justJanne: The largest issue is that many people discussed with me, each having different opinions.
mircea_popescu: most of the discussion flows as "comonly held belief 1" "why" "because 2" "why" "because 3" why" "because 1.1" etc
chetty: I havent read the whole log but I am curious, is anyone trying to convince, or just stating facts?
mircea_popescu: the problem isn't that we're going "off topic", as there isn't a topic. the problem is that you very badly suck at most verbal and cognitive tasks. but hopefully we've run the gamut by now.
justJanne: Anyway, why are we still arguing? I said I have no issue with you trying to build your state system, I just don't believe it will last, and you guys spending 14h trying to convince me the system I like most is shit.
mircea_popescu: speaking of the broke ass pki, http://blog.trendmicro.com/trendlabs-security-intelligence/a-look-at-the-gnutls-x-509-verification-code-flaw/
williamdunne: A university dedicate to not sharing information, not very socialist of them
justJanne: As access to the intranet is bound through X.509 to a user account
justJanne: They have.
williamdunne: setup a proxy to the intranet
justJanne: You can get it if you are in their intranet, though.
mircea_popescu: can you link the course ?
justJanne: Theoretical statistics.
mircea_popescu: the difference being that this isn't what you think,
justJanne: Median is the middle person.
mircea_popescu: which is EXACTLY what the problem is.
mircea_popescu: in any case the poor girls without the bits can't grow them back up, so in order for everyone to have equal chances at an orgasm, off with your clit!
williamdunne: Socialism to me does seem a lot like the "no kid left behind" school bullshit that appeals to the lowest common denominator and lowers the median
mircea_popescu: maybe you should try the mutilation thing.
mircea_popescu: how are these migrants any worse than you ?
davout: well, adoption is on the rise, so what can i say
justJanne: So no, it's not a German issue. We still try to do our best to fix the mistakes someone else did.
justJanne: People, immigrants, from African countries, who got mutilated and then moved here
mircea_popescu: and you know this the same way it was 0, right ?
mircea_popescu: williamdunne shut up they're fixing it.
mircea_popescu: damn i like the nordic model more and more
justJanne: And we pay them free healthcare to fix it.
justJanne: Almost no immigration since then.
justJanne: You don't get it without a degree and a guarantee for a job, and the circumcised people rarely have the qualifications anyway
mircea_popescu: how's the female circumcision factor ?
justJanne: 19% of the population are foreigners and migrants
justJanne: They are already here.
mircea_popescu: either way
mircea_popescu: or to a point where the muslims can just come in and rape you stupid lot into shape.,
williamdunne: Yes, plenty of children to pay for their communist parents
justJanne: Automatically shrinking the population to a point where it is sustainable.
mircea_popescu: clearly the system works and is sustainable.
justJanne: All the Nordics have 1.4, too
justJanne: So far below the replacement rate of 2.25
trinque: there should be a lot less citizens.
justJanne: (Yes, the laws in Germany apply to all "people", not just citizens)
justJanne: Nah thanks, don't wanna go into a country where anyone can be declared terrorist and stripped of their rights
justJanne: This summer? I'll work on several open source projects, like the IRC client I use right now.
mircea_popescu: aha. well the thing is, the books you read are kinda deliberately written so as to make you think you're in the best possible place.
justJanne: I haven't travelled outside EU yet. Never had the money to do so.
mircea_popescu: justJanne how much have you travelled ? outside of the eu i mean
justJanne: mircea_popescu: the Nordics still pay about the same taxes as the US, but you get free healthcare, free college, welfare, and an almost unregulated market.
mircea_popescu: anyway, denmark is probably the best example of usistan. "The worlds largest public sector (30% of the entire workforce on a full-time basis) is financed by the world's highest taxes."
justJanne: that's an old article then.
punkman: " Funds cannot move freely within the system. They can move from a bank account (or cash) to a Geldkarte. From there, they can only be moved to a merchant's card and from the merchant's card, they can only go to the merchant's bank account."
williamdunne: Nevermind, I'll ignore the paper that is derpy
mircea_popescu: it will never work. the only reason its not being raped wide open is because atm nobody gives a shit about swine country.
punkman: GeldKarte > "This system is protected against double-spending by not allowing the user to read the keys from their smart card."
punkman: justJanne: I mean, a startup in my city sells FPGA clusters that can be used for that (or for crypto mining), and the NSA bought 256 clusters, each should be enough to break AES256 in 2 weeks. << lolwut
mircea_popescu: then necessarily i can send to both. so i do. what now.
mircea_popescu: if i can send money to either a or b
justJanne: Your card stores a list of cryptographically signed money from the sender.
justJanne: You have at the beginning 0 money.
mircea_popescu: what happens in the following scenario :
justJanne: Person C now goes online and can spend the money.
justJanne: All this while they are completely offline.
trinque: the banks are totally decentralized because they've got various sub-departments of some huge central authority
mircea_popescu: you don't know but it's the same ?
justJanne: I'm currently talking about northern Germany, as I don't know the internals of Denmark, it's the same, though.
