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assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:08:20; nubbins`: a lot of them don't make it to japan
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067551 << which is why japan even still exists anymore. they made it to california, that imploded, now they're moving to texas and places. i was kinda snickering at trinque's explosion yest, bexause well... texas won't survive the idiots either.
assbot: Logged on 24-03-2015 13:06:50; asciilifeform: the 'pathology' was that these people imagined they wanted to move to japan, but what they -actually- wanted was: -to have always lived there-
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067542 << for the record, moving is easy, but a year later and with tons and tons of support and roots and whatnot i still throw almost-daily tantrums
nubbins`: danielpbarron assuming same bdb, i'd say they're interchangeable
ascii_field: anyways i'ma do another buildroot tonight.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the situaton is : usb not usable for storage for our purposes, sd maybe usable. if one wants guidance, that's guidance, if one wants to do testing, that's your falsifiable hypothesis.
trinque: that will someday be the contracted form of "isn't"
trinque: I like how they put 90mb/sec with a fucking asterisk on the thing's sticker
nubbins`: will not pull down another block?
mircea_popescu: but as the guys say, maybe you find the magic stick.
trinque: seems the above sd is intended for yeah, filming
mircea_popescu: usbs have never been seriously optimised for FILMING TO THEM
danielpbarron: maybe i did it wrong or something; USB3 theoretically should be very fast
mircea_popescu: let the man fucking play with things already
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you on the other hand have to appreciate the ricochet benefit.
trinque: mostly interested in helping with the OS
trinque: I am fine with doing the tortoise test
ascii_field: sd card isn't typically built for 100% duty cycle either
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron you gotta appreciate the following point : people have diff items hanging around ther house
danielpbarron: the 5400 rpm sata drive takes long enough
mircea_popescu: trinque you should try the sd if you're doing research.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: how soon can we have it << i personally will dust it off tonight and say where it's at before i turn in for the night
nubbins`: much of today will be useful in the future, i'm putting a pin in it
trinque: any reason not to use pogo with an sd card for the blockchain?
mircea_popescu: forget the 32 bit issue, mod6 is working on that.
ascii_field: the build recipe for the cross to armv5 was called 'portatronic'
ascii_field: though it was used in the bin
mircea_popescu: DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT firing these in anger. You may lose limbs." << recall that ?
mircea_popescu: "PLEASE REMEMBER - these are for research use only.
ascii_field: no reason why the latest recipe can't build on my cross-chain
ascii_field: but kernel dies during boot and have not so far had the time to determine why
mircea_popescu: jurov i dun see there's a difference.
jurov: i guess these roles were fit for manually working males, "inconvenient" for office rats
mircea_popescu: pro tip : not everything that's inconvenient is bad. on the fucking contrary.
mircea_popescu: the notion taht they are "destructive" for either men or women is so idiotic as to wrap over the ridiculous threshold multiple times.
mircea_popescu: "traditional" gender roles not only happen to be correct, but the costs of getting rid of them are, simply put, societal collapse.
mircea_popescu: "Japanese society can be notoriously conservative when it comes to gender roles. While there is a lot of talk about the negative effects of imposing traditional roles on women, their restrictiveness and destructiveness for well-being are rarely mentioned in regard to men."
mircea_popescu: and the woman's butt has been spanked.
danielpbarron: the purple has a usb2 port on the top next to sata port
danielpbarron: also, the blue one cannot boot from usb
trinque: nubbins`: eh? what's the difference in logo color?
danielpbarron: trinque, yeah "Pogoplug Series 4" the one with purple logo
mircea_popescu: because the community is assholes etc.
nubbins`: trinque they're a treat
trinque: I'm going to just buy one of these fuckers and pitch in
nubbins`: potential for wasted effort if the chosen os won't fit into eeprom down the road
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron we want os on the disk like we want wallets on windows.
