flyplymouth: Where Plymouth got into trouble in the past was it was reliant on BA flights. We'll set up the flights directly
williamdunne: flyplymouth: And I know business model is different, I meant more along the lines of bandwidth, plane size etc
flyplymouth: Also we will have some Fixed Based Operators onsite which absorb alot of the running costs.
flyplymouth: The business model is completey different from Exeter. To be fair Exeter do quite a good job for its size. We'll be smaller planes as a 'connecting airport' so you won't initially get many holiday destinations but it would connect into key cities and hubs.
mircea_popescu: 64/32 bit linux later for the noobs, but give sane people a chance to make their stuff first.
mircea_popescu: jurov these first.
mircea_popescu: jurov ok, so then osx 10.10, win 7 and win 8.1 to start ?
flyplymouth: Stress test the business model to see if passenger numbers stack up and ticket prices.
jurov: 7.x is powerpc era :) that would be like another platform completely
flyplymouth: there has already been pledges of funds £20m to date but this cannot e accessed without the business plan being stress tested. We have done this already but has to be stress tested to Heathrow / Gatwick standards to access serious money (e.g Government etc)
williamdunne: flyplymouth: So raise £150,000, then what?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Biggest thing in their favour is that it was an airport that was closed, doesn't need 100% rebuilding
flyplymouth: well I am one of them
mircea_popescu: can you do these 3 ?
williamdunne: Imma invite them on here
jurov: putting together somehow mostly-reliably working binaries
williamdunne: I thought that was the Kiwis?
trinque: why wouldn't they? isn't that what facebook's business is?
williamdunne: So wouldn't be surprised if they just outright buy facebook's data
williamdunne: USG already pays good money to dell and the likes for information on who buys what from them, and what bitcoin addresses are involved in the transaction
trinque: d-did the jews do facebook?
trinque revels in this new watershed of freedom post-lapse of the patriot act
trinque: and then google chrome ships a diddled gpg plugin
williamdunne: trinque: IKR? Pretending that the NSA isn't already embedded 12 inches in their rectum
trinque: what they don't have a database now?
jurov: mircea_popescu: it's same lulzy "protection" as the facebook gpg stuff
williamdunne: But yeah, like thats going to combat the NSA
ascii_field: in one of the old 'failed micronations' threads
mats: USG discovers american citizens involved in foreign, would-be coup, decides to sell them out to local security rather than dealing with it themselves
mats: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-a-reviled-african-ruler-survived-a-coup-hatched-in-the-united-states/2015/05/31/a9fc1772-0485-11e5-8bda-c7b4e9a8f7ac_story.html
jurov: "All the emails you receive from Facebook will be protected with encryption, ensuring that no one — even NSA or any other spy agency — can read the content of the messages without the access to your private key." rofl
williamdunne: A new study has officially proved that French are smelly and Dutch, Germans and Scandinavians are the cleanest ones."
williamdunne: "And the ‘stinkiest’ people in Europe are French
williamdunne: http://www.financialexpress.com/article/industry/and-the-stinkiest-people-in-europe-are-french/78441/
williamdunne: Hence "For discussion of the bitcoin-xt potentialt"
ascii_field: williamdunne: afaik they are not sold to public.
trinque: the steam computer?
ascii_field: jurov: sure. i was trying to point out that the answer 'well firewall it off' is not a pill against this kind of thing
mircea_popescu: if you have one not running thre same shit just run that then
ascii_field: and that it is far from certain what precisely the magic packet looks like
ascii_field: not to mention the fact that it hijacks your nics
williamdunne: mYeah, but one not running the same shit
mircea_popescu: what's off machine, another machine ?
williamdunne: Couldn't this be partially solved with a rather stringent firewall policy (off-machine ofc)
ascii_field: this was discussed here in the past
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: recent 'xeons' won't init unless thing is on the bus and functioning
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with colocate box with the thing smashed.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it's a mandatory usg rapehole; the remote admin thing is just a way to squeeze a bit of marketing juice out of it, since it is already there
mod6: <+ascii_field> mod6: i was simply pointing out that it is not, afaik, part of the official therealbitcoin tree as of yet. << ahh corret.
