adlai: expecting anything short of retardation from a bureaucracy the size of the idf is hopeful at best
gribble: ALF TV | The Official Unofficial ALF Fan Site!: <http://www.alftv.com/>; ALF (TV series) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALF_(TV_series)>; ALF (TV Series 1986–1990) - IMDb: <http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090390/>
the_scourge: which was retarded i was working on a kibbutz as a lifeguard and i was tearing up guys on their weekends on runs/workouts
adlai: the_scourge: now that mp gave you legal residency, you should be able to !up yourself in PM with assbot, and that lasts as long as you're connected to the channel
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'the fiat thing' ever tries, if you notice, to walk the fine line between scam and outright expropriation/dekulakization
mircea_popescu: hard times in the international diabetes federation :D
adlai: !up the_scourge
adlai: so yes, three years, full time, and reserve duty for the extent of my healthy adult life (unless/til i move out of the country)
the_scourge: asciilifeform: right, that's probably a stretch too far from reality. but USG and HMT and BoE have been doing the fiat thing for a while now, and that's just one step less crazy
adlai: the_scourge: what did you serve in?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: better example - 1918, lenin's boys experimented with cancelling money.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yes, yes they can. hitler couldn't because his guys were getting beaten by our guys
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] 'vulture capital' << i'm surprised you're not making the easy poo joke here too
asciilifeform: the_scourge: that king cannot simply order arbitrary objects monetized, or forgo the use of money entirely
asciilifeform: the_scourge: we have mats and adlai here, also former (or possibly reverse) army men in various corners of usa vassal empire
the_scourge: unless someone can remind me what the point of the original shells comment was, we drop it :) ?
mircea_popescu: ie, earlier european governments understood the problems of unbalanced trade, and invented balancers.
asciilifeform: 'couldn't they just command it delivered'
the_scourge: from personal experience, it's so fucking annoying though the best of us could only last a short while on the inside
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that merely the fact of exchanging "Shiny" for "cunt" might well be reported as "monetary shiny" by some people and 'loads of fun whee' by some others.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: as a boy i was fond of reading ungodly quantities of ww2 minutiae. and i remember marvelling that the luftwaffe had to pay xxx reichsmarks, for, e.g., a v2 rocket. 'why did nazis have to pay for things,' i asked.
the_scourge: there is a lot you can learn about finance by signing up to be a uniformed tough guy for one of the big two, with your head already fully unplugged
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik the post-slavetriangle use of said shells is a reasonably proven fact
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a word in your ear about "cowrie shells" : it is possible they were ever used for money. it is also possible libertard anthropologists created the pious fraud of "retarded non-white peoples also have some semblance of intelligence".
asciilifeform: the_scourge: but why does a particular army demand to be paid in one thing and not another ?
the_scourge: nothing holds their value other than the force of the issuer's military. i served in one of them
the_scourge: i was thinking about this the other day ... some smart people say that if there is not secondary use (no matter how minor, compared to the total volume) then something cannot be monetized
the_scourge: i know the story
the_scourge: the pound gets 2/3 qualities, close but no cigar
mircea_popescu: the pound.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: in your soros example, what is the unmonetized commodity? surely not the gold
ben_vulpes: <punkman> [] there's this robocaller that waits for me to pick up the phone and say something, pauses for a short time, then says "Goodbye" and hangs up. << calling to find people who pick up
mircea_popescu: aww coin telegraph goiung teh way of what was the one they kept pushing, that was supposedly big ? also coin something
the_scourge: adlai: to be honest my time doing the market data, i was more focused on getting an inside education on the more... interesting things in the financial markets, than stacking my CV with kernel/ASIC achievements. and in that regards i came out quite well
the_scourge: right so translation helped. and i knew there was a reason i still keep a urxvt instance running, even though it's horribly bloated
the_scourge: um what's the best way for me to find out what that says
the_scourge: hence, the kernel tuning. csets etc
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: легальные резиденты
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.the_scourge.1:33e0ab5465f7642a6e1ae13ba6bbb73a29cd777a865ced5b2dfb9dd7a56197ab
the_scourge: adlai: oh, i should have said there was custom hardware involved. and 48 core bulldozer CPUs (bad decision, but made before i arrived)
mircea_popescu: !rate the_scourge 1 легальные резиденты
the_scourge: to be honest i just did the studies to get away from computers for a few hours a day.... also to answer the big questions in life
the_scourge: and for education... fuck that seems like a long time ago but among other things i did a masters in ancient philosophy, languages and regilion. studied greek and aramaic and history as well
adlai doesn't see the connection between "linux kernel" and "market data", but if that's interesting/profitable, glhf
the_scourge: kernel as in... the linux kernel
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: leprous beggar sounds more like undead beggar in your instance then.
