mircea_popescu: but the point is, since some of the brighter young minds on forum have taken to reading the logs, pointing out the plain obvious now and again is god's work
mircea_popescu: who with a clue is ever surprised by the facts of any matter in discussion ?
mircea_popescu: and there;'s a coupla more folks i wouldn'
mircea_popescu: yes, a supermajority. bluematt did mopst of the post 0.5.3 testing that's not retarded,
asciilifeform: e.g., the stuff i backported
asciilifeform: seems like he wrote most or all of the post-0.5.3 stuff that actually works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pieter wuille. one of the more sane people involved.
asciilifeform: incidentally, i have no idea who sipa is, but does appear to do much of the gruntwork in phoundation's bitcoind
mircea_popescu: jurov sure but i thought there was some funny story involved
mircea_popescu: trinque: who in the fuck let these bastards steal fire from the gods, and why wasn't I told about this? << but... http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GreenspunsTenthRuleOfProgramming
asciilifeform: (there's a few lines of code from that one in here)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you read the 'go for tea' letter
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i read that off the mail list ?
asciilifeform: ^ that in fact was the letter that turdatron swallowed
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: see this_is_lame.txt
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller go to -dev ask sipa
mircea_popescu: according to the five year old, the burning house is no immediate cause of concern, he has his teddy.
mircea_popescu: "economic lolexperts in webeconomies have reviewed the fact that they have nfi what's what , what matters and where to look"
mircea_popescu: gavin's mother on black cocks will work fine.
thestringpuller: MP where are you getting these stats?
mircea_popescu: there are 323 nodes with 99% uptime.
mircea_popescu: there are 1433 nodes with 90% uptime
mircea_popescu: mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there << no. look at that shit!
mircea_popescu: ie, the reality produced by the "consensus" of the "community" of "developers" on twitter.
assbot: Postgres Outperforms MongoDB and Ushers in New Developer Reality « The Postgres Blog from EnterpriseDB ... ( http://bit.ly/1AomvD3 )
lobbes: jurov: aha, I had not for some time. I'm digging the new look
mircea_popescu: tx is either in the main chain or in the mempool. the forks/orphans/we are irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: trinque: should I be de-publishing things that ended up timestamped on a dropped fork? << things can't end up detimestamped in the first place.
mircea_popescu: trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke << you don't understand the power ranger power range!
jurov: PeterL: asciilifeform's email had about hundred lines. if you make me a code that can unwrap them right in polynomial time...
lobbes: http://thebitcoin.foundation/index.html << I see y'all went for the 'hacker-green-and-black' after all
artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections.
PeterL: jorov: if messages get disastrously wrapped, could your program automatically unwrap them?
assbot: You can earn $13,000 a year selling your poop - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/18KhJUR )
coderwill: that's an interesting question - I would say yes, but that I debate whether or not that is actually English or a regionalism
PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website.
jurov: imma using the phrase "it got disastrously wrapped" from now on
jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of user interfaces that display these messages which may truncate, or disastrously wrap, the display of more than 78 characters per line" OMFG
jurov: everyone PLEASE either wordwrap text before signing, or attach it as file so that email client as no chance to munge it (you can leave empty body then)
jurov: punkman: your email client wordwrapped the clearsigned text, i was able to undo it
jurov: asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was not able to determine why sig is bad. pls pastebin the original
punkman: !up The20YearIRCloud
cazalla: mebe telemarkets and auto dialer couldn't find anyone free at the call centre to put you through to
cazalla: i dunno, "goodbye" sounds a bit prophetic, i'd be getting the tinfoil hat and shotty, parachute at the ready
punkman: granted, I'm not in drone country and the paranoia feels a couple decades early.
punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?"
punkman: there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up.
fluffypony: they're not cool enough
assbot: Bitcoin Elite to Gather on Secret Island for Bilderberg-Style Retreat ... ( http://bit.ly/1D87w03 )
trinque: who in the fuck let these bastards steal fire from the gods, and why wasn't I told about this?
