mircea_popescu: nubbins` but nevertheless...
assbot: Cel mai bun paladin din the world. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOCvj4 )
assbot: Best Paladin of The World pwning nubs on My Heart Will Go On from Celine Dion (ATHENE #1) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1FOCdsp )
asciilifeform: decimation: i always mistrusted this explanation. beasts do not need to sense their deaths to turn up expired in some inaccessible place.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know what i'd like to see, a reality show of this guy and athene the best paladin in the world (with his mother)
decimation: asciilifeform: re: asciilifeform: presumably they keel over somewhere else, in a designated place < cats are well known for anticipating their deaths and crawling up some inaccessible hole beforehand to die
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061025 << i suspect the importance of that is strictly local. ie, some club of idiots got owned by this concept specially constructed for their particular disabilities.
nubbins`: (and his mother)
gribble: Jonathan Meese & his mother: Mommy and me are animals - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgxQntdMjwI>; - Mommy & me rescue - Shamokin, PA Rescue Animals: <http://mommyandme.rescueme.org/>; Mommy & me rescue - Adopt a Pet: <http://www.adoptapet.com/adoption_rescue/85327.html>
mircea_popescu: (there's a widely known, at least in europe, welt der kunst, world of art. /me had classmates going for a while that it simply means "wealth of cunts")
mircea_popescu: DEFINITELY a better approach to the entire eliezer/potter bs than either of the proponents.
mircea_popescu: possibly the best song of all time.
mircea_popescu: One more dies one more lives, one baby cries One mother grieves...
asciilifeform: suppose a man were disassembled into components, sorted by atomic mass. then, next day, reassembled. answer - a) this cannot be done for Reasons b) he died and was replaced with soul-less copy c) he simply got paused and then resumed, will wonder where the day went but nothing else d) none of the above ?
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 22:56:06; trinque: there's a mental defect where one considers himself to be an idea
mircea_popescu: then on the other line alf was going nuts about kbd emanations good for 20 meters even!
asciilifeform: iirc it was 'not sop therefore chew for us and feed into mouth or else'
mircea_popescu: was in some court case or other during the great assault on private email providers of 2012-2013
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i remember correctly, usg is on record saying they lack the ability to input a printed gpg privkey.
mircea_popescu: it did work. bullet didn't even make it through the whole ~200 leaves.
mircea_popescu: you know, there's this legend that actually happened of romanian mobster that got shot coming out of a restaurant
asciilifeform: who was it who had the steel businesscards.
nubbins`: not quite the best shot to show it off, but yknow
mircea_popescu: hired another lawyer the other day, left him my card, then when we met socially later he was like... well the office tried to figure out wtf. first we thought those must be like mail codes of your country. but then that didn't make sense. so susie said you must be in porn.
nubbins`: not sure if i have pics handy, but i know there's a couple cards downstairs
mircea_popescu: course, not so easy to pull it off, need just the right kinda asshole.
nubbins`: puzzle or word search on the back maybe
mircea_popescu: but the film could definitely have done with a lot more and a lot better nudity.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i never understood the concept of a "paper erection" until i got into this biz, ya know
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu pictures danielpbarron doing that thing with the cards in american psycho
mircea_popescu: nubbins` : name/surname ; nick ; gpg/gpg on one face, dunno exactly what should be for qntra on the other.
nubbins`: any of the above who have particular ideas about how they want their cards to NOT look, best speak up
mircea_popescu: im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen.
mircea_popescu: i can go for that as a qntra perk. you gonna be willing to keep the design and make more of the same if these folks run out / for new folks ?
nubbins`: contrast the economy of scale here to alf's $200 book ;(
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 22:51:23; jurov: someone go grow a finger from yudkowski's dna and tell him you have the rest of his clone in cellar
mircea_popescu: kinda why people go to school : so they can be in the company of their betters (something us kids have serious mental issues with) where they can create this sort of braindamage, be bullied for it, fix it, and so end up sane.
mircea_popescu: he, superficially, has an autodidact's understanding of the basics. that means they are subtly broken. he then proceeds from there, and errors compound.
mircea_popescu: same design, name/surname, nick, gpg key on one side, qntra this that on the other ?
asciilifeform: it went 'subjects as for permission, citizens something-or-other
asciilifeform: in that if obamitler wished, he could hunt the last panda, or fuck 12yo thai
asciilifeform: well there, certainly. but i'd argue that usg implicitly takes ownership of the wild things here
mircea_popescu: similarly in the recently invented "sex tourism" trials, you're not on trial for there bering a fgucked 12yo in thailand, but for there being a usian citizen that had some fun.
