asciilifeform: won't make the docket much less news
mircea_popescu: lettuce see if forbes getting sued by bitcoin for ip infringement makes the news or not.
mircea_popescu: cazalla write to the author and to forbes editor, tell them they can either publish a fix or else i sue.
PFate: ? the .com is not mine
pete_dushenski: PFate: well congrats on "We have proven ourselves: Since our launch in 2012, there was not a single security breach."
cazalla: wow, that fortune.com article cites btcfeed as the source of the jan bitpay layoffs? fucking cunts
pete_dushenski: PFate: that works because i'm pretty sure nowhere here watches the news
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1085111 << sadly. the man very much went by this "engineering" approach.
PFate: pete, right now its not good from watching the news
pete_dushenski: PFate: soooo what's the fate ?
PFate: @thefateofbtc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's wrong with config file srsly << nothing wrong with it. but 1) the hardcoded junk needs to go 2) node needs to learn own ip somehow
mircea_popescu: yeah they're not bad.
pete_dushenski: http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/letters.html << recommended reading for log readers out there
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 21:54:54; asciilifeform: i never got around to shitting out a patch to remove the hardcoded seedz
mircea_popescu: well... the world is supremely fair, in that ignorance is its own reward.
asciilifeform: folks who, to a first approximation, -don't read for pleasure- tend to write rather disconcertingly like a poorer version of what they did read. sorta like vomit looks something like the food at times
pete_dushenski: ^quite the qntra rip-off
pete_dushenski: http://fortune.com/2015/04/02/bitcoin-bowl/ << oh hey look 'daniel roberts' reads the logs
mircea_popescu: it's funny tho, quotations from bad fanfic, the works.
asciilifeform: this is not entirely unlike the 'karate scenes' written by hacks
mircea_popescu: conversations between Quirrell/Malfoy/Potter seem to follow scripts of the form
mircea_popescu: basicaly... these are kids whoise main feature is having sat through a bunch of bad marketing seminars.
mircea_popescu: ham fisted, Hariezer is consistently telling us about all the manipulative tricks they are both using. Its less a conversation and more people who just sat through a shitty marketing seminar trying to try out what they learned. WITH RAPE. "
mircea_popescu: "So, Hariezer is joking about the murder (its made clear later), but WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING? These escalating friendship-tests feel contrived, reciprocity is effective when you dont make demands immediately, which is why when you get a free sample at the grocery store the person at the counter doesnt say did you like that? Buy this juice or we wont be friends anymore. This whole conversation feels
asciilifeform: i think they have naggum's cat.
mircea_popescu: there was a very apt summary in that physicits's criticism. i suppose i should look it up.
asciilifeform: The youth: So that I can get on with my work, of course.
asciilifeform: The youth: That would be just too bad.
asciilifeform: The youth: Nonsense! You don't suppose the Germans are going to encourage Fascism in this country, do you? They don't want to breed up a race of warriors to fight against them. Their object will be to turn us into slaves. That's why I'm a pacifist. They'll encourage people like me.
mircea_popescu: the man is not honest.
asciilifeform: and sorta wanted to get back to these two highlights of his youth
mircea_popescu: right. but that's half the story.
mircea_popescu: for the other it's not ok to admit urbit exists strictly because a) yarvin's chumpatron attempt failed just at the time b) usg was looking for a particular tool
mircea_popescu: As a development methodology it's often useful to write hoon that tracks an existing C routine rather than the other way around, but even this needs to be done quite carefully to avoid jet discrepancies."
mircea_popescu: "Writing an empty stub is an extremely bad practice and should only be done in desperation, because at the urbit level it produces a system event log that is nonrepeatable, or at least noncompliant with the nock spec. Discrepancies propagate rapidly in any kind of replay. You should be able to turn off all jets and get the same result. This is not practical, but it is practical if you disable everything but a few ba
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084446 << lol wait, they came full circle to the actual goal, usg's own bitcoin ?
