mod6: I'll try to checkin at the ice-cream shop if they have wifi incase you can't get ahold of hanbot.
mod6: mthreat: Currently, we're about to head out to an ice-cream shop -- we'll be walking there. If you hvae hanbot's number, give her a ring. :]
mod6: I think that the idea is to get some icecream
mod6: hey guys, mp, hanbot and chetty are here with ascii & davout and me in the lobby
funkenstein_: meanwhile the people who actually know how to do it are quietly putting a bird in the sky every two weeks
assbot: Logged on 19-04-2015 14:37:11; ascii_lander: ben_vulpes: http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us/electronic-systems/avionics/ << radhard fpga is available, for its weight in diamonds, but does anyone actually fly with d-sub connectors? they aren't rated for vibration...
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=19-04-2015#1104478 << more lulz: "The avionics system in the original Space Shuttle weighed approximately 10,000 lbs (4,500kg) excluding cabling. Electron’s avionics system weighs just 19lbs (8.6kg)." << 'lighter than a model t!'
mod6: chetty: ok thanks for the heads-up :]
ascii_lander: ben_vulpes: http://www.rocketlabusa.com/about-us/electronic-systems/avionics/ << radhard fpga is available, for its weight in diamonds, but does anyone actually fly with d-sub connectors? they aren't rated for vibration...
mod6: np, we'll be in the lobby.
mod6: im chillin in the lobby if anyone in-country is up yet.
ben_vulpes: man i am a) not sober enough for this shit that appears to be really dumb without supporting evidence and b) what the shit
ben_vulpes: http://www.rocketlabusa.com/index.html << apropos of nothing, what the shit am i looking at
ben_vulpes: or morning or whatever the fuck it is in twodoglandia?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: "magic ships run on magic computers we don't understand how they work but 1/10 chance of gr8 r1ch3s!"
ben_vulpes: ascii_whatever_it_is_today would no doubt call this "exercise for student" but i cannot in good conscience call these people students of anything computer related
ben_vulpes: sign things selectively and then when it leaks say "mnope doth not bear my signature, get lost"
ben_vulpes: there's a really simple solution here
ben_vulpes: http://dpaste.com/1N6B7HG.txt << i'm sorry, all of the "plz foar not to forward because i might conceivably send this to the wrong person" email sigs
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 14:35:10; davout: they're looking for a remote senior rails dev
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104308 << plan obviously is to take the job for $MININT (what derps can pay), perform $MINWORK (what davouts slavejob affords him in terms of spare time [idly, i wonder how he's going to do anything what with the FOXTROT LIMA YANKEE BRAVO OSCAR YANKEE hobby]) something something something qmark x 3 subsequently lulz i hope
ben_vulpes: after of course six months of actually reading the logs instead of diving in and you know what nevermind
gribble: The operation succeeded.
cazalla: juicy bit "By way of introduction, we are acting as legal advisors to Bitcoinist.net Ltd. and Máté Tokay in relation to their negotiations with GAW Miners regarding the planned asset purchase."
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes the wedding kicks off this eve... will report back tomorrow. how's the irl cult ?
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103882 << heh. just trying to balance the grey hairs!
ascii_lander: BingoBoingo: if it works, for some value of works - i'll get nationalized; the firm will go bust, naturally; and it will be declared 'bad luck.'
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 12:54:16; BingoBoingo: This is the sort of drug that if it is effective could make Obolacare very expensive-er.
davout: so you just basically crawled URLs to enumerate users? they're using the default URL scheme, pretty retarded
mircea_popescu: zero op ability, as shown for instance by the fact that... the list you see is freshly scrapped.
mircea_popescu: from what i hear this thing exists in the terms that the derp "in charge" hired some indians off fiverr to make him a fb clone, paid fiddy bucks
davout: they're looking for a remote senior rails dev
davout: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/the-fetlife-meatlist-volume-iii/ <<< link to II in fact links to I
ascii_lander: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104219 << sop. and what was the reason to think that this was confined to west coast
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 10:27:24; mircea_popescu: current theory being that this is the absolutely only interaction usians have with elitism, and so they love it for their own starvation, not for its (mostly absent) literary merits
ascii_lander: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104215 << this is absolutely the complete theory. the thing was garbage, but the only extant illustration of the concept permitted in usaschwitz (possibly for that reason)
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: i can quote the entire thing likewise, but minus the peculiar orthographic scottishisms
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 10:36:05; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104146 "There's some who come to see me hanged, yet some to buy my fiddle - but 'fore I do the partin' wi' her, I'll tear her through the middle."
mircea_popescu: php 5.4 decides to combine E_ALL and E_STRICT. because why the fuck not. next thing you know, half terrabyte of logs expounding on FUCKTARDED php 5.4 "warnings"
mircea_popescu: myeah. the obamakiller.
