ben_vulpes: <trinque> asciilifeform: I was utterly mindfucked for the majority of the time I first spent here << heh i remember this
asciilifeform: among other items
williamdunne: s.nsa is doing the USB GPG tool, correct?
asciilifeform: several other folks here also use rng of own design and/or construction.
asciilifeform: (it will be made available to others, in due time.)
asciilifeform: i neither expect a 'fix', nor give a damn
williamdunne: asciilifeform: I saw you tear the Entropy apart a-while-back, did they fix your main concerns?
asciilifeform: trinque: we have (for the most part) burglars here, rather than robbers. they wait until owner is out.
decimation: eh, I'm not sure guns are the answer
trinque: nah bungle the burgle
asciilifeform: the house across from mine, was emptied by burglars last night.
asciilifeform: in other, unrelated news,
trinque: felipelalli: "this guy that uses these handles scammed me; here's the transaction on the blockchain, blah blah"
williamdunne: trinque: I was mindfucked for the past 12 months or so, but I didn't dive in and read blogs etc first
felipelalli: trinque: it's true! deedbot solves the blacklist problem, I think.
asciilifeform: that is: not being able to move to the flying sand castle quite yet.
asciilifeform: methinks felipelalli is expressing the traditional frustration of the 3 to 6 month n00b to #b-a:
trinque: the point when saying something about a person of obvious identity is identifying the *author*, not him
trinque: felipelalli: if you want to say something about your president, put it in the deedbot
decimation: I mean, your friends in the flesh
felipelalli: trinque: not everyone, but at least the important people to me.
trinque: that world may never have everyone in the WoT
assbot: Your pain reliever may also be diminishing your joy | News Room - The Ohio State University ... ( http://bit.ly/1IYRPbU )
felipelalli: but it would be at least funny. I'd rate the president of Brazil, the "mirror" user "twitter-dilmabr" as -10 as "scammer!" for example.
asciilifeform: what if the "derivated mirrored user" was just an ID of a social network like Facebook or Twitter? Before strike me, let me explain my motivation: << what if the 'derivated mirror food' was just a turd from the local public toilet, with spices such as mustard or ketchup? Before strike me, let me explain...
mats: interfacing the real WoT with some federated, poorly implemented imitation is a recipe for disaster
felipelalli: trinque: I know that. I am trying to convince the Brazilian community move to here, but it is being hard. The main community is still on Facebook.
felipelalli: asciilifeform: in the car I was thinking about a solution and I think I found it: what if the "derivated mirrored user" was just an ID of a social network like Facebook or Twitter? Before strike me, let me explain my motivation:
williamdunne: But they don't just deprive you of your livelihood, they also strip you of your reputation and in many cases remove your ability to defend it.
decimation: assessment on oath of reputable men of the neighbourhood."
decimation: nope. as the magna carta says: "For a trivial offence, a free man shall be fined only in proportion to the degree of his offence, and for a serious offence correspondingly, but not so heavily as to deprive him of his livelihood. In the same way, a merchant shall be spared his merchandise, and a husbandman the implements of his husbandry, if they fall upon the mercy of a royal court. None of these fines shall be imposed except by the
asciilifeform: medieval juries also did not concern themselves with day-to-day idiocies.
decimation: as 'la wik' says: "Medieval juries were self-informing, in that individuals were chosen as jurors because they either knew the parties and the facts, or they had the duty to discover them. This spared the government the cost of fact-finding" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_trial#cite_ref-14
decimation: williamdunne: exactly, presumably the point of the jury was that they were able to judge the credibility of the witnesses because they knew them
felipelalli: decimation: I said injustice in the meaning of someone uses a fake ID to blacklist someone unduly, just that.
williamdunne: A group of people you don't know without the full information deciding whether or not to lock you in a cage?
decimation: or at least, the facts
decimation: what's a jury trial other than having your wot judge your actions?
