asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> i don't like it, it's just the ad-hoc thing that works today << i'm not convinced that there could be any reasonable alternative.
BingoBoingo: He bought SatoshiDice and retained the creator for some time, yes?
jurov: "Erik Voorhees as Founder of ShapeShift, announces seed round with Barry Silbert, Roger Ver" further down
assbot: The ShapeShift Blog | Shape Shift | The fastest way to swap cryptocurrencies. No account required. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IbYMt5 )
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ben_vulpes: i don't like it, it's just the ad-hoc thing that works today
trinque: I am well convinced that you guys like your process and there's nothing wrong with that.
trinque: all I'm saying is use tools that don't slow down the work, and have merge nazis using shame and dishonor at the center
mircea_popescu: i don't drive either, but yeah.
mircea_popescu: look a tthat. that's almost like a modern block's worth altogether.
nubbins`: and thus, the analogy complete.
mircea_popescu: the only time i trusted a us pos i had a break plate of a ford explode. just like that.
nubbins`: trinque and is your 300zx for granny smith, or for a driver who knows the risks?
mircea_popescu: this is why you like the two ton mercedes.
nubbins`: for the record, your car is almost certainly not "capable" of doing anything at 130mph
nubbins`: y'know, like they have in actual cars in real life
nubbins`: noooooo, the analogy would be a car with a governor that kicks in at 200kph
trinque: by that logic you should never drive, because the machine's capable of 130mph into a brick wall
asciilifeform: the approach does not 'fix' anything, no. but it prevents certain plagues that are otherwise ubiquitous
trinque: everyone who ever poked his dick into the github?
trinque: who is "we" there?
nubbins`: have you LOOKED at the code? :S
nubbins`: <+trinque> if you can't rely on the discipline of the people involved you're already fucked <<< by this metric, /we have been fucked from day one/
asciilifeform: like the orators who were forced to stand on one leg
asciilifeform: and this quickly becomes the only kind of patch produced.
asciilifeform: (also see the 'what colour are your bits' essay)
nubbins`: the adversarial approach to development
asciilifeform: because they live & die by idempotence of identical bits
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> nobody's collaborating on anything man << this is like the first time ever people are seriously using a noncollaborative approach to coding.
trinque: you can easily verify the output of git
asciilifeform: because the -process- provides guarantees of...
asciilifeform: sometimes, the -process- matters.
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 13:37:28; nubbins`: but he fears others will think it sucks, or worse, that his taste is so poor that it *does* suck and he just doesn't see it
asciilifeform: and their reactor controls
asciilifeform: trinque: do you recall the conversation about sov. nuke subs ?
ben_vulpes: the shitty thing doesn't even compile yet
asciilifeform: it is NOT the same thing!
trinque: you're just manually doing the same thing
mircea_popescu: trinque honestly im just waiting for them to get buried in more pizza packaging first.
nubbins`: i think the original was hyphenated
trinque: but I see the sense of this
mircea_popescu: you're crazy even with the patch.
asciilifeform: anyone so much as touching the dangerous patches needs to actually grasp what is going on.
nubbins`: trinque this is sort of like the bible, in that various acid fevers are recorded and some of them end up being canon
asciilifeform: there is also another set, of dangerous patches which may or may not turn into tree candidates.
asciilifeform: that is, ones that made it into the release
asciilifeform: trinque: there is precisely one set of 'official' patches
trinque: but w/e you guys are doing the lifting, yours to decide
asciilifeform: nubbins`: it is a warning that tells you the fact that YOUR BIN WILL ONLY RUN ON YOUR BOX
nubbins`: it only happened to spit out right after the "cannot find -lssl, -lcrypto"
nubbins`: i haven't verified that you necessarily need to apply the dns snip patch for it to compile on gentoo
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:34:02; asciilifeform: but i will not be signing any patch that i can't apply with my mind, in my mental model of the code.
assbot: Logged on 15-11-2014 00:31:06; asciilifeform: but the argument here is not about sabotaged ken-thompson-style tools. but about tools that foster intellectual atrophy.
mircea_popescu: During the conversation, the UC stated, "We read chemistry books with breakfast. Like, who does that?" VELENTZAS responded, "People who want to make history."
nubbins`: others who are trying to build 0.5.3.1 on gentoo should also see above link ^
asciilifeform: its english << as written by su mole deep in the british ministry of fucktardation ?
mircea_popescu: http://ed-thelen.org/comp-hist/lgp-30-man.html#R1.00 << ancient manuals are great, but good god the stuff one finds in there
mircea_popescu: wever, it is always to be avoided to use numbers as instructions. Since an instruction word is indistinguishable from a number word, some means must be provided to avoid using numbers as instructions. How this is accomplished is described under "BUILDING A PROGRAM". Also, how we convert from a 2000 to the binary representation shown is discussed later."
