mircea_popescu: asciilifeform door to door shakedowns are incompatible with the present day usg.
pete_dushenski: trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model << curious, when ?
trinque: there was a moment where I realized my whole model of my life, experience, etc was that, a model
pete_dushenski: we all have to believe in something, some moreso than others
pete_dushenski: this os is definitely in the first! biggest! best! vein
trinque: but some confucianism for the peasants never hurt
trinque: pete_dushenski: I think we'd agree then. I'm saying the OS that's being distributed is a mangled hack
pete_dushenski: nor can they
trinque: if that exists, in other words, humans are wired to mostly receive their understanding of what is real from authority, this mode of "state" is exceptionally irresponsible
trinque: in that the ruler clearly always has the power to sort of speak declaratively about reality, and he/it will be mostly believed, or at least ignored
pete_dushenski: for the greater good(tm)
trinque: this brings to mind again my (hardly novel) thought that the usg is a shattered sovereign, rather than the absence of one
asciilifeform: well, first hoover, then fdr
asciilifeform: nor was there anything more than picketing when fdr pissed on ww1 vets demanding their pensions
asciilifeform: the case was resolved in favour of 'subject, you are meat and we own you'
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: the one that lays claim to every drop of water in the sea, every grain of sand on land, etc.
asciilifeform: which is, as good as any, a demarcation point for the birth of modern usg
asciilifeform: trinque: better to just give unto bezzledom what is bezzle << consider the implications of the well-known u.s. court case Wickard v. Filburn.
pete_dushenski: more digestible when the claim is geographically isolated
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: The giving of false testimony - a crime, seen in Russia as small change - in the U.S. can lead to 26 years of prison. The fact that, in essence, the matter concerned a young girl who did not wish to admit her love affair with a married man, interests no one in the U.S. The principle of the machine is: do it [the crime] - receive. [consequences] the machine is merciless and incorruptible.'
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 02:05:11; asciilifeform: 'american does not believe the man in the uniform to be a bandit, with whom one can come to an understanding. he believes him to be a robot, who must be feared. american law enforcers are able to, by pressing on the keyboard of a multitude of laws and regulations, 'transmute' the most insignificant peccadillo into a monstrous deed. FBI did not need to beat up Monica or toss into her purse heroin or am
asciilifeform: in the orcish world, if you've paid your bakshis / filed mircea_popescu-style 38 lawsuits against city hall / etc. - you're golden
asciilifeform: 'let's meet the auntie'
asciilifeform: the above is not a statement of 'history is a boot stomping on a human face forever', but a testable hypothesis about actual near-future observables.
asciilifeform: the algorithm for sniffing out faux poverty is also not a deep secret, nor especially new
asciilifeform: i've said it before, but will say again, if 'humane' paper tax collection falls apart (and it seems that eventually must) - the old-fashioned door-to-door shakedowns will return
hanbot: good to know in case taxman shows up claiming otherwise :D
mircea_popescu: respectively "please direct any inquiries to the central bank of china / putin / etc"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: worked pre btc << still works on all but the l33t35t d00dz, who don't need a bank for anything, are entirely untainted by usa-juice, etc
mircea_popescu: i guess butthurt at it not having worked at all because well... nobody wants their money inside the beast.
mircea_popescu: o look at that, the tax break for repatriating corp profits? aolso gone.
asciilifeform: so, the chump can travel wherever he wants, to zimbabwe if he likes, but if we were to rock the boat - a bureaucrat flips the switch, and -bam- - he's a pauper.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: the basic reason why u.s. tax is generally easy to enforce, is that most u.s. folk who have money are rich specifically in usg-controlled scrip or pseudo-realestate or the like
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yo, if this bet stays open until the fucking 6th, and it ends at 100k...
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: if charged for so much as jaywalking
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i thought they'd flag your passport if you get IRS audited and charged for evasion? (though I guess this is more a dice roll if it occurs to an individual)
cazalla: i'm not implying he would have the authority, just when taxman might begin to believe he does
asciilifeform: afaik no one expat has yet been brought back in a cage for not paying. but i'm told that certain foreign banks will avoid you if they learn you have u.s. citizenship.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: just like north kr.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: the price of US passport is paying income tax wherever you live.
mircea_popescu: since i'm not in the pizzeria business... fuckall i care.
mircea_popescu: im sure they murder whoever dares open a pizzeria.