trinque: neither wots, cops or gods can prevent the former, and the latter's easier to do with a WoT
trinque: if I take a big shit in every business deal I'm ever a part of, I'll either outsmart everyone and win, or the shit's going to catch up to me
trinque: the wot just makes it quantified
felipelalli: asciilifeform: I am convinced the idea is broken at the point where you can not identify someone accurately. This could easily lead to injustice. But I will try more mature the idea. williamdunne raises a good point: if you follow the WoT, maybe someone is "good" or "trustful" to identify others.
trinque: there are societal benefits to maintaining good rating
williamdunne: asciilifeform: That was the point I made;)
asciilifeform: williamdunne: Who verifies the WoT? << no one but -you-, the user. and your experiences.
williamdunne: This is about stopping them from moving on
williamdunne: Indeed, but they move on
williamdunne: trinque: The idea is that people can do reputation exit-scams because they can just move on to new idents
trinque: your connections on the wot and your ratings, and your pubkey *are* you
williamdunne: Who verifies the WoT? You just ignore those you don't trust
asciilifeform: ditto any other passport or traditional document of identity.
asciilifeform: williamdunne: no one can verify a u.s. passport (the folks who can - won't. because they are our enemies.)
asciilifeform: it is, to use the ancient term of art, 'fractally wrong'
asciilifeform: felipelalli, williamdunne: fella who stole, e.g., 'mtgox' db can do anything the 'legit' passport owners could do.
trinque: also should people find you using many alternate IDs, they can negrate all of them knowing this
trinque: the incentive to use one identity is that your cred builds upon that name
felipelalli: can be impossible, indeed. I didn't mature the idea. Maybe it is true: it could be impossible.
trinque: felipelalli: the tool to apply is a WoT, but you can't force people to identify only once
felipelalli: the only flaw in this idea is that there is no reliable way to identify someone only. I understand that. But if there were, could be very useful to create blacklists. Especially in Brazil where there are many scammers that exposes all of your personal life, and we know their real names, their documents etc.
williamdunne: asciilifeform: I think he is really just looking for a way to make sure that each person only carries one identity, and the best way he can think of is a passport
asciilifeform: felipelalli: you are labouring under the presumption that the ultimate arbiter of truth is that piece of paper
felipelalli: asciilifeform: ahaha no, that is not the point. Maybe you didn't understand my initial motivation for that.
trinque: not easy to clean; going to need the powerful stuff
trinque: ^ what I put as the headful of shit
asciilifeform: felipelalli is still labouring under the burden of his old religion.
felipelalli: trinque: yes, this is the fail asciilifeformci rises with reason.
trinque: felipelalli: so then I lie about my name when I deal with you
felipelalli: trinque: a "mirror derivated user" like br-8d255152 (deriveted from my doc) would be useful only as "INPUT". There is no output from br-8d255152. This is useful for make a blacklist of scammers that don't use OTC. It could be derivated from my full name, for example: "Felipe Micaroni Lalli"= br-89402f8d
asciilifeform: felipelalli: so who issues the passports you were suggesting making use of ? god ?
felipelalli: trinque: the "doc number" is just a way to identify a user globally, but could be another thing.
asciilifeform: reading the logs; reading sites such as mircea_popescu's; same as you and i did
trinque: meaning no offense to felipelalli, he seems to not realize that his reverence for said govt official who names and numbers the people is a mystical belief
asciilifeform: sadly, i suspect that even a thousand threads like this one will not suffice in hammering the point home to the thickest
asciilifeform: trinque: this is a valuable thread - to illustrate the absurdity of even considering anything other than key as a reliable identity
asciilifeform: and the former divide into folks with write-access, and folks without.
asciilifeform: there are folks with access to u.s. state dept. db, and folks without.
asciilifeform: there is no 'specialist in documents'.
asciilifeform: felipelalli: a usg agent is not a machine for verifying that this piece of paper contains the name my mother gave me. he is a machine for furthering the will of lizard hitler.
