jurov: if you're serious about simpleshell then gentoo
mod6: i'll see if i can do some sorcery in the next few days and get it resolved.
mod6: There's a lot of stuff on our "to-do" list, but it'd be nice to knock out some OpenBSD support before we get into doing other heavy lifting.
mod6: but all of that is easy, i just need to dig in to figure out how to get the proper configure args for openbsd -- iirc last time I tried, I tried to build a statically linked binary and then openssl compile failed. and I just got busy with the release so I havent gotten back to it yet.
mod6: so it looks like i've got 1 small tweak to the makefile, and for some reason it doesnt seem to like "DB_LOG_AUTO_REMOVE" in db.cpp and there are a few include statements needed.
nubbins`: as a wild guess, i'd say at least some of the changes in my osx instructions may apply -- most of them were just renaming syscalls and compiler flags
mod6: naw. its just a few additional include statements in a few of the source files iirc
mod6: Hopefully I'll have something figured out for that soon. And yup, updates will go to the mailing list. :]
freeborn: ok, subscribing to the list ;)
mod6: I have that part figured out, I even had mine running. but it was only a /dynamically/ linked build. The part I need to still sort out is a staically linked build.
freeborn: once ready, I am interested in working on a openbsd live image that uses the reference bitcoind
mod6: It requires a subtle patch to the code.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: optic fibre is perhaps the ideal thing to bury << aha. doesn't care about water (see ancient thread re: co2 tanks chained to telco poles) or capacitance of surrounding material
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you print 10k capilaries of which over 9000 have a hole somewhere... well i guess it'd make a great burning man prop << problem invites itself to be solved with clever metallurgy. as in, alloy which functions if in a normal turbine but fuses the capillary shut if said capillary is on fire and not cooled by a nearby functioning microturbine.
mod6: <+thestringpuller> freeborn: I'm pretty sure mod6 has gotten it working on OpenBSD. << Hi freeborn, yup, OpenBSD is on def. at the top of our list of platforms to support. I made good progress on this in February, but got a little side-tracked in March with the release. Stay tuned to the mailing list (btc-dev), any advancements in this realm will be updated there.
nubbins`: hm, if this doesn't work, i can rebuild *just* the cross toolchain, can't i?
asciilifeform: nubbins`: and see what flags they pull in
asciilifeform: nubbins`: incidentally - read through the packages tree to see if there are any that use cpp
asciilifeform: nubbins`: so you will be the pioneer.
nubbins`: asciilifeform FWIW you may wish to include those flags in the next portatronic release; boost requires g++
asciilifeform: freeborn: then you can have permanent voice.
asciilifeform: freeborn: get in the wot
freeborn: thestringpuller: very cool. mod6 o/
thestringpuller: mats: i don't understand the point of fake money anymore.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: make clean all first cleans then alls
asciilifeform: freeborn: try the mac os build instructions posted recently, these may work on openbsd
freeborn: hi all, been following the bitcoin foundations work for a little while.. looks really cool! I have been giving it a shot trying to install on my openbsd machine, I noticed in the release notes that BingoBoingo has provided soem insights for building on obsd, does anyone know if this is possible yet?
asciilifeform: if it is point-like enough, it begins to make sense to stack the tiles vertically (at sufficient distance naturally)
asciilifeform: funkenstein_: Also as you move horizontally away from the object you are lifting, your leverage decreases << only if payload is a point.
thestringpuller: there is no mpex bot
mats: what is going on with the yen?
funkenstein_: Also as you move horizontally away from the object you are lifting, your leverage d
funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> lifting whatever size load as one wishes, like balloons <-- it's the airflow problem that will probably get you.
nubbins`: rather than lame ol' intelligent design
nubbins`: anyway mircea_popescu i took TFQ more to be an interpretation of the whole "hyperspace = outside of normal spacetime" thing simiar to what Card suggested in Children of the Mind
mircea_popescu: fucking incredible how bad the "definitions" peddled by online sites are.
mircea_popescu: a lot of human history can be readily understood by sieving it through the universe-cosmos duality
funkenstein_: the concept of a universe seeks a proper definition
mircea_popescu: which is probably what the universe is in the first place : the big bang was... well... one such event, tiny in its proper scale.