the_scourge: in another life it was all systems programming etc but then i decided to go to the UK and join the Royal Marines... really really long story
the_scourge: erm well i work for myself doing ... what is interesting/profitable. was market data kernel tuning, then perl coding, now more 'devops' stuff
mircea_popescu: the_scourge what do you do for a living, and what sort of education do you have basically.
mircea_popescu: the suspicion being that perceived brilliance in other fields may be more the newspaper memory hole than his own merit.
the_scourge: thestringpuller: also, probably best to avoid parallel womb renting
mircea_popescu: the_scourge who are you anyway ?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: neh, that's honest work
the_scourge: for a bunch of scottish guys to buy their porridge with... really?
trinque: was talking with someone the other day about how the american system of govt is a shattered sovereign
mircea_popescu: trinque quite exactly. accidental central planning and laika is alone in the control center.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if a leprous beggar could rent out space in his necrotic arsehole by the hour, to several clients in parallel, why wouldn't he
trinque: thestringpuller: its like a fractured version of central economic planning
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller you ever read that crooked timber tyhing about the bezzle was in log yest ?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: there is too much serial raising of funds. like its a mental illness or something.
thestringpuller: !up the_scourge
trinque: I thought I was going to have to re-chew the blockchain up from first funding each time to see whether "new shit had come to light"
thestringpuller: !up Jrum the_scourge
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you can now self-voice, as described in the assbot manual (message it with !up)
thestringpuller: well sometimes it seems "blah raised x money" and you're like "why do they need that money so badly? Are they having trouble staying alive?"
kakobrekla: the_scourge ^^
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for the_scourge with note: new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently
asciilifeform: !v assbot:asciilifeform.rate.the_scourge.1:97ebe29eec56db08f42ab0fbddfb4b60375c862c3ec0412baac3b1e9b0f39e28
asciilifeform: !rate the_scourge 1 new blood, seems like a reasonable fella, presently
asciilifeform: well authenticated
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there;s no logged in
kakobrekla: err, there is no session to be 'logged in'
asciilifeform: the_scourge: gotta be in wot and logged in to press that button
assbot: the_scourge is not registered in WoT.
mircea_popescu: you can always derive a profit by attacking unmonetized goods, or rather ; by exploiting the false claim of anyone putting forth an unmonetized good as money.
mircea_popescu: and it won't be "the wardens"
the_scourge: right, but for the issue at present: POW will always be vulnerable to hardness attacks, because there are bad?unlikeable?big? people in the world who can do a lot of work and ruin the fun for everyone, even if we ignore their fork of the chain. btc got very lucky in that it slipped under the radar, but that will never happen again in history. the wardens have been alerted
mircea_popescu: they just hold some sentimental appeal for me :)
asciilifeform: (game theorist)
asciilifeform: see also the works of tom schelling
mircea_popescu: more generally, that nothing other than bitcoin can really exist
mircea_popescu: the generals are that you can have only one monetized good
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IGVwSi )
mircea_popescu: the particulars are discussed in http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
kakobrekla: the_scourge see pm.
asciilifeform: but in a rather different way
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you may be aware that bitcoin network does not function by 'vote' of the nodes.