mircea_popescu: "The computer has no way of knowing by examining the word itself, whether a word is intended as a number or an instruction. Under most circumstances it is the numbers which are operated on and the instructions which are followed as instruction. The LGP-30 has the ability to operate on instructions as numbers. This ability is not only valuable but a feature which makes for the great power of stored program computers. Ho
mircea_popescu: make n chain then make reorg
mircea_popescu: punkman the best way to test that sort of thing is on a local testnet with low diff.
asciilifeform: what are we looking for, at the bottom of that tank? a golden ring ?
asciilifeform: there is not an easy way to do much of anything.
punkman: is there an easy way to induce an arbitrary-sized chain reorg for testing?
asciilifeform: also writing broadcast (s.nsa) and buncha other things in shiva hands
asciilifeform: in other news, i think i've a fixed-ram-space bitcoind running...
asciilifeform: now i realize it was true. except not outhouse, but pc arch and the whole stack of softs.
asciilifeform: into the ground.
asciilifeform: as a kid i always imagined that the shit tank was bottomless.
asciilifeform: my grandfather had a dacha. it did not come with a toilet, so he built one. outhouse thing, but with an actual toilet that flushed instead of the customary shit pit. this is relevant, because:
asciilifeform: (to be fair, pc arch standard is dead and what i said is probably wrong for at least every box in seven on the market.)
mircea_popescu: and then he wrote it all breathlessly and didn't bother to proofread before submitting.
asciilifeform: because the dram was never powered down
nubbins`: tbh i forgot about the guy
nubbins`: "i am so rich that 5000 btc is a mere pittance, but a bunch of forum scamzors will have to collectively shell out ~$10k in airfare in order to unravel the mystery"
assbot: AfterLife | Digital Intelligence and Investigation | The CERT Division ... ( http://bit.ly/1IwaBXG )
mircea_popescu: cold cold boot does it. where the fuck does it store its stupid bits alf ?
asciilifeform: for the crime of poaching rare wood, naturally
asciilifeform: know what would be riotously funny? if american 'nature preservation' agency rounded the idiot up and took'im to preet
mircea_popescu: t clue you will need to posses and have all 10 coins in the same physical location. The clues in the coins were crafted in a fashion that you will never find them let alone figure them out via photographs, with x-rays, or in any fashion other than having all the coins in the same location at the same time to solve the puzzle."
mircea_popescu: "I have made and sold 9 2015 wooden physical bitcoins listed below. Each one of those coins has hidden in or on it a part of the puzzle. The key to decoding the first part of that puzzle is coin #10 which after much though is being given to someone whom i already chose from this forum. In order to decode each individual wooden coin you will have to have #10 in its physical presence and in order to solve the entire firs
nubbins`: tempted to move 5k coins and post tx in the thread claiming that i've found the capsule ;/
nubbins`: nevermind that the entire concept is ludicrous
nubbins`: anyway i guess the dude saw my auction and got jealous
nubbins`: you're not born with all the stupidity you'll ever have
asciilifeform: not a finite count of it in the vessel
mircea_popescu: you want me to actually drain the mobo light ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: the mega-l0l of 'cookbook' is that it was usg-authored originally. << Seems to have been independently written and later blessed because of its error, contrast to "Poor Mans James Bond" written by fellow who wanted to be their friend, but his work... not blessed
nubbins`: mircea_popescu maybe the livecd checks the hdd for rootfs, tried to mount partially-installed one or smth
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform check this out : if you boot off the cd, gentoo works ONCE. if you reboot it, it no longer works. if you boot machine with something else, this resets it, and you can now boot gentoo off cd again. ONCE.
nubbins`: didn't realize the ml does it for me
jurov: nubbins`: the patches need uniquie identifiers for people sending sigs later
trinque: holy shit the guy's made dragonballs
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asciilifeform: am i the first to run full-bore valgrind on it or wut
asciilifeform: this is not weirdobuild either
mircea_popescu: because a) even if the cd somehow failed it shouldnb't fail like this
asciilifeform like total idiot assumed the variant that makes sense.
asciilifeform: though this was the second attempt to boot an -installed- linux.
mircea_popescu: their fucking handbook or w/e that is.
mircea_popescu: "The Gentoo minimal installation CD is a bootable CD which contains a self-sustained Gentoo environment. It allows the user to boot Linux from the CD."
asciilifeform: then when the contents are in place, we move disk to its final home and try to boot from it, etc.
asciilifeform: i very rarely install gentoo from cd, must say. normally i install using a normal computer with the 'patient' disk plugged in
mircea_popescu: if im going to actually have to do shit by hand im not going ot use the retarded "live cd" bs.
asciilifeform: alternatively compile the cmdline into kernel per se
asciilifeform: then it will work for all time.