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 23:14:45; danielpbarron: asciilifeform, what about gentoo on the pogo?
danielpbarron: oh, i guess the reason no gentoo was the kernel and userland are bigger; but if it's not going into the eeprom gentoo should work
mircea_popescu: there is that.
nubbins`: consider the statement suitably modified
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the 128mb is the reason none of this flies. they all crawl so far.
nubbins`: but afaik there's no reason, say, gentoo wouldn't fly
nubbins`: arch, fwiw, has the most available documentation re: installing on pogoplug
danielpbarron: ascii was looking at netbsd for a time; there was some bug where it couldn't see the nand, plus we discovered nasty things about netbsd in general
mircea_popescu: ie, the os ?
danielpbarron: i was holding out for the thing that gets installed in the eeprom
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you there ?
mircea_popescu: wasn't the bulk of that "how to load the os on it" ?
mircea_popescu: what happened there ?
danielpbarron: ascii did not brew the OS i'm using
mircea_popescu: gotta go with an os brewed by someone with some experience so as to have at least a fighting chance the whole thing works.
mircea_popescu: dude this "let's try pluging things see what happens" approach only works if you actually test, and you're not tooled for the mindboggling thing this testing would be.
danielpbarron: but the dynamic bitcoind wouldn't work on it; this may be resolved with the "new bitcoind 32 bit"
mircea_popescu: but iirc, a lot of valuable effort went into selecting and pepraring the os. what do you mean "it could be debian" ?
danielpbarron: the static bitcoind might work on that
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> now, can we has static etc 32 bit ? << yeah. we'll put that at the top of the list.
nubbins`: seeya in the sky
nubbins`: the avionics systems haven't failed since last time, so we're pretty sure it may be fixed
mircea_popescu: they get it from a dead drop or something, and well, whatever. go to conferences.
mircea_popescu: basically, this would be prima facie evidence that the code the power rangers sign has very little to do with them.
mircea_popescu: they think "it may be fixed" because "anectodally" it doesn't seem to have displayed the behaviour.
danielpbarron: well i didn't start it from scratch; I copied .bitcoin from the sata one
assbot: Logged on 17-03-2015 15:07:01; mod6: anyway, it certainly is a goal to support x32. it'll just be in the next release. this has been dragging out too long.
danielpbarron: http://www.openbsd.org/images/poster31.jpg << theme for 5.5 was "back to the future" -- something about how 32 bit is a problem for unix time
danielpbarron: i mean, is the pogo being 32 bit a bigger problem? like is 32 bit becoming obsolete or something?
danielpbarron: thestringpuller, no way!
thestringpuller: is netbsd still going to be the pogo "base"?
mircea_popescu: mod6 so the emerging problem here is that while i said "ok" to 64 bit only foundation bitcoind, it turns out when need 32 bit support for our own fucking projects, which notably is the pogo.
mircea_popescu: o fucking hell check out the gross mismanagement i managed to bless the world with.
mircea_popescu: shit. don't tell me the pogos are 32bit ?!
mircea_popescu: so then the master here becomes, arch as per ascii, static as per current foundation release.
danielpbarron: yeah the current release is static
danielpbarron: it didn't exist at the time
danielpbarron: no, i compiled the dynamic foundation bitcoind
mircea_popescu: so basically, you put archlinux according to ascii_field's brew on the pogo, and then compiled a static foundation bitcoind and loaded that up, and that's what we have now ?
danielpbarron: i think another unsolved problem is that we don't know how to compile a linux kernel that works
mircea_popescu: is the current arch thing static ?
danielpbarron: and then later i found a guide for debian, but the bitcoind was still dynamic and wouldn't work on it
danielpbarron: there was already a guide written for getting it to work on arch
nubbins`: find any forum thread anywhere about pogoplugs being sold at these prices, most of the responses are "!!!!!!!!!"
nubbins`: nobody who can't follow some simple instructions to flash nand down the road and reclaim their SD card is gonna buy one anyway
nubbins`: if it's got a real version of bitcoind that works enough to use, all the better
nubbins`: all else aside, owning one of these pogos is an opportunity
BingoBoingo: Well, the pogo hardware was never marketed with multithreading
mircea_popescu: soo where them threads lead.
