asciilifeform: mats: if you treat 'rowhammering' as a statistical phenomenon, instead of allowing the enemy to induce arbitrary memory access patterns on the machine, it is considerably easier to deal with.
asciilifeform: as they shouldn't be.
asciilifeform: the folks with xxxxx will not be convinced.
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn. exactly like wines. <<< exactly like *everything*. you'll mollify some rubes with "prosumer" but that's really just $50 with more chrome
Chillum: but I think that would invalidate the contract
Chillum: yes, in theory it could change after it is checked though
mircea_popescu: there is yes.
asciilifeform: 'skin in the game' problem
Chillum: what if the error happens in your cpu or hard drive cache?
asciilifeform: anyway there is a reason i don't work on wallets
asciilifeform: esp. the '90s collectibles you and i are fond of
Chillum: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WcHsT97suU <-- due to cosmic rays you should always expect the possibility of a bit flipping at random in your memory
asciilifeform: i actually don't much like the rf-loudness of pc
mircea_popescu: of the most common, ordinary or typical kind.
mircea_popescu: i don't imagine the wallet can ever be anything but pc.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see, if we're gedankenexperimenting about a mass-produced equivalent of 'pogo', then unreliable hardware can be rationalized, 'отряд не заметил потери бойца' (TM) - what's one flipped bit. if we're gedankening about a 'wallet' - whole other ball game
mircea_popescu: it's either consumer 50 or else spend 5mn.
mircea_popescu: mats these aren't really intended to be multiuser systems.
asciilifeform: so it may be a 'if not you then who' situation.
mircea_popescu: either that or time will resolve.
asciilifeform: this bodes ill for use of off-the-shelf si.
asciilifeform: need ecc ram controller then
nubbins`: as they discharge tear gas canisters point-blank into faces :0
nubbins`: mircea_popescu students were protesting funding cuts. in a couple of the photos, you can see police wearing stickers protesting... pension cuts.
asciilifeform: see, when i use memory, and put bits in, i expect to get them out later.
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 15:36:51; nubbins`: lel, protestors have started doxxing the riot police
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076730 << what's the protest over ?
asciilifeform: most of the ones i've purchased and cut open thus far have very similar 8 to 16-bit wide sdram (ddr2 typically) - almost always 'hynix' or samsung
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 15:10:24; thestringpuller: I'm thinking of making a bot to determine uptime of other bots ;)
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076709 << then you explained it and she was all http://www.quickmeme.com/img/28/2811d1ad07d6a35d4acb0b245abaac396ffaa4c233cac0d55a7987ebfc8d425b.jpg
asciilifeform: 'this' being the certain doom of pogo as off-the-shelf machine? yes, it is necessary to do something. main boojum is the ram-poverty of most available hardware in that weight class.
asciilifeform: (it was pretty clear right off the bat that it's a loss-leader and ergo nonrenewableresource)
mircea_popescu: i suspect on the score of electronics you actually beat my ppls.
mircea_popescu: i'd much rather see honest sexual slavery than this bs "random bad ideas" exploitation.
mircea_popescu: and it's not in -otc for the reason any bot is not in any channel : admin didn't ask for it.
Chillum: sometimes they turn out to be good ideas
asciilifeform: Chillum: then you need new clients
Chillum: mircea_popescu: without the freedom to make mistakes you are forever under the tyranny of those who are "correct"
Chillum: frankly if I told my clients that they need to use an air-gap they would tell that it does not fit their business model. They would be right
mircea_popescu: but the freedom to make mistakes is a luxury not a freedom.
Chillum: freedom is the freedom to make mistakes. If people want to pay for something I will give it to them. I give free advice, it is rarely taken
punkman: there are kirkwoods without BGA?
Chillum: mircea_popescu: they hire me as a developer, not a consultant
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can see the case for this not being that commodified just yet. but imo unavoidable, with the trend towards it of which raspberry is just a reflection.
nubbins`: or w/e the fuck
asciilifeform: the other day i checked out what other system-on-chips might be cut-tapeable and have integrates sata, found nothing
asciilifeform: nubbins`: this is my working hypothesis, marvell doesn't sell cut-tape
nubbins`: asciilifeform sort of the thing where you need a foot in the door before they'll even price it out for you
mircea_popescu: the golden standard on ic sourcing is not some derpy valley website.
Chillum: then complained when it dropped to a penny
asciilifeform: 'marvell' per se doesn't turn up much either.