mircea_popescu: through a process roughly similar to pair generation (which is how we even know black stars exist : spontaneously generated pairs which sum to zero but which are separated by the event horizon result in direct radiation of the black body), it is reasonable to expect even a thermically dead universe to display localised disturbances, permanently.
mircea_popescu: asimov's idea of thermic end is kinda bizarre. it doesn't go to 0, it goes to "soup"
mircea_popescu: whenever the great ovary tears off the packaging off a pre-prepared condom-equivalent.
funkenstein_: perhaps the galaxy is already filled with something
mircea_popescu: " It took mankind a million years to fill one small world and then only fifteen thousand years to fill the rest of the Galaxy."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080559 << juicy, but i somehow doubt 3d printing's yet there. if you print 10k capilaries of which over 9000 have a hole somewhere... well i guess it'd make a great burning man prop.
mircea_popescu: "i have an idea, let's separate church and state. the 'community' is made out of idiots who aren't actually intellectually prepared to have any sort of church yet anyway."
assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 03:35:35; asciilifeform: there is exactly one cure for this kind of mental pathology. the good news is that it -will- be prescribed. whether the 'patient' wants, or not.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080521 << lawl. the pathology known as "being an ignorant, primitive indigent" ? complete with basic animism, politico-shamanism and the works ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080512 << everytrhing even moderately costly is in severe permanent shortage in the soviet america. the only thing they have in ample supply is "technologies", a la facebook. exactly mirroring the situation of the previous soviets, eating pravda on bread, except "real" pravda on imaginary bread.
assbot: Logged on 31-03-2015 03:22:24; asciilifeform: (short-term, that is. which is the only model of concern to these people)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-03-2015#1080496 << some things more apt for burying than others. optic fibre is perhaps the ideal thing to bury.
nubbins`: nevermind, found the flags
gribble: Government Agency Warns If 9 Substations Are Destroyed, The ...: <http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-19/government-agency-warns-if-9-substations-are-destroyed-power-grid-could-be-down-18-m>; Government Agency: If 9 Substations Are Destroyed, The Power ...: <http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/government-agency-if-9-substations-are-destroyed-the-power-grid-could-be-down- (1 more message)
nubbins`: ;;google power grid is fucked if too many transformers blow at the same time
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [03:30] substation transformers in usa are in severe shortage << really? source? this shit doesn't fit in a container and ship from china these days?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [03:10] but because of the implicit transformation from 'item' to 'fabric' << i occasionally bat around the notion of producing microturbines with litho
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [02:35] the problem is tho : the electric machines suck specifically for being electric << different powerplants for different regimes
nubbins`: the <ul> structure won't really support this sort of per-release comment going forward, give me 5 minutes
nubbins`: you might also wish to put a small blurb under 0.5.3 just noting that to the best of your knowledge, it's vintage legit
nubbins`: mod6, just a suggestion: put the 0.5.3.1 release note under the link rather than over it. it looks like it's attached to the original 0.5.3
asciilifeform: thermal paper is great for things that -need- to be destroyed
nubbins`: who updates thebitcoin.foundation again? jurov / kakobrekla ?
asciilifeform: incidentally, all thermal papers fade
nubbins`: i wonder how many people have printed private keys on thermal paper and subsequently hot-laminated the result
asciilifeform: there is exactly one cure for this kind of mental pathology. the good news is that it -will- be prescribed. whether the 'patient' wants, or not.
decimation: “I had a cherry tree that died about 10 years ago. I cut out a part, and had a ceremony for it,” Campbell said. “I burnt it as part of an offering. I was thinking of getting others in the community to do it, and have a healing ceremony.”
asciilifeform: the building would have to take place on another, spare planet where there wasn't a magnetopocalypse.
decimation: because it would take months to build the transformers
decimation: supposedly this is why the 'carrington event' would be so terrible
asciilifeform: decimation: at any rate, precisely these folks will be the first to lose civilization permanently
asciilifeform: the infamous queen, who despised steam engine for 'too loud'
decimation: of throwing yourself in front of one of their trucks to stop them, which I considered.”" < lol
assbot: Pepco angers Montgomery County residents by pruning beloved cherry trees - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1xR9Qss )
decimation: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/pepco-angers-montgomery-county-neighborhood-residents-by-pruning-beloved-cherry-trees/2012/07/18/gJQAqPqMvW_story.html < "As the men in hard hats hacked away, Julie Marcis and her husband confronted the crew, pleading with them to stop ruining the trees.“You feel like your insides are crumbling when you look at what they did,” Marcis said. “You have no control, you can’t do anything, short
decimation: ^ a pretty good sample of the way people think in maryland
decimation: "Montgomery County Council President Roger Berliner introduced the tree-protection measure in April, following widespread complaints from residents about the power company's aggressive trimming of trees around its power lines."