thestringpuller: that's how they got Al Capone. "Tax Evasion"
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: ianal, but it is not the mere act of not paying, but what they consider to be an attempt to weasel out of having the tax assessed or collected, that constitutes the offence in the usa penal code
asciilifeform: (mircea_popescu probably knows something about the argentinian tax, even if he has not seen it in person)
thestringpuller: Don't you get sent to jail in the US if you don't pay taxes for X amount of time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: big fat news, usa is simply moving to the taxation system customary in most of the orcish world - levy exorbitantly high tax, and hope it makes up for spotty collection
thestringpuller: this is why rednecks bury gold here in the confederacy
mircea_popescu: then, should your inheritor sell it when it's $10`000, usg wants further capital gains tax. not on 9k, but on $9990
thestringpuller: they try to, hence what I said about judge in future may instruct juries to stay away from bitbet
mircea_popescu: they still seclude juries neh ?
thestringpuller: super retarded judge if bitbet influences the trial
asciilifeform: watch preet let him slip, just to win the bet.
thestringpuller: is there a bitbet for if he gets convicted or not?
assbot: Logged on 07-12-2013 16:09:18; dexX7: looks they are serious with "50 new listings in one year"
lobbes: I leave to code for an hour and the conversation has moved from grepping, to dictionary specs, to biochemistry. Several of the reasons I love this channel
ben_vulpes: <the_scourge> which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical << bwahahahat?
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJyUtbn0O5Y << harvard being somewhat useful rather than handing out A's to the females who are best in bed.
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: i like the branch and fork model. and we do need a non-code collaboration toolset built around that model. and we know that model works for closed communities, dictatorships and everything else
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: It's true. Mitochondria have their own different DNA from their hosts and their hosts use them as a dependency
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc
the_scourge: ben_vulpes: plus, the technology could probably be adapted for closed communities
ben_vulpes: collaborating with randos is for the birds.
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: i don't fuck with any of that stuff.
ben_vulpes: seen it all, still works in the trenches
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: not only fedwiki, but it's also got all sorts of css and javascript
mircea_popescu: the_scourge the logs are actually linked in the topic. and the variety speak is http://trilema.com/2013/youre-gonna-have-to-learn-that-variety-speak/
the_scourge: also in the news, ward migrated his wiki to fedwiki
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: the_scourge: Not a bad log day to start on http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-12-2013#411276
ben_vulpes: the_scourge: if you do it right, you'll find yourself searching through the dead logs for further context.
BingoBoingo: Eh, mitochondria are their own seperate life form. sort of like a libc
ben_vulpes: <the_scourge> mircea_popescu: yah cool, i did read through some logs << some lol. the point is that you've gotta pick up the variety speak, and that comes from reading logs in near-real-time for six months, not "some" or "a few" or "the ones i found interesting and/or easy"
the_scourge: which is why we're going to get 3-parent babies soon. which is bullshit it's just a mother, father + a different woman's mitochondira
thestringpuller: i was talking about evolutionary. the selection process of how they end up in cells
thestringpuller: it's not about energy exerted in that case it's about the cost to build the proteins/enzymes to break them down :P
the_scourge: thestringpuller: get on topic. if you like biochemistry, tell me what is the cost of breaking spirulina cellular walls. now :)
BingoBoingo: the_scourge> when we started cooking our food (cause fire was a new technology at some point), our intestine shrunk by over 20%, leaving more energy for our brain << More likely shrunk as meat became nutrient fire or not. Most carnivores have short GI tracts because meat digest faster than comlex plant matter. Cell walls are a bitch to break.
the_scourge: i'm not disagreeing with you. i eat lots of meat. when i lived in a freer countries, i shot most of what i ate. you're preaching to the choir here but there are huge benefits to some of the more accessible forms of protein
the_scourge: and hey i'm of the "catch and eat it raw" line of thought as well, it's just that from a scientific look, spirulina does require a lot less investment
BingoBoingo: Digestive effort is easy. Small intestine gets pumped full of all the right enzymes to process animal protein
the_scourge: basically spirulina, the advantage is you have to break down one cellular wall and you have mitochondria, meat is a MUCH harder process
the_scourge: i mean, the digestive effort
the_scourge: BingoBoingo: second point, valid. however, getting the meat in your mouth is 1/10th the battle
BingoBoingo: <the_scourge> spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Also even though "complete" spirulina in low in some more important amino acids
BingoBoingo: <the_scourge> spirulina is far better than meat than meat as a protein source. fake bio knowledge or not, ask you local biochemist what must be done to meat before your body can digest it :D << Must go in mouth. Even raw I digest fine.
