thestringpuller: blockexplorer is Thermos's thing
mircea_popescu: then don't link it
jurov: wtf "The following USE changes are necessary to proceed:"
mircea_popescu: ie, every false prophet to date is looking upon the same sky, and will readily interpret whatever happens there in whatever terms they figure would make them look least like an idiot.
mircea_popescu: incidentally asciilifeform, what would you say is the difference between orlov as quoted and the fiction of the "imperialist burgeois" as classically described (1890s, even) ?
nubbins`: butchered the poor enclosure, but hey.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu HEH. the first and last time i used test-lead wires for a permanent project.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 17:03:51; chetty: <Chillum> the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk// for some reason when I read that I wondered if anyone would trust a cert issued by Obama? If not why would you accept one from any 'lesser' authority in the same chain?
mircea_popescu: btw, speaking of guilds : they actually survive to an amazing extent. outfitters in canada for a very good example.
asciilifeform: when i ran across the 2MB linksys, my thought was 'linux is obese if can't fit in 2MB'
asciilifeform: they actually re-issued it a few yrs back
mircea_popescu: sysadmin at the time was "you don't buy "a router". write this down : linksys wrt54g"
nubbins`: open the thing up, wire up a couple resistors and DIN5 jacks, and you've got a full-featured midi voice
asciilifeform: and the product faded away
asciilifeform: this is rather reminiscent of how the famous linksys wrt54g hyper-bestseller slowly shrank and shrank, from 16 and then 8 and then 4 (even 2!) MB of ram, linux could no longer be used on it
nubbins` owns a synth that has MIDI in/out capabilities baked into cpu, but mfg didn't waste the extra $2 on MIDI ports
asciilifeform: and, the successor to this (out of print) machine is quite similar but no sata.
asciilifeform: for instance, there was at one point a pogo entirely like this one but 256M.
Chillum: they should just have a physical "root access" switch on the box. Leaving backdoors for people to find is reckless
mircea_popescu: nubbins` we can now just capture the packets and "activate" any pogo anywhere on the basis of another pogo can't we.
asciilifeform: it is interesting that the actual contents of the can has been shrinking continuously over the years
nubbins`: TBH i think they did include rootability as a hobbyist bonus, AND they made way, way too many
mircea_popescu: resulting in a transfer of value from the dudes to us.
nubbins`: asciilifeform you log into website, "activate" pogo, then can enable ssh login via website
mircea_popescu: my explanation is that because of the standardization of everything, the makers just made them "as they're made" ie prevailing bs (business standards) and the buyers bought and marketed them "As they're marketed"
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, ironically, this item was bought as a loss leader, and so, it would specifically NOT be wanted to be used this way.
Chillum: I think that sometimes companies intentionally make their devices rootable because they know hobbyists will buy boxes of them if they can root it
asciilifeform: nubbins`: notice how nobody here bothered with the 'request unlock' thing or even knows if it ever worked
nubbins`: there's also a built-in "request unlock from pogo" thing
mircea_popescu: srsly now. this theory of yours would be perhaps appealing had i not spent any time on a set.
mircea_popescu: dude, you're telling me that first jew boy with the rolling eyes and the slow repeating the task is putting out an act ?
asciilifeform: from orlov's 'lessons' ( http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/062805_soviet_lessons_part2.shtml )
asciilifeform: them against each other, while trying to portray themselves as super-achieving entrepreneurial mavericks who can't be pinned down to a mere set of marketable skills.'
asciilifeform: ive on the subject of money, and cultivate a posh country set atmosphere, even if they are just one generation out of the coal mines. Ask them to solve a technical problem and they will politely demur, often taking the opportunity to flash their wit with a self-deprecating joke or two. ... The natives at the top always try to standardize the job descriptions and lower the pay scale of the immigrants at the bottom, playing
asciilifeform: 'I have had a chance to observe quite a few companies in the U.S. from the inside, and have spotted a certain constancy in the staffing profile. At the top, there is a group of highly compensated senior lunch-eaters. They tend to spend all of their time pleasing each other in various ways, big and small. They often hold advanced degrees in disciplines such as Technical Schmoozing and Relativistic Bean-counting. They are obsess
mircea_popescu: it really is a great montage that, what with the bovine derping about how "we ARE" etc.