decimation: now land is dear, and no one wants to pay to bury the lines
decimation: the aerial cables are a result of 1950's era build-out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they cut'em
mircea_popescu: who the fuck heard of not cutting tree branches ?
asciilifeform: decimation: if it does, they probably will be permitted to tear out and melt down the copper
decimation: well, the whole thing backfired now that the replacement service was going to be classified title II
asciilifeform: decimation: nah yet another cell
decimation: the thought causes bile to rise
decimation: wash dc power 'customers' can be reliably expected to 1.) whine about a single tree branch trimmed by the power company and 2.) whine when the tree knocks out the power
asciilifeform: decimation: tethers in flight are ick
decimation: asciilifeform: actually as long as the swarm was operating within a short range of ground, there's no reason why it might not connect to a power 'tether'
asciilifeform: or hey, pilot could split in the middle.
asciilifeform: but sure, if you get hit by big enough object (rocket, mountain, hell - the ground) - splat
asciilifeform: the whole story of 'titanic' is about this.
mircea_popescu: i suspect this is not akin the myth that 1900s ocean liners had solved a problem since idem.
asciilifeform: but because of the implicit transformation from 'item' to 'fabric'
asciilifeform: i also must say that the idea appeals to me not only because of cost
decimation: there are actually many uses for a cheap 'skyhook'
asciilifeform fortunately doesn't need to fly around the neighbourhood very much, so gedankenexperiment can stay one
asciilifeform can't afford even the back half of a cessna
asciilifeform: i do the next few years i'm likely to remain alive.
asciilifeform: damnit, it wasn't to fly every man woman child dog cat around for the next eternity.
mircea_popescu: people who casually do not realise the importance of peak copper in limiting human history are invited to read up on ww2 economic history
asciilifeform: we'll get there, or not, regardless.
asciilifeform: what will happen to the parts when 'peak x' is reached for every element in mendeleev table is an interesting question, but unlikely to get there purely by virtue of making toy choppers.
decimation: ^ toy jets don't have millisecond adjustable thrust either
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform peak oil vs peak copper. except peak oil allows an infinity of capacity to be deployed as long as the sum consumption is under X
mircea_popescu: but then we're back to rockets, and sure, "tile of rockets", consider the mechanical problem that got brushed asiude above
asciilifeform: (to produce the item)
mircea_popescu: what if the only reason electric seems cheap now is that we don't use it.
mircea_popescu: or maybe the only reason you think so atm is because you're looking at the dynamic equilibrium of proces as if it were static
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: performance - will beat the shit.
mircea_popescu: and even this 2 cc combustion engine will beat the shit out of your electrical 10 watt engine
decimation: actually one could imagine some copters joining the swarm with horizontal attachment
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in as far as i am able to ascertain the reason, it appears to be because no one has suggested tiles.
mircea_popescu: if you look at the relative size of a plane when it moves from two to four it's abundantly clear what the sweetspot is like
asciilifeform: they are always 'bus'
mircea_popescu: decimation yes but there's a reason they have bipropellers and quad propellers, rather than thousandprops
mircea_popescu: so if all the load is cells, long busride ?
asciilifeform: on standard cell. if some of the load is added cells - longer ride.
asciilifeform: but so long as freyacopter could possibly work (and there is no reason why the machines currently existing, with about 1:1 useful lift to own weight ratio and around 1/2hr of endurance on standard battery)
asciilifeform: at any rate, everyone is missing the point
asciilifeform: 50,000 birthday balloons are cheaper than airplane. but not very much use to fly. on the other hand, if a freyacopter tile lifts, e.g., 500g...
asciilifeform: but i came up with it for a reason. sat the other day for a long time thinking of mircea_popescu's observation that 'industrial product is crud' and the only place where industry wins is - scale
asciilifeform: (is there anyone who doesn't understand why ?)
decimation: Freiherr Hammerstein-Equord's 'method' (if true) built one of the greatest professional land armies the world has every seen
mircea_popescu: the space of everything else's sadly incomputable.