mircea_popescu: i think ipmi is the most retarded thing ever invented
ascii_field: let'em move to gavincoin, dogecoin, feathercoin
ascii_field: mod6: i was simply pointing out that it is not, afaik, part of the official therealbitcoin tree as of yet.
mod6: Then it was working well as far as I know.
mod6: He was running deb8 on one box, and then stock v0.5.3.1-RELEASE worked fine. but on a seperate instance of deb8, he reported the boost type issues, so I had him follow these instructions: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-April/000082.html
mircea_popescu: cazalla has the scoop on that
bitcoinfailed: that what the chat for
bitcoinfailed: is anyone even trading on the mpex exchange?
jurov: shinohai: don't forget other goodies like put deeds, send email to btc-dev mailing list (once it syncs with assbot)
thestringpuller: cause old coin can be cloned to the fork
williamdunne: They're square-jerking circular-pitchforks in the middle of a Block Chain authenticated cluster-chain
BingoBoingo: nah, they are pitchfuckingforks into a clustermob.
thestringpuller: the redditards are clusterfucking into a pitchfork mob now?!?
trinque: Landgull: dunno about everything and their cat, but putting cryptographic hashes in the blockchain is a marvelous idea
Landgull: So why is it that all of the sudden I'm hearing about people wanting to put everything and their cat in the blockchain? Is it actually a good idea, or is it just a way to attack/overwhelm the network?
shinohai: This is about the only place that isn't an echo chamber anymore sadly.
Landgull: At any rate, I've been reading the logs for a bit and I like the kind of discussion that seems to happen in here, so I thought I'd say hi.
mircea_popescu: this is more like the equivalent of dog sniffing.
Landgull: Eh, anyone who has tried to censor tends to find themselves outlived by the works they're trying to censor, if history is any guide.
mircea_popescu: i would guess it'd depend just how desperate they are.
Landgull: Well sure, but kids don't waste their time on things they don't care about. You don't see them pulling pigtails because they think a girl is ugly.
mircea_popescu: they still need parenting, even if nobody can be arsed to provide for them. so they beg as best they can.
mircea_popescu: Landgull the internet consists among other things of millions of unparented children.
jurov: "Could not connect to the database: User 'scimag_read' has exceeded the 'max_user_connections' resource (current value: 40)"
referredbyloper: Thinking about this block size discussion in light of this text "The cancer of bureaucracy: How it will destroy science, medicine, education; and eventually everything else" http://gen.lib.rus.ec/scimag/index.php?s=The%20cancer%20of%20bureaucracy:%20how%20it%20will%20destroy%20science,%20medicine,%20education;%20and%20eventually%20everything%20else
Relos: how do you guys propose to increase the node count?
jurov: and as progressing confiscation and dispossession of real estates, chattels and intangibles currently held without right by the aforementioned criminal group allows, further compensation to satisfy at least five times the value of property lost at the time the loss occurred.
jurov: "This is to certify that any person with a WoT account in assbot's L2 list that can show proof their property was confiscated through the direct or indirect workings of the soi-dissant "Executive Order" issued April 1st, 2015 by the criminal group illegally misidentifying itself as "government of the United States" will receive a 1 (one) Bitcoin compensation on the spot
jurov: mod6, good job with the report!
jurov: deedbot- http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150601/attachment_9bdc72d1f44647c3690340d290b4d0eeeae8b794.txt
jurov: deedbot- http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150531/attachment_fbcbdbbbf27cc9ec17055e2635cb71abc6c6c05a.txt
jurov: deedbot- http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150601/attachment_9bdc72d1f44647c3690340d290b4d0eeeae8b794.txt http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20150531/attachment_fbcbdbbbf27cc9ec17055e2635cb71abc6c6c05a.txt
shinohai: So is it possible to change the *network* it connects to, to one under your control ?
