mircea_popescu: cat trilema-20may2015.txt | grep -c "more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations"
mircea_popescu: davout 138.More factored RSA keys, and assorted other considerations (trilema.com)3 points by davout 2 hours ago | discuss << it's greyed out, so i guess it got neg'd somehow.
mircea_popescu: it's the equivalent of a tractor that just plowed through virgin land. all those delicious worms!
asciilifeform: then it'd be a mega-hit.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all. << nothing specific yet. although the charts are interesting. Process Switches hit 4k before going to zero.
davout: mircea_popescu: on osx you can either build GPG, or use this macgpg stuff, i use the former, so can't really help here
asciilifeform: other habitual mac users ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is a pgp for mac thing yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i suspect that the 'apple product safety' thing is a target. that is, folks filing bug reports 'confidentially'
davout: aaand the HN story is at... wait for it... 3 points
mircea_popescu: we'll get jack with the linux versions
mircea_popescu: and the apple one
mircea_popescu: THATs what needs to be tested. pgpwin and what else was there ?
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ? << correct.
asciilifeform: betcha some of the magickeys show a legit evil32.com
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw. << thx!
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 12:54:33; asciilifeform: until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones
davout: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1140245 <<< the correct way to perform such an attack would be to also generate a short keyid collision
asciilifeform: mod6: and am i correct in my reading that thermonuke ver. never died ?
mircea_popescu: any idea what caused the oom ? if anything identifiable at all.
mircea_popescu: mod6 nice work on the perf tests btw.
kakobrekla: nah, taking in account the latest development, cosmic ray can alter all grades from a single student.
asciilifeform: (picture the stereotypical schoolboy who logs in to change his marks. does he change his and chums' alone? only if idiot)
asciilifeform: and how many of the data points are smokescreen ?
asciilifeform: and the various 'pirate party' folks, perhaps, will take some pleasure in seeing their names in this list.
asciilifeform: other observations - some of the items on the target list are of obvious diddlomatic interest; others are probably humint targets - some of them, rather intriguing, e.g., mr robert j hansen of http://sixdemonbag.org/bio.xhtml
kakobrekla: are you going to automate the display of results or will it be a full time job?
asciilifeform: i presently suspect that there are versions of sks (and/or other pgptronics) which will stupidly display a legit fp for the magical keys.
asciilifeform: until i saw the auto-updater crud, my most parsimonious hypothesis re: the matter treated in last section of mircea_popescu's article was that the buggers built a straight chumpmagnet, where lusers would search sks for email addr. of someone or other, and end up with latest key (try it) displayed being one of the 'magic' ones
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: postscript suffers from precisely same problems as pdf (which is, after all, a minor variation on the former)
Apocalyptic: (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form) // except postscript maybe
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: item in question treated rsa weakening from the use of peculiarly large exponents.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i keep various cheap gadgets around that will eat pdfs. you can get chinese printer that will, etc. (why? well, mathematical material is not likely to exist in any other form)
davout: but these are keys that simply -declare- this as an UID right?
mircea_popescu underscores the ~probably~. it is not a certainly. not yet at least. moar uranium has to be mined first.
kakobrekla: logs mostly but other stuff that runs on same box is included
scoopbot_revived: More factored RSA keys, and assorted other considerations http://trilema.com/2015/more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations/
gribble: The operation succeeded.
kakobrekla: davout> so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life" < https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPyFRa39AMk
davout: so far, the ranking is on par with "I've been saying “Parmesan” wrong my whole life"
davout: mircea_popescu: it's on hn, let's watch the ranking pattern
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: i prefer to not communicate lol. do your job, report the methodology and results once you're done. you got a blog ?
isaackl: mircea_popescu: and how do you prefer to communicate? all through the channel?
adlai: the world according to 1bum
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 07:29:53; mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.
adlai: will establish the referral cookie for a month or so
isaackl: Then most certainly yes.
mircea_popescu: and yes there's probably a ton of work that can be done. just needs someone competent to do it.
mircea_popescu: and they are 5 days old or so.
isaackl: The only banner I see links to trilema? But yeah, ifhe 8chan ads are fairly new, there's probably a ton of optimising can be done
Adlai: isaackl: the most successful referrals are in useful banners, eg http://www.btcalpha.com/bitbet/1128/
mircea_popescu: ok, here's the deal : bitbet has a referral system, where one gets 1% of the value of bets made by referrals.
mircea_popescu: how would you like to do some marketing for me then ?
isaackl: We targeted women in their 50s and 60s in places like Florida, if that makes sense
mircea_popescu: the brancusi of digital.