decimation: "As King put it: "Winston Churchill once famously observed that Americans will always do the right thing, only after they have tried everything else.""
decimation: re: Freiherr Hammerstein-Equord's quote < Yes, USG specializes in promoting the stupid and industrious
decimation: and part of the reason why he couldn't advance was because the ministry's reforms of the army tended to favor derpy nobles over young talent
decimation: well according to the history to which I have been listening, he was fustrated by his inability to advance beyond a junior officer
mircea_popescu: decimation he was born either just before or jsut after revolution
decimation: except the Carnot cycle guy was his son, I was mistaken
decimation: re: carnot < one of the mistakes louis xvi made was not recognizing and promoting him
mircea_popescu: the problem is tho : the electric machines suck specifically for being electric. this isn't fixed by assembling more of them.
asciilifeform: anyway, i'm not certain what the point of this is, in practice, but having failed to find any traces of it existing, thought it fit to post here.
asciilifeform: (in peacetime this may be a bad idea, they will fall on someone's head)
asciilifeform: why let them drag machine down.
mircea_popescu: seems exactly the sort of thing to get freak compounding nonsense in.
asciilifeform: any given point in the 'fabric' is equivalent.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: except that the error does not compound.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: only 'random' to the extent calculations are off (plus wind, vibration)
mircea_popescu: the sykorsky is ~7mw
decimation: they would need some kind of rods to form a web
asciilifeform: how far - is for the folks who actually want to try this
decimation: I wonder if there is some kind of diminishing returns with having so many rotors in the same area
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a simple exercise : given each element applies a force F on a random vector, calculate the shear force - probability function for a string of 100 such.
asciilifeform: or the like.
asciilifeform: one could also, presumably, have 'tiles' which only carry battery (or only thrusters) depending on whether endurance is at a premium
asciilifeform: the choppers will snap together like children's 'lego' and share control and power bus
asciilifeform: this is simpler than it sounds because they are traditionally built in such a way that operator sets desired angle and motors 'bang-bang' with pde dampening until it is achieved
asciilifeform: in other news, i had a most peculiar '1024 chickens'-flavoured thought -
mircea_popescu: block. blocks are the timekeeping device
asciilifeform: timestamp of the latest incoming bitcoin transation ought to determine the clock time << this promises to be very gnarly and even non-monotonic unless we're very careful
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> three hours with the fucking ram because apparently no fucking blacksmith existed anymore. << l0l, mircea_popescu got a free penetration test from enemy
mod6: thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-March/000078.html
mircea_popescu: three hours with the fucking ram because apparently no fucking blacksmith existed anymore.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079687 << why exactly would the guy "hafta pay fines" anyway ?
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for brendafdez from 1 to -1 with note: Highly intelligent and utterly self-destructive. Will stick around for as long as the former appears to mask the latter.
mircea_popescu: !rate brendafdez -1 Highly intelligent and utterly self-destructive. Will stick around for as long as the former appears to mask the latter.
mircea_popescu: !rate brendafdez Highly intelligent and utterly self-destructive. Will stick around for as long as the former appears to mask the latter.
gribble: brendafdez was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 5 days, 2 hours, 25 minutes, and 26 seconds ago: <brendafdez> mircea_popescu it works now. Anyway the IP I'm on now is one of a public AP, it shouldnt be whitelisted. I'll later give you my home IP, and BingoBoingo has my VPS IP already. I didn't know you were filtering.
decimation: re: discussion about ntp < I thought the conclusion of that thread is that the timestamp of the latest incoming bitcoin transation ought to determine the clock time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't think that's so bad, really. let that everybody hack on them
thestringpuller: it blows up all the time from my experience.
thestringpuller: nas makes me think of the rapper
asciilifeform: the inevitable 'price of open source' is that we made pogo suddenly considerably more appetizing for just about everybody.
asciilifeform: esp. since we are not the only ones who can use 'buildroot' etc.
asciilifeform: and not after another month or three of 'recent interest'
asciilifeform: if somebody wants to get a rail car full of'em, the time to do so is probably now
nubbins`: wholesale guy said he might increase from $20 to $30 soon because of recent interest, in the meantime
asciilifeform: ... and will approach $maxint as they run out.