asciilifeform: if boots, then stuff it into the kernel cmd line params in lilo (or grub or whatever you used)
asciilifeform: at any rate, give it the rootfs.
mircea_popescu: look. whatever whatever may be built as or not, i have two basic expectations. one is, for fucking machinery to behave the same way from night to next evening. the other, albeit weaker, is that if i get a "minimal work" thing i actually have to do minimal work.
asciilifeform: try giving it the actual root device when it asks
mircea_popescu: it's still in there now!
asciilifeform: then.
asciilifeform: was disk in the drive
mircea_popescu: w/e comes with the minimal install
mircea_popescu: can't find the boot device AFTER BOOTING FROM IT ? srsly ?
mircea_popescu: the neverending fountain of weird shit... so alf get a load of this!
asciilifeform: jurov: ok then no
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 14:40:12; mircea_popescu: next you're going to want to hang badly dressed women, and then where will we be.
cazalla: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-04-2015#1086456 <<< women who care not to match the colour of their bra to their panties should def hang
nubbins`: that's them
nubbins`: if anyone else gets "1 target failed, 3 skipped" at the end of their Boost build: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=MVWupgZj
mod6: ok thx. your message at the top is good. much appreciated
mod6: this works "as designed" on deb6 - so you might wanna put a note in there what platform this is intended for.
nubbins`: modifies auto.sh to copy the openssl libs to ourlibs, adds boost:: to the errant uint32_t instances
nubbins`: should have a patch on the ml in an hour or so, probably poison but feel free to give it a look
asciilifeform: browser that spends 56mS rooting through cache - thank sv and their stables of delinquent children turned into 'programmers'
mike_c: ah. game time and web time are not the same orders of magnitude :)
mircea_popescu: perhaps they even show us how to make one.
mike_c: 1/3 of the total time is 53 microseconds? that's pretty fast..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform shut up dude. if advanced aliens show up they perforce know of caching
asciilifeform: checking cache takes 1/3 of the total time << ahahahahahaha
mike_c: issues be it's not returning anything from the last couple days
mike_c: search.b-a issues a known problem? doesn't seem to have indexed the last few days
asciilifeform: mats: http://www.mvkworld.com/eBooks/pages/Science%20Fiction/Poul_William_Anderson_-_The_Man_Who_Came_Early.pdf << MUCH better story about same
mircea_popescu: that's right. not yet, they don't.
mircea_popescu: the donkey said to the man breaking ground, that no grains grow in freshly broken ground.
mircea_popescu: you can readily ignore the muppet.
mircea_popescu: the point asciilifeform doesn't appreciate here is that i'd much rather spend 10k to sue forbes over a missatributed story than spend 10k to buy "clicks" on facebook or w/e.
asciilifeform: 'GCHQ has consistently underperformed on Brazil, with growing concerns that Sth [sic] American attitudes on the Falklands are swinging behind Argentina....'
cazalla: i looked for a legal contact, not finding anything, might have to be sent to time inc as they appear to own fortune.com
mircea_popescu: if that is true, that is to their detriment.
asciilifeform: but not in the mail
mircea_popescu: cazalla i'd say they'd banned from qntra, and we just rewrite their breaking stuff without credit given, but then again they've not broken anything since like the 80s, they just rewrite random feeds.
asciilifeform: or what, mircea_popescu expects to get in the mail a package with the head of the fella who signed the 'do not cite qntra' memo taped on 'fortune' monkeys' cubicles ?
mircea_popescu: da fuck do i care what the idiot has to say lmao.
asciilifeform: cazalla, mircea_popescu: toldya they'd say 'pound sand'
mircea_popescu: do they indicate where to send process ?
asciilifeform: 'https://ninjadoge24.github.io/#002-how-i-cracked-nq-vaults-encryption / CTIA - "The Best App of CTIA by the Techlicious 2012 Best of CTIA Awards" / PC Magazine - "PC Magazine Best Apps" / TRUSTe - Received "TRUSTe Privacy Seal" / Global Mobile Internet Conference App Space - "A top 50 app" ......... Looks like a substitution cipher. What if it's just XOR? Like just fuckin' XOR?'
asciilifeform: 'VELENTZAS also told the UC that she was progressing in her electrical studies and had used a solder tool to solder copper wires together, although VELENTZAS had suffered a small burn on her finger in the process. The UC observed a burn mark on VELENTZAS's finger.'
mircea_popescu: but hey, the us is solving its homeless population, and the un doesn't even seem to notice or anything.
mircea_popescu: i would imagine by now the number of retarded people being abused through this scandalous mockery of law exceeds the "sex offenders"
asciilifeform: 'On or about October 24, 2014, VELENTZAS viewed on her cellular telephone YouTube videos about a beginner's tutorial for soldering, tools and steps for soldering and de-soldering, how to solder wires together, how to solder a circuit board, common soldering mistakes, and introduction to flux, a product used in soldering tasks.'
