous development. << lemme catch up on what the news is and I'll hammer something out.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for assbot from 1 to 10 with note: Nuclear sub delivered 2 days before order while paying me $500
assbot: You rated user assbot on 12-Apr-2014, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: Nice ass & face bot..
asciilifeform: the changekey thing leaves something to be desired.
cazalla: anyway.. shower time and then to play host and patriarch, bbl
cazalla: not really, these 20 odd people are going to mess up my clean home :\
mircea_popescu: cazalla even more yours then!
cazalla: i have birthday guests in the next 30m so if BingoBoingo can otherwise i'll catch up on logs this evening and write up whatever it is that needs doing
PeterL: having the same for voice would make it so our scripts from gribble would be easily convirtable
kakobrekla: is it so hard to read off the link?
mircea_popescu: yeah the old way had the advantage of automation, but this has the more significant advantage of airgap
kakobrekla: you can request 10 commands, take them all at once to airgap
PeterL: so the link is different every time?
assbot: You rated user kakobrekla on 03-Mar-2013, with a rating of 5, and supplied these additional notes: too much stuff to list. inquire within..
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla as in, if the rating was given via here, or imported from gribble's db
kakobrekla: ah forgot to mention, otps can be executed out of order, but they are valid only for 15 min
kakobrekla: what is the value of source
kakobrekla: there is also !unrate and !changekey
assbot: You rated user mircea_popescu on 16-Dec-2012, with a rating of 5, and supplied these additional notes: good fella.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from -10 to 5 with note: good fella
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for mircea_popescu from 3 to -10 with note: scammer
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the idea is to import gribble's wot but mark it as gribble's, and allow others to import assbot's wot.
kakobrekla: as ascii pointe out, session is bad so there is no more that.
asciilifeform: are these synchro-forks or fork-forks ?
kakobrekla: anyway, the wot has been forked into assbot and is running now
asciilifeform: where are these kids now.
asciilifeform: evidently not too much acid, because - they ran.
asciilifeform: next time contemplating the raving insanity of 'reddit' bitcoin users, etc. - read these.
asciilifeform: ';Urko is a dog. Urko is one of my best friends. Urko is a fantastic dog becoz sometimes..... Urko SPEAKS! Urko is very timid and only speaks to me...and not always...urko only speaks when both,urko and me,we start to smoke that rare cigarretes that urko has. Then urko start to speak a lot of :) and we stay all night speaking,smoking and seeing films orplaying trivial pursuit,or coding,or doing a lot of things :)'
asciilifeform: http://repo.hackerzvoice.net/depot_madchat/vxdevl/avtech << many classic and otherwise interesting pieces
artifexd: I will pause coding to read "Malicious Crypto" and finish the course. I'll report back when I'm done and made a decision re: golang's crypto libraries.
mircea_popescu: stupid fucking name. anyway, towards the end there's some good foundational stuff. perhaps not directly useful for the purpose at hand, but very good to get your head swiveled in the right position
mircea_popescu: there we go!
mircea_popescu: i been looking for it magically can't find it. the one that had the rsa break in the last fascicle
asciilifeform: artifexd: the most basic 'kleptography' takes the form of slipping bits of key into variables which are normally random. but there are more subtle channels.
asciilifeform: artifexd: well-thumbed copy of this right here on my desk. beautiful book, if you skip all the parts that must have been thrown in to give it a sensational/saleable 'seekoority' flavour (vignette about h4xx0rz shuffling floppies around in ch.1, mostly)