trinque: fluffypony: when I finally learned lisp it was the same feeling towards every other scripty language
mod6: still some 32400 nodes out there
fluffypony: at least when they "invent" a new database they can invent silly architecture without caring about cryptography...the amount of retarded cryptography in the altcoin space is scary
trinque: nevermind the 40 years of research that culminated in modern rdbms
trinque: "inventing" a new "database" is just like farting out an altcoin these days
trinque: fluffypony: there'll be one eventually
mod6: i guess maybe one other time it ran a long time like this until it ran out of memory and blew its brains out
fluffypony: asciilifeform: "waffle" is my go-to when I talk hypotheticals...WaffleCoin, WaffleOS, WaffleDB
trinque: then saying well fuck, since documents are right, obviously, lets do that
trinque: lets not invent a database poorly as part of the problem
trinque: and when you're working on something that potentially involves the wealth of goddamn kings...
fluffypony: and they're two steps away from having re-invented an RDBMS
fluffypony: trinque: the worst is when they create a "fast, distributed key-value store" and then a couple of years later they get pressured into adding "fully atomic transactions" which ends up needing consistency, and so that becomes "full ACID support", and then fast-forward a few years and you have them inventing a "SQL-like query language"
trinque: turns out a lot of the code we wrap these kv stores in looks a lot like shitty constraints, shitty transactions, shitty referential integrity, etc
trinque: asciilifeform: rdbms is the surgical one, I hope
trinque: the problem with that approach is splits
trinque: I think I'll just give deedbot an out to spend and when it's depleted it's done, insert another please
trinque: "sorry database, I don't know the data I want by name. You're supposed to tell me that..."
trinque: these "key value stores" are a joke
trinque: rdbms is for modeling problems; best tool there is for that
mod6: i'll put together some log snippits when it does
trinque: the fuck is this?
trinque: I look at this api and say "surely there are not this number of core abstractions..."
asciilifeform: trinque: this is after nubbins` prints the book
trinque: maybe when the deturdulation is all said and done, the act of programming against the thing can be improved as well
decimation: ah, well that might work then
asciilifeform: decimation: as part of the traditional protocol, yes
decimation: do nodes query other node's connections?
mod6: this is strange, last like 5-6 times i got wedged at 168,000 it errored out pretty quickly (like the snippit in the matrix doc), but now, taking a good while...
decimation: perhaps the node can walk jurov's turdatron for specially marked (and signed) emails
mircea_popescu: (also bear in mind these aren't really supposed to ever power down)
mircea_popescu: well, they are dependable, but still.
mircea_popescu: it's lightweight, large and dependable. all the qualities the dns letters don't actually have.
mircea_popescu: i don't see the letter dns servers perceive any need for putting my fucking ip in their list anywhere.
mircea_popescu: an actual backbone for the bitcoin txn
mircea_popescu: that's the idea isn't it
pete_dushenski: did anyone else see right through the meta-sharks ?
asciilifeform: well, perhaps not one, but... 7? (therealbitcoinfoundation)
assbot: Meta-metastasis, or how a dancing shark jumped the shark. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/16p47gY )
pete_dushenski: scoop for superbowl viewers at home: http://www.contravex.com/2015/02/03/meta-metastasis-or-how-a-dancing-shark-jumped-the-shark/
asciilifeform: but there are 1000 holes, and one cock
mircea_popescu: the solution is perfectly there. here's the hole. here's a peg you may put in there. or else stick your own cock or a bottle of coke
asciilifeform: however this leaves the 'what seeds' question open still.
asciilifeform is a firm student of 'the best machine is no machine' and like the solution of not even having a solution to the 'what seeds' thing
asciilifeform: for some reason i thought we were still thinking in the 'gifts to gurlz at parties' train of thought
mircea_popescu: uness you're shipping them to your mother, in which casse, put there w/e you want to put there.
asciilifeform: well then user has to fill it up.
mircea_popescu: irrespective of what the consumer may have come to expect.
mircea_popescu: there is no burden that i can conceive where one's held to ship with prefilled config files.