BingoBoingo: There's concurrent pogo threads
danielpbarron: i'm getting slaughtered at the supermarket
danielpbarron: especially with food costing what it does these days
danielpbarron: good to know there are other options; i woudln't mind supplementing my income
mircea_popescu: and enjoy the fucking TONEDEAF PARADE
danielpbarron: and get the orders ready for them
danielpbarron: ya, and schedule them
danielpbarron: i move millions of dollars worth of stuff over the course of a month or two
danielpbarron: "logistics" or w/e they call it
nubbins`: <+danielpbarron> would have to be shipped with SD card already configured if the end user is to just plug in a hard drive and forget about it <<< that is actually preferable for almost everyone who would buy this
mircea_popescu: stop wasting your time with whatever. you have any idea what shortage is for these ?
danielpbarron: would have to be shipped with SD card already configured if the end user is to just plug in a hard drive and forget about it
danielpbarron: the shortcoming is it's using ArchLinux, doesn't boot from eeprom, requires a great deal of user setup to get working
mircea_popescu: i haven't seen asciiart technical drawings in documents since the 90s.
nubbins`: i have pogo x2 on the way, i'm gonna dig into this
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what's the shortcoming again ?
danielpbarron: they are not up to the defined spec
mircea_popescu: cool. so then, these things are pretty much ready to launch are they ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: adding a problem++ to the list at the cost of a weekend is not on this list << astute observation, which is why my patch was specifically labeled as a proof to nail down the locus of the problem, and not an item to be used on the battlefield.
danielpbarron: one is solid state; other is 5400 rpm
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the way system engineering is done, is either do not fix a problem, or else fix the problem. adding a problem++ to the list at the cost of a weekend is not on this list.
danielpbarron: refresh, i just added the other
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron i meant, how are they different.
mod6: yeah, im talking about an all encompassing approach .. many small steps, the former.
ascii_field: mod6, mircea_popescu: depending on what it means to fix the leak (total replacement for block sync mechanism and a mathematical proof for it? or something more like my patch ?) it could take anywhere from a weekend to maxint days
mod6: Yes, Sir. Should have responded lastnight, just got distracted hacking together my obsd lappy.
assbot: Thermal Sidechannel Carries 8 Bits Per Hour in Proof of Concept | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1BL8t9o )
mod6: Our goal is to get this resolved, but I think it seriously is going to take some effort. Part of going forward from this release is going to be breaking down goals and getting them lined up. I have high hopes to discuss much of this at the Cnof.
mircea_popescu: yes and he's doing his job to the best of his abilities.
mircea_popescu: o look at those kulaks over there... THEY have to do things right.
ascii_field: they ought to have gone 100x faster.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: one of these things is not like the other, i think
mircea_popescu: mod6 i am of the same persuasion.
mircea_popescu: remind me, what are the configs on them ?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what was the current block count on those things ?
mircea_popescu: 40 mins is the new 2 weeks
BingoBoingo: <nubbins`> was bsd chosen because of smallest footprint or other? << small footprint no crud
nubbins`: was bsd chosen because of smallest footprint or other?
ascii_field: but iirc the device support of openbsd is a subset of netbsd's
danielpbarron: i got your netbsd kernel to boot on the pogo; this is possible with openbsd as well?
ascii_field: i would do it pro bono but haven't the time
ascii_field: (no support for the nand; bizarre bugs in other drivers)
danielpbarron: how hard would it be to get OpenBSD on a pogo? I've been idling in their channel but I'm not sure how productive it would be to just go "hey someone should start supporting this architecture for my pet project!"
ascii_field: noise sensitivity makes it hopeless in the wild
ascii_field: 'The two systems would then engage in a handshake, involving a sequence of “thermal pings” of +1C degrees each, to establish a connection. ' << stopped reading here
ascii_field: the receiver here is the built-in thermistor found in most servers
danielpbarron: nubbins`> it comes with a bobbaing 3-foot cat5! << most do; not all -- the power supply also varies in shape
ascii_field: i specifically mean that a node running bitcoincrashcrashcrash is dangerous to itself and others.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if you ask me, releasing the memleak version is lunacy
mircea_popescu: anyway, speaking of this, what was the status of teh pogo project ? we ready to bake ?