trinque: https://www.theverge.com/2014/7/29/5948003/scientists-discover-killer-roundworm-sperm-hermaphrodites
asciilifeform: (though modern data suggests they have flock dynamics and pheromonal strange, like ants)
mircea_popescu: the little buggers are really persistent.
trinque: though I wish I understood the saudi/iran dynamic more
trinque: I wouldn't expect them to continue to exist if/when that kicks off
trinque: it's too early in the morning for this zen shit
asciilifeform: when the ancients anthropomorphisized nature and 'respected', e.g., the sea, it was because it was -indomitable-
mircea_popescu: but we were discussing agency rather than techne here
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well yeah, if they actually were intellectually respectable i'd prolly be there.
trinque: maybe they're respectable like one respects a forest fire
asciilifeform: i'll respect when they build so much as one mosfet. or a hydro plant. or own radar array. or at least stop using fucking caesar ciphers.
mircea_popescu: part of why isis seems respectable where the usarmy does not.
trinque: "they" "should"
Chillum: failure to plan for failure is the ultimate failure
mircea_popescu: you're merely stating that you're not really the new boyfriend.
mircea_popescu: consider the matter in terms you're better equipped to handle. if, upon breaking up a girl with her former boyfriend, you institute a policy that she may fuck him whenever,
asciilifeform: Chillum: we all get eaten by worms in the end. why not start now. right ?
Chillum: If I was involved in the formation of a new regime I would institute a policy of mercy on the old regime. If only because any new regime is likely to be taken over by the next
mircea_popescu: that really has no bearing on the case here.
asciilifeform: if the law gets scrapped and re-written every time the throne changes hands - what is the law ?
mircea_popescu: the people who did sign a confession stay in.
mircea_popescu: the people who didn't sign a confession walk
mircea_popescu: depends on how the stuff was formalised.
asciilifeform: but what's with the dress-up games. if tomorrow yesterday's victor and vanquished switch places - the former doesn't get to whine about 'violations'
asciilifeform: i mean i get the basic idea, 'to the victor - the spoils, to the vanqushed - the tears'
mircea_popescu: otherwise we'll start having to take back the ilk of shrem because hey, "they torched his house".
mircea_popescu: these are unequal things. commerce is between equal parties. employment is between unequal parties.
asciilifeform: if i'm only 'selling' for a penny because you torched my house the day before - then yes, took.
mircea_popescu: also not their problem.
mircea_popescu: not their problem.
mircea_popescu: "steal from the public" is what, microsoft ? jp manufacturer of resistors ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not different at all. <mircea_popescu> anything anyone owns on the grounds of having interacted with a government is to be taken outright.
asciilifeform: which 'oligarch' didn't steal 'his' money from the public in ru ?
mircea_popescu: ya ya, except if you become an "oligarch", then they invent imaginary arears and steal your shit.
asciilifeform: and then some
jurov: alf whines all the time about as if obama took something from him.. so i'm trying to compare
asciilifeform: jurov: what thing of yours did mr p take? i'd like to hear the full story here
mircea_popescu: which is why i write about people like bfl on trilema, but not about any one of the countless heists.
mircea_popescu: it's one thing to be a thief, it's another to pretend not to be a thief.
mircea_popescu: "here's how much you group of criminals owe. the pay is X an hour. get busy."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i can see a plan to have everyone who ever worked for a government shipped to the salt mines until the whole sum is made back.
Chillum: feed it to the mushrooms
asciilifeform: they long ate and shat it.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> anything anyone owns on the grounds of having interacted
mircea_popescu: all the time.
mircea_popescu: that's their problem.
jurov: or anyone in the US had?
jurov: lol, you have never interacted with the govt?
mircea_popescu: anything anyone owns on the grounds of having interacted with a government is to be taken outright.
mircea_popescu: see the difference ?
mircea_popescu: "into the countrys top-level bureaucrats and state employees "
asciilifeform: jurov: if you were king you would let sc4mz0rz squirrel away the nation's wealth in american banks ?
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 13:48:47; mircea_popescu: jurov the idea being that putin didn't write himself a piece of paper saying "hey if i don't like you it's ok to take your stuff". or if he wrote, he didn't sign. or if he signed, he didn't publish. etc.
jurov: so that the boost:: prefix is needed depending on what is #included
asciilifeform: jurov: aha yes there is, look.
nubbins`: oh there's that.
jurov: there could be some c++ namespace hackery
nubbins`: seems weird you'd fall back to the non-boost version for these couple of random instances.
asciilifeform: this is another aspect of 'c/cpp ecosystem' that rattles nerves
asciilifeform: dies before they get evaluated.
asciilifeform: that -or- gcc simply doesn't get there