BingoBoingo: This is the sort of drug that if it is effective could make Obolacare very expensive-er.
BingoBoingo: And since its injectable at first there's costs associated with the clinic, and any other drugs it gets cocktailed up with...
BingoBoingo: The way a drug like this get priced is $maxint
mircea_popescu: im curious what the eventual side-effect will be.
BingoBoingo: The general direction this particular kind of thing being this efficacious suggests... Oncology could get very interesting.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo what's the idea there, test works so well they just can't keep feeding the control group sugar pills, move everyone on drug ?
mircea_popescu: <yang> maybe a short intro/description wouldn't hurt on the website... < notrly open to the general public.
yang: maybe a short intro/description wouldn't hurt on the website...
fluffypony: it's evolved a bit from then
fluffypony: yang: it's a chat room, initially the purpose was to discuss Bitcoin-based assets (eg. stocks and securities)
yang: I browsed to the website of bitcoin-assets, but there is no explanation what an asset is, can someone clarify it for me ?
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask yang!yang@freenode/sponsor/fsf.member.yang. Trust relationship from user mircea_popescu to user yang: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mircea_popescu&dest=yang | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=yang | Rated since: Sat Dec 11 07:28:54 2010
mircea_popescu: lol naw. tho stan doth have a way with the gypsy girls.
BingoBoingo: Is that what I'm missing on the day 2 tour?
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/9c944b63fd1bca17472cace9fe02db20/tumblr_nagezj0nJh1sydo5do1_1280.jpg
davout: "the light keeps me awake when she sleeps with her mouth open"
mircea_popescu: "god damned it i pissed in the fridge again"
davout: mod6: but, what was your first thought when not seeing a light switch in the closet?
mircea_popescu: (this is funny because russian sucks enough the speakers'd use "learns" for "teaches").
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:33:17; ben_vulpes: stahp ascii_lander i cannot spare the time for learning russian
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 05:20:33; ascii_lander: ben_vulpes: 'Fareweel, ye dungeons dark and strong, / Fareweel, Fareweel tae thee. / MacPherson's time will nae be lang / On yonder gallows tree. / Sae rantin'ly, sae wantonly / Sae dauntin'ly gaed he / He played a sprig and danced a jig / Below the gallows tree.' (™) (R)
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104146 "There's some who come to see me hanged, yet some to buy my fiddle - but 'fore I do the partin' wi' her, I'll tear her through the middle."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104138 << more like, "some form of tree fort where clever girl and some derpy dudes dream collectively of art and the world". you're from portland, you should know how this works
mircea_popescu: much like romanians read supermarket catalogues above anything because OMG THEY HAVE ITEMS IN THEM!!1
mircea_popescu: current theory being that this is the absolutely only interaction usians have with elitism, and so they love it for their own starvation, not for its (mostly absent) literary merits
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104132 << no, i happened to read it (because blondy friend insisted it's the greatest thing ever) but i didn't think much of it myself.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:17:25; Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.
mircea_popescu: tried closing the door yo ?
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 04:30:56; mod6: did anyone figure out how to turn the closet light off?