assbot: Logged on 06-03-2015 23:42:12; asciilifeform: for the benefit of n00bs, i will briefly elaborate
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you recall the 'specificity of diddling' thread ?
asciilifeform: (and the occasional floppy/pc)
asciilifeform: must add also that the possibility of emulating a reasonably unix-capable computer is relatively recent. in university 'operating systems' courses in '99 folks were still rebooting actual pc, with floppy, 500 times a day. in 2006 - qemu.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084405 << the reason they're doing this is obvious. they want to find bugs.
mircea_popescu: well yes. im chasing the culprit. i wish to know who the fuck thought this is a good idea.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform THE PROBLEM STILL EXISTS.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:32:29; nubbins`: but hey. the plural of anecdote is proof, yes?
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:17:35; asciilifeform: my dns seed snip patch never made it in the realease, did it
asciilifeform: (dns removal. but one more tumour growth left, the external-ip getter)
asciilifeform: i think we shot (a) in the head
mircea_popescu: so far, i'm a) chasing whoever the fuck broke the world by making an idiotic libnss and b) unconvinced the problem's more than that dns bs.
asciilifeform: but none of it changes the fundamentally bowel-loosening fact of discovering that 1) extant linuxen are incompatible in eldritch ways 2) that impact bitcoind build
mircea_popescu: no, we've not even come to the discussion where "it's entirely unclear desktop with bitcoind in quemu can even process blocks in 10 minutes each"
asciilifeform: but what is the alternative whereby each of us ends up with 1) EXACTLY same machine 2) one we can still get 1000 years later
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is right, but in the same way as a fella taking penicillin is 'swallowing poison'
mircea_popescu: so you want me to pull in more code than the openssl. with worse risk outlook.
asciilifeform: but think of it as a skyscraper foundation. there is tremendous pressure on it
asciilifeform: that's the thing, bug in emulator is catastrophic
mircea_popescu: how do you distinguish a bug in the os from a bug in the emulator from a bug in the code ?
asciilifeform: in the way that we are too poor (yes, poor) to do with tangible machine yet.
mircea_popescu: this is the last thing we want.
asciilifeform: yes, the bin. small enough to eventually disasm & read.
mircea_popescu: but this is essentially naive. because, again, the bitcoind is not the code you read, but the binary that runs.
asciilifeform: as in, putting an actual cork in the os/libs/cpu/etc
asciilifeform: anyway the point, again, would not be to ever -run- bitcoind in the dog-slow emulated linux
mircea_popescu: inb short : it'd be great if emulators as you conceptually represent one existed and work. they do not. what we need is a distro to set in stone.
mircea_popescu: sometimes i fall asleep on one girl and wake up atop another.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sometimes, you can take the contents of the emulator and - if it exists and you have it in your collection - run it on physical iron
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, granted, it's "a better hypervisor". still runs on another os.
asciilifeform: emulator can be of anything you like, whether the computer from 'apollo' space probe, or one that i made up for the occasion.
mircea_popescu: and there you have your problem.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski "The teens are the sons of Roxanne Dubé, who only recently assumed the role of consul general in Miami. A former Fulbright scholar, she has extensive diplomatic experience, having worked as an aide in Parliament and as the ambassador to Zimbabwe."
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I dunno, what's going on in the Canadia
pete_dushenski: why can't they just buy coke from a classmate like normal kids of consuls ?
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: how stupid and ballsy are these consul's kids that they "planned to rob the drug dealers "
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the short version of the difference is that a 'hypervisor' emulates -certain- instructions, that are understood to modify the global state of the machine in ways which would allow the guest os to monopolize the hardware (e.g., write a block to the disk at index I) whereas an emulator emulates -all- instructions executed by the guest
assbot: Teen son of Canadian Consul General arrested after brother killed in drug deal | Miami Herald Miami Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1HpqDCK )
asciilifeform: actually the rub with hypervisor is that the 'guest' -can- affect the 'host' quite often.