Chillum: so you open the port to ssh, but how do you get root?
Chillum: nubbins`: neat, I assume you open the telnet port?
asciilifeform: 30 years later in this process the fucking mit grads can't make a flashlight << aha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but there is genetic indication of suinity.
nubbins`: <+Chillum> you can open ports on a lot of routers by using ajax to make a http post that looks like IRC commands <<< this is actually how you root the pogo without attaching a serial cable
mircea_popescu: but anyway, even wioth the arts, the distinction holds : the patron has no particular taste, merely money and friends.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: "is luser luser because on windoze, << the older version of this was, iirc, 'do styes make pigs' ?
mircea_popescu: patron-client relationship is what i tought you meant, off the ancient post-imperial and late-imperial model.
Adlai: doesn't sound like a Patron of the Arts to me
Adlai: yeh, rule by the patrons. those who can afford to patronize, as opposed to - serfs
mircea_popescu: they ALL own fleshlights tho.
mircea_popescu: and i mean... the fact that us young adults score worse than anyone else is not a direct product. they worked to get there : the school's so dumb, why learn ; the kids aren't learning anyway why not make it dumber... 30 years later in this process the fucking mit grads can't make a flashlight
mircea_popescu: leaving us to wonder whether the stupid tools drive the stupidity of the people, or stem from the stupidity of the people involved.
chetty: <mircea_popescu> 90% of lines were "hello x", 90% of the remainder "so how's it going". maybe 1 in 4 hello-handshakes succeeded, and less than 1 in 100 went past 2nd pass.//roughly matching avg. attention spans
mircea_popescu: 90% of lines were "hello x", 90% of the remainder "so how's it going". maybe 1 in 4 hello-handshakes succeeded, and less than 1 in 100 went past 2nd pass.
Adlai: generally the participants of such institutions only attend due to coercion, whether physical or implied
mircea_popescu: have you seen the content ?
mircea_popescu: which is what the forum oughta be.
asciilifeform: Chillum: we routinely 'argue with recordings' of one another. this is how #b-a folk handle the fact that not everyone lives at his computer
mircea_popescu: Chillum i'm just going through the logs. pretty much everyone here reads the whole shebang.
gribble: BTCChina | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 9299.7167 bitcoins, for a total of 648197043008.7280 USD and take the price to 16100000000000.0000. | Data vintage: 0.0283 seconds
mircea_popescu: they just happen to be the wrong policies by the wrong people for the wrong purposes is all.
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 16:50:28; Chillum: the math is solid regardless of implementation failures/sabotage
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078823 << there's no math behind either ssl or pki, or the usg for that matter. they are political arrangements, "sets of procedures and people" and whatnot.
gribble: Bitstamp | This order would exceed the size of the order book. You would buy 10726.054 bitcoins, for a total of 12929272.3986 USD and take the price to 99999.0000. | Data vintage: 0.0557 seconds
gribble: Bitfinex | A market order to buy 15000 bitcoins right now would take 4130303.4623 USD and would take the last price up to 344.9000 USD, resulting in an average price of 275.3536 USD/BTC. | Data vintage: 0.0044 seconds
asciilifeform: the config thing lives at a certain offset (forget where) in mtd0
asciilifeform: incidentally, the uboot fw_xxxx tools are very simple:
asciilifeform: can safely toss the pieces of shit with systemd, etc. now.
asciilifeform: if you copy the uboot tools to a writable external disk
mircea_popescu: the bug in pki is that any system designed or proposed by any party other than us is security poison.
asciilifeform: this one isn't as neat as it sounds. i thought BR_PACKAGE_UBOOT_TOOLS will add with fw_xxxxx on the target rootfs but seems like no. these will have to be added as packages
jurov: hahaha so the husqvarna joke works well
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me... don't these dating speshulists sound very much like the classical shaman ? "you are under a terrible dark curse kind sir" "i will fix it".
mircea_popescu: what you do is, you look for zombies. all it takes is a good archive of vulns and a working grep. then you take your chances.
mircea_popescu: something the imbecillians (is it ok if i refer to people born in the 80s as the imbecillians, given the poor results discussed yest ? generation y seems improper) all forgot.