mircea_popescu: that's your owner, not the ox's.
asciilifeform: (the crown, who will go after me if i show up with a rifle and a kebeb grill ready to go)
asciilifeform: even an ox wandering loose in mumbai (the locals call'em 'brakes inspectors' on the road) - has owner
asciilifeform: the head of cattle, taught by d3m0cr4cy111!!111!1 that he ought to have some kind of control over his stall, goes apeshit outside.
mircea_popescu: or the one before that. or i suppose most of his links.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> tries to exercise a delusion of control over his environment via the only means he knows how - by smearing his surroundings, and if you let him - entire planets - with his shit << this, is, fundamentally, "social media", as the recent maddox link amply explains.
asciilifeform: incidentally, notice how english speakers use word 'training' outside of the context of spinal reflex (sport)
mircea_popescu: there IS a difference.
mircea_popescu: these schmucks are just brainwashed.
asciilifeform: then possibly needs word
asciilifeform: is the correct word.
mircea_popescu: "o look, the usual crutches i use to hide my idiocy don't work, now it's nude on display".
mircea_popescu: the word for this can be "civilised", but it just as well be "fucking stupid".
mircea_popescu: bs. the problem there isn't anything to do with "people". dependent cattle behave outrageously if taken outside of their pens.
asciilifeform: and having the temerity to whine if a white spot remains
asciilifeform: tries to exercise a delusion of control over his environment via the only means he knows how - by smearing his surroundings, and if you let him - entire planets - with his shit
asciilifeform: at any rate, i enjoy the picture that one day the correct gas may be found for the degenerate.
mircea_popescu: i was just filling in the gaps, dunno wtf he actually used,
asciilifeform: nubbins`: in the lab i worked at, permethrin was used as a substitute for sarin (the building was not rated for the latter, needs airlocks, etc)
nubbins`: is relieving him of his skin before he gets sent to the salt mines an option?
nubbins`: the guy sprayed a can of raid in a cat's face?
asciilifeform is experiencing almost a kind of synaesthesia. that post -stinks-, just about literally, of american degeneracy. smells kinda like 'mcdonalds'
asciilifeform: how does beast with these handicaps stay afloat ?
asciilifeform: presumably they keel over somewhere else, in a designated place
asciilifeform: the beasts fight one another even without idiot man (i know this well enough from watching the wild cats in own yard)
mircea_popescu: exactly. my objection isn't particularly that the cat got hurt as much as it is the guy didn't.
asciilifeform: as in, there can be very few things more noble than killing them, slowly, and with cameras rolling for posterity.
asciilifeform: but some 'people' really -are- the 'planetary cancer'' imagined by enviro-whiners. as in, the actual core of truth behind the myth.
mircea_popescu: me either
mircea_popescu: "could a rope and an open can of tuna solve this problem ? naaah, best call the plumber!"
mircea_popescu: "gee, i wonder why the poor cat isn't scaling the wall after being sprayer with permethrin and not being fed for a week"
asciilifeform if had to choose who to render for fat, the animal or the 'man' from the link, would choose the latter without hesitation
jurov: yes, on such meat branch prediction and caching fail all the time
nubbins`: thestringpuller have you ever thought of eating a large quantity of muscle meat as running a tough program? 8)
assbot: Transition Dreams by Greg Egan "We can't tell you what your own transition dreams will be. The only thing that's certain is ... ( http://bit.ly/1HbTOsz )
nubbins`: skipped 4 consecutive weeks of classes mid-semester, came out w/ an 88 and a letter from the faculty pleading me to change majors
nubbins`: that's sorta the last one i enjoyed
Adlai: right. ender's game's plot, with different words. it doesn't have its own plot, and i need a few decades before i can read this author again, after children of the mind
Adlai: you know, the ones that actually have a plot
jurov: good that unlike jooz, we have danielpbarron that knows exactly what the letters say
nubbins`: which ender's game book was it where they created a race of smart people genetically predisposed to OCD?
Adlai: emphasis on "might", didn't help to point out that the boiler basically works 24/7 and still doesn't keep up
Adlai: what i do know is that one guy took cold showers on the sabbath, because if he opened the hot water tap, it might trigger the thermostat in the base's boiler
jurov: dunno if i could resist to troll them with a bone
asciilifeform: and there isn't really a good effort they could make to demonstrate a desire to avoid those
asciilifeform: jurov: follow the logic. they don't care if there is a sea burial going on underneath, or a shipwreck with skeletons
Adlai only has distant secondhand knowledge of orthodox theology
nubbins`: examine the utter failure of logic by this man
Adlai: in the case of the army - it would be a terrible failure for the officer to let such a thing happen!
trinque heads home, enjoyed the philosophical bullshit session
nubbins`: "The man wrapped in plastic, whose photograph first appeared on the Redditor site and later on the Gothamist site, apparently did not want to take any chances. By covering himself in plastic, he established a separation between him and impurities."
trinque: ultimate trolls, whoever thinks up these rules
nubbins`: "Kohenim are prohibited from coming into contact with dead bodies, and many rabbis have taken the strict opinion that a Kohen may not ride in a plane if he knows ahead of time that it will fly directly over a Jewish cemetery."