mircea_popescu: so what is "Danmarks Nationalbank" then ?
justJanne: It's the same as minimum and smallest, two completely different definitions.
justJanne: The banks aren't either fully centralized, nor fully decentralized. Anyone can just open a bank, the question is if other banks will accept money from your customers as payment, as they don't know if they can trust your cryptographic signature.
mircea_popescu: but in graph theory, decentralized is a term of art.
justJanne: I mean, a startup in my city sells FPGA clusters that can be used for that (or for crypto mining), and the NSA bought 256 clusters, each should be enough to break AES256 in 2 weeks.
williamdunne: I've been trying to break that habit, think I'm about there
mircea_popescu: can't shoot the retards amirite.
williamdunne: From the frequency of messages don't think she even read the GPG contracts etc, let alone historical logs
mircea_popescu: 545. nevertheless a record i think ?
mircea_popescu: clever chick with a head fulla stupid meets #b-a. anyone care to bet on the linecount total ?
trinque: how about less this bullshit and more on the definition of centralized vs decentralized
justJanne: Is because they store the money as a cryptographically signed transaction history on the card.
williamdunne: Just another meta layer
williamdunne: I know in the UK it works with central bank reserve/payment accounts
williamdunne: justJanne: How is current issuance handled then? Banks trusted to issue their authorised balance?
trinque: not how many buildings they have
justJanne: I can send money to another merchant without it ever touching a bank
justJanne: Denmark has no digital central bank — the money flows from node to node.
BingoBoingo: It prolly won't bee too long before they bring back 100,000 bills with the Woodrow Wilson and everything
williamdunne: Thats just the derpery of governments
mircea_popescu: the idea that i'd allow a third party to look into my accounts... what the fuck is this, the future ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> which iirc don't even exist in the us. << 100's still exist here
justJanne: mircea_popescu: in Denmark, almost all transfers are digital anyway. As the official system is cheaper, faster, and easier than bitcoin even.
williamdunne: Are they official mintage or..?
mircea_popescu: which iirc don't even exist in the us.
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, they pay like 10% less for 20 dollar bills. only want 100s.
mircea_popescu: the latter recognises the sovereignty of the entity it secedes from. the former does not.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne quick : what's the difference between "Declaration of sovereignty" and "Declaration of independence" ?
justJanne: In other news,
mircea_popescu: if there isn't, a well. you're lucky enough to have come in early.
mircea_popescu: if there's still a germany in 30 years, it may see how itshould behave and copy us, yes.
mircea_popescu: justJanne the reason it is hard to argue is because the list of places where your ideas fail is about eighteen entries long by now, and you're not directly interested in examining the holes and fixing your head, but instead would prefer us to somehow accept the nonsense.
williamdunne: davout: she's burning mana for the energy regen spell
justJanne: It's hard to argue with you when you ask the same questions over and over again, and just goalpost all he time
mircea_popescu: might as well have the same argument about believing in christ and move to 1555 to be a nun.
mircea_popescu: "ima call anyone that doesn't promote socialism a dictator and then say that not being socialist makes dictators"
mircea_popescu: what are you, going through the non sequitur book in order ?
justJanne: All politicians who said the opposite ended up as dictators.
mircea_popescu: the only realistic thing is to eat raw meat and dress in dead children.
justJanne: It is the only basis.
williamdunne: Apparently moving IRC servers and tos are equivalent to the violent rule of gov
trinque: the fuck whatsapp is a government now
justJanne: And people still stayed there.
justJanne: They introduced a "tax"
justJanne: Or leave them behind.
mircea_popescu: government wants to change the rules, IT HAS TO MOVE.
mircea_popescu: whoever changes the deal moves.
justJanne: Moving from Freenode isn't easy either.
justJanne: Same with countries. If the deal changes, you can move.
williamdunne: If the deal changes..
williamdunne: And if they do I will move
mircea_popescu: looky : there are no implicit deals. ever.
justJanne: Please try to find another one.
justJanne: And still you are subject to them.
williamdunne: I drive onto a tollroad, pay them for that
mircea_popescu: there.is.no.such.thing.as."implicit".deals.
williamdunne: I click "I agree to the ToS"
justJanne: There are implicit deals.
williamdunne: No, they aren't
williamdunne: justJanne: Right, this is the point. We didn't choose for Gov to build roads and would pay tolls if owned by private companies
mircea_popescu: listen, is merkel paying you for using the public space ?
williamdunne: Ok, well state enforced monopoly doesn't justify theft, no more than my ejaculate justifies rape
williamdunne: If private companies can't build roads, they shouldn't exist
williamdunne: "Who will build the roads!11"
mircea_popescu: are you commiting theft when those volunteer firemen come put your hair out ?
justJanne: As you stated before you aren't paying for them.
mircea_popescu: which is what the deal is.
mircea_popescu: but anyway : i, personally, pay no taxes. agents i own pay taxes in the jurisdictions i've incorporated them in, as you'd expect.
williamdunne: Kinda explains the no-laws thing
williamdunne: And then GPG contracts
mircea_popescu: justJanne http://trilema.com/2014/interacting-with-fiat-institutions-a-guide/ < start there.