asciilifeform: and some bizarre notion of putting them to use in somehow creating trust out of the aether
felipelalli: ben_vulpes: so, supose you are a usg agent and everybody knows your ability, you rate 10 the user br-8d255152, even if that user had 20x -10, I'd trust in your rate. The point is just the standard. The WoT serves as a natural filter.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the original thread concerned traditional identity papers issued by, e.g., usg
asciilifeform: and the entire exercise is a mold-a-bullet-from-shit
asciilifeform: any connection between the name claimed in the key and the piece of dead tree signed with it, is putative and unverifiable
felipelalli: and then "follow the WoT". If MtGox for example rates my "mirror user" br-8d255152 or "U.S. gov" rates that, no one trust them anyway.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> felipelalli: someone who is not a usg agent has no ability whatsoever to verify the legitimacy of any document but that of the most laughable fake << asciilifeform re
decimation: asciilifeform: note that zimmerman is largely trading on his rep 'earned' during the 'crypto wars'
felipelalli: I know it is not perfect, but it could be useful in some situations. The point is just create that standard.
asciilifeform: as the 'ban' thing unfolds, honeypots like zimmerman's which specifically sell on the point of 'l337 d00dz against nsa' will either a) quietly fade away b) somehow continue in what they presently are, in spite of supposed 'bans'
decimation: in the case of apple, I think it's quite likely they are honestly trying to make things secure, but are about as successful as all other 'tech' firms have been
williamdunne: felipelalli: Not sure if its a good idea or not at this point, but interesting to think about. Very hard to prove we are the sole instance of ourselves
williamdunne: felipelalli: read the issue section about making sure each person has but one identity
trinque: asciilifeform: they're going to need a big false flag
asciilifeform: felipelalli: someone who is not a usg agent has no ability whatsoever to verify the legitimacy of any document but that of the most laughable fake
decimation: 'they'
williamdunne: decimation: his point was that they're creating the illusion of security through colourful iphones
felipelalli: asciilifeform: thank you, good point, but it could be offset with the WoT where the ability to analyze a real document would be taken into account. williamdunne thank you! Nice to hear that! I was thinking about it for days! Do you know who are working on similar standard?
assbot: Logged on 14-04-2015 02:04:53; asciilifeform: algo went as follows: 1) snowden releases (whether one believes they were controlled or spontaneous does not matter for this recipe)
asciilifeform: decimation: i specifically said that it does not matter where snowden came from, for this hypothesis
asciilifeform: williamdunne: why rely on objects created by the enemy to use against us ?
williamdunne: felipelalli: Its not all that new though, some other people working on something similarish
ben_vulpes: there was a select field
trinque: not even multiple choice I wager... the barbarians!
asciilifeform: (do you know what it costs to advertise in every single car of the d.c. subway?)
asciilifeform: it only turned into this because the folks on the subway (yes, it was advertised in d.c. subway!) really did not give half a rat's arse about crypto of -whatever- kind
asciilifeform: the 'redphone', etc. idiocy was not -planned- as a boondoggle requiring eternal injections of qe-tronium to function.
asciilifeform: (if you're lucky. if you're not, he has you shot for the things i did while 'i were you')
felipelalli: ok, I'll try: I'd like to use OTC as a global "blacklist". But it is bad for that because a scammer won't create an account on OTC, or if his reputation is bad, he'll erase it. So we could create a "standard" like for example: br-8d255152 where "br" is the country code ISO and 8d255152 is the first 8 chars of SHA256 of user country document (in Brazil we call CPF and in Australia ID)
asciilifeform: 3) was to be the massive uptake by miscreant chumps, 4 - ???, and 5 - the proverbial 'profit!!11!!'
asciilifeform: algo went as follows: 1) snowden releases (whether one believes they were controlled or spontaneous does not matter for this recipe)
trinque: asciilifeform: some kind of implication that they're secure *now*?
