chetty: <mircea_popescu> this game i'm the only one that can play is FUCKING GREAT//meanie
jurov: "Moving to a situation in which Windows is a constantly updated service will break out of this cycle, and let Microsoft tinker more with the software to test new features and see how customers like them"
mircea_popescu: this game i'm the only one that can play is FUCKING GREAT
mircea_popescu: needs like... 6 escherian trestleworks among other things to build the fucking mine.
mircea_popescu: this is the greatest mining find to date !
mircea_popescu: in other news, i just laid a claim on a SIZABLE deposit of wooly mushroom in eulora.
decimation: does this mean that pure capitalism tends to fragile oligarchy while government direction of the economy leads to a greater diversity of economic practices?
jurov: by the way, mircea_popescu: is BISP okay with tor exit nodes?
decimation: yeah, there is something to that. it does seem like pure market competition will lead to monopoly, and it takes a sovereign to say 'do it this way or hang'
decimation: what, the tor cloud?
jurov: but debian/ubuntu/suse is supported in the same way
decimation: jurov: do you run the standard aws linux distro or do you have a fully custom image?
decimation: apparently they are too poor to pay that, and nobody else gave a fuck
decimation: yes, there are those who could re-create the fab design toolchain ascii mentioned, but I suppose it is the case that they couldn't be bothered
jurov: there are admins who know how to do it. just.. not interested
decimation: in the tor cloud case, one cannot simply 'run an ec2 host' for nearly free like one can crib another's c code
decimation: jurov: yes indeed. extremely low cost electronic copying has created the tryanny of 'unintentional monopoly', where the first solution that 'works' gets copied to everyone and becomes the defacto standard
jurov: but that "anyone" does not see any advantage switching their job for this
decimation: jurov: but if it were 'anyone's time' than the existing fabs would be kosher?
decimation: so of course only your time will advance the mission
mircea_popescu: the original unix " small program for small job" is exactly an attempt to turn the foregoing into an engineering rule of thumb
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's not that guaranteed. depends where and how the addition happens.
trinque: makes me wonder whether the "climate change" meme exists because people wish humans had that much control over their destiny
trinque: climates change; that's what they do
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 18:54:17; mircea_popescu: even before-r than that, in the 80s, all the left had was "accuse the other of bad things loudly and repeatedly. just that".
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127250 < I remember watching some derpy 'global warming gonna kill us by 2000' documentary as a kid in the 80's. I remember feeling cognitive dissonance when I looked outside and saw that the weather was fine
jurov: and in 2008 closed and moved to the US or wherever
jurov: got bought by motorola, then "on semiconductor"
jurov: there was a fab "tesla piestany" in czechoslovakia able to make 8080 or uart clones
asciilifeform: take, or leave - that is the explanation behind all of the retardation we know as 'computing'
asciilifeform: this is 100% of my 'unified theory' of computing.
asciilifeform: the ultimate failure is that adding people is guaranteed not to work for 'fits in head'.
mircea_popescu: which is unsurprising. for all the dire straights ee, or law, or anything else finds itself in, management is the worst.
asciilifeform: can't speak for other hardware folks here - e.g., ben_vulpes - but suspect they might answer same.
asciilifeform: i can, barely, afford, e.g., electron microscope. or the parts to build an ion beam machine. but what i cannot even remotely afford is the -time-.
asciilifeform: it is interesting to contemplate what is the most expensive piece of technology involved in this circus
mircea_popescu: their "physical" concentration proved to be virtual.
mircea_popescu: it was misperceived by their enemies as "actual", which is how their tactics worked.
mircea_popescu: understand : the "physical concentration" of mongols was EXACTL:Y like what we do here.
asciilifeform: if 'serene republic' ever had any costly physical plant whatsoever - then nukes.
asciilifeform: even mongol horde, the ultimate 'towns are for lusers' gold standard - had physical concentration.
asciilifeform: this again rides on the assumption that physical concentrations of people are strictly something that enemy does, and never us
mircea_popescu: nukes are, in this discussion, theatrical props. we need them like i need a prince albert.
asciilifeform: so far this is handled by ben_vulpes, yours truly, et al being 'stainless steel rats' who scrounge enough fiat in the secular world to run on
mircea_popescu: any merely functional live thing will get its own food and shelter. it's the basis of life.
asciilifeform: i very much get the 'we don't want time-servers, clock-watchers' thing
mircea_popescu: that system works for derp force the 4th. who is, in all terms, worthless.