mircea_popescu: the fact that someone has a port open matters about as much as the fact someone scribbled something on github/wikipedia/we
asciilifeform: to backtrack, my earlier suggestion was to ship them with a basic list (a few hundred addrs)
mircea_popescu: if you buy a coffee grinder it does not work out of the box unless pre-filled with beans ?!
decimation: should the nodes ship with a 'cannon' blockchain?
asciilifeform: but what is to be found there ?
asciilifeform: whence should they look for seeds ?
asciilifeform: (to whom, precisely, are they to speak?)
mircea_popescu: it's what deedbot is for, among other things
asciilifeform: ip of my pogo << that'd mean having these identify selves to one another specifically
mircea_popescu: derived by "here is the ip of my pogo"
asciilifeform did not suggest that a node carry out the scan!
mircea_popescu: no, the sane way is wot signed seed list.
mircea_popescu: they're not.
mircea_popescu: decimation the error is to imagine lenin, dalton and gentlemen planters are some sort of ilk.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not grasp how one could see the 1848 revolts as failed.
asciilifeform: whereas normal people are stuck wondering how many public btc nodes, and afaik there is not a believable public number anywhere
asciilifeform: note that enemy has all the portscans he can ever wish for.
asciilifeform: (proofofwork is not a magical pill against every conceivable form of molestation, only the immediately profitable forms)
asciilifeform: zap whatever compartments and cliques may have formed naturally (or unnaturally...) in the graph.
asciilifeform: ^ i would much like to see that mega-portscan happen. it is really the only sane way to generate a proper seedlist.
decimation: the problem from the rebel's point of view - does his rebellion tend to empower gentlemen planters, or lenin, danton, and their ilk?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thinking of the mostly failed revolts in fr, elsewhere
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform were you thinking 1907 ? i dun see the 1848 angle in any light.
asciilifeform: '48 rather
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean after the austrian monarch was deposed ? in a negotiated peace ?
mircea_popescu: fuck you, you're a nail. whether you drive or bend, you're getting hit.
asciilifeform: so, let's take the malcontents of europe circa 1849.
mircea_popescu: you see a nail go "don't hit me unless i actually go in the wall" ?
mircea_popescu: this is what cowardice is : the consideration of meta.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, to revisit this point : the byzantine generals problem is specifically and exactly mathematically formalised cowardice.
mircea_popescu: because the aliens aren't about to land with platinum visas for everyone.
asciilifeform: same reason a fella sitting on the stake 'bitches'
asciilifeform: in which few, other than obvious idiots and easily controlled orcs, care to 'throw stones'
asciilifeform: as it does not guarantee that the 'generals' march simultaneously or in any useful pattern at all
mircea_popescu: decimation you see the difference between being king and being, allegedly, a nation ?
asciilifeform: suicidal courage is but one solution to the byzantine generals conundrum
assbot: Logged on 13-11-2014 05:34:16; mircea_popescu: decimation suppose you were king, and ordered the leningrad of paris. what then ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the rebellion thing is not a cowardice problem as such but actually a byzantine generals problem.
asciilifeform: 'if the chinese were to jump from stools 1 metre heigh upon hearing the signal over the radio...'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja ever have a ru physics textbook with the jumping chinese example ?
decimation: mircea_popescu: but you said the same plan would not have worked for Louis XVI
asciilifeform: 'The DEA has designed this program to assist with locating, identifying, and seizing bulk currency, guns, and other illicit contraband moving along the southwest border and throughout the United States.'
mircea_popescu: then it can be a "but i dun want to" and everyone can go home happy.
mircea_popescu: heh. people keep derping about the 1% but don't really want to be teh 1% eh ?
asciilifeform: and the reason why 1 machinegunner can guard 500 prisoners
asciilifeform: this is basically solzhenitsyn's theorem
asciilifeform: are there even half a million in north a.
mircea_popescu: so what's the problem, if half a million people shoot half a million cops, they're going to build you a special country club and keep you there with all your friends ?