the_scourge: so if we're talking about the main fork of the chain, then... idk you have to ellaborate
the_scourge: ok well define 'bitcoin' then in the context... like it or not LOTS of people are working on lots of implementations which lots of people are using/will use
the_scourge: "the notion that anyone"
mircea_popescu: the_scourge which one
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the notion that anyone works on bitcoin or in any manner relevant to bitcoin outside of this channel is laughable on its face.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, let them come up with that.
asciilifeform: bitcoin - the actual bitcoin, that, contrary to popular notion, still functions - is the semiconductor for all of these.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: this means bitcoin in much the same way that computing means semiconductor.
asciilifeform: or, if you prefer something more orcish, the hajduk licence.
the_scourge: ok, so other than the microscope paper (which is a bit high-level) what exactly can/should/could be done with bitcoin itself? why not just skip to working on the other stuff and let the existing bitcoin maintainers work out their shit. there are plenty of people who oppose the foundation already
mircea_popescu: im neither. i'm a fucking guelph. that's a white flag you see behind, and the battle is for imperial immediacy not bs.
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
the_scourge: wanting to undo the new deal and sufferage etc only makes you a slightly redder republican, or a backbencher tory
the_scourge: 20th century? a bit myopic? otherwise i agree
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: right, i was talking about the world at large. you can stick a fork in journalistic integrity, it's done
mircea_popescu: part of why we're here is exactly that : making paper money impossible -> making the welfare governments impossible -> making the "public oppiunion" impossible -> undo the numerous errors of the 20th century.
the_scourge: right so you're saying nefarious things are being attempted but the attempts are hopeless even within the main branch of blockchain
mircea_popescu: <the_scourge> like we're back in a weird 'sleuth and journalist > public opinion' game which was lost a LONG time ago << public opinion only matters in fiat backed worlds.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: yes
asciilifeform: but it does not follow that, if you can hear mice in the walls but have not yet discovered their turds in your cupboards - mice are harmless and ought to be let alone
the_scourge: is the experiment discussed in last night's logs?
asciilifeform: the protocol is sufficiently well-designed, and vintage nodes sufficiently abundant (esp. among miners) that said hijacking presents little more than an annoyance at present (see mod6's experiment last night.)
the_scourge: which, the seed nodes would be a good vector for such a thing
asciilifeform: not especially enthusiastic, but it doesn't keep the neutrons in
the_scourge: well i take it your goal is to prevent nefarious hijacking of bitcoind, done in such a way that everyone upgrades and long after it is realized that the network is resultingly compromised?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: you will find that one of the more interesting ideas we run with in #b-a is that public opinion isn't a particularly interesting concept re: bitcoin
the_scourge: idk man i appreciate your sleuthing and keep it up but holding the btc foundation's feet to the fire will NEVER work
asciilifeform: he is the author of assbot
asciilifeform: my current working hypothesis is that the 512-list contains 'stratfors' or similar animals
asciilifeform: if it is in there after all - i'd appreciate a pointer.
asciilifeform: in their published material
asciilifeform: or, at the very least, i was not able to find such a description
asciilifeform: the_scourge: if, say, it were a random selection
the_scourge: why would they select such a node? surely no reason other than "this operator is keeping up to date" would need to be given
asciilifeform: the_scourge: but i was digging for proof that a) there are < 0.8 nodes in the candidate list b) none were selected
asciilifeform: the_scourge: no one.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: who was asserting that there were nodes < v0.8
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: purpose of experiment was to demonstrate the fact of.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not surprised in the slightest ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000046.html << comments/thoughts ?
mircea_popescu: nope. but i could have, and the file'd have been .asc too
mircea_popescu: (somehoiw i thought this was the case)
jurov: regardless of any other attachemnts
asciilifeform: there is (optionally) message body; then, for each attachment, there is a detached-sig
jurov: mircea_popescu: it is supposed to show directly the clearsigned text that was used to validate the message
mircea_popescu: you get a hash of the file and an explanation of purpose in the signed attachment, seems reasonable ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: turdatron, as originally built, expects a pattern like this: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000040.html
mircea_popescu: anyway, explain to me like i'm slow, there's a problem with the thing as presented ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is no message body cause when i put it in the body it got mangled to hell
asciilifeform: jurov: that's not the problem i'm talking about. rather, the fact that turdatron could not possibly have processed this message on its own.