asciilifeform: not because it is difficult, but because the folks who could afford to - are far too busy with selecting the right cocaine and whores for their atomic dirigible voyage.
asciilifeform: anyway, 'they' aren't here because they are over in that other place where work - with however much friction and statal theft in the loop, sure - turns into food, houses, coke, etc. see also http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3217750625724755@naggum.net.html
mircea_popescu: "my wife couldn't even give birth to an eggplant, what hope is there she could make me an heir"
mircea_popescu: yeah at the time. she needed a house.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, she was saved from ending up in the street by someone here iirc.
mircea_popescu: "looky, just because we're temporarily tolerating the kulaks means nothing. this is like saying the soviets had no factories to its name, 1915."
asciilifeform: except they'll be here shortly after 'here' can even afford to feed the secretary catgurl.
mircea_popescu: the latter part is already implemented.
mircea_popescu: so then.
asciilifeform: then ragnarok
mircea_popescu: what happens once they're all here ?
asciilifeform: and so they can charge $B.
asciilifeform: it costs $1B because there are six people who can honcho a fab
mircea_popescu: so then... what exactly does a fab cost ?
mircea_popescu: does it mean they could ? no, it does not. the proposition is of the kind of "apple shares could buy all of russia". no, they COULD NOT.
mircea_popescu: so, what's a fab cost ? like 10bn or so, say ? less, but anyway. what's the current print rate ? 10x that A MONTH or so ? at least as far as documented (most monetary expansion happens in the dark anyway, it was recently rechristened as "big bank fraud" temporarily, but it is not nor ever was that - most monetary expansion is regulated by the banks)
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:35:26; asciilifeform: just the 'palace economy' you inherently get, from a chip fab costing what it costs
asciilifeform: the idiocy of cpp bitcoind is not an excuse to use 'liberty dollar' etc.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 18:59:40; mircea_popescu: i'm not about to give anything stupid the time of day in any sense, except perhaps to point and laugh at it if it's stupid enough.
mircea_popescu: it's very funny this, they would rather want "sovereignity on windows" than "independence from windows".
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:28:51; asciilifeform: hence why ru missile controllers are built using ancient soviet arch, yes, but the fab is winblows-controlled and the design turns from circuit to mask also in winblows
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127058 << the funniest thing in this line to me is, argentina, which is way up there in the top of "ra ra ra patria si buitres no, ra ra ra" sovereignity derpage. here's where i laughed at them for using windows, and them HATING ME FOR IT!!11 http://www.reddit.com/r/argentina/comments/2g00cw/views_from_argentina_pe_trilema_un_blog_de_mircea/
mircea_popescu: the pretend-sovereigns are really not that good. that's all.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:27:12; asciilifeform: they do
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127054 << no they don't. nobody, including the chinese, including putin, has any fucking idea what this even is, because they lack both the intellectual sophistication to comprehend what matters in the world and go seek the signs, and the power to actually have good advisors that do.
mircea_popescu: looky, just because we're temporarily tolerating the kulaks means nothing. this is like saying the soviets had no factories to its name, 1915.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:22:40; asciilifeform: as for the free world, it has -not one chip fab- to its name
ben_vulpes: or is this people trying to imitate the lispy "jack into running proc" thing with tmux/screen/mosh etc
mircea_popescu: jurov he takes the "rails" bit literally.
jurov: wow. you're running mpex bot directly on the iron?
davout: jurov: blergh, my bot is apparently stuck, doesn't feel like starting up, i'll need to access the physical machine, which will happen in the next 24h
williamdunne: jurov: The SVG is 900kb, lol
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:10:50; asciilifeform: several years ago, i bought the arm chipset chromebook and tried in vain, for ages, to install gentoo on it
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:09:03; asciilifeform: decimation: i'd consider doing this, but doubt there is any serious demand
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1127003 << there is going to be, eventually, yes. from us. in the usual manner.
jurov: there were orders of 400 or so before
mircea_popescu: like a sort of nonviolence proponent that takes it up the pooper.
mircea_popescu: "Its hard to think of another movie since then thats been so quotable, so memorable, so widely watched, and has even aged as well as it has." << except star wars, star trek, most of manga...
hanbot: mircea_popescu is that the philosophy you apply to rewriting poems etc?
