williamdunne: For the coast guard to stop drug smugglers
williamdunne: Well, owns the company doing it
pete_dushenski: williamdunne i really have nfi what the first trade was. if you say it's weed, we'll go with that, but that doesn't mean that first=best
williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Trade then
pete_dushenski: williamdunne the first transaction was knowledge, no ?
pete_dushenski: williamdunne http://trilema.com/2013/what-the-drug-trade-is-how-the-drug-trade-works-and-why-silk-road-didnt-work-and-didnt-matter/
williamdunne: pete_dushenski: Wasn't the first transaction ever completed on the internet the purchase of weed?
pete_dushenski: williamdunne except... the internet sucks for drugs. mp has an ancient essay on the matter.
decimation: asciilifeform: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9561764 < lol you butthurt the mr. spam mod
williamdunne: Anything outside of that is just abusing the tech
williamdunne: I'm pretty sure the internet was invented for two purposes, selling drugs and pretending to know stuff you don't
pete_dushenski: decimation who's the hboeck guy again ?
mxtm: i dunno either
decimation: https://blog.hboeck.de/archives/872-About-the-supposed-factoring-of-a-4096-bit-RSA-key.html#comments < heh the hboeck guy admits he doesn't really know of which he speaks
decimation: the pacific moderates
decimation: I don't think it ever gets too hot there?
pete_dushenski: decimation it's quite the place. not quite summer here yet tho. still only 16-18C during the day.
decimation: yeah I've been through there, I wouldn't mind going back
pete_dushenski: and a big pacific howdy from the coast !
ben_vulpes: following the key drama?
williamdunne: >Forget MPEX. The best/most reliable stock exchange is, by far, BTCT.CO.
DreadKnight: anyway, I partnered up with a coder this year, will see how that goes in the long run
ben_vulpes: just because she doesn't care about her boyfriend around that other guy doesn't mean diddly when it comes to your desire to get up her skirt
DreadKnight: trinque, the ad crap is my last option
DreadKnight: ben_vulpes, a return is not always needed, some people do things for passion or practice; there are quite a few nice free open source games out there and software, most likely the browser you are making is done half by unpaid contributors
trinque: DreadKnight: doing the ad-supported thing is a loss leader at best; you have to be able to burn money until your audience is large enough to merit being paid for the # of eyeballs
ben_vulpes: people working for a link or publicity need to have some sort of assurance that their time so spent is going to yield a return.
ben_vulpes: DreadKnight: every single one of those companies pays their employees.
decimation: I thought ninjashogun was one of the h-n mods?
trinque: decimation: got there quick too
ben_vulpes: DreadKnight: i thought the thing was supposed to make money?
DreadKnight: the project itself is free, so this stuff is allowed provided crediting is done
decimation: there are clearly people on hacker news who are enemies of #b-a
DreadKnight: the other day found out that a cg animation series done in blender by just one dude used quite a few of the creatures from my project :)
DreadKnight: well, there are quite a few reasons, crediting (name/link), experience, the joy of contributing to something bigger just to name a few
DreadKnight: we have a saying around, going something like "you drawn like the gypsy near the shore", meaning overall that you failed in the last few steps
DreadKnight: the project gets small contributions constantly, but when it comes to bigger stuff, people tend to vanish at about 90% progress xD
DreadKnight: the republic of Venice?
DreadKnight: ben_vulpes, didn't coded the gameplay, it's a bit above my skill level; anyway, even if I did 100% of the thing, would still need funding
ben_vulpes: we rearranged the deck chairs last week, place feels almost like humans and not nerds
trinque: ben_vulpes: oh don't misunderstand, I am a big fan of the 5-way lumbar support
mircea_popescu: bitrated.com/zmanian/ << there's even a chump wot and everything
mircea_popescu: i'm looking forward to all the gavin lectures about the perils of larger blocksizes. also at stanford.
DreadKnight: regarding the game, polishing documentation and preparing some a crowd funding
DreadKnight: usually too lazy to do the whole thing manually
ben_vulpes: there ya go
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2015/full-disclosure-4096-rsa-key-in-the-strongset-factored/#comment-114226 "Because Phuctor shows me an Internal Server Error when I try to test a key."
ben_vulpes: so is qntra not writing up the gpbacle?
jurov: not implying anything, only found the commnt lulzy
jurov: jus' looking on code path that produces the "invalid subkey binding" message, found this:
ben_vulpes: lol yeah that's indeed the conclusion i came to
ben_vulpes: i'm getting the impression with gentoo that i should copy the dieharder source into mydiehardfork overlay and then emerge mydiehard fork - how wrong is this?
