mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel how's the os business.
decimation: (Though, this does include the linecount, which has now passed 100KLOC, more than double that of XFS or ext*. Scary).
decimation: http://codemonkey.org.uk/2015/03/13/lsfmm-2015-recap/ < lol . Josef did touch on one area that btrfs does still suck, which apparently is database workloads (iirc, due to the copy-on-write nature of btrfs). The spurious ENOSPC failures of the past should hopefully stay in the past. Things generally on the up and up.
asciilifeform: folks who start to 'question why' begin to have trouble with the 'do and die'
decimation: it 'works', they 'made money', who is to question?
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, it is readily observable and quite visible.
mircea_popescu: thing is... i might be the only suit that can tell the difference between bad and good code, on account of being the only suit that is also literate. as in, literature-literate.
asciilifeform: to be fair, most often these folks are of the 'ours is not to question why, ours is but to do and die' (TM) (R) variety.
decimation: you see the programmers are too busy 'delivering' to think about issues like 'why is the whole thing a peice of shit'
asciilifeform: where even this is not enough, and they leave nop sleds (yes) in the binaries, for hot-patching (and virii)
asciilifeform: they live in microshitland
mircea_popescu: at bug that occurred when the file is on a floppy disk and the user yanks out the disk in the middle. That LoadLibrary call is ugly but it makes the code work on old versions of Windows 95."
mircea_popescu: "Back to that two page function. Yes, I know, it's just a simple function to display a window, but it has grown little hairs and stuff on it and nobody knows why. Well, I'll tell you why: those are bug fixes. One of them fixes that bug that Nancy had when she tried to install the thing on a computer that didn't have Internet Explorer. Another one fixes that bug that occurs in low memory conditions. Another one fixes th
mircea_popescu: fuck your mother with a clay pot.
mircea_popescu: the idea that new code is better than old IS NOT patently absurd when the old code was writen by unaware idiots.
mircea_popescu: "The idea that new code is better than old is patently absurd. Old code has been used. It has been tested. Lots of bugs have been found, and they've been fixed. There's nothing wrong with it. It doesn't acquire bugs just by sitting around on your hard drive. Au contraire, baby! Is software supposed to be like an old Dodge Dart, that rusts just sitting in the garage? Is software like a teddy bear that's kind of gross if
mircea_popescu: "Before Borland's new spreadsheet for Windows shipped, Philippe Kahn, the colorful founder of Borland, was quoted a lot in the press bragging about how Quattro Pro would be much better than Microsoft Excel, because it was written from scratch. All new source code! As if source code rusted."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nah, the old netscape crud (from which we get 'mozilla' et al) is probably worse
mircea_popescu: apache may be the worst codebase ever written
BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: note that most of the 'news outlets' cut and paste the errors of other outlets << How do you score qntra on this scale?
decimation: asciilifeform: note that most of the 'news outlets' cut and paste the errors of other outlets
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: note that typical derprogrammer likes to sit down on a soft cushion of 'it doesn't work because i surely made a small mistake', rather than the hard concrete of 'it is broken because i am illiterate' --- or the sharp pine stake of 'because i am a moron'
assbot: Logged on 02-06-2015 23:27:20; alphonse23_: does 4096 refer to the max size of one of the primes. or the primes multiplied togetheR?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-06-2015#1152021 << 4096 bits (~ 400 digits long) is the size of the key.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform reason actually related to the " one of the reasons why such environments are unpopular"
mircea_popescu: as if reality were contusive or something. which, i suppose it actually is for their ilk
asciilifeform: actually it is worth pointing out that most of the newsturds specifically -did not- link to phuctor
decimation: asciilifeform: aye, precisely. but those 'bugs in head' are the primary concern of a programmer, presumably
assbot: Logged on 02-06-2015 23:25:27; danielpbarron: i assumed anything that he might have read that pointed to this channel would have also linked to the real phuctor but yeah ok
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-06-2015#1152011 << the converse is a safe assumption. shitgnomes are more than happy to tell you the "meta" story of what happened, which is characteristically light on any sort of useful or usable anything.
asciilifeform: decimation: one of the reasons why such environments are unpopular is that, once people are rid of 'bugs from the fingers', they are left face to face with 'bugs in the head'
decimation: asciilifeform: I would be willing to make the trade to some kind of fascist ada if I could be assured that the tools would detect nearly all detectablle bugs
mircea_popescu: alphonse23_ you read http://trilema.com/2015/on-how-the-factored-4096-rsa-keys-story-was-handled-and-what-it-means-to-you/ an http://trilema.com/2015/more-factored-rsa-keys-and-assorted-other-considerations/ i expect ?
decimation: bitcoin violates nearly all of them
asciilifeform: due to the way pointer arithmetic works
assbot: Logged on 02-06-2015 22:35:55; jurov: but then the bytes would be shuffled, not bits reversed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the basic concept that must be understood is that c/cpp are entirely impossible to 'reason' about mechanically
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> 'Andy confirmed that Coverity does not spot the heartbleed flaw and said that it remained stubborn even when they tweaked various analysis settings.' << Can't spot heartbleed because custom OpenSSL malloc
assbot: Logged on 02-06-2015 22:27:24; ascii_field: at this point it probably makes sense to churn the entire sks db for tuples of keys having same userid and date, and diff all said tuples.
asciilifeform: 'Andy confirmed that Coverity does not spot the heartbleed flaw and said that it remained stubborn even when they tweaked various analysis settings.'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the lulzy part is that it was -already- handled this way. only thing that will change (once anyone gets around to it) is a few lines in a spreadshit
assbot: Logged on 02-06-2015 22:08:48; trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/02/us-usa-security-surveillance-passage-idUSKBN0OI2I920150602 << oh good, they added slightly more bureaucratic procedure to the surveillance, and decided they'd outsource the data storage to the companies themselves...
decimation: yes, that's what the scanner says
decimation: I'm not sure if they also submitted the deps, but bitcoin weighs in at 16 million lines of code
asciilifeform: where is the output ?