Chillum: they insisted
Chillum: we would get two customer who wanted their price to be 1 cent below everyone else and we tried to explain that since they are not the only person doing it that they would drop to a penny
Chillum: using massive arrays of cloud computers to reprice books as fast as possible compared to the market
asciilifeform: https://octopart.com/search?q=marvell%20%2088F6192 << interestingly, it's either extinct or octo (a paul graham co.!) lies, lies.
mircea_popescu: o wait i forgot, 20mb won't be used, it just needs to be there to not be used. right right.
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> make a $100 node << 100 buys a pogo and a reasonable solid state sata <<< 64gb on the way, should get me through to the summer at least
Chillum: I have a lot of Pi 2s to setup right now. I will look into the pogos though
Chillum: they work better in little tribes
Chillum: I will either want 0 or 10+, I rarely get 1 of any small computer
Chillum: I am going to read up on them first. Thanks
trinque: asciilifeform: ah ok, other than this I have pis
asciilifeform: (buildroot demands nothing but your platform's native gcc and takes it from there until the bitter end, the actual armv5 images)
mircea_popescu: blkindex0016 almost full, which brings the following issue :
asciilifeform: trinque: by all means build cross-compiler for your system, but when i put the buildroot thing up it will carry its own
trinque: what's the latest compile 0.5.3.1 for pogo doc, if any?
asciilifeform: i meant, in the machines
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: no other differences ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: old buggered mechanical satas aren't quite as nice, but certainly usable. the thing definitely sources sufficient amps for them
mircea_popescu: they suck for different reasons tho.
trinque: danielpbarron: there's neutering wordpress or using some static site generator
trinque: ben_vulpes | now i want a directory! << here comes the #b-a gopher site
mircea_popescu: buy a pogo try it out, look into the past week's log it's full of people working on it, danielpbarron posted some excellent guides.
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> wouldja believe this is the first piece of kit i've modded that /isn't/ a synthesizer? << notice the unpopulated row of pins at bottom end of pcb? those are gpio's and you can attach random strange to them
nubbins`: i actually just mistakenly wiped the bootcmd env variable
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076664 << Chillum currently we're using the pogos for ~19 dollar nodes.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: http://imgur.com/dR3tx16 << technically it wasn't really -bricked- unless you had to do the boot-via-xmodem thing
asciilifeform: tried soldering a sata on see what happens ? << it is quite likely missing some of the passives too
mircea_popescu: I KNEW nubbins` is trying to stuff the weed ballot.
asciilifeform: send>40 faux usg academics up the river for 20+ eyars << weren't they chinese? or is this a different set of hucksters this time
asciilifeform speaking to pet is most of the way unintelligible to bystanders, for instance
asciilifeform did this to the folks he works with in meatspace, also to some extent
Chillum: I used to pick up pager signals with my scanner and decode them through my sound card.
funkenstein_: Chillum, what kind of chip you have in there, a Dorrito?
fluffypony: time to save my game...*presses record on the tape player*
Chillum: you know the sound
Chillum: I rocked the vic20
mircea_popescu: nubbins` ain't fixing something great ? almost better than having made it in the first place!
Chillum: usenet for the win!
nubbins`: oh, and guess who just un-bricked their pogo? http://imgur.com/dR3tx16 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dmveVt3N
Chillum: lol I remember how bad trading files with IRC and FTP was, then I how bad bittorrent was
mircea_popescu: felipelalli prolly ask fluffypony i think he's the only one here keeping an eye on monero.
mircea_popescu: ftr, for the new souls : torrents were originally dismissed on the strength of how bad the shit / code was originally, as "this'll never work"
mircea_popescu: consensus is the sort of thing in bitcoind is probably a lead cause of abortion, lead poisoning, fetal alcohol syndrome and the woes of the rings of saturn
nubbins`: yeah, they're different boards
assbot: Logged on 28-03-2015 14:43:57; Chillum: Glad it is still being worked on. But frankly I would like to see a complete re-write of the client
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076637 << happens to be the eventual goal of the foundation.
nubbins`: there's no mounting holes on this pcb for the top usb port, either, so it's entirely possible the mobile and series4 have different pcbs
nubbins`: altho it looks like they're connected to traces.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076596 << i dun think we want one, but if you wish to be the b-a ambassador into the midwest... that and india possibly the only places that need an embassy from la serenissima. and candi's got the india.
mircea_popescu: long history of this schmuckerdom, who was that polyanna something chick that was doing the "Bitcoin chamber of commerce" ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: +Chillum | I can understand it. It is removing a security layer, presumably for speed << the whole RPC thing will likely come out, not for speed but for blowtorching complexity
mircea_popescu: now on the other hand if they happened to you know, do that unspeakable crime aaron schwartz kid's guilty of...
