asciilifeform: livegnik: consider telling us what you perceive is the advantage of your product over what you now know is the state of the art.
asciilifeform: livegnik: are you familiar with the 'wot' we use here ?
asciilifeform: (naturally, usg will pocket the bulk of this difference, but such is the nature of muppet war)
asciilifeform: there will be myriad parasitic waterfalls like 'uber', i expect, which feed upon the difference between what it -actually- costs to do something like driving cab - at butugychag subsistence levels with zero regard for the meatbag's future - and what usgtronic tentacles which masquerade as american firms presently charge.
asciilifeform: and probably has a day job, so he doesn't need anything like a 'living wage' either
asciilifeform: in the sese that random schmuck driving 'uber' has no paperwork, no pensions, no unemployment insurances, cannot sue for anything, etc.
asciilifeform: <trinque> end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility << this is part of it, but the major profit comes from de-institutializing - de-usgizing - the cabbies and hotels
trinque: asciilifeform: ah yeah they were total trolls at my old gig
asciilifeform: <trinque> poor hotel cleaning ladies dealt with actual human shit far more often than I'd have expected << one of the major brainmelters for me, when i went to c3, was that the gurlz who serviced the hotel rooms, were pretty
mod6: 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
mod6: # sha512sum asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
livegnik: I didn't know in what other way to describe it in ~140 characters. Open for suggestions / feedback anytime :)
asciilifeform actually used 'uber' for the first - and so far, only time - getting back from airport after c3
livegnik: I'm Tim Pastoor, co-founder of Identifi. I'm just the business developer who's working on the project. Sirius is the real dev in there.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu> sort-of like impromptu dentistry << big business in the turd world (of which usa is properly considered - a part)
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ? << 'airbnb', 'uber', etc. fill a direly urgent market niche in usa - 'orcish' favour-style services for folks with no friends. it would take a very strong chance of being busted, for folks to quit using these. (consider what is the penalty for, e.g., smoking weed - does it deter?)
asciilifeform: unless explicitly asked otherwise.
asciilifeform: sha512(asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch) == 9d7cab14db48000ed91d12301f19341ce55e86fe919922f8a4f80f49625b881b296deb037d35ef899996e097b4f1c0ab5a035c2ced04758b9838f3924ce4ed78
asciilifeform: <danielpbarron> there's yer answer: it's sha1 << why do we have sha1 anywhere
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> tho i suppose this one's small enough to read << they should ALL be small enough to read.
asciilifeform started valgrindized run of thermonuked-orphanage tester
assbot: nullc comments on Why increasing the max block size is urgent | Gavin Andresen ... ( http://bit.ly/1zuFigz )
trinque: for the kernel boot parameters provided by the bootloader, might be via this thing https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AWSEC2/latest/UserGuide/UserProvidedKernels.html
mod6: i guess I can rebuild again and stick that in there.
mod6: that's for the kernel config right?
trinque: on the kernel command line
mod6: check the last 3 lines of this: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-custom-kernel_panic3.txt
mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/kernel-config-20150503 << kernel config
mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/build-stage3-notes.txt << build notes
mod6: meanwhile in gentoo land, kernel panic'd again: http://thebitcoin.foundation/gentoo-stage3-amd64-hardened-nomultilib-custom-kernel_panic3.txt
mod6: otherwise, why do it?
mod6: The hash referenced inthe email was for the bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE.tar.gz tarball, which is correct.
mod6: i thought it /was/ supposed to be the same. but, maybe im just derp derperton tonight.
mod6: if not, see if they came out same as mine from my dpaste
mod6: yep, got that too... but check the sha256's of the dl'd patch files, see if they match the checksums that the ml inserted into the file name.
mod6: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4007 May 5 00:19 asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
mod6: mircea_popescu: anyway, yeah, agreed. I did look it over, and is matching from website as far as I can tell. & byte count is the same.