decimation: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/surveillance-national-rifle-association-cars-license-plates/2015/01/28/id/621159/ << " The National Rifle Association is investigating reports that a leading federal agent proposed using license-plate readers to scan vehicles at gun shows as part of a gun-trafficking crackdown."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: your advice makes the same amount of sense as solzhenitsyn's
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform << <mircea_popescu> then start shooting police officers coming to steal the cash.
mircea_popescu: stop pussy-fucking-footing all around the broken, shattered remains of a thing that no longer exists.
mircea_popescu: he should start doing actually roi able advertising. create a festival. say in the place where they stole that guy's cattle grazing.
mircea_popescu: decimation see, this is the whine of an idiot.
mircea_popescu: this may be one of the first ones that has made a profit.
mircea_popescu: jesus these idiots.
decimation: '“Google could be doing business with firearms businesses. The thing is they won’t because of their stance [against firearms]. I can’t advertise on Google. I can’t advertise on Facebook. I can’t use Amazon, because they prohibit the majority of my products. I closed down that account over a year ago, and I still get notices from them, regardless of the emails I sent to them telling them that I’m not selling with them.”
asciilifeform: 'Karrasch also found he could not use the popular accounting software QuickBooks to pay receipts because of the nature of his business.' --- enjoy 'the cloud' !
mircea_popescu: we've made more good law here in the past year than the us congress in the past decade.
asciilifeform: 'I cant use Amazon, because they prohibit the majority of my products.' -- plenty of small-arms related junk on 'amazon'
decimation: the problem is that the vector usg uses is civilization-destroying. essentially "obey the law" becomes more of a farce until it becomes a laughing matter
Vexual: do you pay the tickets for your limo mp?
mircea_popescu: and it goes from there.
mircea_popescu: government is the bitch. the slightest getting in your way must be met with disproportionately escalated response until it either dies or gives up.
Vexual: and a days folding money might fit in the back pocket
mircea_popescu: not the right approach. bitch talks back, she gets slapped. she starts crying, she gets beaten. she screams, she gets cut loose.
Vexual: i like the art deco font, reminds me of a time i can't possibly remember
mircea_popescu: the nontriviality there is a little ofsometing else. the thought process of "she's a total bitch, let me try and work with her nevertheless" is responsible for more unhappy marriages than any other thing.
asciilifeform: and someone would still have to come up with electronic bezzlars to pay tax with - or the tax squads descend
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e.g., everybody in the store would need to move to that planet
decimation: usg ought to be careful with pushing this kind of shit, you don't want the little people to become confused about banking
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see the old threads re: nontriviality of hooking up to cash world from scratch
mircea_popescu: make a steak out of the whole thing.
mircea_popescu: decimation pity they don't have the backbone (and leadership) to start a cash only program, and publicly denounce banking as a scam.
mircea_popescu: i can;t wait for when it's not about the block size but about the total bitcoins, and it's noit about "saving africa" but about saving ubs, and the howlers are not on the forum but on every tv screen,
decimation: "The House Oversight and Government Reform Committee released a report last month showing the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) targeted gun dealers and other businesses like payday lenders and pawn shops as illegal operations, and pressured banks to halt dealing with these businesses. The administration’s program is now known as Operation Choke Point, which is run by the Departments of Justice and Treasury."
assbot: How The Federal Government Puts The Screws Into Gun Businesses | The Daily Caller ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz9PHf )
decimation: asciilifeform: re: 'drugs in toilet' << the simple version is 'ur bezzlars be our bezzlars now!' http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/23/gun-businesses-seek-ways-to-survive-while-denied-basic-business-services/
mircea_popescu: so there's no confusion if i'm gettingserviced by oliver bussmann or by his mom.