mircea_popescu: "works on another machine. check. client can't crash kernel. check"
asciilifeform: because we are essentially interpreting the snes instructions
mircea_popescu: but only provided the underlying os behaves.
asciilifeform: hypervisor is a very other animal, where certain instructions are emulated ('sensitive' ring0 ones) while most execute naked.
asciilifeform: when used as classical qemu (with accelerator) there is no hypervisor
pete_dushenski: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFWV-mfMdw8 << if this be the same weiner that keeps derping with seamonster
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the problem is that the pc architecture (as a standard that you can hard-hold a vendor to) is dead.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:16:41; nubbins`: so maybe we can start there
Adlai: BingoBoingo: no, the best part: McSwagger was awakened from a deep sleep by his pager, only to find out that he was being called by his own nurse, apparently because he needed something for sleep
mircea_popescu: then again if THAT didn't work it wouldn't surprise me.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i once seriously toyed with the idea of building with borland cpp 3
mircea_popescu: but yes, the execration has occured to me a number of times.
mircea_popescu: i didn't take any across the ocean ;/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: be so kind as to try the build on one of your debians ?
BingoBoingo: It was all very surreal. The nurse told me my patient had arrived on the ward. I told her I was the patient. She apparently thought I was making an existential statement and replied arent we all just the sum of our patients and our patience. I know, it doesnt make any sense to me either now, but at the time it was profound, because, you know, dilaudid.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:09:47; mod6: Ok, so say that you have installed via offical docs, bla bla bla. Ok, then our release doesn't work. But we need to fix defects, and I refuse to have this happen going forward. So we need something repeatable.
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084286 << this is a correct approach, the problem seems to be however that compilers don't work properly.
asciilifeform: which includes a type not defined in the src.
mircea_popescu: i can appreciate the ... spherical chicken appeal.
Cogburn: thank, you but you need not keep voicing me. I'll consider the invitation for the WoT. Glad to clear some things up. Have a great night.
mircea_popescu: conceivably this will come down to "use so and so, version no later than X, and you will have to either not use sound or use one of these sound cards"
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 16:06:28; asciilifeform: nor should nubbins`, or ben_vulpes, or the rest.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:59:45; thestringpuller: no. i'm going to have to cancel for family reasons related to finance
asciilifeform: even if there is a universe full of falsehood. as pointed out, stupidity cuts into equivalence classes.
asciilifeform: incidentally, one idea for writersey folks - taxonomy of the meaningfully-different forms of bad crypto.
mircea_popescu: kinda why you'd expect governments to do better than they are, really.
mircea_popescu: people are generally stupid in the same ways.
asciilifeform: aha. they even had own 'spamcoins' (using - now, long-dead - centralized spam-money services)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform those forums... sorta tardstalk before the bitcoin.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:27:23; nubbins`: wow, the latest DDOS attack against the forum seems to have reinstated the ability to change/add avatars
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084204 << if you recall, that was taken off because that's how sa owned the forum back during mtgox 1 cent days
asciilifeform: sorta the same feeling i used to get when i was a regular reader of 'secret' forums for spammers
asciilifeform: on the flip side, it gives an almost p.t. barnum-esque air of loud, profanely farting cynical hucksterism. nostalgic.
asciilifeform: it's one thing to pitch 'proof that 1=2' to third-grade children, another - to maths grad students
mircea_popescu: i suppose it's targeted at folks who think the usg is a good idea and windows an operating system.
asciilifeform: because, possibly, the flavour of being targeted at folks who go in for cryptological maths, rather than garden-variety schmucks
asciilifeform: i haven't seen anything as insulting to the intelligence of the reader as 'voltage security co.' in many years.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 15:06:45; asciilifeform: What You Need to Know About the Unsealed Silk Road Docket << i do so hate these 'what you need to know' titles. implication is that no serious person would need to know anything else
asciilifeform: 'scheme for relieving idiots of their...'