Chillum: javascript can induce a browser to send a post that tricks the router into thinking it is that
Chillum: some routers automatically open a port when they see a DCC command on sent from an internal computer on an IRC port
asciilifeform: the traditional bitcoind (see code) asked a peer to attempt connect-back on 8333
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:59:56; Chillum: I don't trust pdfs, so many vulnerabilities in the past
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078769 << check it out ? neither do we. ongoing bitchfest about "pls to convert" scattered in logs.
asciilifeform: at least in the civilian version
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no i know, i was just amused at ther possible solutions :D
asciilifeform: incidentally, the upnp demon will need to be thrown in
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:48:55; asciilifeform: did we ever get anywhere in the ntp-or-not debate ?
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 15:45:38; asciilifeform: otherwise all pogos will have the same one (it is not stored in any kind of nonvolatile memory)
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 11:21:32; jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-03-2015#1078206 yes, that was the joke :)
asciilifeform: Chillum: if so, why not stick to the considerably less dysfunctional ssh ?
Chillum: you don't have to put verisign at the top
chetty: <Chillum> the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk// for some reason when I read that I wondered if anyone would trust a cert issued by Obama? If not why would you accept one from any 'lesser' authority in the same chain?
Chillum: the whole hierarchy of trust used to issue certs is of course bunk
Chillum: if you take out key management and such, how do you feel about the actual crypto?
asciilifeform: it is rather like pointing to a grain of sand in a turd, and advocating shit as a construction material because 'that grain is solid'
Chillum: the math is solid regardless of implementation failures/sabotage
Chillum: okay, gub'mint backdoor then
asciilifeform: Chillum: i'm not certain that any of the #b-a regulars believe it to have been a bug.
asciilifeform: <Chillum> Routers are a sad state of affair. Something like 70% of consumer wifi routers in the wild are vulnerable to heartbleed << and a fella who knows this, is still fond of ssl ? amazing
Chillum: erase the eprom
Chillum: I sort of want to make a portable rasp-pi that automatically roots and then secures wifi routers, as a public service
Chillum: just based off what I have seen in the wild around here
jurov: that's why nerds should maintain them themselves, and i don't mean reflash openwrt and forget
Chillum: most run arch linux under the hood, often about 10 years old
Chillum: it is the linux box that nobody upgrades!
Chillum: Routers are a sad state of affair. Something like 70% of consumer wifi routers in the wild are vulnerable to heartbleed
Chillum: hacking routers is good practice. They don't fight back
Chillum: openwrt can be rooted too, particularly from the internal network
jurov: why so few nerds set up their own linux router?
Chillum: they can go from your malware friendly computer, root your router and live there between you and the internet
Chillum: I have a live cd and a laptop with no other storage I use for such things
Chillum: I don't trust pdfs, so many vulnerabilities in the past
asciilifeform: did we ever get anywhere in the ntp-or-not debate ?
asciilifeform: rather than a mega-turd each, if diffing from a virginal buildroot
asciilifeform: i will suggest that all subsequent patches for buildroot per se, be published as diffs from the one i posted last night
asciilifeform: otherwise all pogos will have the same one (it is not stored in any kind of nonvolatile memory)
asciilifeform: also need to set mac address of the nic
nubbins`: "The various tarballs that are downloaded by Buildroot are all stored in BR2_DL_DIR, which by default is the dl directory. If you want to keep a complete version of Buildroot which is known to be working with the associated tarballs, you can make a copy of this directory. This will allow you to regenerate the toolchain and the target filesystem with exactly the same versions."
assbot: Logged on 29-03-2015 00:34:21; mod6: <+jurov> my mom was using "husqvarna" << they make my favorite chainsaws / best chainsaws imho
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "The Winkdex: BTC $5000 or more in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1104/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 9(Y):91(N) by weight. Total bet: 113.1868 BTC. Current weight: 77,122.