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076586 << also a criminal entreprise, but something tells me tough on his bosses enemies bharara isn't about to bust out the rico and send>40 faux usg academics up the river for 20+ eyars a head.
mircea_popescu: "Sat across from a serious man. Hes sunken himself into the soft underbelly of a woman. A fox, true 1960 pussy. Her silver hair knotted in a fat bun, loose upon her neck. "
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-03-2015#1076568 << am i the only one who finds the fact that nubbins` had to put FOUR excuses to doing a blog in the blog fucking domain hysterical ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes their wot died under consumerismo-socialism & peron.
ben_vulpes: first, you had to learn to lead by following at the leads practicas, then they'd teach you to lead, then eventually you'd get to go to the milongas.
ben_vulpes: nominally, at one point in history, you weren't allowed to lead at a milonga until you'd been more or less given permission from the other leads in town.
ben_vulpes: i was actually musing on the absence of any leads-only tango practicas in town
mircea_popescu: strawman. the EXPRESSION is. not me.
mircea_popescu: dude. i been despising their local accent and doing the proper y = ll thing, but im totally going to say it as bishinghurst
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, anyone care to guess the name of the street my office's on ? its a food item.
ben_vulpes: by the way what is up with billinghurst
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that's nothing, he's permeating harem speech. yest i was waffling over whether to go to icecream place, girl goes "well not like we gotta go and get the imensatron necessarily". ie, we could get a smaller tub. but no - imensaTRON!!1
nubbins`: mircea_popescu it's not his fault that conspiracy theory concepts are good metaphors for the actual missed points
Chillum: a hand crafted index of the internet?
ben_vulpes: yeah, let's bring back the directories!
mircea_popescu: like the nyt review of books, but for websites.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, it's a handcrafted list.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes they still use algorithmics for the outskirts. which is why the "long tail" revolution happened in seo.
ben_vulpes: who sez they don't use algos anymore, eh?
mircea_popescu: (the funniest thing about this is that not having read the logs, he can't help but wonder about it lol)
mircea_popescu: of course the jews did 911
Chillum: and of course the jews did 911
mircea_popescu: Chillum i understand how the stupidity defends itself - like any other. what encuriouses me is... how does it get born.
Chillum: oh ya the lizards
nubbins`: the satellite launches are hoaxes
mircea_popescu: but by now ? how the fuck would you think it's flat. "because it looks flat from space" ?
mircea_popescu: dude how the fuck.
Chillum: we deal with flat earthers on a daily basis
mircea_popescu: nubbins` formulate plan : only invite potheads to b-a. nubbins` looks upon results : good good goood!
Chillum: I have been an admin on wikipedia for 8 years, the thin skinned ones die out
nubbins`: others 8)
mircea_popescu: the wot works perfectly well on any scale larger than where a democracy breaks down
mircea_popescu: Chillum you gotta understand how the wot works.
Chillum: otherwise people will volunteer for free hardware
Chillum: Instead of renting servers send cheap computers to volunteers for free. Will be cheaper in the long run
asciilifeform once had a full-blown build of xorg and other userland under cygwin, when worked in usg and forced to use winblows box
mircea_popescu: Chillum i was thinking, get the naked ladies to do specials.
Chillum: having a crate of computers is great. Having them all work on the same problem at the same time is awesome
asciilifeform: Chillum: pretty much everyone reading this has fiber to the grounds and a crate of small computers, just as happenstance
mircea_popescu: did i post the crates of pogos anywhere or not yet ?
Chillum: I got 5 Pi 2s and 10 more on the way
Chillum: I could offer raspberry pis, but you would need to VPN your own internet connection to them, I don't want bitcoin/irc dudes using my home internet lulz
asciilifeform: aws is the 'mcdonalds' of hosting.
asciilifeform: Chillum: can't speak for others but i in particular am interested specifically in migrating -from- aws
mircea_popescu: the idea is to get bare metal.
Chillum: but if there is demand and a willingness to pay a reasonable markup
Chillum: well the issue with bitcoin hosting is lack of accountability. The guy who is renting the servers to the bitcoin anon will get the abuse complaints when they spam
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Chillum: you do realize that some of the most successful internet companies are low margin right?
Chillum: the owner relies on it being low maintenance in order for it to be profitable
asciilifeform believes that 'meatgap' would be a more descriptive term for the concept
Chillum: consider the use case of a service that rents say minecraft servers by the hour. The user need to be able to establish a balance and later withdraw their balance when they are done in a reasonable amount of time
asciilifeform: (note to n00bs - this is a good place to point out that the 'air' in an airgap is more than physical concept: i.e. a machine controlled via radio in real time is not 'airgapped')
Chillum: most companies want tools that work without their intervention
mircea_popescu: an airgap is merely a golden standard BECAUSE it disallows automation. there's ipso definitio no automated airgap.
mircea_popescu: Chillum not to pry into your soul here, but mind describing the cause of the need for automation ?