mod6: curl -s http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150504/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_6f320afb2423a2892d89e855829e3915c8b7a170.patch.sig -o asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch.sig
mod6: curl -s http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150504/asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke_2d219fdd1a0da960be38797566e9c0820df11ce6.patch -o asciilifeform_orphanage_thermonuke.patch
mircea_popescu: mod6 iof the hashes don't match you shouldn't generall merge
mod6: http://dpaste.com/1NHSMPB.txt << patched into bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE, sig looks good, although the hash's didn't match what the filename was changed to on btc-dev ml
mircea_popescu: in other news, shoe problems http://40.media.tumblr.com/996bce3d7cadf68f3dcb6cbca5d36ca5/tumblr_n1kzmtoDiA1sx2zfgo4_r1_1280.jpg
Pierre_Rochard: poor people don’t have money problems, they have lack of money problems
Pierre_Rochard: trinque: agreed, I’m thinking I’ll have a source code subscription for the hacker types, and a hosted treasury concierge for the lazy/busy
mircea_popescu: should be a very interesting world once the us is poor and east/central asia ric
trinque: I'm not sure there's enough allowance left to allow sufficient margin for the accounting service
trinque: they just want to be given an allowance by dad after everything's handled
Pierre_Rochard: I have a “personal finance” chart of accounts and a “service business” chart of accounts, they’re CSVs that are easy to customize
mircea_popescu: trinque that's the "innovation" << exactly. and inasmuch as the us tort system is insane, this is both unavoidable and in a sense useful. but this doesn't mean uber makes any sense, anymore than shaving head in women makes sense. "but she's got lice" "well in THAT case"
mircea_popescu: mod6> So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo. << you hear that alf ?
mircea_popescu: williamdunne << wikipedia may not be the best source of information
jurov: *if* you have spare disk space. otherwise, watch out
jurov: disk format is stable. runtime not there yet
trinque: how stable is that these days?
mod6: The first attemp's error might have... I only got a glimpse of it once though, it never let me look at the System log again for some dumb reason.
mod6: anyway, moving on. I'll get the test in motion for asciilifeform's new patch.
mod6: the instructions that you posted were slightly off from what is reality on these environments. (perhaps just a bit old)
mod6: I know for sure I did that the first time... didn't seem to help. however, the first attempt, I'm not positive that I didn't somehow screw-up the fstab.
trinque: depends on whether it's hvm or pvm
mod6: There was some talk that one wouldn't/shouldn't need to change kernels anyway for AWS.
mod6: now, the new one I'm trying; that one has a .config -- that's actually the last thing I just did in the steps, config'd the kern, build the kern. now need to make the AMI and try it.
mod6: <+mod6> (this error is from the build where I /didn't/ build a new kernel) << no new kernel, no .config
trinque: mod6: post the .config
trinque: and you only have the ext3 support turned on
mod6: (this error is from the build where I /didn't/ build a new kernel)
trinque: first thought is whether that's actually an ext4 volume
trinque: "We could deploy a carnival so much more quickly if we didn't bother with safety precautions, and instead let each guest assemble his piece of the rides, and signing off that he is personally liable for that part."
mod6: then, I tried the same thing without a new kernel, with the same result. I'm gonna try one more time with kernel and see if I get any different results.
trinque: that's the "innovation"
trinque: end-cap on the thread is that this trend of Ubering seems to be about trying to dissolve responsibility
mod6: So anyway, maybe I can somehow graph these things. Meanwhile, I'm still wrestling with gentoo.
mod6: so, I have that deb6 aws env still... I used to use MRTG, but now I guess this 'RRD' thing is all the rage. I know for sure that I can test mem on a 1s interval with vmstat and capture that with `script`. I'd really like to compare the network traf of full sync with the patch, and without.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> and yes i wonder about bw. not such megatonnes. << this was the thought that came to my mind too.
williamdunne: trinque: Doesn't look like there has been too much going wrong, a few cases of houses being vandalized, or customers being dickholes
trinque: mod6: right, and everyone on both ends of the transaction will ultimately try to blame their reputation system or whatever didn't work
mod6: <+ascii_field> 'we will slip the cock in with such grease that you will never notice' << heheh, yeah pretty much.
mod6: <+ascii_field> [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full Orphanage Thermonuke. << Just saw this on the train & read patch. Great work!
mats: and then move back in
mats: why not just invite a homeless person into my home and let him stay there for a few days
trinque: so they're going to get dragged into fight after fight, yet they're delegating control over the situation to just about anyone
williamdunne: Renter you would hope, for not cleaning the sheets
mircea_popescu: unlike musk, they're not actually somebody. hard to put up a fight. even with graham's efforts.