mircea_popescu: isaackl i think they're too advanced for my puny brain
isaackl: mircea_popescu: what can I say, maybe they have no purpose, only dopamine causes
cazalla: must be a different type of addict who plays them, i can't imagine your typical gambler playing them seeing there is no moment of win/loss
cazalla: pokies ipad games are popular with the kids though
cazalla: they tried to ban em down under but no luck
isaackl: So people playing slots aren't trying to win so they can buy stuff. They want to win so they get more gambling tokens
isaackl: My personal theory was it's similar psychology to RPGs, clicker games, even strategy games a little bit. You're constantly chasing advnatages which let you chase advantages, etc
isaackl: Biggest money-making gaming genre on the play store
mircea_popescu: dude how the fuck does this stupid shit work
isaackl: mircea_popescu: yep. Android only these days
mircea_popescu: davout hey, the first math class that pays for itself.
isaackl: But the virtual gambling kick is enough
isaackl: And some fish just love to gamble. I used to do marketing for the mobile-slots chumpatron, humorously people pay real money but they can't cash out real money
isaackl: Online poker eventually saw an accumulation of sharks and the fish left
isaackl: So on a table with 2 sharks and 6 fish, 2 fish will win a lot, the sharks and house will consistently make a little, and 4 fish will lose
isaackl: Yeah. Poker is great at that, fishy play gets you the occasional exciting big win. Fishy play is -ev of course, but high variance
davout: imo it's the only thing that makes the dice games profitable, the endless supply of martingale-chumps
isaackl: Gambling is rational if it's one of the rare games like poker where you can get an edge. Hard to design games like that, you need to convince the fish they can win too
isaackl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-05-2015#1139957 < Sure. And there aren't many rational reasons for people to hand over their bitcoins. (While most of the economy runs on fiat, makes sense to spend fiat and hoard btc). Gambling sites seem like one of the few options
ben_vulpes: "generas unique design makes it possible to make logic changes and feature enhancements to it on the fly without disrupting day-to-day operations of your users" << asciilifeform but how?
assbot: Logged on 20-05-2015 01:11:02; BingoBoingo: Today was the day of the planting of ornamental amaranths (Celosia). See cazalla I'm totally planting edible plants if I want to eat like the world's desperately poor!
isaackl: what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ? < Yes. Increased utility of bomber planes, USD would buy more
ben_vulpes: as with dance, sex, wine, etc. skin in the game as a prerequisite for competence.
ben_vulpes: the only way to get good at it is to do it.
ben_vulpes: isaackl: your 'wallet' experiment also suffers from the inescapable existence of ease of use and security of cryptographic goods at opposite poles.
mircea_popescu: i.... i imagine they know that.
mircea_popescu: what's next, if you could make a bomber plane that could get through china's defenses then that'd increase demand for planes ?
ben_vulpes: what's scaring people off (which is unimportant, but let's pretend for a moment) is the horrendous shitpile that the bitcoin source actually is.
mircea_popescu: isaackl you really think i depend on you to make me the tools that the universe requires for my survival ?
ben_vulpes: they have staff.
isaackl: What I'm getting to is, if you can make a secure wallet that's easy to use for, say, the peter schiffs of the world, that increases the demand for bitcoin, no?
mircea_popescu: the monopoly on violence problem makes everyone unable to actually hold gold.
ben_vulpes: assuming that you can even amass a quantity of the real stuff, and aren't playing with paper.
isaackl: ben_vulpes: yeah. another pro to btc
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, for the journos and other news fiends watching the log : i came to a resolution of a major sticking point re the rsa factorisation thing, large article coming in a few hours.
isaackl: Clearly not this universe. And gold has the advantage that people have millenia of experience securing physical things. Bitcoin can be more secure than gold, if you know what you're doing. But people lose wallets, forget passwords, choose crackable keys, etc
ben_vulpes: there is no better money.
isaackl: And in the universe where everyone with USD is a hyper-rational optimal investor, bitcoin takes over.
isaackl: Anyway, all I was getting to is that in the long run, even gold is softer than bitcoin
mircea_popescu: anyway, all this given here to underscore the fact that this shit is really fucking complex, to the point of excluding most specialists, let alone amateurs.
ben_vulpes: difference between what one expects the monetary base to do and what it's actually doing?
isaackl: Because the mining rate is known in advance and already priced in?
mircea_popescu: obviously before bitcoin nobody even understood that there is ANOTHER kind of real inflation, and thus therefore the real inflation from before is actually yet another kind of nominal inflation
mircea_popescu: Estimated Percent Change: -2.76227 << that thing is the last term.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin inflation over an interval equals the mined coins over that interval divided by the average monetary mass during that interval plus the percent change over that interval.