williamdunne: He pays taxes to the most serene republic IIRC
justJanne: Or do you support the parliament that, according to you, never should make new laws?
williamdunne: Public in other words
mircea_popescu: the majority can make sense or get lost.
justJanne: Unless the majority is for a law.
mircea_popescu: no parliament has the authority to make new law. ever.
mircea_popescu: im not going for these ARM bankruptcy mortgage deals.
justJanne: mircea_popescu: not really — most of the laws are adapting existing situations.
mircea_popescu: either come up with a contract and stick to it, or go home.
mircea_popescu: justJanne that there is an apparent need for new laws already invalidates the entire proposition of having a state in the first place.
williamdunne: justJanne: Ignoring is the right action
williamdunne: The problem is the UK is mostly shit, as we have discussed. And the shit areas would be far more likely to vote Communist
justJanne: And more democratic, cause the government won't risk ignoring the 7% people who voted liberals, nor the 7% who voted communist, as if they'd ignore them, those parties would just start a fight in Parliament.
mircea_popescu: that's how the shoe incidents happen
mircea_popescu: she has a point there.
justJanne: At least parliament debates are fun with all of them at once.
justJanne: At the same time.
williamdunne: And I like the current availability of toilet paper
williamdunne: justJanne: It could probably work its way in there either way, IoM for example is not EU dependent
williamdunne: I could imagine a fair amount moving there
williamdunne: justJanne: Yes, I agree if it leaves the EU
justJanne: The tax haven will move to Romania, or Liechtenstein.
mircea_popescu: there is NEVER going to be a way for the bs taxation of socialists to be enforced. ever.
williamdunne: Currently if you set up a financial company in the EU, the standard procedure is London
justJanne: Outside of London, the average waiting time for an ambulance is 4 hours.
mircea_popescu: only matters because it's a relative tax heaven from the patently insane french (and german) communists.
williamdunne: justJanne: Rest of the UK... not so much
mircea_popescu: uk as an independent state is about as ludicrous today as the kingdom of scotland was in 1715
williamdunne: "Returning to Edinburgh, the Company of Scotland for Trading to Africa raised £400,000 sterling in a few weeks (equivalent to roughly £46 million today),[b] with investments from every level of society, and totaling about a fifth of the wealth of Scotland.[7][8] It was, for Scotland, a massive amount of capital.[9]"
justJanne: As their economy right now is "European companies open an Ltd in London"
justJanne: It would finally kill their economy
mircea_popescu: top keks in there.
mircea_popescu: btw, you familiar with the hilarious history of the scottish new world settlement thing ?
williamdunne: I would imagine that they'd be moved to Plymouth or Bristol or summin
mircea_popescu: just pay the dizzy sluts more :D
mircea_popescu: and they're in glasgow.
mircea_popescu: well, it can't. because the one remaining hanging nail on the historical uk is the coupla nuke subs the us allows them to keep
williamdunne: Remove one of the parasites
williamdunne: I hoped they would do it
williamdunne: Precisely, I've been ranting far too often recently about how London should tell the rest of the UK to fuck off
mircea_popescu: which was one of the lulziest things i saw that year.
mircea_popescu: yeah they do, lmao, which is outright ridiculous. all good things are supposed to flow TO the city, not from it.
williamdunne: rather than you
williamdunne: Probably, then again we are largely responsible for modern socialism, so what do you expect?
mircea_popescu: germany's pretty much recovered, the uk will never recover.
williamdunne: Okay I see what you mean, but the UK needs it less
mircea_popescu: why do you think the empire's been going to shit for a century ?
mircea_popescu: from their pov it's backwards.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Well yes, thats what I'm talking about but the reverse
williamdunne: But this is their own fault
williamdunne: Well, various African shitholes don't help themselves and won't allow foreigners to open accounts
mircea_popescu: you can't sell in randomistan anymore than randomistan can sell in the uk.
mircea_popescu: or, alternatively, you discontinue support for israel and so the saudis no longer have what to fear so they dump your alliance.
williamdunne: If I want to start a business in the UK, I can pretty easily sell my product wherever the fuck I want. Banks are willing to work with me, that will be fine. If I was from random-istan not so much
mircea_popescu: but then putin turns around, alligns with china economically in exchange for support for his "regions of eurasia" political model
williamdunne: Sure, but I don't think it's a very controversial idea that various rules such as the AML set put entire regions of people at a disadvantage
mircea_popescu: but yes, the set of rules that control the game are different for hookers and bluffers. for hookers, the rules that control are "A > K > Q" etc.
mircea_popescu: how would that work ? does being rich change thermodynamics or something ?
williamdunne: In this case its more like the bluffer having to play with a different set of superiority rules
mircea_popescu: why should this matter ? play the fucking hand. you adjust to fit it, not the other way around.
mircea_popescu: because it's not what they expected / wish to play / etc.
mircea_popescu: now, if one's afore-decided they will be bluffing, a) they won't make very good poker players and b) any hand they get can "put them at a disadvantage".