trinque: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=549754 << specific incantation that breaks the glibc headers
ben_vulpes: DreadKnight: how's the game coming?
mircea_popescu: other than because some she-geeks are cute and people try to hit on them with "hy babyy i r maek distro" ?
mircea_popescu: (the kidnapping 13 yo bride part)
mircea_popescu: just the way that goes.
alphonse23_: sure. it just a shame. hacker news was a real gem back in the day. I'm sure it's inevitable, as things become more mainstream, they get too political, and less honest. Now I have to go out a find good honest news from somewhere underground.
assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 15:59:46; adlai: jurov: yes, at least two keys need to have a primer in common. had phuctor run over the keys in reverse order, it would've found the other chump first
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1134618 << seeing how the factors so far have been 3, 7 and 11... i imagine all the truely bad keys will be in one of those (possibly most/all of those) groups
mircea_popescu: alphonse23_ an ad-interim solution is of course variety. there's qntra doing bitcoin news. there's 8chan doing all sorts of things.
mircea_popescu: alphonse23_ once gossipd is done, i guess there.
joshbuddy: hiya, just hanging out after reading the hilarious rsa key blog post by .. umm you
alphonse23_: mircea_popescu: but to do it so openly, how does that not hurt them.
mircea_popescu: davout yes, had you done it afore the bet i guess.
davout: if i then submit a key whose factors are 3 and 5
davout: mircea_popescu: well, if i craft a key whose factors are 1 and 3, theoretically it's a valid gpg key
mircea_popescu: davout then i suppose it's not broken yet ?
trinque: it's plainly visible looking at the header itself
davout: that's the easy part i think "anything recognized as such by asset's favorite gnupg version"
mircea_popescu: alphonse23_ anyway, the mistake here is for members of the public naive enough to imagine conde nast / ycombinator / etc sites represent anything but the alt-reality their owners have a financial interest in.
davout: the bet was misworded from the beginning, had someone intentionally created a set of shitty keys and fed the to the phuctor, it would resolve as yes
alphonse23_: but this, the mod manipulating titles -- for whatever reason. There's ton of down voting too.
alphonse23_: HN has changed a lot in the pass few months
mircea_popescu: graham, altman &co are butthurt because we regularly mock their "venture capitalism" ? i dunno
davout: re the bitbet, this guy had it: "So I can still drop bad keys on purpose? Or key had to be added before announcing this bet?"
alphonse23_: but from the article it was reported here.
alphonse23_: mostly curious why HN would care to hide the story?
alphonse23_: I came because of the 4096-rsa article
mircea_popescu: the wicked may never rest.
asciilifeform: so we can put the 'cosmic rays' folks to rest.
asciilifeform: omfg the idiocy.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1134581 << amusingly enough, that 0.02 is obviously the house. nobody took the opposing side.
mircea_popescu: can start there lawls.
gribble: Interacting with fiat institutions, a guide on Trilema - A blog by Mircea ...: <http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/>; The SEC asked this Romanian Bitcoin CEO for private data to probe ...: <https://ihb.io/2014-03-20/news/sec-asked-romanian-bitcoin-ceo-private-data-response-4087>; MPEx owner in danger of being extradited to US to face charges ...: (1 more message)
assbot: Logged on 17-05-2015 20:24:41; asciilifeform: it will update, because - evidently - there is no mechanism whereby the update would be rejected.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1135377 < if this were the case i should also be able to replace your key with mine. doesn't seem that works tho
trinque: tragedy of the commons; everyone fucks glibc and no one pays her medical bills
mircea_popescu: prx log's in the topic.
mircea_popescu: there is theoretical support, but in practice the lists seem dead and i have nfi who can even undertake that beast of a task
mircea_popescu: for the libnss debacle.
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-05-2015#1134624 <<< i'll defer to BingoBoingo for this story, i sorta grasp the situation but not really enough to do a story justice
trinque: and I will, if only as an exercise in whether it's actually possible to get something fixed in glibc
trinque: guy sends me to go bother whoever can fix glibc
mircea_popescu: the instructor said don't touch anything. A crew member responded by saying it doesn't matter none of it works anyway, you can touch what you want.
trinque: "I assume they are produced by network errors, harddisk failures or software bugs. It may also be that someone just created them in some experiment."
mircea_popescu: Zoe Quinn is the role model, dumbass made a "game" that wouldn't have passed muster in the early sierra adventure games
asciilifeform: (distributed not in the 'faster' sense - it cannot be - but the 'remove single juicy target' sense)
asciilifeform: their factor-counterparts, i do not yet know
mircea_popescu: trinque within the hour. not so terribru.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the official story seems to be that keys got accidentally.
