nubbins`: also the bcp stuff could totally be included in same, not sure if this is something people want
nubbins`: otherwise your boost build will fail
nubbins`: you'll need to use bcp (see logs) to trim out the fat and gristle
decimation: apparently uclibc has a dns client that opens /etc/resolv.conf itself, built into the code
mats: well ofc provably preventing the exploit is preferable. PaX like a custom Gentoo build, relying on the attacker not knowing it's there, and/or failing to react accordingly
decimation: although the question of what it does with gethostbyaddr() is a good one
nubbins`: ascii_modem actually it was the client side that baffled me, heh.
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 14:21:21; nubbins`: w/e the libnss thing is. details escape me now.
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 06:26:08; mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084918 << UDEREF is about best-effort userland/kernel separation for exploit mitigation, not limiting the capability of the kernel
ascii_modem: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-04-2015#1089320 << fuck 'mitigation' and the surrender built into the word. i insist on -extirpation- -- with hot iron
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-04-2015#1089276 < I apologize for failing to convey my meaning well. I meant that redhat 'provides' this as a source package, and therefore one could examine exactly how they did it - not to swallow the binary without inspection. Source is here > http://ftp.redhat.com/redhat/linux/enterprise/6Server/en/os/SRPMS/glibc-2.12-1.149.el6_6.5.src.rpm
ascii_modem: i still want to know why gentoo has the only honest (re: stdint) gcc !
ascii_modem: the -only- real test
nubbins`: oh right, yeah, the dns-snip patch killed that
ascii_modem: until killed the dns crap
nubbins`: w/e the libnss thing is. details escape me now.
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 05:55:23; mircea_popescu: sure, someone could. the moment someone does you get ubuntu - two years of unusable, six months of barely usable and then insta-poettering.
ascii_modem: that part takes me 1h at most. it is deliberately manual, like the sub reactors, or therealbitcoin
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 05:54:27; trinque: someone could solve this; gentoo has this neckbeard orthodoxy which imo is the only thing preventing it from having a proper installer
ascii_modem: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-04-2015#1089297 << lol installer?!! as in copying other folks' bins over? ick
ascii_modem: i find it odd that mircea_popescu does not handle linux in same way as lathe or - hell - dental work
mircea_popescu: again, entirely separate propblems, these.
nubbins`: if you want to complete the picture, tell me your handshake is limp and clammy
mircea_popescu: these are completely separate problems.
ascii_modem: me, i find all those -other- distros, the ones that insist on littering my disk with all those bins i didn't ask for and that werent built in my home - unusable
ascii_modem: mircea_popescu: gentoo is not so much a 'usable linux' as a -machine for building a usable linux-. sorta like 'buildroot'. would you also say that, e.g., a lathe - is 'unusable' ?
nubbins`: <+cazalla> danielpbarron, ha check it out, that freebsdgirl ya had it out with on twitter got swatted <<< this imo is explicit admission by her enemies that they have no external genitalia
nubbins`: now it's happening when i try to (re-)compile bdb rather than when i try to compile bitcoind
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 04:17:34; nubbins`: and uses the bought accounts to "buy" his coins
BingoBoingo: There's probably some subset of compulsive behavior spectrum that desperately wants whatever they are doing to actual be museum'ing
BingoBoingo: Setup a freedom toaster at a conference, some idiots are going to put one up in a space they have access to thinking it will attact passerby outside the conference distortion swirl, same with BTC ATMs
BingoBoingo: Will it's an attempt to make some money for the people selling the boxes, but mostly it's a piece of conference swag some naive souls tried to introduce into the real world.
mircea_popescu: rather than a ludicrous attempt to be hipsterashionable.
BingoBoingo: Wait, you had other impression of it?
mircea_popescu: im starting to realise the "bitcoin atm" thing is actually just a sort of "freedom toaster" v2.0
mats: pointer, userland can control the data (and sometimes, control) flow of the kernel by virtue of providing the attack data in its own userland address range as it's fully visible in the kernel's virtual address space as well"
mats: quoth the spender: "the problem i set out to solve with UDEREF was that many kernel bugs can be exploited (at all or more reliably) due to the fact that on i386 most OSs don't separate the userland virtual address space from that of the kernel. this in turn means that whenever userland can make the kernel (unexpectedly) dereference a userland controlled
mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1084918 << UDEREF is about best-effort userland/kernel separation for exploit mitigation, not limiting the capability of the kernel
mircea_popescu: that'd be the problem.
trinque: oh god the mundane knowledge you must have to operate it
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's the most objectionable thing ever, all this list of gotchas.
trinque: haha, the plank with nail is unstoppable
mircea_popescu: how. spiked club in one hand, plank-with-nail in another hand.
trinque: either it's easy to install and becomes the shit-smeared playground, or it's pulling teeth and marginally less shit-smeared, it seems
mircea_popescu: sure, someone could. the moment someone does you get ubuntu - two years of unusable, six months of barely usable and then insta-poettering.
trinque: someone could solve this; gentoo has this neckbeard orthodoxy which imo is the only thing preventing it from having a proper installer
ben_vulpes: pressed shitboard all the way down?