asciilifeform: think, why would usg make loud, public farts against 'iPnohe' and other products from usgtronics vendors which remain as porous as ever ?
trinque: "well of course we have to watch the wire for terrorists using gpg!"
trinque: asciilifeform: at the very least passing something like that legitimizes surveillance as a means to verify compliance with the escrow system
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: generally you'll want to have the thing queued up to fire *before* talking about it
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 18:47:55; trinque: https://www.theverge.com/2015/4/12/8392769/nsa-front-door-access-encryption-key << "Front door" not "back door"! very comforting
asciilifeform: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1099925 << do i need to explain what the resurrection of 'key escrow' idiocy from '90s (clinton's! to go right along with the new clinton!) means from the meta-nsa school of thought? or is it already obvious to aficionados
ben_vulpes: brevity is the soul of whatever etc
felipelalli: ahahah thanks ben_vulpes ok, but I think it could be a "book", so I'll write on pastebin and then paste here.
ben_vulpes: felipelalli: i'll gladly shoot you down for the pleasure of it
asciilifeform: (r) al schwartz 199somethingorother
asciilifeform was about two blocks away but an hour or so too late to see these festivities
asciilifeform: 'Hundreds of people were escorted out through an underground passageway to the Library of Congress. They waited near gift shops and inside a restaurant and were told to walk opposite of the Capitol.'
asciilifeform: e who saw the sign said it had something to do with taxation. One report indicated that the sign said "tax the one percent," which he appeared to raise shortly before he shot himself. The bomb squad went through his bags as they investigated. They had clothes inside. Bridget Maley was with a friend on a tour of the Capitol when the lockdown happened, she told the NY Daily News, describing the atmosphere as "calm." The tour con
asciilifeform: 'A man holding a sign protesting "social injustice" shot himself in front of the U.S. Capitol Building, causing a brief terrorism scare and a lockdown that has since been lifted. An unidentified man had a sign taped to his hand as well as a backpack and a rolling suitcase, the latter of which caused a bomb investigation, according to a New York Daily News report. The words that were on the sign were not revealed, although thos
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... i thought you didn't like perl. << i dislike many things. but ripping out the perl won't put me any closer to victory, so it is $maxint down on the list of things-to-do...
williamdunne: " Lawmakers were not around at the time, as Congress was out of session on spring break. They are expected to reconvene on Monday. "
williamdunne: Didn't even do it on the right day
williamdunne: Probably a good use of the bullet
williamdunne: natmonitor.com/2015/04/12/man-kills-himself-in-front-of-u-s-capitol-building-holding-tax-the-one-percent-sign/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mats: (also, can anyone explain why the IRS issues debit cards for refunds? i'm told they're "untraceable" by folks that spoke to LEOs regarding the matter)
mats: thanks Anthem!
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 22:28:39; lobbes: "If due, the Arts Tax is $35 per person"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1100149 << how about "an arts tax to support the artsy sorts of dumb bitches with etsy accounts ? $35, includes two mandatory blowjobs / year from any female wearing the mandatory "I am an Etsy ho" bracelet, anklet or tramp stamp" ?
jurov: i quoted that mainly because of the planning
mircea_popescu: yes, the time for plaintext is over, but because wots and so on, not because pki.
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 22:21:13; jurov: "Finally, some people conflate the idea of a global transition from plain HTTP to HTTPS as a move by CA's to make more money. They might argue that first, we need to get rid of CA's or provide an alternative path for obtaining certificates. I disagree. Switching from plain HTTP to HTTPS is step one. Step two might include adding more avenues for establishing trust and authentication."
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 22:18:42; lobbes: re: tax idiocy. There are towns where I live that feel fit to tax income on residents that make their money out-of-town.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1100127 << this will become the norm as senenissima continues to wipe out tax receipts across the world.
williamdunne: But USG spending is so stable? Hence why they keep growing year on year.
mircea_popescu: which a desperate govt would be doing, obviously. and so... one way or another...