Vexual: einstein would be sitting there, drunk as fuck in austria, thinking, "nah thats the same shit"
mircea_popescu: there you go, who asked if to own or to burn ? to this.
assbot: UBS Group's CIO Wants To Throw Bitcoin Under The Buss | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz8Xm4 )
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2015/02/ubs-groups-cio-wants-to-throw-bitcoin-under-the-buss/ << lol ubs wants a "blockchain technology" separated from bitcoin
pete_dushenski: cazalla "negative media attention Bitcoin reguarly receives in the media" << regularly
mircea_popescu: http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/316/303/2ae.jpg << for the record, satoshi also co-authored the original not-a-mary-sue
asciilifeform: 'We, the true "only official foundation of Bitcoin" declare ourselves the new leaders. Our main goal will be hookers and blow for everyone! Our main concern will be beer and Bitcoin of course. We will represent the bitcoin community from now on in the correct way to the outside world and all important people need to bow to us and bribe us to get a foot in the door. It will also be lucrative for the people in power to infiltrat
hanbot: <mircea_popescu> it's this particular concoction of the forcible solipsism of crusoe with the narcissism of a fifteen year old boy that grew up alone among cows, with the desperation of a dying beggar on the dark side of the moon. << ahahaha best review evar
assbot: Introducing new "the only official foundation of Bitcoin" [sign up as president] ... ( http://bit.ly/1Dz6wQr )
decimation: decimation: i wonder if the device keys have even been 'phuctored' ever. << "CMs MUST store and maintain the CM Device Certificate RSA private/public key pairs. The CM MUST store the CM Device Certificate private keys in a manner that deters unauthorized disclosure and modification. Also, CMs SHOULD prevent debugger tools from reading the CM Device Certificate private key in production devices by restricting or blocking physical
mircea_popescu: and if you look at the place's history... those wolves that ate boston... their teeth are still visible in the striations of the skins of these people.
mircea_popescu: it's this particular concoction of the forcible solipsism of crusoe with the narcissism of a fifteen year old boy that grew up alone among cows, with the desperation of a dying beggar on the dark side of the moon.
mircea_popescu: about a farmer. who was in debt. who was married to a marry sue, whose published novel saves the farm.
mircea_popescu: but then!!11 for it has a c. then her husband , who you know, was hoping to be able to enjoy a drink in a bar without being laughed into the ground sometime before he dies completely forbade any further writings
mircea_popescu: right ? TOTALLY TURNED IT ON THEM WITH HER WITS
mircea_popescu: but then, for it doesn't end there! then she confronted teh comedy goldminers by saying that "they each paid a quarter to see a fool, but she's been paid 50 bux and sees a roomfull of fools"
mircea_popescu: the move from "laughed their ass at me" to "didn't like" ? blaming the band ? here : http://trilema.com/2015/have-some-chocolate-cake/#comment-111925
mircea_popescu: a) claimed that the poor arrangement / band / etc were the reason people "didn't like" her 2nd performance.
asciilifeform: i was expecting a reference to the maths girl
mircea_popescu: but she persevered. the exact manners in which she persevered are, to me, the best summary of the american spirit that can be had.
mircea_popescu: this was a simple woman who couldn't write, that infatuated herself with the notion that she can produce poetry
asciilifeform wonders whether, if mircea_popescu offered a bounty, one of the flunkies would walk in with 'smoking gun' dirt
asciilifeform: see also the reddit incident
mircea_popescu: the best part of tradecraft is that it is so god damned hard to do well.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check out this funny happenstance : once bb dropped the philippines bomb ? 20 mb thread suddenly of no further interest, off first page etc.
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/02/ubs-groups-cio-wants-to-throw-bitcoin-under-the-buss/
asciilifeform: there is a whole not-very-well-hidden world of what one might call 'cardinal richelieu' ('...six words of the honest man!') infrastructure, waiting for command from usg to send 'd34th thr34tz!!!1111!!!' to some crowned head that are Provably!111! from your house, when the time comes
assbot: Logged on 28-08-2014 03:56:01; asciilifeform: there is also the tired, old, mundane 'there is a kilo of cocaine in your toilet tank' theorem.
mircea_popescu: don't lol mr, my work on this topic has been reviewed by internet csseconomists and other lolexperts. plus oleg leganza.
mircea_popescu: no matter what other numbers are involved.
asciilifeform: decimation: i wonder if the device keys have even been 'phuctored' ever.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> can also scan the old-fashioned way but then add two or three zeros to time required. << yes, but cheap enough :)