mircea_popescu: that's not the formula.
ben_vulpes: my problem is finding the things that fit in my head
mircea_popescu: isaackl seriously, print out the formula.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yup. cultural archeology is the superset, antrhopology being the application. it's what the wise do with their time.
isaackl: mircea_popescu: OK, to connect it to reality. Sovereign wealth fund, has a lot of USD. Realises USG is shaky and wants to diversify. How do they decide how much to allocate to gold or bitcoin?
ben_vulpes: "this coordinate system is highly unportable, and it always ended up being an intermediate stage to some other coordinate system. Thus this coordinate system has been exorcised and should be avoided in the future. JPM 1-29-91" << i am actually growing to love software archaeology
mircea_popescu: isaackl come up with the formula for bitcoin inflation, i'm curious.
isaackl: Then gold will quite possibly win the runaway effect. The gold mining rate is a constant 1.5% or so a year, so post a few more reward halvings bitcoin has the advantage
mircea_popescu: isaackl the idea being that your representation of this thing is manufactured for the needs of representation. it's what they call a didacticism, with no actual connection to reality. bad way to think.
mircea_popescu: very smart chicks develop the same, because of the same, only different but in the end the same.
mircea_popescu: it's the blessing of suck, you know ? very beautiful (and i mean, VERY, stunner beautiful) chicks develop early adolescence dementia because of all the insane sexual attention they get and don't really want, need, or know what to do with.
isaackl: No, just the aggregate decisions of people with lots of USD. If 60% choose to buy gold and 40% choose to buy btc
isaackl: Currency is a schelling point. People with lots of USD start buying bitcoin, eventually there's a runaway effect
mircea_popescu: isaackl what's this, like an exam of sorts ? the heavenly throne is holding a vote to replace the old usd with a spiffy young fellow ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yeah i'm going to find her photo and then doxx her
mircea_popescu: 1) find some group you respect ; 2) work on their ideas ; 3) there is no 3. you will have ideas, yes, but you'll never have to try and sell them like noobs with "my film idea" in hollywood.
mircea_popescu: trick question, wasn't one per se. but the idea is why the fuck do you think you're having ideas ?
mircea_popescu: no, but see... you ever read the ideas article ?
mircea_popescu: if you can do something useful, do it. if not, relax and watch the show.
mircea_popescu: isaackl you ever read the causes/purposes article ?
isaackl: Hypothetical example: a hyper-secure bitcoin wallet that's easy enough for a Warren Buffet to use. Maybe not actually possible, but if it existed, much more wealth would flow into bitcoin, no?
ben_vulpes: where'd the 55 yo steelworker get off to
ben_vulpes: nobody can do anything to increase the value of btc as an investment. it's here, it's queer, nobody's changing it.
isaackl: Sensible bitcoin businesses are those that increase the value of btc as an investment (not user adoption or transaction volume or anything like that
isaackl: (i.e., after a few more reward halvings mean less coin is being dumped on the market by miners, speculators have been burned enough times that more coin is held by long-term investors and volatility drops a bit)
isaackl: Well, taking the thesis that the real value of bitcoin is as an inflation hedge, and that funds will increasingly flow into bitcoin as people realise this
ben_vulpes: sounds like quite the life
isaackl: "cynical" but also, in the long-run, impractical
isaackl: Last gig was freelancing for another startup (curiously, also backed by a16z and qualcomm). Their big product was an Android emulator, lots of users, crazy schemes to try and monetize them
isaackl: Indeed, my guess was Balaji raised on buzzword bingo (blockchain technologee! IoT!) and then groped around for an actual plan
ben_vulpes: get in the wot, you.
ben_vulpes: the days of thousand+ coin scams are nowhere near past us, they're just denominated in dollars now.
ben_vulpes: 21 doesn't pass the even-barely-making-sense test.
ben_vulpes: overt "greater fool theory" investments everywhere.
ben_vulpes: dude the entire vc space is incredibly cynical
ben_vulpes: are you familiar with the buckshot approach to "investment" common in startuplandia?
isaackl: Ethereum, sure
isaackl: 21.co (and their a16z backers) on paper seem too smart to be useful idiots
ben_vulpes: are you familiar with the notion of "useful idiots"?
ben_vulpes: isaackl: see the copious historical threads on how fiat-backed forays into bitcoin are more-or-less raiding parties for the US Treasury
isaackl: I.e., how many of the VC-funded "crypocurrency! blockchain!" startups have realised the optimal move is simply to hoard bitcoin?