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000047.html << i think jurov slipped this through manually. there is no message body, signed or otherwise
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150203/header-bitcoin-src-21may2012_8b34d7ebf677c0fb6434ef87c18492857af9e391.asc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it's not in the signed body where did you get it from ?
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
asciilifeform: turdatron wants a machine-readable standalone sig (just the --pgp-- block) for every attachment.
asciilifeform: your statement that said tarball must not be used except for research should have gone into the signed message body
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seems like your post was originally rejected by turdatron because it did not contain a machine-readable signature for the tarball
asciilifeform: chetty: a good many otherwise well-informed, educated folks in late ussr could not name very many muppets either
asciilifeform: chetty: expect this number to reach 99+ as the residual fucks given re: political apparatus waft away
chetty: Thats right 77 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds in the new survey could not name even one US senator in their home state
asciilifeform: see the earlier link
asciilifeform: try the '!register' function
asciilifeform: the_scourge: not long ago, kakobrekla finished a rework of wot. so there are a few hiccups
the_scourge: do i just do the same dance with assbot?
the_scourge: 16:45 <gribble> You are now authenticated for user the_scourge with key 300A9F6A3D0564B4
asciilifeform: get in wot the_scourge
assbot: the_scourge is not registered in WoT.
asciilifeform: !rate the_scourge 1 new blood, seems like a reasonable fella
asciilifeform: the_scourge: huawei corp makes lte modems
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'sparkfun corp.' sells a lte simcard good for 6 months, ~80 usd
the_scourge: do the russians make LTE hotspots? they've started making smartphones with e-ink, but it's a shame i didn't hear about it until after i went off of smartphones entirely
asciilifeform: the_scourge: LTE << what country ?
mircea_popescu: jurov uh but how do i fin the file ?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: yah we ended up having to use another contractor's LTE just to try to google some of the fingerprints
jurov: mircea_popescu: the email is out, after a bugfix (to account for application/pgp mimetype properly)
asciilifeform: the telco drops anything at all coming your way that isn't part of a tcp connection you established earlier
the_scourge: and sadly i was on a VERY VERY VERY large very flat network with more class A IPs than ... almost any other entity on the planet. and lots of buggy ssdp routers all over the place 'cause of the (phys) architecture
asciilifeform: (they are nearly useless for everyday life)
asciilifeform: the_scourge: i've discovered that cellular modems, at least in the way they are operated in usa, are immune to this type of ddos.
asciilifeform: we have at least two posted by regulars - one that was entirely ssdp (from buggy upnp in consumer routers) and another that was mostly ntp (likewise misconfigured embedded electronics)
the_scourge: i didn't ask for the USB stick
asciilifeform: the_scourge: would you care to post it publicly ?
the_scourge: they brought a wireshark dump over to my desk
the_scourge: asciilifeform: the network guys at $my_client are actually top-notch
asciilifeform: it is actually a bit hard to take a proper capture of ddos (as in, all or even most of the packets) with common equipment
the_scourge: but what's most interesting is the shape of the traffic and the packets... i was plugged into a sub-campus and it would appear that it was using dynamic discovery protocol over http for amplification (using any device that supports it)
asciilifeform: the_scourge: from packet dumps taken by myself and at least 2 other folks here, appears that mr. ddos uses mainly 'amplification' method (ssdp, ntp)
the_scourge: and it was one of the more impressive ones i've ever seen, and i used to see top quality ones on a daily basis
asciilifeform: the_scourge: didja measure?
asciilifeform: then we can presume he's back in business.