the_scourge: except for the end. kinda gets distracted by shiny misdirection :)
asciilifeform: in the sense of 'folks we haven't gotten a good shot at christing yet'
asciilifeform: 'heathen' ?
asciilifeform: so rather it's like... does english even have a word for 'unchristed' ?
mircea_popescu: lecherous if impotent old men have a comparable preoccupation with "the unfucked"
asciilifeform: although what is this preoccupation with 'the unbanked'
assbot: UBS Group's CIO Wants To Throw Bitcoin Under The Buss | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1DuEO73 )
asciilifeform: http://qntra.net/2015/02/ubs-groups-cio-wants-to-throw-bitcoin-under-the-buss/#comment-9224 << l0l
asciilifeform: this is just a conspiracy to drink more piss, isn't it << 'eat recycled food! it's good for the environment, and ok for you!'
mircea_popescu: The algae has actually been tested and successfully grown in human urine at 1:180 parts. After 7days, 97% of NH4+-N, 96.5% of total phosphorus (TP) and 8598% of urea in the urine (ca. 120-diluted) were removed by the microalgae under autotrophic culture (30 °C).
nubbins`: "The U.S. National Library of Medicine said that spirulina was no better than milk or meat as a protein source, and was approximately 30 times more expensive per gram."
punkman: there is that whole "may contain traces of pig cocks" thing, but meh
asciilifeform: ( http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000048.html << for record )
asciilifeform did try to explain this in the devlist
mircea_popescu: <punkman> asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo? << because it's actually before the "bitcoin is important" point of no return.
mircea_popescu: there we go.
kakobrekla is unaware of how badly scattered the mining code is
punkman: as for moving satoshi cpuminer to different binary, it's gonna need to use the "getwork" avenue, so I'm guessing that'd be a significant rewrite
punkman: well that's what we want to do, mutilate the hell out of it. just in different direction.
asciilifeform: unless satoshi, the enemy, or both - were soothsayers
asciilifeform: punkman: try reading 0.10 some time. much of the original mechanisms - mutilated beyond recognition, or missing entirely.
punkman: asciilifeform: because there is less crap to undo?
asciilifeform: punkman: try to understand why the pedigreed 0.5.3 has special status.
assbot: Sarah butts pulls up a chair at the sissy faggot crossdresser tea party. http://t.co/CImMm6APi9
BingoBoingo: From the New Oxford English Dictionary database https://twitter.com/Blacktric/status/562442413520982016/photo/1 (Maybe exaggeration of source)
nubbins`: ive seen members of parliament call each others sleeveens with impunity because the speaker of the house didn't know wtf it meant.
nubbins`: and generally when one is called a sleeveen, one does not know how to take the insult, due to being wholly unfamiliar with its definition and usage
punkman: asciilifeform: satoshi's miner is valuable for the same reasonas the rest of that piece of shit << is it valuable? I thought the goal was to replace satoshi's hairballs.
nubbins`: it's in the dictionary of newfoundland english
nubbins`: mp quote me saying some people don't bring shit to the table
assbot: Search the #bitcoin-assets log
adlai: the_scourge: generally doing a log search via !s or http://search.bitcoin-assets.com will help you find context for words or ideas that seem out of place
mircea_popescu: and now im off to trilemize the dictionary/spec discussion, if anyone wants to be in ask now.
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: jargon studies? i did read the jargon file front to back if that's what you mean. long long time ago though
mircea_popescu: however, the absence of "chthulhu" from there will be regarded as prima facie proof that the word in question was in fact not 1900s london argot.
adlai: my dad has not one but TWO dictionaries that require a magnifying glass to read the copy
nubbins`: and a page from a word-a-day calendar with the word "grok" defined, that occasionaly *is* a dictionary
mircea_popescu: note that they usually explain their limitations. "A dictionary of 1900 London argot" won't contain nixonisms
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the only thing that makes you go "this isn't a fucking dictionary" is if you look for a word that should be in but isnt
asciilifeform: the_scourge: if you do not know this, you are far behind in your studies
trinque: asciilifeform: this student appreciates the pasted lesson
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations." <<< why does it have to be exhaustive?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: the concept of 'proof of work' as it pertains to bitcoin is a very well-defied, mechanical thing. as in, machine-verifiable.