isaackl: Or do they actually believe that stuff and know are desperately looking to put their VC bezzlebucks to good use
isaackl: Is there 'bitcoin is a protocol' stuff a cynical ploy
isaackl: A bit at odds with their plan to leach electricity off consumers for mining
isaackl: They keep derping about 'Bitcoin is a protocol'/internet-of-things craziness
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 21:42:17; asciilifeform: re: '21' etc >> 'The cornerstone of the strategy as presented would have been the release of consumer products that would turn power from wall sockets into bitcoin through the widespread dissemination of bitcoin mining chips.' << -somebody- clearly reads the 2013 #b-a logs.
isaackl: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-05-2015#1130899 < I see there was already some discussion of 21.co
isaackl: Figured since I've actually read a decent amount of trilema.com and the b-a logs I should finally join the chan
isaackl: I was reading the epic conversation with justJanne
ben_vulpes: adc on the cheap via mic input
ben_vulpes: "The key facet of the OS X audio I/O model involves predictive timing mechanisms. Instead of requiring the driver to message an application directly when an I/O cycle has completed, the timing mechanisms enable the Audio HAL to predict when the cycle will complete." << wowee
trinque: the real solution is apparently unfucking dieharder more broadly
trinque: ben_vulpes: oh the dieharder thing?
ben_vulpes: hanbot: specifically the part i found amusing was the closing </code> tag at the top of the document and the opening <code> tag at the bottom
punkman: " allows a man-in-the-middle attacker to downgrade vulnerable TLS connections to 512-bit export-grade cryptography"
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu sha512(the_answer.tar.gz.asc) == b0d915a9f73a21c47b0444a31cf8e3a9393e31a8cc676aec318198ff5d0f958d68756b160335d65ba7dce2e94072de19e4cc4214912f81cee121bdd6d9a4aec8, aaand you've got mail.
decimation: ben_vulpes: I'm familiar with the idea that exists. no idea how it is calculated
ben_vulpes: 'But she added the uses of hashtags such as "kill all white men" on her personal account were "in-jokes and ways that many people in the queer feminist community express ourselves".' << gotta love these people. "when you make jokes i don't understand and therefore piss me off, i round up a hate squad and get you fired. when i make jokes, it's in-group solidarity and YOU CAN'T SAY ANYHTING ABOUT IT"
ben_vulpes: <decimation> [01:51] or is the 'price signal' one of those things usg can will into existance? << are you familiar with the "winkdex"?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mike_c: ;;later tell jurov sorry for the wait, found this lying around on my todo list - http://www.btcalpha.com/wot/user/BBB0A99950037551F533850A677ABD62D0AEE7D7/
mod6: ok, so gnupg v2 relies on libgcrypt to generate the keys, i finally found the code: dpaste.com/3106AJC.txt Seems that it does the same thing as v1 when doing the Euler totient.
BingoBoingo: !up thestringpuller
trinque: asciilifeform: if you end up opening your treasure chest please deedbot- the sha256sums
trinque: I'm spelunking in the wayback machine for shasums or something
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell justJanne Parts of the US have Nordic Systen style laws https://www.agr.state.il.us/Laws/Regs/8iac220.pdf
asciilifeform: signed by them
gavmatic: they have 0.2.8
asciilifeform: but would prefer another
trinque: all hail glorious corporate HR department mothering
trinque: https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/36h7jn/bahar_mustafa_goldsmiths_diversity_officer_at/?sort=top << the biggest lol is that notice which accompanies the thread being closed
mod6: BingoBoingo: yeah, probably was ported 2x since then would be my guess; first from CVS to SVN then from SVN to GIT
mod6: looks like that part of the code hasn't changed since the initial checkin of the code back in nov. of 97: committer Werner Koch <wk@gnupg.org> Tue, 18 Nov 1997 14:06:00 +0000 (14:06 +0000) 5393dd53c5e06f0458949217317601b2eaed8350 http://git.gnupg.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=gnupg.git;a=commit;h=5393dd53c5e06f0458949217317601b2eaed8350
decimation: or is the 'price signal' one of those things usg can will into existance?
decimation: ben_vulpes: right but the 'price signal' comes from - you know - trading?
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> <pete_dushenski> looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose. << whattabout Fury Road? << No One's going to talk about the blantant pro-Doge propaganda in Age of Ultron?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: so i walk into $redacted on monday and folks compare me to pons & fleischmann. so there'll be teasing, yes.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu it is presently searching for, well... them.
ben_vulpes: <decimation> so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade? << "price signal" is necessary for securities.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: Big Hero 6 was rather good.
bitstein: The Lego Movie was absolutely fantastic.
ben_vulpes: ah i do enjoy the odd kids' movie, but those are largely action movies as well
pete_dushenski: i'm more of a comedy man myself, but there aren't really 'modern releases' in this genre that aren't animated.
ben_vulpes: of the modern releases.
pete_dushenski: furious 7 was the last, before that i dun even remember.
ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose. << whattabout Fury Road?
asciilifeform: ... same pattern as others.
BingoBoingo: Today was the day of the planting of ornamental amaranths (Celosia). See cazalla I'm totally planting edible plants if I want to eat like the world's desperately poor!
pete_dushenski: still a healthy premium but also about half what it was in the first few manic days of trading.
pete_dushenski: and in other news, livejasmin is accepting btc, ripple raised $28 mn, and bitcoin is "leaderless" now : http://www.technologyreview.com/news/537486/leaderless-bitcoin-struggles-to-make-its-most-crucial-decision/
mod6: heheh, there are like even random '^L's in this file.
mod6: yikes! well, that confirms it, not that i was ever going to use gnupg v2 anyway, but now that i've looked at the code, CERTAINLY NOT.
assbot: Successfully updated the rating for pete_dushenski from 2 to 3 with note: prolific writer and traveler of the world
bitstein: and it brought the funk
pete_dushenski: bitstein it definitely yielded stimulating conversation, even if it had some holes in the plot and storyline
pete_dushenski: calgary is a good bit more temperate than edmonton (300km further north) as a result of the chinook winds
bitstein: pete_dushenski: agreed. I'm glad I went to the theater to see it. Not many movies worth the trip anymore.
decimation: does your local grocery store display the spot price of tuna in tsukiji?
pete_dushenski: decimation and obama is supposed to be president of the free world.
decimation: pete_dushenski: I guess, but they are supposed to be running - a market?
pete_dushenski: decimation for the same reason that cnn and the rest of the sideline jockeys report on news. they dun make it. just talk about it.
bitstein: pete_dushenski: midwit-level analysis of AI aside, I wish they had explored Nathan's fear of his own invention more. I also thought that it ended two minutes later than it should have.
decimation: so can someone explain why the nyse would have a bitcoin index without any actual bitcoin-backed securities for trade?
mod6: so above there they do a swap of 'p' & 'q' to make p the smaller of the two. then they take the nlimbs of 'p' twice to allocate the space for each t1 & t2. which i thought was kinda strange.
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gnnr with note: just a reader of the logs
asciilifeform: can we get the maintainer in here ?
pete_dushenski: looks like ex machina wasn't popular with the b-a crowd. no huge shock, i suppose.
mod6: they're both declared with type MPI, was just curious i guess.
mod6: i see below the actual maff is being carried out in here:
mod6: take a look at this: http://dpaste.com/0SQPBKC.txt Is there any reason when allocating the space for p & q to do Eulers totient they would initialize the space with 'p' and 'p', instead of 'p' & 'q'?
decimation: but they were going to branch out into more 'turnkey' design services so they can feed off of the kickstart idiocy
decimation: apparently they have a supply of skilled techs
decimation: actually they asked him about that and he said no
decimation: asciilifeform: in fact, they implied that pretty much only house parts are placed on the pick n place, the rest are hand placed
gnnr: hello just a reader of the logs, joining here
decimation: asciilifeform: re: smt placement < according to the podcast, the macrofab guys said they often hand-place stuff if it is going to be a pain in the ass to configure the pick n place for it
mod6: we'll be correlating all the data and putting together a bit of a press-release and notes along with it as soon as the v0.5.3 perf test is complete
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: 3 ? <+mod6> Ok, the v0_5_3_1-RELEASE performance test is complete. Charts are posted here if you'd like to view: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v0_5_3_1-RELEASE-Charts/ <+mod6> You'll notice that there are two times that during the full blockchain sync, bitcoind got oomkill'd. <+mod6> Again, this is just the bitcoin-v0_5_3_1-RELEASE -- no patches added. <+mod6> And for reference, here's where you can view the performance tes
asciilifeform: (this could underplay the effect of 'bastards' however)
jurov: it's the nubbins` tax patch
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: 0.5.3 (virginal, aside from db lock patch), 0.5.3.1-RELEASE and 0.5.3.1-RELEASE + orphanage thermonuke
mod6: ok, so v0.5.3 is compiled and running -- im doing a nmon perf collection on that as well. then we'll have all three to compare.
trinque: afaik using a deedbot against the blockchain is the only actually verifiable way of timestamping data that exists
jurov: i decided to make sha1sums of decrypted text (and in future check them for duplicity)