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 04:02:31; ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: i've barely scratched the surface of gpg, and otr has no lineage in my wot so i describe the tools i'd use were i to think PFS useful for me
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1104000 << there's an otr module for most irc clients. im not entirely sure it does anything useful.
mircea_popescu: btw, the "last time" on twitter meanwhile turned up. http://trilema.com/2011/de-ce-se-bate-femeia/#comment-99915
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 03:58:19; assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:31:01; Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103979 << hory shit, where is this still done by hand ? they got those machiens don't they.
ascii_lander: 'I've liv'd a life of sturt and strife; / I die by treacherie: / It burns my heart I must depart, / And not avenged be. / There's some come here tae see me hanged / And some to buy my fiddle. / But before I do part wi' her / I'll brak her thro' the middle./ He took the fiddle in both of his hands/ And he broke it o'er a stone./ Says,"There's nae ither hand shall play on thee/ When I am dead and gone."'
ben_vulpes: stahp ascii_lander i cannot spare the time for learning russian
ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: whence the logs contention? iirc you said nothing about your occupation in-chan...
ascii_lander: mega-mindphuck to anyone who knows either variant
ben_vulpes: 'tisn't the typing part of computers as what's damaging to me poor meatsack
ascii_lander: ^ there is a top-octane ru translation of this i was taught as a boy
ascii_lander: ben_vulpes: 'Fareweel, ye dungeons dark and strong, / Fareweel, Fareweel tae thee. / MacPherson's time will nae be lang / On yonder gallows tree. / Sae rantin'ly, sae wantonly / Sae dauntin'ly gaed he / He played a sprig and danced a jig / Below the gallows tree.' (™) (R)
ben_vulpes: i don't even know what opsec means either
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: dude just how influential WAs that book. << to the point that it became among the only 'science fictional' yarns elevated to 'classic' and made mandatory in schools, etc, in usa
Citizenfive: Well anyway, if you believe you know all the details and have the threat vectors properly mitigated, then you're already compartmenting, so don't worry about any of this
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: … asks what happens if there's nothing in a box. "well... there'd be air" "no, not even air"…. "so then a vacuum" "no, not even vacuum" << my brother tormented me with this 'what-if' when was a boy
ascii_lander: can't speak for others, but no gods involved with this junker
ascii_lander: who build the computer you are sitting on? gods?
ascii_lander: and implications thereof
ascii_lander: Citizenfive: there is also the option of learning basic principles of how apparatus is put together
Citizenfive: For most of us here, that means either (1) resign to being an NPC, and stay off the radar that would allow use of *those* sorts of USG assets, or (2) compartment, compartment, compartment
ascii_lander: Citizenfive: in place of surrender - decide, to go to the bottom of the sea with honour
ascii_lander: Citizenfive: this is where one discovers that the machine is not magic. and that resistance is possible.
Citizenfive: if the threat model includes USG, at the DPR-severity level (Senators declaring war on you — see Schumer etc a couple years ago), only compartmentation will save you (maybe)
Citizenfive: as for anything else, on the hardware... again, all depends on the threat model. Pretty sure there are microcode backdoors in everything, so
ascii_lander: mircea_popescu: as oft said here, the situation is so soviet it bleeds. << ahahaha guess what.
Citizenfive: Well it's safer than OS X. How many mainstream OSes are there?
ben_vulpes: i don't get the windows line
Citizenfive: Hence, maybe — holyfuckwhatanidea — financially incentivize Tor scrutinization at the protocol level? O.O
Citizenfive: Well those are among the most widely used and studied things in all of cryptoland. Vs. everything else, i.e. some arbitrary piece of FOSS something. Stuff like Tor is what gives everyone a false sense that everyone is all over everything in FOSSland
ben_vulpes: Windows is currently the most secure mainstream OS. I mean, we can’t stand _using_ it, but that doesn’t change the facts. The kernel is golden, the userland protections
ben_vulpes: i'm too much of a derp to really grok the implication of the statement, though, having failed all of my tradecraft classes.
ben_vulpes: As I write this, the prosecution has showed that DPR’s private PGP key was on Ross Ulbricht’s laptop. How’s that strong proof of identity looking now? << funnily, it's more or less common knowledge that they shared the key around
ben_vulpes: So the moral, if anything, is “run slowly and learn to speak bear” << hyu
Citizenfive: making things and meddling with the rest
ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> [02:56] mircea_popescu: This is trial by a jury of your peers in the WoT << o.O
ben_vulpes: "i guess i'll try to sleep with light leaking out from underneath the OHHHHHHH"
mod6: i nearly unscrewed the bulb.e
ben_vulpes: hotel redacto has the most delightful puzzles
ben_vulpes: mod6: close the door
mod6: did anyone figure out how to turn the closet light off?