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 04:36:00; ascii_modem: this invites the question of why should we ever use conventional libc again.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-04-2015#1089208 << apparently we were not the only ones to notice glibc got raped.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-04-2015#1089192 << maybe i'm from the wrong asylum, but what exactly does "provide a static X" mean ?
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 04:17:34; nubbins`: and uses the bought accounts to "buy" his coins
decimation: true. it's also possible that the code was acquired from elsewhere, written for some other purpose, and was 'merit-washed' into the ecm module
ascii_modem: but someone -decided- to use the idiot coolie
decimation: and that person either *knew* what he was doing or was pathologically ignorant
decimation: somewhere there was a sweatshop where some asian person was committing code to this device
ascii_modem: cheaper than that endangered animal, the actual engineer...
ascii_modem: but because the unreflective imbecile who signed off on it is.
ascii_modem: it is -not!- because the non-ecc chip is cheaper
ascii_modem: fits-in-head is the only answer. though it goes well with a balanced diet of public impalements for wreckerz
Adlai: something like compcert doesn't help when the libraries have mounds of garbage code, even if it "works," you just get mounds of garbage object code
decimation: "Although the investigation focused almost entirely on software, there is at least one HW factor: Toyota claimed the 2005 Camry's main CPU had error detecting and correcting (EDAC) RAM. It didn't. EDAC, or at least parity RAM, is relatively easy and low-cost insurance for safety-critical systems."
decimation: Barr's ultimate conclusions were that: Toyota’s electronic throttle control system (ETCS) source code is of unreasonable quality. Toyota’s source code is defective and contains bugs, including bugs that can cause unintended acceleration (UA). Code-quality metrics predict presence of additional bugs. Toyota’s fail safes are defective and inadequate (referring to them as a “house of cards” safety architecture).
decimation: the lite version for interested folks http://www.edn.com/design/automotive/4423428/Toyota-s-killer-firmware--Bad-design-and-its-consequences < "
decimation: it's in the logs somewhere. point is, there's a whole cottage industry around trying to 'support' C for missions that matter
ascii_modem: or the plane-falls-like-brick one
ascii_modem: the car-with-stuck-accelerator industry?
Adlai: sure, but it's not like this is the first time people have wanted to use minimal functionality from existing libraries
decimation: http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/02/how-red-hat-killed-its-core-productand-became-a-billion-dollar-business/ < ""We never ever go into a customer and say, 'There's an application that's not supported on RHEL," Cormier said. "If it's supported on Windows, it's supported on RHEL.""
decimation: they want to turn linux into winblows
decimation: the amount of bloat in glibc is quite shocking
decimation: all the more reason to use embedded buildroot/minimal distro
ascii_modem: this invites the question of why should we ever use conventional libc again.
decimation: 6) uClibc does not support NSS (/lib/libnss_*), which allows glibc to easily support various methods of authentication and DNS resolution. uClibc only supports flat password files and shadow password files for storing authentication information. If you need something more complex than this, you can compile and install pam.
nubbins`: ok, so the libdl/DSO thing is gone
decimation: well, the redhat glibc static build is pretty much just building glibc with -static
nubbins`: go small or go to the mall
decimation: ascii_modem: did you see the earlier note about glibc compiled statically
nubbins`: the shouting is starting to get really good now
nubbins`: lel the roomie and his friend are watching "death of a fuckin salesman"
decimation: I thought he put that in the script
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 04:37:31; decimation: mod6: try modding the openssl 'configure' stuff to use 'no-dso'
nubbins`: with the exception of one or two rubes
nubbins`: and uses the bought accounts to "buy" his coins
decimation: ascii_modem: I thought we went over the libdl/openssl thing
nubbins`: roll a few, count the naughts
nubbins`: i think they have zero dice
ascii_modem: how do these folks decide how many zeroes
nubbins`: so that he may deliver his piece de resistance: a 500btc scavenger hunt that can only be solved by purchasing all of his old laser-engraved coins from the various sock accounts that "bought" them
nubbins`: this is the $10mn/year master carver he's talking about, that's using 0day exploits to unban himself from the forum
nubbins`: of playing games. Use your own eyeballs/brain instead of listening to the mob of neckbeards who harassed/negged him. "
nubbins`: "He did post it. Not only was he banned from this forum that day (he unbanned himself with an exploit), but ALL of the videos on his youtube were reported and removed for copyright infringement, including the ones showing detail work because there was music playing on the radio in the background. In short he already went out of his way to prove his innocence to a bunch of stalker idiots here just to have his accounts shut down and was tired
assbot: [2015-04-03] The 5,000Btc hidden treasure, and the key to finding it. ... ( http://bit.ly/1IfAO03 )
nubbins`: dynamically link all the things?