asciilifeform: stands to reason that once enemy engages he'll begin to spam the remaining irc seed chans - or even backport mechanism to his branch
asciilifeform: shinohai: irc seeding was snipped from the gavin branch long ago
assbot: Logged on 01-06-2015 13:55:14; shinohai: mod6 when you return, wanted to let you know I built without the irc peer discovery and it works nice.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149602 << and kept what? the hardcoded ip seeds, of which 2 or 3 are alive? the hardcoded dns seeds, controlled by the enemy? srsly
mircea_popescu: i prefer this, because it drains the attacker.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Is the qntra server under DoS?
shinohai: mod6 when you return, wanted to let you know I built without the irc peer discovery and it works nice.
punkman: 0.5.3.1-RELEASE doesn't verify everything, needs removal of the conditional that skips blocks
punkman: I think I put in all the patches currently listed on thebitcoin.foundation front page, except perhaps static-makefile.tar.gz. And used whatever openssl etc that was present on my debian7 system.
mircea_popescu: " foundation bitcoind before the release"
punkman: my test was with foundation bitcoind before the release though
mircea_popescu: get say the foundation bitcoin, do it yourself.
punkman: mircea_popescu: atm the whole chain still verifies if you care to. << has anyone actually accomplished this? verify every single transaction and block to date?
assbot: Logged on 01-06-2015 09:40:31; cazalla: prob isn't working class people buying it but the chinese.. a lot of foreign investment of aussie housing is coming from china past few years, thought is that they dont mind paying huge premiums just to get their money outta there
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149524 << pretty much exactly. argentine housing bubble is supported by the fact that locals can't get their money out, so they buy real estate "for investment", ie, way overpriced.
assbot: Logged on 01-06-2015 09:11:43; punkman: and when I tried to verify all of them, it blew up before block 150k
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149518 << obviously, you can't use the scam bitcoind versions for this purpose.
mircea_popescu: atm the whole chain still verifies if you care to.
mircea_popescu: but they were disallowed from actually taking the next step, ie, make blocks unverifiable.
assbot: Logged on 01-06-2015 09:10:39; punkman: asciilifeform: decimation: if you didn't verify the entire blockchain from end to end, you aren't a node! << this will be fun to do because of all the different openssl versions that have shat on the blockchain. iirc the thing skips verification of whole blocks and then relies on verifying a single (checkpoint) block.
bitcoinalpha: mircea: comment about the 30% price decline ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149468 << clearly they were armored o.O
BingoBoingo: !up devthedev
scoopbot_revived: The sexual chains that bind. http://www.contravex.com/2015/06/01/the-sexual-chains-that-bind/
cazalla: prob isn't working class people buying it but the chinese.. a lot of foreign investment of aussie housing is coming from china past few years, thought is that they dont mind paying huge premiums just to get their money outta there
punkman: and when I tried to verify all of them, it blew up before block 150k
punkman: asciilifeform: decimation: if you didn't verify the entire blockchain from end to end, you aren't a node! << this will be fun to do because of all the different openssl versions that have shat on the blockchain. iirc the thing skips verification of whole blocks and then relies on verifying a single (checkpoint) block.
BingoBoingo: Well, it was just the difficulty cycling. For a while it was manageable, but eventually swings were uncontainable
chalbersma: Yes at the time they had a big problem with the network effect. Difficulty had skyrocketed because of some market movement that made it (temporarily) more profitable to mine than bitcoin.