Adlai: yes. in the idf, when we had guided tours of mt hertzl (big military cemetary), they always asked before entering if there were any of them present
Adlai: there's a sub-race (seriously, they consider themselves a separate tribe-within-the-tribe) who are not allowed to / don't enter cemeteries
asciilifeform: for the whole lot of passengers
asciilifeform: why not bless the floor tiles ?
trinque: the bag was blessed maybe
nubbins`: the airport in tel aviv is surrounded by cemeteries
nubbins`: asciilifeform apparently some hasidic jews feel they are not permitted to fly over cemeteries
asciilifeform: just as the rest of us do.
trinque: who cares about the clone
trinque: stab the clone and nothing *here* happens
trinque: in the midst of that level of pain no one ever questions where he begins and where he ends
trinque: caused by various head injuries over the years
trinque: times in the past I have had cluster headaches
Adlai: the meaning of 'me' which is consistent in this system is: "the thing which you perceive yourself as communicating with"
asciilifeform: even among the devoutly religious
asciilifeform: re: teleporter: there were actually people who refused to travel on steam locomotives because the soul can't keep up and will get lost
asciilifeform: again using this word that no longer has a correct meaning in the hypothetical system
trinque: asciilifeform: I began criticizing the idea that all of the infinite me's are to be considered as though they are the me driving the keyboard
Adlai: in zindell's scifi, their best tech for copying - renders the organ being copied incapable of supporting further consciousness
asciilifeform does not find ^ a very interesting hypothesis
asciilifeform: (typically shaman says that no such thing as the copy could even be attempted, because the gods will drop a piano on your head.)
asciilifeform: but unless you posit some bit of of shamanism that distinguishes the original and is somehow copy-protected, the copying -happened-
nubbins`: "which do i shoot" "either or, but not both"
asciilifeform: and then mircea_popescu walks in with a '45 and asks which one to shoot
asciilifeform: trinque: you say this, and so will the copy
nubbins`: coupled with hypothetical "suppose this strawman was ME" type clauses
nubbins`: there's a large chunk of the book that could be misidentified as schizo by the unqualified observer
Adlai: and it's a stretch to say that professional actors are schizophrenic, although many of them do seem to fear zoltan
trinque: the extent of that experience will not expand when you duplicate me
asciilifeform: nubbins`: yeah i recall the thread
trinque: there's an experience happening over here, and it has an extent
assbot: The Life and Death of a Neuron: National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xa3gMN )
nubbins`: you apparently see at comic-con type events a lot of people who have an "other self"
Adlai: well, you do become 'less yourself', until there's nothing left... although it's a more complex process than just cells dying
asciilifeform: (while you read this paragraph, it is quite likely that at least one of your neurons died. and wasn't even replaced with a copyable mechanical one, at that. are you 'still you' ? and moreover, do you find the question itself interesting, or the answer being something that matters ?)
asciilifeform: the whole 'copy isn't you' thing is pure unadulterated vitalism, however.
jurov: this is describing whatever is happening in the brain
trinque: jurov: hm, seems just like what one does telling a story to another
trinque: as opposed to the right practice
Adlai: not really insisting, but the wagon is not moderate
trinque: it is probably utterly american of me to desire the right technology to experience such things
trinque: ah, there you go
Adlai: literally, psychedelic = manifesting the mind
trinque: found thoughts escaping out into the things I was seeing around me
trinque: Adlai: that one's on the list for when I can take a long enough vacation
nubbins`: jurov classic explanation of LSD action is that it removes the filters that your brain normally automatically applies to that stream
jurov: i'm all for moderation. not immerse yourself in it, just be aware of the stream
nubbins`: eventually the habit will cross over
trinque: lots of others involving apolcalyptic subjects
assbot: The Perception Scope: How to Conjure Open-eye Visuals at Will - Psychedelic Frontier ... ( http://bit.ly/1MRQoyL )
trinque: jurov: also good to review whatever's slipped in there while one's distracted
jurov: at least my theory is useful in practice. just close eyes and watch what's happening, no need to be bored ever again
Adlai: someone (iirc dennett) lamented that everybody has their own theory of consciousness, as though this was a bad thing!