Chillum: ben_vulpes: That is always a risk with a hot wallet, but if the system needs to be automated then what is the alternative?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: well something has to poke the wallet in an automated fashion
nubbins`: mircea_popescu as seen in my latest submit: "Follow these instructions at your own peril, and upon risk of divestment, dismemberment, or death."
mircea_popescu: firewalls are finnicy to setup, but once correctly setup on a linux box they're reliable.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: feel free to lift the ascii jolly roger from http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000038.html for the warning banner...
mircea_popescu: the number of random people trying random things will exponential
mircea_popescu: Chillum : better plan, sign your txn off the hot box, import them there through private connection.
ben_vulpes: perhaps throw an error on boot if someone tries to use the tls flags.
asciilifeform: nah he read the patches and upchucked
ben_vulpes: me neither.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would be hilarious if someone found, built, then cried
Chillum: It was recommended to me by two people here before I read the patches
asciilifeform: Chillum: at present there is no chance of a 'civilian' stumbling upon 0.5.3.1 and putting it to use
mircea_popescu: Chillum yeah. like, you know, how the bitcoin wallets were plaintext for... i dunno, 3years or so.
ben_vulpes: if you *want* to run it, and *can* read the provided documentation, do so.
Chillum: avoiding the need for encryption on the API through sound security practices is one thing. Recommending something without encryption without describing those practices is a recipe for disaster.
mircea_popescu: not like there's any rush. and generally, the stuff you're used to worrying about holds no sway here. so.. .jus relax an' enjoy.
Chillum: I will read _some_ of the logs later
Chillum: I am interested in other ideas, it is just a bit hard to understand what your best practices are
Chillum: I would love to read an essay describing the sort of infractructure you find safe
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski and read their own dbs and advanced shit like that!
mircea_popescu: Hope you are doing well. I am a client services manager here at AdMedia. I was wondering if there might be a possible partnership opportunity between our two companies. We have previously and recently ran campaigns for trilema.com via third party networks. We wanted to discuss the opportunity of working directly
mircea_popescu: in other news,
ben_vulpes: the thing calling into your wallet is also an attack point
Chillum: if the built in API is really that insecure I suppose I can write an access layer
mircea_popescu: and whatever customers may "have come to expect", bitcoin is too valuable to cater to that in breach of security and safety. so, options that are by their nature insecure shouldn't be provided at all.
funkenstein_: then you are using ssl
mircea_popescu: Chillum generally, the idea being that running a wallet client and a bitcoin node on the same system (let alone in the same program) is beyond idiotic.
Chillum: how would you import a key into a wallet if not with the API?
Chillum: also when using the API we will be passing private keys
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski is that actually the guy ? who even made mycellium ?
Chillum: the cert system is for sure
Chillum: funkenstein_: you don't. Buy when you contact the API and provide your API keys you want that encyrpted
mircea_popescu: Chillum the problem is we know ssl to be intentionally misimplemented. as you say, on layers.
funkenstein_: for example if i am trying to publish a transaction to the world with my wallet, why would i encrypt it before sending?
Chillum: you can control the keys in ssl. You don't have to use existing authority chains you can make your own
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ ssl is for any application where security theatre is +ev and security itself doesn't matter.
asciilifeform: Chillum: even this - improvement. because you control the keys.
asciilifeform: Chillum: if you are presently living in a one-bit universe where the only two choices for hotwallet control are ssl and plaintext - first you have to consider moving out of that universe and into a neighbouring one, where there are other choices
Chillum: if you were not using a wallet then I agree SSL is pointless
ben_vulpes: there is more context in this channel than dreamt of in all of reddit, Chillum
mircea_popescu: Chillum have you seen the numerous cases where we pass back and forth "plaintext" over pastebin here ?
mircea_popescu: Chillum definitely can run whatever the heck you please.
asciilifeform: Chillum: you can run feathercoin on tops-10 for all we care
funkenstein_: nokia was caught capturing all ssl traffic through their networks at one point
mircea_popescu: Chillum just all the ones you should practically care about.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ incidentally, about 5x better than sending someone to go listen to something is transcribing the something so they can read it.
Chillum: not all attackers are people in dark server rooms with ciggerette smoking g men behind them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no but did read the table of directorates circa 2003 (see log ~6mo ago)
funkenstein_: Chillum, go listen to moxie marlinspike's talks on the topic
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you wrote the meta-nsa micromanagement three ring binder too ?