BingoBoingo: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ << Mining with chainhoppers became untenable
chalbersma: Think is I don't think that anybody is actually using ATC P2Pool implementation anymore. The contract for the build had 1 month of runtime and then MP and Ragnar I believe ran the p2pool node for a while. But ATC didn't seem to catch on that much.
chalbersma: In this case I forked the bitcoin p2pool implementation (https://github.com/forrestv/p2pool) added a better interface and ported it over to ATC pool (under the hoods it're really just a couple of lines).
chalbersma: So with P2Pool the idea is that you will run a mining "pool" that share's it's load with other mining "pools". There a cryptographic chain keeping track of work so that you can't cheat or mine a block and then keep it. So in the end instead of having one centralized plae where all the mining work is kept you get the benefits of the pool with bitcoin like decentralization.
liquidassets: chalbersma mining is foreign to me, do you make the nodes? how do you become a client?
gribble: What does one exahash look like? | StandardCrypto: <http://blog.standardcrypto.com/2013/09/17/what-does-one-exahash-look-like/>; BitBet - BTC network hashrate will exceed 1 Exahash/s before June ...: <https://bitbet.us/bet/1074/btc-network-hashrate-will-exceed-1-exahash-s-before/>; BitcoinBrothers - GetHashing Crypto Community Forum: (1 more message)
hanbot: hey mod6 well done on the foundation report. clearly & intelligibly conveys the ample and useful work being done.
decimation: who else is gonna pay for the sun
decimation: 'derivative' in the sense that the wright flyer had almost zero in common, other than they were both flying things
decimation: in fact if you would have zapped an f-35 back to kitty hawk, nc the wright brothers would have just given up
mircea_popescu: decimation the jet is merely a derivative work off hobbysts stuff
mircea_popescu: and someone somewhere still naively proposes the nist be taken as anything but the goskomstat ?
mircea_popescu: "In a short notice published last month, the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST) announced it was retiring a number of Federal Information Processing Standards (FIPS) because they were obsolete. Notably, that list of retirements includes FIPS-185."
decimation: that's a point, but there's a world of difference between a flying bicycle and a fancy jet
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149360 << nothing worth the mention was ever done by anything but hobbysts. they do flight. "industry" and so on does the f-35.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149357 << you must have missed the story about the powerless airbus because java.
assbot: Logged on 01-06-2015 02:54:08; asciilifeform: imho one of the most perplexing things about 'anti-bitcoin' agitators is how they all - to a man - miss the most cogent argument against bitcoin: it being, how it is implemented
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149352 on one hand, they're talking to a crowd, and for that particular crowd talking sense means you lose. why the fuck they imagine against plainly obvious reality that it still matters or can help them is besides the point here. on the other hand, they don't want to help. formulating cogent criticisms is helping.
mircea_popescu: whatcher doin' these days yo ?
assbot: Logged on 01-06-2015 02:28:46; mod6: http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000096.html << The State of Bitcoin Address
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=01-06-2015#1149292 << /me greps for ben_vulpes in there, finds entry in title
mircea_popescu: jesus the internet's a riot.
mircea_popescu: bwahahaha wait, there's derps actually writing on tardstalk like all seriously and naively and whatnot ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform picks up phone, calls airline, asks to buy ticket to country where they have thin smart people with non-governmental money
asciilifeform: regardless of what kind of pig you might own, the hucksters will gladly sell you fourteen varieties of s333k0000r1ty!!!11 lipstick for it.
asciilifeform: hence the form factor.
asciilifeform: Vexual: the only (usable) hole in a google pNohe
Vexual: sd card is the only hole on a google netbook?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller, decimation: whether snowden & co. started out as psyop or not, fact is that at this point it is 100% a marketing machine for 'vaults' and 'redpNohes' of a thousand and one kinds
asciilifeform: Vexual: sd card with single-chip 'crypto coprocessor' (a la the atmel turd discussed a few months ago; possibly even the very same) - with extra holy water and marketing drivel included
Vexual: i assumed vault was just a word that presumed they were better than apple at storing nudes, so i didnt look
asciilifeform: at any rate, google is ripping off folks like https://www.nitrokey.com and the two or three similar items discussed in previous logs
decimation: asciilifeform: note that usg doesn't really need to be 'good', it's just that there's no credible alternative
asciilifeform: http://www.internethistorypodcast.com/2014/08/the-nsa-tried-this-before-what-the-90s-debate-over-the-clipper-chip-can-teach-us-about-digital-privacy-debates << moar on the subject. tabloid, but with pretty picturez.