mats: they're not publicly traded
mircea_popescu: nobody could have foreseen a blow-up, we're success-oriented these days
williamdunne: Sorta the point
williamdunne: But I don't think that is the point
williamdunne: I've not used Uber before, but I have used AirBNB and it was cheaper than a premier Inn but in a really nice house in the centre of London
mircea_popescu: i fail to see the difference between "here's how to cook if you have hardwood floors" and "here's how to make 30 bux (out of which we take half) by taking on 5k liability"
trinque: sure, that's been the whole social web scam since forever
williamdunne: Everything the USG does is funny
mircea_popescu: airbnb is even funnier, the fine for being part of it is what, 4-5k in ny ?
mircea_popescu: at great coist to themselves.
williamdunne: Isn't the 'Uber of' thing about getting your users to supply the infrastructure rather than getting the expensive assets yourself?
jurov: on second thought, the simile is even more funny
trinque: that's the new "facebook of X"
trinque: "the uber of X" jesus christ
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Bitcoin trader Digital CC aims to become the Uber of money transfers | afr.com ... ( http://bit.ly/1R7JTeg )
cazalla: ;;later tell Vexual your boy zhenya http://www.afr.com/technology/bitcoin-trader-digital-cc-aims-to-become-the-uber-of-money-transfers-20150504-1mxo0j
mircea_popescu: (there's a passive gossip-y sort of sorting that occurs as time goes by, because new clients join and so the "overall" blockchain is ever more sorted in early blocks as time goes by)
ascii_field: the purpose of this patch, incidentally, was not to cure what ails us, but to make it possible to intelligently study the fragging
ascii_field: but it really cooks, in terms of apparent performance on the runway
mircea_popescu: which is why the piece howls like so. "india should be concerned about how we pooped our pants"
mircea_popescu: anyway, i don't perceive what the great danger is here.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu is wondering about wasted bw (of which there is megatonnes) ?
ascii_field: if any part of the patch does not make immediate sense, ask now - i'm about to get into a wheeled coffin for a few hrs
mircea_popescu: myeah reading the patch now
ascii_field: that so far is the instrument
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i have a clock on the wall
mircea_popescu: mats meh, the entire china pakistan thing seems overstated.
mircea_popescu: because it was there.
ascii_field: the real mega-question is why it is in bitcoin
ascii_field: it is so that idiots can use 1,001 incompatible encodings for their hieroglyphs
mircea_popescu: computers are for humans not for whatever the fuck special needs monkeys use "diacritics"
mircea_popescu: and all this so that idiots can use their idiot alphabets.
ascii_field: is the equation here.
ascii_field: 'we will slip the cock in with such grease that you will never notice'
mircea_popescu: "The drawback of using loadable objects is not a problem in the GNU C Library, at least on ELF systems. Since the library is able to load shared objects even in statically linked binaries, static linking need not be forbidden in case one wants to use iconv."
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: aha. the spittoon is brim-full and rancid
ascii_field: many interesting observations could be written re: the echonomy; taxonomy of chumps (free-range vs corralled, etc.) and the like
mircea_popescu: "All the benefits of loadable modules are available in the GNU C Library implementation. This is especially appealing since the interface is well documented (see below), and it, therefore, is easy to write new conversion modules."
mircea_popescu: sort-of works on the infinite mirrors principle.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field it occurs to me that the word funkenstein_ was looking for, to describe the economy of chumps (whose coin is the bezzlar) would be... echonomy.
mircea_popescu: "they're invigorating, to the people who can walk ; selling alcohol helps the echonomy".
assbot: Logged on 04-05-2015 19:47:29; funkenstein_: How about educate the morons?
ascii_field: again, this is a very preliminary thing. i strongly encourage others to attempt replication.
mircea_popescu: As of April 30, 2015, the new price for .ws domains has been increased to
ascii_field: (why? exercise for the alert reader. if no one gets, i will explain at some point)
ben_vulpes: pulling the pin under fire much less so
ben_vulpes: field-testing's the easy part (sort of)
ascii_field: which one of you folks will be the brave man, who tests this one.
ascii_field: 'To honour, while you strike him down, / The foe that comes with fearless eyes; / To count the life of battle good, / And dear the land that gave you birth, / And dearer yet the brotherhood / That binds the brave of all the earth.' (TM) (R)
ascii_field: also the thing syncs ludicrously quickly.
ascii_field: [BTC-dev] (EXPERIMENTAL) Full Orphanage Thermonuke.
lobbes: Now to change the init to something other than systemd (for reasons I don't fully grok yet, other than it is being pushed pretty aggressively, from what I gather)
lobbes got his new 'training laptop' installed with debian over the weekend.
ascii_field: but wtf is that thing even in there for.
ascii_field: mod6: now, as far as i can tell, it doesn't jam up the attempted static build
mod6: ok gotcha. thanks for the heads up.
mod6: <+ascii_field> http://www.gnu.org/software/libc/manual/html_node/glibc-iconv-Implementation.html << wtf is this thing doing in bitcoind << is this another automagically linked in pos to glibc?