mircea_popescu: i'm not about to give anything stupid the time of day in any sense, except perhaps to point and laugh at it if it's stupid enough.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 17:03:44; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126936 << one of the nice things about having the source, regardless of how idiotic the dev process which produced it, is cutting away the crud. which you can do with coreboot, just as with bitcoind etc.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, have a gifoji for the word "fuck". http://38.media.tumblr.com/7c08fc20b88baf11e2554f1a4a94d346/tumblr_myakvhGPdA1s9nnudo1_400.gif
trinque: the idea was you pack the state with enough gun-toting libertarians and things get better-ish
assbot: PorcFest - The 12th Annual Porcupine Freedom Festival PorcFest ... ( http://bit.ly/1KykSUr )
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you're familiar with the supreme vermin?
ben_vulpes: i think earth rape sciences are great! they're expensive and produce absolutely nothing.
mircea_popescu: it progressed slightly from that, to word redefinitions in the 90s, and so on.
mircea_popescu: even before-r than that, in the 80s, all the left had was "accuse the other of bad things loudly and repeatedly. just that".
mircea_popescu: if you care about anthropology, it's a great thing to watch, how the beast acquires skills. that was the major breakthrough there.
davout: not sure i follow the "rape earth sciences"
mircea_popescu: maybe they imagine that their "rape earth sciences" program worked, and maybe they imagine it worked because it was persuasive,
mircea_popescu: course, it's how that country is run, it's how the derps "in charge" got into office, it's the only thing they're tooled to do, and so to the man carrying a bad graph and some banal word tricks...
mircea_popescu: why the fuck do they think addressing themselves to a mathematically illiterate crowd is a valid avenue is entirely beyond my comprehension.
mircea_popescu: davout the amount of herd-herding that the usg has been putting into this is so incredibly useful because a) it really can't do anything but! b) it really does expose the tools.
williamdunne: ah, countering the 419
davout: sure, there are going to be problems for you if the transactions keep growing linearly like that, oh wait, it's a log scale, straight lines are actually exponentials
mircea_popescu: williamdunne nigeria was originally a booming oil economy, attracted a lot of people. then it went stale, and for a while throughout the 90s there was a large community of desperate, socially marginal young men, who took to playing internet con games. eventually there was some reaction in the shape of, "con the nigerians".
davout: the "network-imposed oppression chart" is pretty misleading
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform either that or http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/nigerian-scammers.jpg
jurov: did you get the steg joke at last?
williamdunne: ben_vulpes: It was already intended, so I could hide some lego in the image
mircea_popescu has kicked ben_vulpes for treason and undermining the national economy
ben_vulpes: <williamdunne> mircea_popescu: jurov: Yeah I'll redraw the whole image and make it SVG << you know you don't *have* to do everything he says
mircea_popescu: davout hey, not my fault they know how to make a salmon and parmezan sammich.
jurov: if rucola's bitter, then it's stale
davout: mircea_popescu: "my salmon sandwiches at that cafe" <<< and i'm the hipster?!
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: jurov: Yeah I'll redraw the whole image and make it SVG
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126991 << myeah. except the "code red" is not what bitcointalk forum derps imagine it is. the code red is, has been for the entire history and likely will remain at least for a while simpler stuff like http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126993
mircea_popescu: "Civilization in the New World has very deep and ancient roots." yeah, and like any case of micropenis, we gotta go digging for it VEEERY carefully.
fluffypony: davout: when I was in the USA I wanted to buy some for a pasta sauce I was making, took me 25 minutes at Whole Foods to figure out that they call it "arugula"
jurov: or straight back to vectors. 3k then
mircea_popescu: how about going the full step and making it like 30k
jurov: don't feed the animals!
mircea_popescu: "nobody's in trouble" ? what are you, the kindergarten supervisor ?
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 00:00:19; pete_dushenski: Fast fwd to yesterday. I wasn't home yet from work, but my wife tells me local LE showed up and wanted to have a "chat". Asked if I or anone had ever ordered anything illicit in the mail. Said "nobody's in trouble, we're just following up on something that might be nothing"."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126849 << the incredible smarm of us coppers.
davout: from what i grasped, the issue is that glibc is pulling some random bits in, dynamically
jurov: yea, ben_vulpes lives there
asciilifeform: when it was, instead, 'who has longest sovereignty cock' - folks willingly died for the glory of $empire, yes
asciilifeform: and the criteria became 'which kingdom can make cheaper jeans'
asciilifeform: that's the thing, the 'increasingly sees as pointless' was after things turned 'rational'
funkenstein_: thanks, perhaps like the saturn rocket, there will come a day when nobody knows how to build one
jurov: if they did not act 'rationally' su would survive?