asciilifeform: the first time around, they made the mistake of being honest about the intentions of backdooring
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i'm seeing a microsd single-chip turd
asciilifeform: can't wait for the usg cardano.
asciilifeform: why the hell would anyone pay anyone to, e.g., kill mosquitoes, when 'deadheads' who paid nothing still get the 'product' (avoiding bites) ?
asciilifeform: no one will ever make a living, much less get rich, selling the sun.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:59:41; mircea_popescu: people do buy chemicals, but they don't buy "chemistry"
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:48; mircea_popescu: the idea here being that people wouldn't pay for a sane os for the same reason they won't payfor the sun.
assbot: Logged on 11-05-2015 20:00:50; mircea_popescu: "TLDR I ran afl-fuzz against libbitcoinconsensus to discover interesting Bitcoin scripts and used them to search for Bitcoin reimplementations vulnerable to forking. This discovered two bugs in btcd by Conformal. See the bitcoinconsensus_testcases repository for the discovered Bitcoin scripts."
decimation: it could be rebuilt, but not without the resources of a rich prince
asciilifeform: there -exists- software not crafted out of duct tape and gum
decimation: well, because what do they have? excel?
asciilifeform: imho one of the most perplexing things about 'anti-bitcoin' agitators is how they all - to a man - miss the most cogent argument against bitcoin: it being, how it is implemented
asciilifeform: (notice, incidentally, that cpp is virtually unused outside the microturd world ?)
asciilifeform: the real enabler
decimation: yeah but folks don't realize the crime yet, apparently
asciilifeform: this is one of the reasons why i - in all seriousness - believe c++ to be one of the 20th century's greatest crimes against the future.
asciilifeform: on the other hand, it -is- a candidate for the possible hidey-hole of the 'phantom' ram
asciilifeform: just has the appearance of something one could perhaps shave a MB or two off, total.
mod6: yeah, its not in there.
asciilifeform: for what is and isn't on the gameboard.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> not 100% certain that we're all using same bdb... << but anyway, yeah, I'll check anyway. there is a chance that we could be looking at two seperate versions.
mod6: well, if one starts with the v0.5.3.1-RELEASE built with auto.sh, then BDB 4.8.30 will be built with it.
decimation: asciilifeform: I'm using the auto.sh build
mod6: <+asciilifeform> our ver. of bdb actually lacks the set_memory_max << OH. ok did not realize that. damn. well, i'll mention this fact in next months letter. should hvae asked.
mod6: I should have put in a line maybe about "encouraged to read the submitted emails" or something, but perhaps I just thought it was implied.
asciilifeform: there is a cache cap option. setting it did precisely nothing.
asciilifeform: our ver. of bdb actually lacks the set_memory_max
asciilifeform: oh perhaps i should mention that i tested the db memory thing
asciilifeform: mod6: the igprof thing was its own patch
asciilifeform: mod6: i would comment that technically the block-bastardage and tx-orphanage nukes are semantically independent. but the latter was derived from a main.cpp patched with the former.
decimation: yeah, but there's a difference between "here's our history; you verify" and "pls to give transactions"
asciilifeform: decimation: if you didn't verify the entire blockchain from end to end, you aren't a node!