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: with ethernet ?!
BingoBoingo: trinque: Putting aside the nonsensical "hospital" and "secure", home use of these things isn't uncommon
trinque: BingoBoingo: hospital networks are required by law to be secure; I don't see the problem with this
pete_dushenski: "Canada's Bombardier Inc and Egypt's Orascom Construction and Arab Contractors will build a $1.5 billion monorail near Cairo, Egypt's housing minister said.The 52 kilometre (32 mile) project is set to be completed by mid-2018 with funding from a 14-year loan" << monorail, monorail, MONORAIL!
funkenstein_: Bad sense developed 1830s-50s, in part from influence of French socialist writings (especially Saint Simon), also perhaps influenced by use of the word in U.S. anti-slavery writing;
trinque: the thing he works for is
trinque: cop isn't the exploiter in that scenario
funkenstein_: actually they will not let you wear a police uniform if you score too well on standardized tests
ascii_field: funkenstein_: who holds the rifle during deer season? man or deer? and why
funkenstein_: Often the "exploiter" is just a moron that has been given a gun and a uniform.
funkenstein_: How about educate the morons?
ascii_field: 'The problem is that "exploitation" happens only to people stupider (and consequently less informed) than the "exploiter". The root cause of this whole world problem is that some people are smarter than others. There are two basic solutions to this problem: Kill all the morons, or kill all the brains. If you look at how several political regimes have behaved throughout history, you might get the impression that they
ascii_field: i will add, for interested readers, that mccarthy's garbage collection (and other items) 'did not count' for the same precise reason why mpex 'does not count' to american muppets, and in general why the annoying kid who 'throws the curve' and sends entire classroom of imbeciles to the bottom of the sea, is decreed to 'not count.'
assbot: Monty Python - Theory on Brontosauruses by Anne Elk (Miss). - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1JlNHDd )
mircea_popescu: "Blanton, Brad 1996, Radical Honesty: How To Transform Your Life By Telling The Truth"
mircea_popescu: much more keenly aware of how retarded engineers are than the contrary.
mircea_popescu: then again in early 2000s.
ascii_field: emotional superstructures over events that had never happened. I saw, in fact, history being written not in terms of what happened but of what ought to have happened according to various ‘party lines’. ' (orwell, 'looking back on the spanish war')
ascii_field: the relationship which is implied in an ordinary lie. I saw great battles reported where there had been no fighting, and complete silence where hundreds of men had been killed. I saw troops who had fought bravely denounced as cowards and traitors, and others who had never seen a shot fired hailed as the heroes of imaginary victories; and I saw newspapers in London retailing these lies and eager intellectuals building
ascii_field: 'I remember saying once to Arthur Koestler, ‘History stopped in 1936’, at which he nodded in immediate understanding. We were both thinking of totalitarianism in general, but more particularly of the Spanish civil war. Early in life I have noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper, but in Spain, for the first time, I saw newspaper reports which did not bear any relation to the facts, not even
mircea_popescu: to this day the principal value of latin america literature is its patent insanity in this sense.
mircea_popescu: new world did exactly the same thing, dressed its solipsism to look like euro truth. but it's still solipsism
mircea_popescu: judea bastardized it into some sort of idiotic mysticism, which is really just rehashing their pre-existing idiocies
mircea_popescu: ascii_field tbh, i suspect the euro notion of truth never really caught on, even in its own colonies.