trinque: jurov: had the thought once in meditation that I was always... hm... thinking everything I've ever experienced all the time
jurov: to choose what is being processed further and verbalised
jurov: plus there is some pattern matching mechanism between tdreaming and external stimuli
jurov: and where thoughts come from... brain is dreaming all the time, there are easy exercises to access this stream at any time
Adlai: specifically, "Of these four forces, there's one we don't really understand." "Is it the weak force or the strong--" "It's gravity."
trinque: the observer
Adlai: sorry, dennett himself is at http://edge.org/conversation/the-normal-well-tempered-mind
trinque: still in my experience there is a distinction between that which is thought and the singular experience of observing that
trinque: the "pandemonium model" of mind?
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:04:33; jurov: if you don't do fork but just spawn threads? what is self there?
Adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-03-2015#1061016 << let's analogize that to http://www.legiontheory.com/
Adlai: yes. in such a multiverse, there are an infinite number of identical 'people', but each one thinks of itself as itself. the others are fungible, but the self is unique.
nubbins`: Adlai they're fungible!
nubbins`: if you accept the multiverse as an axiom, there are already infinitely many copies of the universe in which the entirety of states that the atoms of your brain will ever arrange themselves in are precisely identical
Adlai: even if their 'state' is identical
Adlai: whether the identical programs on identical hardware ever read from /dev/random is another matter
nubbins`: danielpbarron the concept of "enough" varies from person to person!
Adlai: nubbins`: actually, i'd maintain the same even if harriezer's simulators recreate exactly what happens to trinque's brain in real time
trinque: Adlai: yeh agreed they are distinct
nubbins`: Adlai not to mention that in the very next arbitrarily small slice of time, each of those 21 sets of atoms is now in a different state
Adlai: in the prestige, the magician does pretty much exactly this with tesla's copy-teleport machine
trinque: the flopping, lol
Adlai: trinque: let's say harriezer has a 4d scanner, which he uses to capture the entire state of your brain, down to the atom. he then simulates twenty copies of this brain, each in its own simulated universe. even if you believe that there would now be 21 conscious trinques, the other twenty would be distinct from you. kinda like finding out about an identical twin that was separated from you at birth.
trinque: I do not think there's a verbal definition of being
trinque got really like, far out, man, one time and concluded that his language processing bits were not the only thing he is
jurov: if you don't do fork but just spawn threads? what is self there?
trinque: Adlai: dunno how far the programming metaphor goes; explain?
Adlai just finished the alpha version of his twist on actors/csp
Adlai: trinque: right. the child process sees itself when dereferencing 'self'
trinque: or to the religious, "himself before god" or something
trinque: and no other imagined thing
trinque: there's a mental defect where one considers himself to be an idea
trinque: danielpbarron: seems so many people try to argue themselves out of the obvious fact of their own being
jurov: someone go grow a finger from yudkowski's dna and tell him you have the rest of his clone in cellar
trinque: that there are an infinite number of copies of me with the same arrangement of atoms does not change that fact
trinque: Adlai: so? I'm experiencing subjectivity, whatever the fuck that is, *here* and definitely not *there*
Adlai: it's like saying that in The Prestige, whatsisname is a mass-murderer... he's not, he just fork()s
trinque: "Per Yudkowsky's conception of continuity of identity, copies of you in these branches should be considered to exist (and be you) — even though you cannot interact with them."
trinque: part of the basilisk thing
trinque: kind of reminds me of the AI in that
trinque: bothering has its benefits
brendafdez: it still is, at least as of last week i got ddosed when entering the chan
brendafdez: trinque yes i never bothered to configure it properly
nubbins`: you're supposed to soak the entire book block in water+glue, then press it til it's dried, then cut the hole out
jurov: they can be had by observation, not by projection anyway
assbot: The Smallest Bible (NKJV, Black, Snap Flap Closing): Thomas Nelson: 9780840784469: Amazon.com: Books ... ( http://bit.ly/1x9QMF9 )
ascii_field: ... and there's also bibliomancy.
jurov: i was like okay, read it like any other book
nubbins`: "The "great majority of incunables did not issue from the press in a finished state ... hardly any incunable was considered 'finished' by its printer ...", suggesting that hand rubrication provided a sense of legitimacy to the efforts of early printers and their works."
nubbins`: nicer embellishments by the rubricators meant a higher selling price
nubbins`: the red and blue ink were added afterward, by hand, and the printer left a blank space for them