Naphex: we'll also have product presentation and some other fun stuff at http://www.awsummit.com/ro/ ;p
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Naphex: so i just stopped the contract and moved to a normal DC
Naphex: i tried out some BTC provider and they had a stupid rule of cutting the upstream when you get more then 65k packets/s
mircea_popescu: i was gonna send that indian chick your way but then you weren't online
Naphex: mircea_popescu going good. going into pre-registers while using the amount of time left to polish :D
mircea_popescu: how's the meat trade ?
fluffypony: Naphex: they're retarded
nubbins`: get with the program
ben_vulpes: Chillum: it bears mentioning that i use the same rendering stack for irc as i do for programming
Chillum: monospaced for the win!
mircea_popescu: drive the chinese farms out of the business of creating fake "users" and "reviews" and whatnot for the sv bezzleworld.
mircea_popescu: so here's an idle thought : one could import apple into the pogo, create an autovote application for 20 dollars a device
decimation: I can't test it, but there were no bad-looking warnings
decimation: basically a group of 5 italians disagree about who should profit on the whole affair
decimation: "The other “Arduino” used to be called Smart Projects and was the manufacturing arm of the project founded and run by [Gianluca Martino]. Smart Projects changed their name to Arduino SRL in November 2014. (A “Società a responsabilità limitata” is one form of Italian limited-liability company.) They have been a major producer of Arduino boards from the very beginning and recently registered the domain arduino.org."
decimation: "In short, there are two companies calling themselves “Arduino” at the moment. One, Arduino LLC was founded by [Massimo Banzi], [David Cuartielles], [David Mellis], [Tom Igoe] and [Gianluca Martino] in 2009, runs the website arduino.cc, and has been directing and releasing the code that makes it all work. Most of these folks had been working together on what would become the Arduino project since as early as 2005."
asciilifeform: in the original.
decimation: ah I might have skipped the make pogoplug_defconfig setup
asciilifeform: odd then.
asciilifeform: decimation: are you sure you are building with the patch ?
asciilifeform: bitcoind probably ought to run as other than root.
asciilifeform: you can do this with the file system overlay (see patch and readme) or using buildroot's spiffy user generator (can't help here, never tried)
asciilifeform: oh and another missing ingredient
decimation: okay I think my build error is something to do with the shitty vm cross-mount filesystem and case sensitivity
asciilifeform: (symlinked to the usual names)
asciilifeform: for the build, it uses local machine's tar.
asciilifeform: for the armv5 os, that is
decimation: I mean tar isn't on the manifest
asciilifeform: can be cut from the buildroot conf.
asciilifeform: trinque: i like to mark code that folks can use to kill themselves, with it
trinque: asciilifeform: patch makes sense, and lol @ skull and crossbones around the telnet in inittab
asciilifeform: make sure it pulled down the same tarballs
decimation: ah, the linux 3.18.1 headers
asciilifeform: ('nope' as in, i did not patch anything remotely close to there)
asciilifeform: or rather,
asciilifeform: there was a time when folks would have -killed- for 128M.
asciilifeform: trinque: and now that you baked, read the patch. it will begin to make sense.
trinque: I merely baked from the recipe
trinque: I just copied it over what was already in the tftp dir
trinque: built with buildroot, ignore the filename
trinque: because I'm a lazy fuck and copied the thing over that filename instead of updating uboot
asciilifeform: thus we get almost the entire 128M to play with
asciilifeform: ^ some of the 7.7M is the kernel, but most is the ramdisk, which won't exist in the battlefield version
mircea_popescu: oh for crying out loud. yo trinque didntcha say you got rid of the url limiting thing ?
asciilifeform: there we go.
mod6: iirc i had to put my pubkey in a dpaste and then do something like `deedbot-: import <dpaste-url>`
mircea_popescu: just link it to the bot
mod6: is your key imported into the bot?