ben_vulpes: <Citizenfive> ... whatever system of governance the US has ... isn't a good system << awh but i love it it's going to burn itself out so much more quickly than other more reasonable alternatives
ben_vulpes: !up Citizenfive anyways, welcome. don't mind me, i'm just the court clown.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> [01:57] we actually ran out of dock, five miles later. << i whet their appetite for you
ben_vulpes: "and that nobody's going to be able to tell him which is right at that level, but he keeps them in his head, hoping that they'll give him different ideas" << story of my NPC-dom in le cultissima
Citizenfive: iirc there's something useful on the concept in herehttps://grugq.github.io/presentations/COMSEC%20beyond%20encryption.pdf
ben_vulpes: also i've been drinking with the cult so please forgive
ben_vulpes: "give me six words of an innocent man, and i will find something in them with which to hang him"
Citizenfive: For those of us who will be avoiding the gasenwagen
Citizenfive: oh I don't care if it's _the_ "OTR" but that sort of key architecture is desirable
ben_vulpes: but i'm bound for the gasenwagen anyways, why bovver i ask
ben_vulpes: Citizenfive: i've barely scratched the surface of gpg, and otr has no lineage in my wot so i describe the tools i'd use were i to think PFS useful for me
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 02:31:01; Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: That would be the one
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 19:08:40; trinque: BingoBoingo: anyone figure out whether ascii was fucking around or if that was an actual impersonator?
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103567 << best guess is wifi hotspot across street and wacky irc client config. nevertheless...
assbot: Logged on 17-04-2015 20:27:29; pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes but what if i wanna advertise my pgp version and its implied affiliations ? also, sorry for skipping your scoop mention in the cavirtex article, it just seemed a little tardy to have mentioned it.
williamdunne: It was based off of the Qntra comment, although apparently the trial is based upon these characteristics: >> What do you say, Mircea? Are you a narcissist? "Narcissist" means egotistical, self-focused, and vain.
mircea_popescu: eh in the sense of "i think i might have been raped" fits most modern descriptions of rape.
mircea_popescu: Citizenfive i was just discussing a snipped from the thing he linked
Citizenfive: I seem to have improperly conveyed the degree of importance I place on this "word" stuff. It's not particularly important; don't worry about it.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: This is trial by a jury of your peers in the WoT
Citizenfive: That'd be interesting, as I don't believe either of those.
Citizenfive: Basically, all can be sorted out via Socratic roundtables — everyone looking to, fundamentally, prove themselves WRONG, rather than to prove themselves RIGHT. Eventually the people at the table find and exorcise their internal inconsistencies, and arrive together at Reality.
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:17:25; Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I wonder what was said internally at the SEC about your offer to govern the world of BTC assets?
mircea_popescu: if you've already lost the war, why are you derping with axes and shit.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103712 << why would you wish to be anonymous ? other than "because i've already lost the war".
mircea_popescu: Citizenfive the next trick to find is that you can get people quite bothered by carefully using their contributions to words.
Citizenfive: The trick is how to discuss democracy, then, when everyone has their own idea of what it means. Or any topic. I've found most arguments can be traced to the arguers somewhere having slightly different internal definitions for something.
mircea_popescu: nigga... say wut ?! what "lack of governance" wonder be this, of the box so empty it doesn't even contain a vacuum ?
trinque: Citizenfive | What I'm saying, if I'm saying *anything*, is that the words don't matter. << I used to think this; lately I consider it an autoimmune disorder caused by lifetime immersion in symbolic shit
mircea_popescu: "so then a vacuum" "no, not even vacuum"
mircea_popescu: williamdunne suppose you have a five year old kid on your knees and she asks what happens if there's nothing in a box. "well... there'd be air" "no, not even air"
mircea_popescu: Citizenfive can you distinguish between the "words don't matter" position and (mutatis mutandins), the "BUT it is called the Worldwide Web so there really is NO chance of any site being 100% secure" ?
williamdunne: Would lack of governance not be the alternative? (or self-governance if that wording floats your boat).