nubbins`: which leads me to believe the openssl compile might need to be looked at.
ascii_modem: be aware that, like the rest of opensourcedom, it is in a fairly advanced state of ... declapse (tm)
ascii_modem: anyone read the mem stats?
nubbins`: bcp is included in the boost download, cd $BOOST_ROOT; ./bootstrap.sh; ./bjam tools/bcp
nubbins`: if you get bcp compiled, you can just do the following to spit out a custom subset of boost, tailored for your project:
nubbins`: anyway this is farther than before. actually cleared out an enormous amount of boost libs
nubbins`: .so would be the shared lib, .a is static -- looks like libcrypto.a is complaining
nubbins`: so i used BCP to strip out all of the boost shit that's not needed for bitcoind
decimation: I'm not sure if it completely solves the nss issue though
mircea_popescu: then you don't really care if you win
mircea_popescu: which one is sudoku ? theone that is taking over the idiots that used to do crossword puzzles ?
Adlai: iirc it was norvig who called sudoku "a ddos attack on the human intellect", although it may be more like a pack of hyenas preying on the stragglers
mats: well. #b-a gets to share credit for the latter.
decimation: Now, it may be arbitrary. But they are getting what looks like a determinate choice because the alternative is chaos."
decimation: "o place is. No place that survives is majoritarian. That's what is striking, is, all countries that survive have what are in effect ways of controlling this problem. And so the insight that comes from this is, you can explain what look like odd institutions because--no one may have understood it. This is a very Hayekian point--no one may have understood that they are getting stability from this. They are getting a determinate choice.
decimation: or some combination of the above
decimation: it kinda makes sense in its own retarded way - say you want to use sun's 'nis' rather than dns for name resolution
mats: my sibling recommended i seek counseling because of my "obsession with beating chess computers and the end of the world"
BingoBoingo: 128 cores, 1 TB of ram for the transposition table...
mircea_popescu: then chokes showed up and for a good decade people were all "no dude, there is a shaolin monk somewhere that can hit your spirit!!11"
mircea_popescu: but speaking of this, i recall the lulzfest of the "consensus" in the 50s to 90s about how you know, striking is the way to go.
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 00:24:06; trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd7M4H0b62k << couple pops to the head and the guy's learned something whether he wanted to or not
mircea_popescu: if you actually love him you can try slavery, but this works exclusively on the thin set of people who understand deeply they suck
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 00:06:12; trinque: so here's another badly formed question; what kind of experience empties the HN poster's mind of its bad model?
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 00:01:14; Adlai: all three of those say "geeks signaling non-geeks to stay away", rather than "timecube dissertation"
mircea_popescu: yes, he's in touch with the *fashions* of his society.
trinque: someone to bop you on the head that maybe still wants you around, vs letting reality do it, which doesn't care if you survive the lesson
trinque: so maybe hierarchial leadership is the most humane arrangement, as well as the most sensible
trinque: dunno about "incredible" there
trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd7M4H0b62k << couple pops to the head and the guy's learned something whether he wanted to or not
trinque: so here's another badly formed question; what kind of experience empties the HN poster's mind of its bad model?
trinque: I agree thebitcoin.foundation needs more timecube.