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 21:34:15; williamdunne: "Did you know that the average tax return so far for 2015 is $3,539! What would, or will, you do with that hard earned money the government so graciously returned to you after borrowing it at 0% interest?"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1100114 << imo the entire "obamacare is a tax not a fine, but a fine not a tax, but the irs can't go after you except if they owe you tax returns" has been mostly an exercise in "we don't wanna pay tax returns anymore".
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 19:35:44; TheNewDeal: did trilema migrate?
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 18:49:07; trinque: they'll ram this through the same way if it takes 30 years
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1099930 << in 30 years the "tech companies" will be exactly like the janissary corps. a very expensive pretense.
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 18:30:28; pete_dushenski: "Note: To stall core development 6 years after inception is perhaps the stupidest thing anyone has ever recommended in the history of time." << because 'sapien' knows all the histories nao ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1099891 << on the basis of that bill i'd say the six in question are poor.
mircea_popescu: mmkay ima be going through the log here.
trinque: "The practical effect of the tax is to tax income of certain City residents within a certain income range and is therefore not a poll or head tax." LOL
trinque: so they can finger (paw?) paint
williamdunne: trinque: I was led to believe it was for the disabled gay orphaned puppies
lobbes: "If due, the Arts Tax is $35 per person"
trinque: yeah, you know, to support... art... for the children (?)
jurov: "If you actually go to read the details of the proposal rather than relying only on the headline, you'd find that there is an intent to actually let you continue to use http for, e.g., localhost."
lobbes: 'the time for plaintext is over' l0l
jurov: "Finally, some people conflate the idea of a global transition from plain HTTP to HTTPS as a move by CA's to make more money. They might argue that first, we need to get rid of CA's or provide an alternative path for obtaining certificates. I disagree. Switching from plain HTTP to HTTPS is step one. Step two might include adding more avenues for establishing trust and authentication."
williamdunne: lobbes: The USG does the same on foreign earned income.. when you neither live nor work in the US
lobbes: ah, but these aren't even state taxes. 'Local Tax'
mats: and you can't tell them to fuck off if you live out of state?
lobbes: Of course they don't tell you this when you move into these municipalities, thus leaving many fucked a few years down the line with interest, et al
lobbes: re: tax idiocy. There are towns where I live that feel fit to tax income on residents that make their money out-of-town.
jurov: as "free money" i tend to imagine something other
assbot: The usefulness of idiots. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1O7wHSh )
williamdunne: "Did you know that the average tax return so far for 2015 is $3,539! What would, or will, you do with that hard earned money the government so graciously returned to you after borrowing it at 0% interest?"
ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> mircea_popescu: Do you not think it would be useful to be able to set a reminder without leaving your text editor? This is the sort of mundane task I was thinking of (certainly not enough to spark any sort of industry)
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: they're as yet unknown to me
mircea_popescu: who are the gypsies in question ?
williamdunne: The calculation wouldn't change regardless of hashrate change would it?
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 17:43:05; TheNewDeal: anyone ever seen a calculation for typical statistical two week step for a difficulty change at flat hashrate?
mircea_popescu: heh. the saudis are stuck. sitting on a pile of non renewable resources is only valuable if the resources are still relevant.
mats: "In 2005, when a book by oil analyst Matthew Simmons predicted a drop-off in Saudi output would signal that global supplies were beginning an irreversible decline, Naimi belittled the claims and promised higher production capacity. He won the argument. The Saudis pump more today than a decade ago." heh.