ascii_field: you can't get it without the extra bells & whistles
mircea_popescu: ascii_field but the 4gb is only because they run crud.
nubbins`: might be worth contacting /them/
ascii_field: (ethernet socket on other hand side, naturally)
ascii_field: and a socket on the side for another identical unit, for when the flash fills.
ascii_field: it holds the heatsink in place, and cradles the hdd
ascii_field: i'll add that the case is not merely decorative
ascii_field: and don't forget the steel heat sink in there
mircea_popescu: nubbins` the plastic casing is at least as valuable as the boards.
nubbins`: lel. i know, i mean actually having just the boards produced
mircea_popescu: hemeans just the boards.
ascii_field: nubbins`: probably ~19 usd forever until they run out
ascii_field: nubbins`: them's chumps paying
mircea_popescu: the blessing of suck these people have srsly...
ascii_field: but can be inferred from the port layout and the chipset in the spec sheet.
ascii_field: not revealed in the phoundation site, of course
ascii_field: i think i've identified the board
thestringpuller: just bad feeling seeing summer 2015 as their schedule and this aligns with gavin wanting to have enough dick's sucked to push his shit into github around then as well
ascii_field: the photo suggests something like a 'raspberry'
thestringpuller: ascii_field: snore for now, but if they start selling, they lower barrier to fork.
nubbins`: i.e. 0.5.3.2 should patch just the same
ascii_field: but otherwise snore
ascii_field: thestringpuller: if they were passing these out for tenbux each, then.
nubbins`: mod6 i should stress that *none* of the hardening options are included in that makefile, and it really should not be used for anything other than reference
thestringpuller: you see the bitnode news?
ascii_field: thestringpuller: hm ?
nubbins`: ben_vulpes mod6 mircea_popescu and other interested parties: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=uJQDaKcz
BingoBoingo: It's there
ascii_field: if it is anything like the training version of 'strela' (man-portable surface to air rocket from ru, whose manual was discussed in here a few wks ago) the training variant lets you lock onto and track a target, but doesn't fly or explode.
assbot: Spike (missile) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HABooQ )
Adlai: ... actually, there's a lot of new magic?
BingoBoingo: My guess is it is either for training pilots under load or training maintenance techs without a sapper's margin of error
Adlai: iirc some training ordnance also simulates in-flight behavior of the real thing
ascii_field: there is nothing 'magic' in them.
ascii_field: at any rate, such rockets have not really changed since the '70s
ascii_field: and one can presumably speak to them
ascii_field: judging only by the photo, the electronic components are in
ascii_field: mats: what precisely is the point of a training round rocket ?
cazalla: the only downside to es.qntra.net would be that it won't benefit from the mother, a subdomain is essentially a brand new site (in the eyes of google)
mats: ascii_field: i think so. i believe the tip is transparent like the 'Sidewinder'
BingoBoingo: cazalla: They moved most of that functionality into wordpress, better to separate the things at a moving parts level anyways
Adlai would call this a partly disassembled enclosure, the missile has its own insides too
ascii_field: mats: and is that a flir camera head in the left hand side? another golden toilet
cazalla: BingoBoingo, there's also wordpress multisite, but i have never used it
ascii_field: mats: what do these cost (assuming this was surplus ?)
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-03-2015#1067407 <<< i can figure it out, alternatively, another idea would be to just make another wordpress install in qntra.net/es/
mats: all the moar reason to sell pogos imo
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: to all of the people here.
ascii_field: i highly recommend reading the ucc winners
ascii_field: it's the one by S. Nicolussi
ascii_field: i could've sworn you discovered this very item in the actual wild
ascii_field: jurov: the rpm signature entry isn't yours by any chance ?
ascii_field: ... and one of the submissions is a pwning of actual wild openssl when an idiot uses dsa.
jurov: can i borrow the dog?
ascii_field: ^ i won't spoil the riddle here
ascii_field: 'It is my aim to set a new high-water mark for transparency in parameter generation. To that end, all of these values are nothing-up-my-sleeve numbers which I generated by singing the Bohemian Rhapsody backward with my dog barking in the background, digitizing the audio as an MP3 at a bitrate of 192kbit/s, and taking every 17th byte of the result. Their integrity can easily be verified by repeating this procedure.'