asciilifeform: (nothing, afaik, has been signed publicly with them)
trinque: I'm about as amazed with how rapidly the various "news" sites can respond to this
asciilifeform: after folks start going 'snore, it's just another gnu dev with b0rk3d key'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, downside of sleeping in is I missed a timely annoucement of keys shattering. On the plus side Am I reading it right, that the pattern seems to be various sorts of strongset people have these weak keys, almost exclusively?
mircea_popescu: "We are at war, with a new kind of enemy. The terrorists have infiltrated every nation on our planet." tsk tsk now how would will mcneilly know this.
mircea_popescu: i must be doing something wrong then
asciilifeform: it will update, because - evidently - there is no mechanism whereby the update would be rejected.
asciilifeform: the way you do it is 1) take existing 2) feed in place of old
asciilifeform: the entire blob, notice, as per rfc2440/4880, is not in any way hashed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this one's another 'invalid subkey...'
trinque: there are older articles with fewer points above
mircea_popescu: you should check to make sure yo udon't use the same prime TWICE
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://trilema.com/2015/i-think-you-drastically-overestimate-the-military-importance-of-nuclear-weapons/#comment-114220 << republished it jic
asciilifeform: the sheer mental breakage required to waste one's time so.
mircea_popescu: how the system cant pass tests to show it couldve launched ha!
trinque: ye gods the autism
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: going by the style, it's our old phriend, mr spam
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, i know of no better proof that the "atomic weapons not actually militarily useful" than this sort of perennial wank.
mircea_popescu: trinque is this like the only bit of c code deployed without stdint ? i wonder if he had a reason
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: no idea how genuine the text, but riotously funny
asciilifeform: trinque: consider contacting the maintainers
mircea_popescu: so do they actually work ?
asciilifeform: another SWS JR sitting right beside me.'
asciilifeform: personnel in the room; in the video you can see a SWS JR about 3 feet in front of me talking to
asciilifeform: at the screen or used common sense, would've seen I was recording. There were other SWS
asciilifeform: book word for word. I held the phone still, about a foot in front of my face and anyone who looked
asciilifeform: allowed. I sat down; took my Samsung Galaxy SII (white) out of my pocket, and recorded the entire
asciilifeform: book out then filmed it? No. What I did was walk into a room were no recording devices are
asciilifeform: have gotten a copy of every single chapter on to my phone? A hidden camera? No. Smuggled the
asciilifeform: on the access list, and no personnel electronics are allowed. I was on the access list but how could I
asciilifeform: compartment used to control the launch of the nuclear missiles. It can only be accessed by people
asciilifeform: their heads and wondering how I'm writing this on my personnel laptop and referencing a book,
asciilifeform: strategic weapon system. I'm sure all the Strategic Weapon System (SWS) personnel are scratching
asciilifeform: 'This contains references to CB8890: The instructions for the safety and security of the Trident II D5
mircea_popescu: for all you know this is the magic packet required to X.
mircea_popescu: there's a long tradition of "must fail to pass" bullshit seen in the wild, and allegedly not originated by nsa
asciilifeform: actually the necessary diddle would be small:
mircea_popescu: but if we do see it, im definitely publishing the story.
mircea_popescu: anyway, im not entirely sure we might ever see the diddled gpg that goes with this didlded key to produce anything interesting
asciilifeform: is the fart cloud.
asciilifeform: the buggers' only defence
asciilifeform: then we have our corpse.
mircea_popescu: i meant the REAL victim.
asciilifeform: the choice of victim is very telling
davout: the real thing here would be to actually find a GPG implementation that does not run the check that leads normal ones to simply discard this key
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tbh i find the "broken in transit" explanation offered by the back to sleep camp particularly ridiculous.
asciilifeform: but if we say 'use a tool' then 'pgpdump'.
asciilifeform: much as they might like to.
asciilifeform: delan: imagine, the entire 'international community' and obama himself can't stop you from running euclid.
asciilifeform: delan: the good news is, that it remains possible to do arithmetic whether or not anyone grants permission. go and run test on your own
mircea_popescu: delan myeah. one shouldn't have to hope on this score, but then again here we are.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> most she-haters i know are womenz. << girl last night pointed out that all of her worst clients (she's a physical therapist, deals with highly athletic folks coming to terms with their now-reduced performance envelopes) are women
mircea_popescu: funny how targetted them folks are.
trinque: ok I fixed the dieharder build on gentoo
mircea_popescu: you know that's to this day one of the most popular articles ? i dunno what's with them ppls.