assbot: Logged on 24-11-2014 22:59:29; asciilifeform: without sovereignty, 'your' tractor - isn't yours. it belongs (along with your starfish) to the big boys.
decimation: but on the flip side you can print scrip and force your subjects to honor it
ben_vulpes: reminds me of apple maintaining os x for the intel arch
asciilifeform: what's the ROI on a tank? sub? nuke?
asciilifeform: the 'economically rational' thing to do, is, invariably, to suck cock of highest bidder.
asciilifeform: shortly after they began to act 'rationally' su was no more
asciilifeform: until they decided, again economically entirely rationally, that it costs far too much for no tangible gain
asciilifeform: and that cn, ru silicon sovereignty is a sham of the most laughable kind.
decimation: this is why it looked rational for ibm to pay to take this business off their hands
asciilifeform: dig down, and you will find that most of integrated circuit industry on planet3 ultimately lives and dies by the work of a handful of people.
decimation: yes, and most of the components require constant expert handholding & maintenance
asciilifeform: how many makers of the equipment ?
asciilifeform: (and do we consider refining the si to be part of fab process? my understanding is that it is usually done by separate firm, devoted to it. and how many are there of these ?)
decimation: you mean things like the euv light source, etc?
asciilifeform: one of the reasons why si fab costs what it does is that many of the necessary components are made in 2, 3, locations globally
decimation: there's no reason why leo need be much more expensive than that
decimation: yeah I think I linked herr walker's rant about how the nazis were only paying about $20k per v-2 launch
asciilifeform: (much of the cost of a launch is political, largely bakshish)
asciilifeform: no one has the faintest idea - how.
asciilifeform: rather like saying 'only solution would be space vehicles which cost 1000x less'
decimation: asciilifeform: the only solution is to make silicon fabs cost about 100-1000x less
asciilifeform: the nasties etc. flow from this
asciilifeform: just the 'palace economy' you inherently get, from a chip fab costing what it costs
asciilifeform: which is, the basic idea of integrated circuit, as we know it, is inherently centralizing
asciilifeform: there is a more fundamental problem here, which i think we discussed in at least one old thread
decimation: but I agree, it would be impossible to make clock-exact version of a silicon cpu without heavy support from the manufacturer
asciilifeform: for another, fpga and the genuine article can never be comparable on account of ruinous delays in the latter
asciilifeform: for one thing, what does it even mean to test one thing against another ?
decimation: if one had a working implementation of a silicon cpu (like msp430), wouldn't you be able to test the silicon version against an fpga simulator?
asciilifeform: hence why ru missile controllers are built using ancient soviet arch, yes, but the fab is winblows-controlled and the design turns from circuit to mask also in winblows
asciilifeform: in -every- case, the sc4mz0rz who are willing to use 'a little bit' of usg toolchain, overwhelmingly win on cost and speed
decimation: Maybe cn figures they can use us warez until they grow rich enough to toss a few coin toward this concept
asciilifeform: but this is the ultimate lemon market
asciilifeform: they do
asciilifeform: nor are their fabs (last i checked) toolchain-clean in terms of 100% usg-free.
asciilifeform: ru has indigenous cpu design tradition, and many of the folks who were at it prior to the great 'warez shift' of mid-'70s, when compatibility with western cpus was mandated from above - are still alive
asciilifeform: cn appears to have no traces whatsoever of any indigenous tradition of cpu design. and they understand what kind of investment would be involved in changing this, and behave perfectly logically from economic point of view, and say 'fuck that'
asciilifeform: even their 'loongson' mips, in latest versions, appears to use the official licensed mips corp. designs.
asciilifeform: cn produces -licensed- arm. this tells you what you need to know about their process.
asciilifeform: (no, cn, ru, etc. are not 'free world' in this sense, they run winblows toolchains and operate overwhelmingly on designs cribbed wholesale without any attempt whatsoever to fit in any head)
asciilifeform: as for the free world, it has -not one chip fab- to its name
asciilifeform: the only proper.
decimation: it's clear that man's ability to manufacture small transistors has outstripped his ability to properly design with them
asciilifeform: afaik there are -no- independent (as in, based on published documents) reimplementations of arm in production today.
asciilifeform: rather, it is that arm is implemented by 'licensees' who get an opaque turd
asciilifeform: that's not even the boojum here
decimation: and they seem to have no issue with pumping out more
asciilifeform: thing is, when it dies, arm will become the new x86.