mircea_popescu: contemporary records are just as unreliable, it's just that meanwhile our friends in the us inhabituated us with this barbarism
ascii_field: cn never really invented 'history' in the euro sense (of at least attempting de-mythologized recordkeeping)
scoopbot_revived: News! Your Own, Personal, Failure URL: http://thewhet.net/2015/your-own-personal-failure/
mats: 14:48:49 <+mircea_popescu> anyway, the general idea of people who did intellectual work with/in china is that the chinese folk, while broadly very servile, are utterly uncreative. << i hear such things repeated all over the english speaking internet... might as well be a meme now
mircea_popescu: fortunately the us is not large enough to retardify china, but i think we're gonna see some pretty spectacular purges down the road.
ascii_field: even now (where is the adult male population of latvia, and why ? etc )
mircea_popescu: ascii_field ftr, that's pretty much how eastern europe ran throughout the 90s too.
ascii_field: not even chumps, as such - many of these folks (i usedto work with'em) are laughing all the way to the bank, riding the thermodynamic waterfall between usd salary and cn cost of living
mircea_popescu: hey, they got a feeding hole, and are feeding.
ascii_field: and virtually every physical sciences whateverthefuck in usa is solidly east asian in staffing
mircea_popescu: ascii_field kinda what makes people unhappy. any slave'll tell you, there's monumental fulfillment in submission.
mircea_popescu: whereas the western folk, while broadly useless, can at least be selected for sanity.
ascii_field: u.s. became the kind of inscrutable and thoroughly-dysfunctional beast we know today partly through the '50-'60s preoccupation with mindgames and 'programmatory' psychochumpatronics, where 'they must not realize they are servile' was the mandatory algo
mircea_popescu: anyway, the general idea of people who did intellectual work with/in china is that the chinese folk, while broadly very servile, are utterly uncreative.
assbot: Logged on 19-07-2014 03:41:36; asciilifeform: even ancient china, apparently, had 'cram schools.' (see miyazaki, 'china's examination hell' - neat little monograph on the subject)
trinque: this scheme of the govt giving you a report card seems intended towards precisely that
trinque: pete_dushenski: probably by reducing them to insecure, servile rubbish
mircea_popescu: the problem, of course, being that with globalization you really can't get options. it'll have to be pret a porter, one thing universally.
ascii_field: how culture answers this realization - determines, largely, whether you get zimbabwe or britain etc
mircea_popescu: this is the inescapable human condition : most people are exactly rubbish
mircea_popescu: the worst part of that being that it's actually true.
ascii_field: goes kinda like this: 'my subjects are rubbish and only fit as cannot fodder or to be worked to death in the mines. possibly after x centuries of this, we can make some better ones.'
mircea_popescu: course the model worked historically about as well as welfarism (aka popular democracy)
mircea_popescu: it seems altogether probable that's what the chinese communist party envisages as ideal, and acts as if were the case.
ascii_field: pete_dushenski: this is actually the historic ru model of development, once termed 'colonialism with crown as the sole european'
pete_dushenski: wherein they're overburdened with structural issues but no superior alternative is knocking down their door.
mircea_popescu: some ills are apparently unavoidable, sure. but the "better folks" got raped meanwhile.
ascii_field: forgo railroads - enjoy the silence - until better folks come along and lower your people into untermenschenrasty and build own rails
mircea_popescu: alternatively : cixi's refusal of railroads did have the end effect of no railroads. but also, of silence.
ascii_field: but, in my analysis, if it weren't for su's heavy diddling, the place would've been carved into manageable bantustans by usa post-war
ascii_field: only by sheer luck, there is still such a thing as chinese
ascii_field: they almost got bulldozed in '30s
mircea_popescu: ascii_field my question remains tho. so they fucked up science. indisputable. to whose detriment ?
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2014 04:52:44; asciilifeform: rec. reading re: china: 'The Rise of Early Modern Science: Islam, China and the West', T. E. Huff
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2014 04:48:55; asciilifeform: of, you could say, insufficiently high temperature in the simulated-annealing sense.
pete_dushenski: it's actually a hell of a team they form.
pete_dushenski: but from whence the baton ? often china.
mircea_popescu: im no expert either.
mircea_popescu: yes. the method is : people are idiots and if you're going to parent them, you gotta parent them.
pete_dushenski: and produced so many of the world's greatest tech.
pete_dushenski: trinque: seems nuts to us, then again, there's a method to the chinese madness or else they wouldn't have ruled so much of the world for so much of modern history.
ascii_field: then rewrote with gmp (what gpg uses)
ascii_field: to be fair, the first time i wrote it, it sucked donkey cock (wrote gcd in python, it was dog-slow and O(n^2) )