Adlai: all three of those say "geeks signaling non-geeks to stay away", rather than "timecube dissertation"
nubbins`: one-way ticket to the bughouse
nubbins`: but everybody who studies the nature of consciousness is a crackpot
ben_vulpes: don't worry Adlai, nubbins` filters the true crackpots out
Adlai is a little suspicious of the presentation screaming "we are crackpots! real scientists hate us!"
nubbins`: that's the middle chapter
trinque: They interact with an internal model of the external world – the realm primus – and interpret this interaction as experience of the “real world”. << yeah, and for some people that realm involves jesus and satan, others republicans and democrats
nubbins`: where's the thing, uh
nubbins`: trinque i mean in the general sense :D
Adlai: "complete model" = copy of thing that's being modelled, optionally with the ability to diddle, reset, etc
trinque: what's the issue with saying some people have better strategies for interacting with reality than others?
trinque: so yeah in the abstract infinite regress right?
trinque: nubbins` | so if there's a model that contains models of all the models << nobody's head has a complete model of anything
ben_vulpes: "you can't model the universe with anything short of a universe."
ben_vulpes: https://nplusonemag.com/online-only/online-only/there-is-only-awe/ << jaynes, relevant.
ben_vulpes: models to model other people's models
trinque: in the head of a human, it most certainly is
ben_vulpes: "ah ah, mister! you can't get me that easily! it's models all the way out!"
trinque: going further, it stands to reason that neither most nor many men can produce a model of reality that works, in that it deals with risk well and identifies reward
Adlai: the [fake plastic] tree of liberty must be from time to time refreshed with the blood of scapegoats
ben_vulpes: de toqueville wrote about it at length - 'the old regime and the revolution' was the title of the translation i read
ben_vulpes: Adlai: french revolution is indeed a good tale of the hidden power structure (french bureaucracy) toppling the figureheads.
Adlai: he's in touch with "his reality", by which i mean, the reality of the society in which he operates. that society might be out of touch with realreality, but that doesn't require the inside of the bubble to see what's without.
trinque: mircea_popescu: this brings back to mind what you said last night about making a clear distinction between natural law and the purpose-driven "regulation" of human societies. I'm not in a position to well articulate this, so I'll just barf this: it seems the HN commenter in question is simply not in touch with reality, and there is nothing forcing him to be, neither nature nor someone in charge of
Adlai: in other words: a sufficient number of underclassmen armed with pitchforks (or AK47s) can ruin an upperclassman's day
Adlai: well the french revolution did happen... or was it organized by the new elite who got sick of wannabelite underclassmen-in-king's-clothing?
mircea_popescu: this is ridiculous on the face, of course, but hey. if they understood things they wouldn't be underclass.
mircea_popescu: trinque essentially what it boils down to is the proposition that the underclass does not agree the elite should have the right to opt out whatever redistribution system they come up with.
pete_dushenski: guy by the door... doesn't care.
mircea_popescu: in other news... "push your tits in the air like you jus' dun care..." http://36.media.tumblr.com/6e68fceefb3b8978db736a6c94d17028/tumblr_na1pvuWFRh1tonrdjo3_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: "how about you go be a transsexual/gender confused/derpopotamus about Bitcoin TOO, then"
mircea_popescu: "so you mean to tell me now i don't get a say into how the world works anymore, because back when i got the benefit of the doubt all i could do was being an idiot on reddit ?" "exactly"
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean, i can't own a pet only for the portion where i wanna play with it, but not for the portion where i have to feed it and clean its cage ??!?!" "exactly"
mircea_popescu: "but we only want a say in the things we want a say in and only for the part we want to say something" "yeah well that's not how this works"
mircea_popescu: this idea that most people "should" get a say in what happens to them... dude, if you do that, the same most people go "hey, i don't want to be bothered reading 548958609 pages of tax code, to then go have a hanging party for the govt that made it".
trinque: ben_vulpes: he mentions it in another comment
mircea_popescu: no, they do not.
mircea_popescu: "Why does that matter? Because people have a right to democratic institutions. People have a right to vote on or have a say in matters that govern their lives. Bitcoin, as it exists now, takes that away from people."
mircea_popescu: "The difference is, the people whose behavior would be controlled have no say in changing those economic assumptions. "
assbot: Whether Bitcoin was designed as a scam, I'm not too interested. Whether Bitcoin... | Hacker News ... ( http://bit.ly/1DzQZ7v )
trinque: meh, it depends on how you slice it; they chose that way
trinque: vs they consider amd64 to be a separate architecture entirely
trinque: but all for the 32bit x86
trinque: on the page you're looking at, the various ?86 builds are referring to different compiler optimizations used, different libc, or security features being kicked on
trinque: up from there
ben_vulpes: http://gentoo.osuosl.org/releases/x86/autobuilds/ << what am i not understanding about why there is no "64" on that page at all
trinque: ben_vulpes: make sure it all matches what you specified when you made the vm too
ben_vulpes: well now i'm wondering if i even got the right stage 3
nubbins`: what page of the handbook are you on
ben_vulpes hacks gems out of the temple walls
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: i'm basically just walking the list of processor types in make menuconfig
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: when building your gentoo kernel did you use menuconfig, and if so did you run into errors along the lines of "the cpu you selected does not support the x86_64 instruction set"?