asciilifeform: but the asymmetry is required for honest crypto. i.e. if mr luser can determine a privkey to go with luser@luserdom.com than so can you and i
mircea_popescu: prolly the bruteforce approach doesn't deliver 100%.
mircea_popescu: drive them out of market.
asciilifeform: by virtue of the hash being malleable
asciilifeform: 2) usg generates a private key to 'go with' the public
mircea_popescu: not that the idea is without merit.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: since it isn't an actual cryptosystem, you will never -see- it. instead, the bank account of that clown and his university 'sees' the royalties from idiot usg affiliates proclaiming to 'use' it.
mircea_popescu: how does it even work, you hash the "public key" and then multiply it with something ? sorta halfass rsa ?
asciilifeform: Cogburn: so was it the beard ? or an actual position ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: rms' autoreply << never got, but the 48 hour thing is not, afaik, new. he has someone read the mail and pass it on (or not)
mircea_popescu: btw, anyone ever got rms' new autoreply ? the one where he goes "i'm on a 48 hour delay like mpex" ?
asciilifeform: Cogburn: are you able to describe even one of the concepts you agree or disagree with mircea_popescu about? or do you just dislike his beard ?
asciilifeform: let's say i said 'i think dijkstra was doing it right.' that would imply that i am in favour of structured programming, against the use of 'goto', and in favour of 99.999% of programming students being flunked and similar fraction of the practitioners of that profession - being fired.
Cogburn: Dunno. Not my problem. I know he has one. I know he's passionate about it. That's what I think is important. The rest is how history will remember our efforts.
asciilifeform: Cogburn: i'm rather curious re: what you believe mircea_popescu is doing. 'right' or otherwise.
Cogburn: It's a tool that provides an opportunity to do something truly different with the world. To take advantage, we must be different.
Cogburn: I think those of us who get this blockchain bitcoin magic internet money bullshit have the opportunity to demonstrate and lead by example. Quite frankly IDGAF if MP is crazy or I disagree. I think he's doing it right. I think he knows he's doing it right, too :)
trinque: I think ultimately people will choose whatever gives them the best life, and the sad current condition is that this is what they've chosen, because this is all they can see.
Cogburn: I appreciate some people just don't want to deal with some shit. That doesn't make them bad.
Cogburn: i'm okay with that, so long as there is a choice
asciilifeform: pass the lsd plz.
Cogburn: stop fucking over each other
BingoBoingo impressed there is so much lag between axe time and sword time
Cogburn: that's kinda the point
funkenstein_: musicians are also tired of getting fucked by the riaa
Cogburn: I think that RIAA is tired of getting fucked by new technology and drank their own koolaid.
asciilifeform: the other thing is the political nuance here. when you do business with riaa etc. you are banking that 2025 will contain a world where riaa and the usg it is an affiliate of - are still in business
Cogburn: I understand. I also appreciate where it is that I say these things.
asciilifeform: especially if the sum gets subtracted in human flesh.
asciilifeform: Cogburn: RIAA project << i for one would only pay even a penny for something riaa-related if it somehow -takes away- at least the same penny from riaa et al.
asciilifeform: Cogburn: there are more lucrative ways to fleece idiots, you know
asciilifeform: and, do the folks -inside- - who paid for their tickets - need them for anything? does the train need them ?
asciilifeform: now, are they 'passengers' ?
asciilifeform: <Cogburn> that means all those buddies in palo alto that everyone uses will fork to that chain << have you ever seen a tram in the third world ?
asciilifeform: <Cogburn> You know the WoT is basically forensic evidence, right? << it's more of a signed confession than 'forensic' anything. like the american 'declaration of independence.' 'we hang together or hang separately,' etc.
Cogburn: I literally cannot remember the context
asciilifeform: <Cogburn> pun intended? what is bitcoin if not the core reference client? << actually Cogburn is right. it very much -is- the reference client. which lives here: http://therealbitcoin.org
Cogburn: MP and I had a little row at the end of 2013 and I think that's where it stemmed from
BingoBoingo: <Cogburn> There's always twitter << Stop by again. Just remember on Twitter danielpbarron tends to bite harder than here.