assbot: Saudi Arabia's Plan to Extend the Age of Oil - Bloomberg Business ... ( http://bit.ly/1zazKCx )
mats: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-12/saudi-arabia-s-plan-to-extend-the-age-of-oil
williamdunne: trinque: guess it depends on the amount of functionality, doesn't seem like it would require to much to cover a fairly large number of commands
trinque: the speech-to-text maybe not; parsing and interpeting what's said, surely
williamdunne: trinque: I'll have a look at it, I just like the idea of saying "remind me to get food out of the oven in 20" while in the middle of doing something that might actually matter
williamdunne: wayback-machine does all sorts of derpy things, like it uses the current robots.txt rather than the historical robots.txt at the time of publication.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: fetlife has told the wayback-machine to drop your blog post
mircea_popescu: the way back machine apparently sucks. good to know
assbot: The Fetlife Meatlist - Volume II on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1zayj6R )
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 17:20:03; williamdunne: *This URL has been excluded from the Wayback Machine.*
TheNewDeal: !down TheNewDeal
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Do you not think it would be useful to be able to set a reminder without leaving your text editor? This is the sort of mundane task I was thinking of (certainly not enough to spark any sort of industry)
mircea_popescu: the welfare governments wish to cultivate this pretense.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne it's a psychological thing dood. there's a large swath of imbeciles pretending like they're using computers.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Seems to me that being able to use voice commands could have limited usage for mundane tasks, so they can be performed without distraction from what you are actually trying to do
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: don't forget the basic formula here
mircea_popescu: roughly speaking, the dwim dweeb crowd.
ascii_field for what it's worth expects to be killed in some variation on this theme
ascii_field: '"Although I cannot regret my actions last Sunday, I unequivocally wish I could have visited Mr. Dunphy at a point in his life where another level of intervention may have been possible," the officer wrote in the email, obtained by CBC News.'
mircea_popescu: no, shooting the "dictatorial couple" is neither here nor there. shooting ^ that guy is the point.
mircea_popescu: it's quite obvious executions will be required, and en masse. just saying it now so people don't start pestering me with concerns once we're in a position to do it, like they did last fucking time around.
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 16:31:45; pete_dushenski: such science these paleotards
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2015#1099792 << what's wrong with the bit in question ?
mircea_popescu: but also shoot the fact that he's a murderer for hire shooting people.
mircea_popescu: some idiot canadian murderer for hire thinks that working for the prime minister allows him to not only shoot random people
mircea_popescu: "For Mr. Dunphy, we were simply too late but that doesn't mean we stop forging ahead into hopelessness, anguish and despair with the view of creating betterment, safety and wellbeing for the citizens we serve."
Michail1: Thanks. That is the one I used; however, that one is more geared to debian although I did arch. Also, that link doesn't tell you that booting from the USB3 ports doesn't work (costing me an hour).
trinque: as far as which distro, it's just a matter of preference; nothing in one or the other will rule out operating on the pogo
assbot: Qui's techNOLOGY Blog: Hacking the Pogoplug v4 (Series 4 and Mobile) with Linux (Debian or Arch) ... ( http://bit.ly/1zawNBG )
trinque: http://blog.qnology.com/2014/07/hacking-pogoplug-v4-series-4-and-mobile.html << I also found this helpful as a general guide to putting a linux on the thing.
ascii_field: the original cookbook used arch.
Michail1: Thanks. As I was converting the plug, I discovered that both builds were listed/suggested, but wanted to know if there was a reason to choose one over the other. Hell, I will just make one of each since there is no compelling reason to do one over the other.
ascii_field: build own linux. instructions can be found in the log.
ascii_field: Michail1: what is the machine used for? for instance, if as a blunt weapon, than a length of chain is preferably to debian -and- arch
trinque: depends mostly on whether you have a working kernel config
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2015 15:53:31; nubbins`: consider how quickly your tongue healed the last time you bit it hard enough to draw blood and oaths
ascii_field: but to my eye this is a reason to dispense with the 'expiration' and other nebulous 'meta' entirely.
ascii_field: ^ and yes this doesn't exist because it is not physically possible to implement it as a hard guarantee (why is an exercise for the reader)
ascii_field: ditto the key expiration thing