ascii_field: incidentally, one of the entries is a diddled ecc curve
jurov: known difference between the key values used in two signatures"
jurov: there's also ECDSA goodie "I have extended this attack to work in cases where there is a
ascii_field: 'Shows how this backdoor can completely pervert the security guarantees provided by the TLS protocol... even the presence of a single CA certificate with a secretly embedded backdoor in the certificate store would render the entire TLS security fictional...'
ascii_field: 'Provides a working implementation of a backdoor embedded into the RSA modulus of a Certification Authority public-key certificate and the code for a minimalistic client and server communicating over a TLS channel:'
ascii_field: used as part of an implementation of IPSec over IPv6 in a resource constrained IP stack. In such a case, under normal operation the library will perform properly, interoperating with other IPSec aes-ctr hosts. But when it is triggered by a forged ICMPv6 packet it will lead to a full plaintext reveal. Another forged ICMP packet will restore the conforming behavior so that normal packet retries will mask the improper
ascii_field: 'The library implements the AES block cipher in CTR mode and for the most part behaves as it is described in almost all circumstances it would normally be used in. Notably it passes all the FIPS and RFC test vectors for AES encoding and can interoperate with openssl. The library can be used in most any application where AES is needed and will behave appropriately. The library becomes exploitable specifically when it gets
jurov: and the motivation, too
jurov: http://animalous.com/ in the bottom, 33 reasons for lulz
ascii_field: the timing constraints are unforgiving.
ascii_field: even something as simple as dram is not, in practice, usable without the 'hard' blocks
ascii_field: mats: the way the story normally ends is that the reversed fpga becomes quasi-usable nearly the same time it goes out of print and replaced with incompatible version...
mats: how was their progress?
ascii_field: mats: neato, there was a similar project for xilinx 'virtex'
ascii_field: trinque: basic tradecraft - the more shocking the exploit, the louder will be the cry when it is discovered; the more victims - the sooner it ends up on, e.g., my desk, or that of 100,000 other folks who can pry it open
trinque: ascii_field: makes sense though that they would treat these like fire-once weapons
trinque: that led me to believe that they infect everyone, make almost all dormant
trinque: ascii_field: hm, I took the hard drive firmware situation to mean malware could hide and resurface without being detectable at the OS level
danielpbarron: so then the argument is "don't use iphone at all" which is a much more sensible argument
nubbins`: danielpbarron "but if the gps app is closed source, it could be sending your location to the NSA" 8)8)8)8)8)
ascii_field: trinque: part of the NSA botnet << most of us will live and die without having the honour of an 0day spent (yes, they're used up when used, think about it) on our sorry hides
danielpbarron: the only software ecosystem that matters is right in here and i don't see it getting harmed by us paying for a gps app on our phones
trinque: and now I'm part of the NSA botnet
trinque: or the parts are completely open and NSA spent infinite money discovering hardware flaws
ascii_field: there is no sensible 'pNohe', we already knew this
nubbins`: thanks for having a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem, judas
danielpbarron: in the time it takes to unlock phone and open text app, i could have already written the idea down
nubbins`: you buying a car has the same effect
trinque: funkenstein_: you can moralize about any step in the supply chain of the thing
nubbins`: me buying a handheld garmin has a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem
danielpbarron: i don't care about the principle of the thing -- that a text input without cruft should just come with the thing
funkenstein_: even though it has a detrimental effect on distribution and the software ecosystem
trinque: soon as there's a fully open and documented phone/computer, I'll buy that too
nubbins`: no, you're there and i'm here
danielpbarron: the better argument may be "don't use the kind of device that has an app store" or something
nubbins`: is there anyone present who would take on the job of finding me a piece of software compatible with my needs, for $2.40?
funkenstein_: danielpbarron did you send the 120 to an appstore?
ascii_field: (as i'm sure many others here have)
danielpbarron: yeah i really don't mind paying for nice things, software or otherwise

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