the_scourge: which by the way, if we ever turn THAT kind of proof (fuck, even literate code commits) into PoW, then it's anybody's game (again) but ... too theoretical
nubbins`: we all don't bring something to the table
the_scourge: mircea_popescu: true but we all bring different things to the table, i could write a book on NRx history, philosophy etc: that is proof of hard work done
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i don't much care if all the n00bs are american generals. let'em learn a little.
mircea_popescu: i see little in there other than "agend desperate to create personal raport as attempts to control teh public venue aren't working for ununderstood reasons that look scary."
mircea_popescu: there's not even any need to specify it actually contains definitions. the quality of the definitions distinguishes a good implementation from a bad one and that's all.
adlai: a little relevant, and then i must break scalpl manually if it won't do so of its own accord: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOXQo7nURs0
mircea_popescu: dictionary = "exhaustive list of all the symbols in a conventional symbolic space, with adnotations."
mircea_popescu: "a book containing the words of a language alphabetically arranged, with their meanings etc"
mircea_popescu: and the problem is even more visible in dictionaries (as definitions are simply the specifications of words). never is it the case a dictionary manages to not include extraneous nonsense in the soup
mircea_popescu: i defy you to find a spec anywhere in use in the shitstack today that manages to not include things it really has no business specifying.
asciilifeform: but the only proper spec is a) actual spec b) fits in head c) because was created by actual person
asciilifeform: not that a spec arrived at via the usual idiot committees is any better
adlai: the_scourge: "people who work a part-time job so they can fund another person's part-time job doing their homework"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's how you end up with 'the spec is the implementation' crapolade
mircea_popescu: that's the main task of spec work : avoiding doing anything as much as humanly possible.
mircea_popescu: complex specs are in no sense better. the only thing a very complicated spec shows is that the designer did not understand the overwhelming importance of not specifying.
adlai: the only good thing i have to say about scheme is that it's abstruse enough that sometimes college students pay me to write it for them :)
adlai: mircea_popescu: right, it's more that i'll find some really interesting book, get all excited about reading it, and then change my mind when i see a three page index
the_scourge: last time i was involved, people had the same concerns, but on the miner side of things
asciilifeform: the_scourge: learn ru, bookz immediately become something you get for free, instantly, and in grepable plain ascii.
mircea_popescu: adlai still. even people with good indedices, what are they going to put in there ? can't make it half the book.
adlai: my book-buying process (when i'm in an actual bookstore and can flip through the book) is made or broken by the quality of the index
asciilifeform: what's the benefit to running a node? << start with the fact that if you haven't a node, you aren't using bitcoin.
gribble: Saw II Needle Pit - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbviirWLCQg>; Saw 2 (5/9) Movie CLIP - The Needle Pit (2005) HD - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CAQ0iZKP08>; SAW II making of The Needle Pit Scene - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx472xleOOQ>
asciilifeform: the_scourge: generally, ascii
mircea_popescu: the_scourge generally the advice given to noobs is to read the logs for six months to a year.
asciilifeform: to go along with the dead tree
mircea_popescu: adlai the same process ruined me for books. i'm like "fucking paper no grep"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: more like a traffic violation (with bigger numbers) than a criminal matter << Basically this is my read of the Erik situation. Govt settled because all they could get was the headline and token cash.
the_scourge: yah i was going to buy a pogo for nas work at home. but then i spent $way_too_much_fiat and built a xeon one instead
adlai: using !s to extend your memory of others' words, sure. extend your memory of others' actions, sure. ... but of your own actions!?
asciilifeform: this is not a theoretical thing, it is happening now
asciilifeform: mains plug, ethernet.
asciilifeform: running therealbitcoin.org node.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: experiment with a minimal-cost bitcoin node
asciilifeform: the_scourge: 'pogo' was suggested (iirc, i suggested it) purely on account of cost (and the fact of chassis and power supply being included in the cost, pre-assembled)
asciilifeform: the_scourge: have not tried personally
nubbins`: it's so shitty you actually have to remove the hyphen
asciilifeform: microshit's denials only cemented the truth of this rumour
the_scourge: asciilifeform: what's your take on the linuxino boards?
mircea_popescu: so they have little choice
asciilifeform: and therefore skipped
trinque: the_scourge: I think it's a bit of a problem to expect anything other than barbarism from those trained to execute it at industrial scale
asciilifeform: '9' did not happen because, apparently, 'windows 9' was pattern-matched by various existing code as being in the windows 95, 98, 'me' class
mircea_popescu: trinque the thing is tho, by now "free" is wholly captured.
nubbins`: asciilifeform no big surprise there
trinque: having been late to every party in the last decade, msft will now reinvent itself by being late to free!