the_scourge: um... recently? as in the last 5 hours? :)
asciilifeform: then ddoser took a vacation, it sorta vanished
TomServo: Came across that looking for a tirade against the period - asciilifeform any help?
asciilifeform: !up the_scourge
mircea_popescu: TomServo i dunno why he's so strung up on it ; semicolon is perfectly fine way to end things ; it also happens to be the traditional english ending of "separable entities that are for ulterior reasons strung together".
asciilifeform: then it was assembled and launched
asciilifeform: the tanks
TomServo: "Whoever decided to use the semicolon to end something should just be taken out and have his colon semified. (At least COBOL and SQL managed to use a period.)" heh
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean the shuttle ?!
asciilifeform: "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever. << the space scuttle was, according to legend, sized so that the typical american bridge could safely pass it. likewise legend holds that this was just short of true, and many bridges (not to mention roads) had lives considerably shortened by the scuttle
mircea_popescu: just as long as i get back the control, i see no problem with !derp!herp!router!alf
asciilifeform: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project << would have to be present at every hop of the message. a direly implausible project, sadly
asciilifeform: jurov: lint would be run locally. by the rest of us.
mircea_popescu: artifexd: Current gossipd status: Education still in progress. Code to the point of loading keys and accepting connections. << sounds pretty good.
mircea_popescu: jurov resent, with signed material attached as file. still nothing there apparently.
thestringpuller: Iterpret the results for me
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller it
mircea_popescu: jurov btw i can guarantee my client did no skullduggery to the email. i have the outgoing saved as sent by the mta.
mircea_popescu: why then would you read nobody's opinion in the newspaper or try to digest a random chunk of online nonsense.
trinque: punkman: "droned" << heh, I just got a call from a weird number saying they received a package addressed to me
mircea_popescu: would you eat a chunk of cheesy-looking substance you found on the sidewalk ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL: re generating seedlist: once conected, the node has a list of working connections, yes? So dump some data from our working nodes into a file, that is our new seedlist for new nodes. Update periodically for people to grab from Foundation website. << not substantially different from the "scan the web" notion. more democracy.
mircea_popescu: "here's a bridge building specification to accomodate the many bad bridges build all over the country" said nobody ever.
mircea_popescu: jurov: " to accommodate the many implementations of <<< specification made to accomodate the implementation. welcome to the world of braindamage, or where do you think civil engineers that flunked go ? computer science!
mircea_popescu: punkman: ^ if the block the bundle tx ends up in disappears, I think best idea is to make new tx << no. there's exactly no reason for deedbot to have block awareness. if the tx disappears, it should not notice.
mircea_popescu: chetty: email that actually sends what you want and nothing else would be a worthy project :) << better than darmkail and other bs at any rate.
assbot: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 The enclosed 1386667 bytes f - Pastebin.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1AoubVU )
jurov: in any webmail, you can save the finished message as draft and then try to gpg verify the text. that should take care of 90% of above problems
mircea_popescu: TomServo the latter yes.
jurov: asciilifeform: how do you propose the lint would work? run on saved mailbox?
TomServo: I noticed a fully-synced node maintains its IRC connection. I was curious if that's desirable, and also if that means you're made a candidate to fill other nodes?
mircea_popescu: punkman: always makes me think "is this the day I get droned?" << just checking the line's still live.
asciilifeform: at least we oughta bake a 'lint' for these msgs
mircea_popescu: short of implementing the phantomcircuit hack and emailing everyone who ever emailed it anythging the whole error log every time
mircea_popescu: "All programs have been written, and that program is Lisp. With perfection already attained, implementation is left to the ignorant who do not already know the truth of this." << shit, now i know why i don't code.
mircea_popescu: jurov im reading the logs see why my email died, haven't gotten therer yet but will presently.
jurov: mircea can do the same to get his email out
asciilifeform: ergo the experiment described in this_is_lame.txt - probably did not say anything new to the folks here, but may benefit the students