Citizenfive: What I'm saying, if I'm saying *anything*, is that the words don't matter. And as a word, democracy seems to have too many contradictory definitions to be especially useful as a descriptor. If US = democracy, well, that's not good. If Switzerland = democracy, that's a bit better, though the consensus is that beast is a "DIRECT democracy".
mircea_popescu: there's really no alternative : either one or the other. republics fail because not enough spartans, democracies are all one because idiots are all one. cccp was a democracy too.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne anyway, to do some positive work : democracy is the notion that what people think matters. the exact opposite of alf's favourite, "the cold equations" (which'd describe a republic).
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: My particular complaint is that while we can evaluate who has more value in this particular system, the people with value's opinions have no more weight in process than those without. Hence a large number of welfare whores/elderly having a lot of influence
assbot: Logged on 18-04-2015 01:00:47; trinque: williamdunne: I think the idea is eventually to have a full stack within the WoT
mircea_popescu: merely the fact that this question can be asked would seem to pull the rug from under yer feet eh.
Citizenfive: Right. And so long as people accept that God wrote the Bible because the Bible says so, or a democracy is good because a "democracy" says so, will miss questioning what any of those things ARE.
williamdunne: Citizenfive: Any system that provides people with the ability to voice and attempt to enact opinions they are not qualified to have is a bad idea in my books. The crowd has no wisdom, select actors with value behind them do.
mircea_popescu: any play's equally successful if played out for the goats.
mircea_popescu: well you're right in that it would try and to thew same degree succeed to masquerade as anything else, including a teosophy.
Citizenfive: anyway I don't want to get lost into semantics; I think most here understand whatever system of governance the US has, it manages to masquerade as a democracy, and isn't a good system. Whatever that says about the word is less important to me.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in orc speak, everything means the same and is spelled "urgh"
mircea_popescu: english is THE KING'S english.
mircea_popescu: modern art is quite meaningful, yes. ever read the "what is art" thing ?
williamdunne: Citizenfive: I completely agree; but I will assume they were going with the definition of diluting power to all, something along the lines of direct democracy
mircea_popescu: we could say that the meaning of democracy is fundamentally undemocratic.
Citizenfive: It is useful in describing something. Like the word modern. Modern car. Modern house. Modern, by itself, may or may not be useful. Modern art?
mircea_popescu: eh, democracy is a thing, even if derpy iliterate muricans never bother to learn what the words mean. it's not gonna change what it is just because a bunch of people have nfi.
mircea_popescu: "Over drinks last night, one of the beautiful young ladies in attendance brought up the question of free will with me. " << eh petey...
mircea_popescu: williamdunne well, obviously it is the answer, just, not to any question worth asking.
Citizenfive: Because the internet lets all minds who question these things find these places, QED (probably) there are fewer minds than we'd like
Citizenfive: Those who notice the re-runs and recycled plots eventually wind up here, and a few other places where such minds go
williamdunne: Citizenfive: I'm probably one of the younger people here, and from my experience the biggest complaints are that any sort of discourse from rhetoric is largely discouraged, and you are given almost no freedom as to move outside the syllabus.
Citizenfive: Not influential enough. But then everyone thinks Hunger Games is omg so relevant!
gribble: Ender Wiggin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender_Wiggin>; Andrew Wiggin - Orson Scott Card Wiki: <http://ansible.wikia.com/wiki/Andrew_Wiggin>; How Much Is Ender Wiggin Worth? - Forbes: <http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2013/07/31/how-much-is-ender-wiggin-worth/>
Citizenfive: It's not a grand conspiracy of course; there are no reptilian overlords, but the state of things is curiously perplexing.
Citizenfive: I believe there are few good English-speaking minds; those countries do too thorough a job of taking children with potential and delivering batteries (as in, the Matrix sort) into adulthood. There are few Ender Wiggin minds left by the age of 18.
mircea_popescu: as oft said here, the situation is so soviet it bleeds.
mircea_popescu: i can specifically measure the former.
mircea_popescu: this is concerning, because it has two possible explanations. one being that my intel sucks, the other being that the us is running out of people.
Citizenfive: mircea_popescu: small world. Extremely so, though I guess bell curves and the size of the developed physical world explain most of it.
mircea_popescu: Citizenfive oh is it ? which was the 1st ?