mircea_popescu: half the "literate" population can't even read trilema because "it's too hard" and words hurt their brain
mircea_popescu: trinque only terrorists would want to test their rngs.
asciilifeform: yesterday - if they were baked a month ago
asciilifeform: eh howthefuck would i know. but why not.
asciilifeform: perhaps the first batch of those cable boxes.
mircea_popescu: enough to push the estimate up 5 points.
mircea_popescu: so in also newsworthy : between yesterday and today there has been a shitton of hashpower added
mircea_popescu: whether that proves the contrary, or for that matter whether the contrary needs any proof... exercise for reader.
mircea_popescu: then it... didn't work.
mircea_popescu: was like "we have consensus and therefore will delete your reddit thread proving the contrary. because this will totally work, you being some derps who depend on the graham lulzatron"
asciilifeform: iirc there's a full copy of it on mircea_popescu's www
asciilifeform: because the 'hand of smiting' was visible
asciilifeform: i recommend that someone who cares, snapshot the thing before it vanishes entirely
asciilifeform: why not one of the guests is speaking, l0l
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the man has a good point.
decimation: indeed. I'm off on a home improvement project, good luck with the ramblig mob that's gonna come by
mircea_popescu: and we'll have a pretty decent picture once phuctor's done walking the set, which looks like a coupla months
mircea_popescu: decimation anyway, we'll know more / anything of actual substance once the guy himself answers.
trinque: and probably the portage tree itself
decimation: well, I guess if you want your 'roster of people' to be a combination of legal record and bathroom graffiti, they got you covered
trinque: this underscores the need to archive /usr/portage/distfiles
trinque: ben_vulpes: you can always build a specific version provided the ebuild is still available in portage by emerge =category-name/thing-0.1.2
ben_vulpes: trinque: how does one go about walking the history of portage?
mircea_popescu: i mean, if the claims is accurate, what's to keep me from making anyone's sks profile 1 gb long ?
mircea_popescu: decimation doesn't that stance open them to incredible ddos ?
asciilifeform: l0l it cuts the nicks
decimation: apparently because of their political stance (all gpg keys must be public and stored for all time)
mircea_popescu: more on point, would you expect they STORE bad keys ?
decimation: doesn't the sks server check before shitting public key?
mircea_popescu: it seems tempting, tho there are sticking points. but in any case, as phuctor progresses we'll get a better idea.
decimation: cause I thought there was a checksum
decimation: asciilifeform: so did the sks server at one point accept anvin's key and then later bitrotted it?
asciilifeform: ty mircea_popescu. that's the one.
mircea_popescu: you can't fool mother nature. nevertheless, it is more than happy to sell you the tools by which to fool yourself.
asciilifeform: the one with rs232 link
asciilifeform: just as i said then
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ben_vulpes a fine example of the perils of "whitening".
mircea_popescu: davout yes but honestly i'd rather let it work some more first.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it'll be especially puzzling because you won't immediately know why it fails, given as you debiased the bits
mats: asciilifeform: this in particular wasn't new to me but nonetheless i shared
mircea_popescu: davout tis on the list of things to do, but it is a long list
davout: asciilifeform mircea_popescu is the same 'skipped' behaviour observed when importing the second broken key?
ben_vulpes: so if the device randomly cooks up a control sequence that will get ripped out?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you won't see certain bytes in the output
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 'caltrop' << how does the tossing of control bits affect output?
ben_vulpes: * BingoBoingo though doing an honest assessment finds a person who can reasonably keep up in a lot of #b-a convos but who can't program for shit. And honestly... training to trade punches seems much easier than learning to program on any level approaching asciilifeform, ben_vulpes, and mod6. << you could catch up to me in rather short order
asciilifeform: 'there is never kitchen with single cockroach'
asciilifeform: incidentally, anybody want to take the time to walk the sks set and check for 'skipped...' ?
mircea_popescu: "The results I worried about, millions of children running Windows on the OLPC, have not occurred. Instead we see millions of children running Windows on the Intel Classmate."
asciilifeform: mats: jumping into the middle of an instruction is as old as time
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: feel free to dig. i can't be bothered.
mircea_popescu: strange, our fortress has a moat, provided free of charge by "the enemy"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol dude's story is that he's replicated the results of phuctor since late march ?
asciilifeform: '04-06-2014 00:08:26 <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.'
assbot: Logged on 04-06-2014 00:08:26; asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
asciilifeform: 'Here's what's going on: There are a number of keys on the keyservers that are faulty copies of real keys - they share most of the values, but have some errors. I don't exactly know why that is happening, but I assume it's because of network transmission errors or server crashes during transmissions. These keys don't really do any harm. ...'
asciilifeform: afaik they don't check