Cogburn: There's always twitter
asciilifeform: <nubbins`> simply doing this manually and re-running auto.sh brings me back to... uint32_t ... << aaaaand this is where my patch in turn b0rks the thing. 'the doctor cured the patient's ear, but did poke out an eye, i fear'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> lol what even is this. << Rooster Cogburn's a Marshall on the altcoin wild west
trinque: no one connected to the internet on any device that exists has anonymity
Cogburn: You know the WoT is basically forensic evidence, right?
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: As someone else from the borderlands between the middle west and the middle south of the US I swear the WoT doesn't hurt that much
trinque: and if the economic implications of their fork eventually make the thing worthless, the original will have the posture towards it that it has towards fiat
BingoBoingo: <Cogburn> according to consensus, the 70% wins, right? << The beautiful thing about concensus is how many releases have been make since $100+ BTC which must agree
Cogburn: according to consensus, the 70% wins, right?
Cogburn: so there's now 2 bitcoins
funkenstein_: reject the blocks
Cogburn: there's an article from late 2013 and i wish i could find it entitled "What if Bitcoin turned Evil?"
funkenstein_: what is the internet if not microsoft IE?
Cogburn: pun intended? what is bitcoin if not the core reference client?
Cogburn: gavin has the keys. he's "that guy"
Cogburn: many people. i fully support his threat to fork bitcoin if gavin's block expansion goes through. he's 100% correct that it is an economic alteration to the network and not simple technical
Cogburn: MP doesn't have the market cornered on being crazy. some of us are just fucking nuts as he is. just not as rich. yet.
Cogburn: Maybe.. but it's my post and my thoughts and you're the one reading articles about me and bitching, so there is that
Cogburn: i smile all the time. don't be so grumpy
cazalla: ah, fair enough then
assbot: The Antagonist of /hashtag/Bitcoin?src=hashhttp://t.co/j9a3G5bvDS via /CoinReportNews/hashtag/Awesome?src=hash
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Everyone reads the logs
cazalla: Cogburn, do you read the logs? you seem to have joined pretty quickly after my mentioning of that lulzy article
Cogburn: I think we can bullshit the current system by crypto inside of the existing rules and bring about real change. I do not believe in the decentralized anarcho-capitalist utopia as a world-spanning solution to our ills. I think people will live that way if the want to, but real freedom is the ability to say "no"
Cogburn: The consensus can be "go fuck yourself"
cazalla: Cogburn, it's not so much the wot that can be gamed but yourself
funkenstein_: for the record, i still think you're trolling us :)
BingoBoingo: Cogburn: Score are the least important thing about a WoT, walking the graph and reading the feedback is
Cogburn: gamification of reputation is for people who can't give a good handshake or a warm, geniune smile when they meet someone.
BingoBoingo: <Cogburn> i think WoT's are kinda culty << It makes a decent shit filter though. The postitive ratings often are no where near as informative as the reasons for the negative ratings
ben_vulpes: if you're in the wot that is
ben_vulpes: negrate the fucker
ben_vulpes: Cogburn: get in the wot?
cazalla: Cogburn, maybe you should take that up with the surfs up guy instead of us? he wrote it afterall
Cogburn: i have never expressed disdain. i have expressed passionate disagreement. that's what consensus is about. like the old days of the greek republics arguing the issues of the day on the senate steps
BingoBoingo: And Garrett may or may not also be Garr255 of the Cognitive Mining tire fire
Cogburn: going by the article garret has an axe to grind with him :)
cazalla: going by the article, you hate him because you ain't him
trinque: "You think someone would do that, just go on the internet and tell lies?"
ben_vulpes: welcome to the new world order
ben_vulpes: bryce will also tell you that reputation doesn't matter either.
ben_vulpes: "The project will be a massive undertaking requiring a large seed investment. "