mircea_popescu: (iirc he's still wanted on "tax evasion", which is pretty much the highest accolade of personal achievement the empire can bestow on any free individual)
pete_dushenski: whereas soros flew the coop ?
mircea_popescu: part of this is his complete neglect of investing in politics, which is why as a senile old man he's writing blanket checks to the government.
mircea_popescu: buffett is a success story in the sense that he managed, with skill and persistence, to get fleeced LESS than anyone else.
mircea_popescu: specifically because math is math, and the thing can't even keep up with itself.
mircea_popescu: which is why (in another, financial-based formulation) the whole shebang's approaching event horizon.
mircea_popescu: conceivably you have to make well over 50% per year to keep up with the bureaucracy inflation that always doubles paper money inflation in a command economy.
mircea_popescu: fact is, for the past half century, inflation was about 10`000% total.
mircea_popescu: and it would go exactly with the exact same 100x you'd get looking at health care.
mircea_popescu: goes splendidly with the 100x i extracted from real estate and the 100x i extracted from education.
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski and amusingly, this is a very indicative symptom of the problem. if "inflation didn't exist" and all this created value, people would care as much about 10 bucks now as 50 years ago. hey, it's a lunch.
pete_dushenski: and now the 'crowdfunding' cap is 50 mn bezzlars because the command economy doesn't do nickels and dimes worth a shit
mircea_popescu: ethereum through and through "technologees" you can't even short because nobody actually bought. because no actual market, because no actual anything there.
mircea_popescu: well, not the sort of people liable to go "hey, what ever became of the coinapult / feedzebirds / whatervs".
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, silbert is a guy who wants to get his name associated with the space, ver is a meanwhile broke dude who imagines that if he keeps being mentioned he stays relevant, as if, and voorhees just wants to keep his name in the press lest people forget.
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 22:30:07; jurov: "Erik Voorhees as Founder of ShapeShift, announces seed round with Barry Silbert, Roger Ver" further down
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-04-2015#1087331 <<< that thing consists of exactly nothing past the name, there's no value to be created out of the plan exposed. much like "bitcoin embassies in argentina" or the rest of the plowing flies bs.
mircea_popescu: the recent derpology wtf was it called perfect example
cazalla: i live 5 min from an aussie cadbury factory, you'd think you'd be able to smell whatever they make there but nothing
mircea_popescu: what is the market ? look at all these two bit "serial entrepreneurs" with their constant start-ups. how often is the news item "previous start-up of X did something" vs "new start-up of X got so many in lolfunding from a) people who wish to be in this press release and b) people he owes money to from the past, and we're not mentioning that past" ?"
pete_dushenski: this is 'the service economy'
mircea_popescu: as long as we're ticking off words off wordlists we might not even bother with the industry at all.
pete_dushenski: which they do, and since it's been so long since they've had anything resembling chocolate, the imitation stuff works
mircea_popescu: "we have 500 people and 200 fish" "cut fish open, insert 2.5x time their weight of dirt, sew back together"
mircea_popescu: heck, the solution of renaming the homeless to "Solve" "the homeless problem" is exactly cosubstantial with how command economies "solve problems".
pete_dushenski: as long as the press release says "happy troops appreciate reminders of home"
mircea_popescu: it can be made out of thinned out air for all they care.
mircea_popescu: ie, "fair metrics". if it can be called chocolate so they tick off whatever thing in some paperwork.
assbot: Logged on 04-04-2015 01:41:41; junseth: RE: college, it's not a fair metric. College inflation is largely a lie. The college I went to cost $45k/year. I paid $3k per year because the number they make you pay and the sticker price are completely different.
mircea_popescu: it cares about what the junseth dude was talking about. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-04-2015#1087623
pete_dushenski: which ties back into the earlier discussion about inflation being 15%, not 3%
pete_dushenski: the government being a customer but not 'a customer' means that it doesn't care about quality in the same way, just quantity
mircea_popescu: not the point. the point is that cadbury has the same relationship with random derp buying chocolate as pharma company with random derp taking pills.
pete_dushenski: re: cadbury, i'll grant that 'throwing under the bus' implies that the customer's reputation is being damaged
ben_vulpes: "4. the learning experience,"
ben_vulpes: "there are a number of reasons why a large proportion of Gentoo users choose to configure their kernels manually:"
ben_vulpes: i'm just a wee confused at the notion that there's some sort of relationship between cadbury and its 'customers' that cadbury is 'throwing under the bus'.