Citizenfive: The question is why the second time; my guess is via this thread → https://twitter.com/AlekseiV/status/586780660553031680
Citizenfive: williamdunne: I've known of it and lurked periodically over the years. This marks the second time MP has personally invited me, and it'd be rude to not see why, at the least.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=18-04-2015#1103677 << it's entirely a legalistic gimmick. somehow court manages to convince itself it's too good to just go read the forum, must order someone to copy it down for it. sorta like ottoman turks.
Citizenfive: The US is a cult. Most countries are. :)
williamdunne: Citizenfive: "you're the twitter chick ?" - I'm assuming this was addressed at you
mircea_popescu: who isn't these days.
Citizenfive: I will consider it the compliment that it is, in this "country", and am grateful for it.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I was just pointing out that its quite rare, they can go at their own pace;)
williamdunne: Citizenfive: Any backstory to the 'twitter' association?
mircea_popescu: tsk, let ppls go at their own pace.
Citizenfive: For politeness and the convenience of the asseteers, I will register if I stick around.
mircea_popescu: hey, you're the twitter chick ?
Citizenfive: Trinique wins, with bonus points. I usually use the bit about knowing the name of a bird.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103568 << the official word is that the behaviour couldnb't be reproduced (ben tried amongothers) and prolly alf did some strange locally.
mircea_popescu: "Slack brings all your communication together in one place. It's real-time messaging, archiving and search for modern teams."
trinque: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MO0r930Sn_8 << must've been the idiots guide to the concept
trinque: the magnetism one came to mind because he goes from a superficial understanding of the thing to a deeper and deeper description, ultimately saying "we have no idea"
trinque: Citizenfive: reminds me a bit of the vid where he discusses magnetism
Citizenfive: The above is Feynman's favorite XKCD, and whoever can tell me why becomes my favorite asseteer
Citizenfive: It automates collecting and remembering-correctly certain things. These actions were previously done in one's own head, usually with less fidelity and in ways that required more effort or energy or whatever. Idk, I call it automation, but it doesn't really matter.
Citizenfive: I'm not prepared to type enough to really explain my thinking at the moment
Citizenfive: But we'll get there. That's the difficulty with anything. The WoT automates some rep stuff, but doesn't automate KNOWING what really is and isn't automated, or something like that
trinque: and the chain of connections from that point onward is known
trinque: you connect to some node that's the all-welcoming orifice and it forwards it on
trinque: however in the process of doing said leaking, and especially in the process of *establishing* trust one may want deniable messaging
Citizenfive: I guess that, and more critically, amoung its users, I see too much overreliance on it (which is to say, people who don't fully grip the CAPS&LIMS of it as a tool)
trinque: true enough, and one might want to know later he's dealing with the same citizenfour as last time
trinque: danielpbarron: say, oh I don't know, I'm deep within the NSA... and I want to leak some documents
Citizenfive: trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/
assbot: What the WoT is for, how it works and how to use it. on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/18l11un )
trinque: probably referring to http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ which I've read
Citizenfive: Without searching, if he tells me [user X] also uses it properly, I would probably trust that. All subject to the extent that I trust MP's intentions and motivations, which is sorta the point of a WoT
Citizenfive: Right now, too few users of the WoT know how to use it *properly*, so it's not super important to me at this time. When that changes, I will use it.
trinque: take the namesake of this nick ^
Citizenfive: fuck's sake, the WoT is fine, lol; it too is a tool
Citizenfive: The visual breaks down, but I'm amenable to a solution that uses both pegs in some way.
trinque: Citizenfive: it appears one of the goals of the gossipd network is for the topology of the network to be the topology of the WoT
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-04-2015#1103663 https://i.imgur.com/tQqNT11.jpg <<< see quite a few of these here or similar style
Citizenfive: Both are very good tools. At present, I see many solutions trying to fit the square peg of PGP into the gaping goatse of "maintaining OPSEC in an adverse environment of well-heeled adversaries". That is, it fits, but a large round peg, perhaps OTR, would allow less... spillage.
trinque: depends on the situation
trinque: the latter is a feature one could use or not
trinque: I want the former without question
williamdunne: Citizenfive: They would effectively need to be mutually exclusive if deniability is what you're going for in any group chat setting would they not