asciilifeform: lispworks is actually (afaik to this day) the maintainer of the online cl hyperspec! while documentation from franz was once superb - came in printed volumes, which i bought second-hand
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> trinque and i were wondering about their CLIM implementations, and if documentation etc was better on the closed-source side of the world << i never had lispworks and can't comment about it, but franz 'allegro' does come with clim. iirc it only works in the non-smp version though, and depends on gtk
decimation: asciilifeform: forgive my ignorance, but there's a single valid path through the blockchain
asciilifeform: it is a consequence of how screamingly retarded the sync mechanism is to begin with
Adlai: both are too heavy to wield manually but electron microscopes, unlike the boeing, lack self-propulsion
asciilifeform: decimation: asciilifeform: maybe one solution to the 'bastard transmitter' problem would be ... this is still reasoning from the misconception that 'bastards' necessarily come from malicious or malfunctioning nodes. this is not the case - a 0.5.3.x will emit bastards - from point of view of certain nodes - just as often as any other
Adlai: i've heard they're great for hammering in nails
asciilifeform: <ben_vulpes> Adlai, asciilifeform: are the commercial lisps worth paying for? << extremely bad question. is a boeing worth paying for? depends!
decimation: asciilifeform: maybe one solution to the 'bastard transmitter' problem would be to make an irc/gossip/udp net that requires proof of wot membership to join
decimation: re: gold standard doesn't work < yeah this might be the case, but nearly all of the criticisms offered would apply equally to bitcoin
ben_vulpes: trinque and i were wondering about their CLIM implementations, and if documentation etc was better on the closed-source side of the world
ben_vulpes: Adlai, asciilifeform: are the commercial lisps worth paying for?
ben_vulpes: rewriting the block explorer now, Adlai ?
Adlai found that in the gribble source, didn't realize it was just parotting a value from elsewhere
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 22:53:20; midnightmagic: williamdunne: If you're quick enough, I suppose. Also, this is presuming the host itself isn't in some fashion pwned, since who knows how it was actually compromised considering the physical drives are unavailable for examination.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149172 << that is always and without exception the sign of a vps being sold as fake "dedicated"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: granted, but 'don't let strangers throw ten pounds of shit each into your five-pound bag' is not higher mathematics ...?
mircea_popescu: and someone coding in windows and without much of a clue about programming as a theoretical discipline.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 21:27:33; asciilifeform: i don't even apprehend why this 'jam tomorrow' nonsense was even in there in the first place.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149145 << you have to appreciate the situation at the time. not that many nodes alive or expected, and a certain desperation to "make it work".
asciilifeform: once we have a reasonable 'embrace and extend' of sync mechanism - then yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha but here there isn't a 'me' and 'you' yet
asciilifeform: but this reflects the lack of a reasonable 'gossip' mechanism - on both ends
asciilifeform: it is 'bad' from standpoint of node which doesn't have the antecedents, yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: our 0.5.3.xyz isn't any more clever on the transmitter end!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149136 << the latter point is correct, for now. but, much like us being here makes live marginally harder for now, yet the presence of punishment for idiots provides them an incentive to either get killed or get fixed, just so putting that in there pre-pogo provides an avenue for the network to purge itself of idiocy.
mircea_popescu: and gold standard != deflation for the record. not anymore than diarrhea = transpiration
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 20:42:43; decimation: if you want to see academic 'tardation in its glory, this is the place to go
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149130 << notwithstanding that the dudes in question are probably illiterate, gold standard does in fact not work for a large array or reasons. this exercise is not unlike an attempt to deride qm on the grounds that the various twerps making money out of govt grants in physics academia could not explain it.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 12:11:09; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1148837 << i would like to see a patch which maintains VALUED list of other nodes.
assbot: Logged on 31-05-2015 19:47:00; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> yeah its weird << nothing weird about it. the sync mechanism is braindamaged more or less as far as it is even possible to be braindamaged.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=31-05-2015#1149112 << i was talking about the mixed moduli situation yo.
Adlai: there are no stupid questions, only stupid people
Adlai: although i guess it could be an experiment, and the experimenters wanted to only diddle their own keys, to minimize collateral damage
Adlai: why would key owners distribute bad versions of their own keys?
Lk4_DPB: by the owner or someone else?