the_scourge: trinque: for an example of what i mean, watch the russian throat slitting vidoes... not tactically strong
nubbins`: who the fuck cares anyway?
adlai: there's 10 now?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: if you'd like to run node on cpu with closed turdcore running closed turdblob at all times, at 3x the cost of 'pogo' - be my guest
adlai: drill sergeants on individual thinking: "if there's any doubt, there is no doubt", which eventually became "if you started thinking, stop"
trinque: nubbins`: put a quarter in the swear jar
the_scourge: trinque: you are (generally) correct, i was just saying in the russian army, i think some of the weird shit was a result of the slavery
asciilifeform is not a soldier, but can hardly imagine an army having more use for 'individual thinking' at the platoon level than a dog has for beets
nubbins`: asciilifeform so how 'bout running a node on the NEW raspi ;p
trinque: or... why would so many listen to so few were they not slaves?
the_scourge: asciilifeform: this is true of many places. i was lucky in that i was in a place where they glorified individual thinking, as much as possible
trinque: the_scourge: seems the enslavement of soldiers has to do with the necessity of keeping them loyal/taking orders
adlai: well and if you want to prepare your men to die in battle, they better die in training first, no?
asciilifeform: the_scourge: tactical success, as i think it well known, is not the only thing expected of a soldier
adlai: this still happens occasionally, but whenever it's in a regular (non-elite, anybody-can-join-and-who-asked-you-anyways) unit, these days, the unit gets disbanded, officers decomissioned, etc
trinque: the_scourge: but directly aligned with being enslaved eh?
mircea_popescu: rather uncommon by now.
the_scourge: asciilifeform: tormenting nods - not the shocking stuff
adlai: asciilifeform: mothers.
asciilifeform: but who, exactly, finds the ritual torments of recruits - shocking ?
adlai joined the army right after a major push for increased transparency in the ritualized torture of new recruits, so the crazy stuff only happens in crazy units these days
the_scourge: erm yah what bootnecks do it public knowledge i mean bear grylls does videos about the weird stuff
PeterL: mircea_popescu: "You do not have, nor you can ever acquire the right to use, copy or distribute this software" << should be "nor can you ever"
adlai: as far as approved exercises go, the worst i had was a week spent with a single day's food ration, most of which was spent in full NBC gear
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: had to travel << Land on one side of the country ride to the other on occasion even.
adlai: the_scourge is describing approved exercises. i'm describing legends about what happens in elite units outside the approval and regulation of the main army bodies.
the_scourge: so, they do things like, you spend 2 weeks on an excercise, march 12 miles into the 'theatre' with 65lbs on your back, dig holes in the ground all night, and then lie in them (saltwater) and defend them, and then do full dignified kit inspection, ready to do a multi-unit ambush/assult all night
mircea_popescu: the israeli dignitary force.
the_scourge: it's the ability to keep your dignity no matter what.
asciilifeform: the_scourge: describe, for the benefit of folks in barbaric faraway lands, some of these nuances.
the_scourge: it's interesting how the israeli culture generally knows about some of these nuances. the bootneck culture lives and breathes them and i don't think i could have bought that for any price
mircea_popescu: <adlai> you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them << not if you're a woman, wink wink
the_scourge: but again, before, i didn't even know what those things were. it's more than just crawling through broken glass for miles. there are a lot of subtle nuances
the_scourge: adlai: for those things, if you can make yourself do them, then you're better off than if batshit insane men force you to do it, under threat of bodily damage
adlai: dunno which legends you've heard about what they do to 'break' people in elite units
adlai: heh well some kinds of training, you'll have a hard time finding a private trainer to subject you to them
the_scourge: but that's REALLY fucking expensive and at the time the income streams were trickling a little
adlai: not having actually been in such units, i'm speaking from impressions of people who were - but it seems as though the army trains people to be useful to the army, and any personal benefit that people got out of these units was mainly due to their own efforts to better themselves
the_scourge: or shayetet13 - i wasn't young or patriotic ... and i wasn't when i got a good slot in the british military. i was having the same thoughts as moldbug, but instead of blogging about it i decided to become as deadly as possible in as short amount of time as possible
adlai: mlrs is just a regular battalion in the army, but it used to be a special unit like that one... so there was this massive cognitive dissonance, where the higher up the officer, the more elite they thought their unit was
the_scourge: i was interested in shesh shesh tesha at the time :D
asciilifeform: for 75x the price