asciilifeform: the dl directory
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i mean, you can trivially make -from the net- = localhost
asciilifeform: and ultimately stronger, because nothing snarfed in from the os
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: buildroot builds and uses own toolchain, in a kind of jail. so it is very convenient to have the whole thing build inside it
asciilifeform: 2) study the package system. the dependencies of bitcoind would ideally be added as packages
asciilifeform: 1) freezing the sourceballs in time
decimation: shit no nevermind I was in the wrong terminal and accidently built on osx :)
asciilifeform: if you have serial port (or the netconsole thing set up)
nubbins`: <+cazalla> while i await danielpbarron's response, anyone want to suggest why the pogo flashes green after following his guide after a reboot? <<< i fucked up setting some of the fw_setenv parameters. you'll prolly need to serial into it, next time use fw_printenv to double check all your boot cmds before you commit
asciilifeform: Linux therealbitcoin 3.18.1-therealbitcoin.org #2 PREEMPT Sat Mar 28 22:09:20 EDT 2015 armv5tel GNU/Linux
asciilifeform: if i make it to the middle - i do it. otherwise, trying to leave enough of a record here for the next fella.
mircea_popescu: once you got the os, optimize hw for it.
asciilifeform: but this is for after the war.
asciilifeform: (with support for bounds checking and other adaisms)
mircea_popescu: then it's an os.
trinque: what's the derpiest unix like kernel this thing would build on?
mircea_popescu: making the code carved in stone is imo a bad move.
asciilifeform: i'd go further
asciilifeform did not like the lack of process separation inherent in it
trinque: is there some way to bolt a program directly to a kernel?
mircea_popescu: yeah well, at the chestnut cafe, that.
asciilifeform: for the final solution.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i certainly intend to sit bitcoin down on the metal. on possibly even this machine. but will probably use ada's spark bare metal for it.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000074.html << congrats on the pogotron, ascii!
trinque: I'm about certain this is beyond the scope of this evening or one six pack of beer
mircea_popescu: so then not THAT big of a deal
mircea_popescu: bitcoin is, but the pogo is single core neh ?
mircea_popescu: not necessarily one we'll use, just to get the hang of it
asciilifeform: i am using the one i made.
asciilifeform: but i have not tested the one it makes
asciilifeform: doesn't nuke the compiler though, iirc
asciilifeform: i also eliminated all the standard crud that kernel wants to have by default - support for usb hid, mice, keyboards, framebuffers, and anything whatsoever whose purpose i did not know
trinque: but have working cross compilation tooling otherwise, which farts executibles agreeable to the pogo
trinque: asciilifeform: I tried the crossdev compile of bitcoind and got as far as boost hell regarding bzip2
asciilifeform: the cookbook is brutally terse, if any of it isn't obvious plz ask while i'm awake
trinque: asciilifeform: am meeting up with ben_vulpes and other friends tonight, and I'll bring along the pogo
asciilifeform: should take about 20 min. on a typical box, to build the WHOLE ORCHESTRA
asciilifeform: tested the result, too
assbot: An Interview With Chuck Peddle - Charismatic Chipmaking Coryphaeus | The Amp Hour Electronics Podcast ... ( http://bit.ly/1yoevNa )
decimation: asciilifeform: http://www.theamphour.com/241-an-interview-with-chuck-peddle-charismatic-chipmaking-coryphaeus/ < chuck peddle claims in the middle of this 2.5 hour podcast that his new 'hybrid DRAM/FLASH ssd drive' contains 11 6502 uC's
decimation: the best approximation one can get as a civilian is to purchase FCC "class B" devices
asciilifeform: 'heavy metal case' is not the same as 'tempest shield' regardless of appearances
asciilifeform: shielded but for the keyboard, display..
decimation: asciilifeform: re: rf quiet pc < the original IBM AT came in a heavy metal case, fully shielded
asciilifeform: chucked all the extra crud
asciilifeform: in othere news
mircea_popescu: men reach a certain age where the only way they're fucking anything is if that anything sucks them off first.
trinque: I heard lockheed martin is going to build the enterprise with a fusion reactor
asciilifeform: l0l mr o polls, 'should grumman get another $tril' ?