asciilifeform: (for anyone who slept through pogotron/pogotron-v2, the current version spawns telnetd by default on every boot)
jurov: that solves the triggering of male pogo
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell pete_dushenski it's not clear to me facebook is a "technology". if every tripod/myspace clone with an advertising budget were a technology then you should probably avoid tap water.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> that he then accidentally forgot to either softlaunch here or defend afterwards ? << Yes
mircea_popescu: jurov stands to reason that if one wants to run a devel pogo they'd run the devel pogo rather than the cement pogo ? or am i missing something ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079610 << isn't this also the dude with the weirdo positions re gavincoins ?
assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 16:45:05; mike_c: because if it was actually "sizable".. and they didn't get it back..
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-03-2015#1079604 << well, they could imaginarily take it. there's no limits to imagination!
assbot: Logged on 30-03-2015 16:42:29; mike_c: BingoBoingo: see NYT article, they (correctly) just call him mr. force.
mircea_popescu: omg the haters
trinque: but they at least have a place for output
trinque: heh, there are printers with embedded menu systems kinda like that
jurov: what, the pogo won't have any management interface beyond that button?
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> what's the trigger ? <<< hold reset while powering up unit to boot it in "erect" mode?
nubbins`: the upside of this is that you could turdify a whole stack of pogos at once
asciilifeform: (what would be involved: it triggers the backdoor - see log - then transfers over nandwrite; then payload; then fires)
asciilifeform: 'male' pogo sitting on normal lan with one of more 'females' could be manually triggered to spoodge, using the telnet shell and a util that takes argument of female's ip
asciilifeform: what's the trigger ?
asciilifeform: that's the part i got stuck on
asciilifeform: this would involve, at the minimum, the 'male' starting up a dhcp server prior to the 'female' being powered up
asciilifeform: (i do not presently know if the nic on pogo has auto-crossover)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, nubbins`, danielpbarron et al: is there any interest in the pheature i discussed in october (?) where one pogo would deflower another, virginal unit ?
asciilifeform: nanddump is also there
asciilifeform: in the path
nubbins`: where are the nand read/write utils located in new turdel?
asciilifeform wonders where everybody went... reading the sr mega-turd? hacking on pogotron? beating off rabid weasels ?
punkman: also "FORCE used his official position as a DEA agent to illegally run criminal history checks on individuals for the benefit of a third-party digital currency exchange company, CoinMKT, in which FORCE had personally invested approximately $110,000 worth of bitcoin."
punkman: heh "FORCE functioned as the de facto Chief Compliance Officer for CoinMKT all the while employed as a DEA agent, even allowing himself to be featured in CoinMKT's "pitch decks" to venture capital investors and allowing himself to be listed as CoinMKT's anti-money laundering and/or compliance officer"
ascii_field: and will stammer and blither in front of the jury, or cough up some outlandish 'martian' alibi
ascii_field: fact is, if this ever goes to trial (unlikely) - the moron will be asked 'where did you get it'
ascii_field: one of the few things usg is demonstrably good at is sniffing out unexpectedly fattened cattle to butcher.
ascii_field: 'In summary, for the nearly two year period before FORCE worked the Silk Road case, FORCE deposited a total of approximately $250,000 into his bank accounts, an amount consistent with his federal salary. In contrast to that, the bank records show that in the just over two-year timeframe from FORCE's joining the Silk Road case to his May 2014 resignation, FORCE deposited approximately $776,000 into his bank accounts, an
assbot: US Used Zero-Day Exploits Before It Had Policies for Them | WIRED ... ( http://bit.ly/1Cqt5r9 )
mircea_popescu: ironically enough, the usms scammer thing which is how i even got started also doesn't seem to have made it in.
nubbins` has been pickling daikon radishes in rice vinegar for the past 3 months, will consume this evening
mircea_popescu: most of the good stuff didn't make it in.
mircea_popescu: dude if i was going to put everything in i'd be there for a week.
thestringpuller: i like how MG made the cut but not BitBet lol
mircea_popescu: hence all the b&w amateur-art photos
nubbins`: the install is trivial
mike_c: oh cool, cobra ink will sell you the printer with cis installed already
jurov: and when i bought cheaper ink, found out the cassettes can really be refilled only once anyway
mike_c: I like the thought of that a lot.. and it may be practical given wireless (so i can put the whole thing in a closet somewhere).