decimation: I always figured the instructions were in a databook
asciilifeform: (one in '98, and another more recent one)
asciilifeform: phun phact: virtually everything we publicly know re: how an intel cpu inits comes from the great ami bios source leaks
asciilifeform: decimation: because there are not so many firms with access to intel initialization turds
asciilifeform: but with a mountain of closed turds to make the hardware go.
decimation: why do hardware vendors continually purchase the same american microtrends turds?
asciilifeform: thing is, they shipped it with gentoo
asciilifeform: several years ago, i bought the arm chipset chromebook and tried in vain, for ages, to install gentoo on it
asciilifeform: google gets nonpublic info from chip vendors and then pisses all over gpl.
decimation: interestingly it appears that google uses it for their chromebooks
asciilifeform: which is in the process of going extinct
decimation: reading through some of the 'hardware support' pages, it seems like getting to boot is rarely straightforward
asciilifeform: decimation: i'd consider doing this, but doubt there is any serious demand
decimation: asciilifeform: I wish there were a curated release of coreboot
asciilifeform: it no longer matters if the idiot bios your motherboard vendor supplied understands what a flash stick, etc. is.
asciilifeform: and boot directly to it. you then will have guaranteed function for all of your disks, other peripherals, etc. which worked under that linux kernel
asciilifeform: can even stuff your favourite kernel in the resulting cavity.
assbot: Logged on 10-05-2015 07:09:51; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform from their "download" page. http://www.coreboot.org/ click download
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-05-2015#1126936 << one of the nice things about having the source, regardless of how idiotic the dev process which produced it, is cutting away the crud. which you can do with coreboot, just as with bitcoind etc.
asciilifeform: the uniquely idiotic error message, 'not found', refers to glibc and its turds (libnss etc)
jurov: kakobrekla: pls remove the last 3 lines
jurov: /msg williamdunne yea got the stego data alright
Naphex: hehe, might not be the best source
assbot: God Realizes He Forgot To Put Souls In Humans - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1F70ZUC )
davout: however, mounting the ext2 partition works
davout: running the experimental armv5 binary doesn't work either, with same error, on the buildroot-2015.02 kernel
davout: as the little work would say: 'victory is mine!'
davout: asciilifeform: so i managed to get "busybox mkfs.ext2 /dev/sda1" working on the pogo by using buildroot-2015.05-rc1 instead of 2015.02, applying your patches (which do apply cleanly), apply my WIP-patch, and boot on that
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: chillum was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 weeks, 1 day, 16 hours, 15 minutes, and 10 seconds ago: <Chillum> I have never understood how a 1 paragraph post that links to a full article somehow makes it to the top of google searches. They are adding basically nothing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the fuck does this mean << what it looked like: she was leaving town, he tried to get in the way
ben_vulpes: p and and and ul and div and everything are just so floppy all of the time and used in such wildly divergent ways
ben_vulpes: dude html is the worst
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/1b9759c651468fb1d3a4b462224ec2c0/tumblr_mwyojcsRmM1scedu9o1_500.jpg
mircea_popescu: go to all that trouble to introduce git hooks to sign, eschew pgp. i wouldn't use them to put a fire out.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "Gerrit workflow - Gerrit interprets each Git commit as an individual change. Changes are autobuilt by Jenkins, and can be reviewed by developers. Once a change has gotten a positive review and has no build issues, it is applied to the master branch. Thus, no developer directly pushes to master."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the fuck does this mean, stealing his gurl's ticket
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-05-2015#1120886 < the positive void coefficient design was a bad move, and another was the fact that the containment was essentially a wooden shed
decimation: asciilifeform: why would they arrest over subway ticket? pay fine and move on? Must be complicated with the 'domestic'
ascii_modem: re: bios: i'm rather surprised that mircea_popescu doesn't demand 'coreboot' (aka linuxbios) on his boxes
mod6: usually it's just hobo's drunk asf going on at high volume about aliens or jesus. but every now and then, a good fight breaks out.
mod6: yeah, then that something different entierly i'd guess as far as statutes, etc.
mod6: not sure. you'd think the choad would have just bought a ticket of his own. or if caught without a ticket, kept his mouth shut and paid a fine.
ascii_modem: (is the correct engl. legalism for this kind of thing still 'a domestic' if the drama is in a public place?)
mod6: asciilifeform: here's today's update from the v0.5.3.1+Orphanage+Thermonuke test: http://dpaste.com/3Q81JA6.txt