BingoBoingo: Must collect arms in case defense of Theo becomes necessary
decimation: it might be mildly interesting to do so for the bitcoin reference implementation
decimation: apparently coverity allows you to submit your code/binary to their tool, will spit out potential bugs
asciilifeform: must inject microshit into the one protocol which had no microshittery, yes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that was the item, yes
BingoBoingo: OpenSSH is the OpenBSD ssh implementation
mircea_popescu: openssh is probably the most important contribution to software insecurity in history of computing.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-06-2015#1151853 << there wasn't that much there to extinguish in the first place.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yeah. Imma guessing that the product is replacement for the fixed factory mag which would hold 10 rounds instead of 5, but link leads nowhere comprehensible in browser.
decimation: americans can be herded like cattle through airports, tracked, tagged, and spied upon, but they really get pissed if you try to clamp down on loud/poorly operating cars/bikes
BingoBoingo: But I mean if the US Supreme court takes the Elonis case's legacy further... they will have to answer is drunk a Mens Rea
BingoBoingo: Fuck, I really am torn on whether ot not to approve spam comment for "mosin nagant 10 round magazine"
decimation: and generally the domestics involve drunks
decimation: BingoBoingo: ask any cop what the majority of his calls are, and generally the answer is 'domestics'
BingoBoingo: <decimation> 'drunks and domestic disputes' consume the vast majority of the court's time << Fuck you my case has only been a plaque in neighboring county's arteries for two years nao
decimation: at any rate, that papersplease.org is a pretty good blog, has much to say on the police state in the us, especially with with respect to flying
decimation: somehow they are in a hurry to get back to them, rather than thinking about the wider ramifications of the government's assertations
mircea_popescu: as the citizenry loses intellectual capacity and political standing, all its complaints look more and more like the results of drunken revelry and sexual stubbornness
mircea_popescu: a police court is the choice way to deal with drunks and domestic disputes.
decimation: more and more it seems like the judicial branch simply acts as a rubber stamp for the executive
decimation: a collection of police who decide to throw you in the gulag?
mircea_popescu: soon enough thewy had police courts.
decimation: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/46110 < " Findings of fact by the Secretary, Under Secretary, or Administrator, if supported by substantial evidence, are conclusive. "
shinohai: Awesum. I hold off because I'm lazy and waiting for the first one to sync
mod6: i wouldn't worry about it. these are experimental as of now. at a later time, they maybe included in a milestone release.
mod6: oh the 2 orphange ones?
mod6: Update: v0.5.3.1-RELEASE + patches { Orphanage Thermonuke } + { TX Orphanage Amputation } is at block: 335628
shinohai: Everyone wants to know when you guys are gonna release the Windoze version /s
mod6: so hopefully the guide I create will make it a bit easier. hopefully.
mod6: but it has this uclibc hardened stage3 that i'd like to try out as a platform from which we can utilize building and testing the R. I.
mod6: shinohai: oh, im creating a guide on how to build gentoo on a physical box. it seems that the handbook covers it mostly. except for me I had problems with some things.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 was working on getting one together but im sure he can use help << yeah, certainly on testing. i bought a pos box to use to build a physical gentoo box guide. i messed up something now grub is unhappy. I havne't been able to take a decent look at it since sunday morning.
BingoBoingo: I've been using it a while every version I used is the same local machine only deal that encrypts the derpy web passwords together in a single database file. Working on all the *nixen is a plus
punkman: I usually recommend Keepass to people that have been using a single password for the past 15 years
alphonse23_: but I've been using the internet for years now.
BingoBoingo: alphonse23_: Well you do now. The question is what are you going to do about it?
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: if someone else has a copy of your private key, whether because you let them generate it for you, or gave it up for storage for 'convenience', he can do anything which you can do. this ought to be obvious
williamdunne: alphonse23_: Its compromised if you a) generate your keys with them, or b) store your keys with them.
alphonse23_: I'm not sure. I was just trying out the service
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: the very idea is braindamaged
trinque: alphonse23_: all they have to do is ship you some javascript once that reads that and transmits it elsewhere
alphonse23_: well. they don't have my private key
trinque: alphonse23_: if someone other than you knows your private key, it is by definition not private
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: for people whom you will never meet, 'you' are the key. and nothing else.
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: there is a large and well-established network of public key servers. e.g., https://pgp.mit.edu and other sks
BingoBoingo: <alphonse23_> maybe though the issue is, where would one store a public key. on whose server << Ideally if you want people to find your public key you spray it all over, but especially spray it in venues associated with your identity.
alphonse23_: it would probably be like facebook, if it ever got popular. Which ever server became the most widespread.
alphonse23_: maybe though the issue is, where would one store a public key. on whose server
trinque: alphonse23_: ever heard "if it's free, you're the product" ?
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: it is 'user friendly' in the same way that a mousetrap is mouse-friendly
alphonse23_: it comes with a CLI app that lets you verify anyone on their servers
shinohai: It's nice and all, but I just don't see the advantage over plain gpg
williamdunne: shinohai: Exactly, you don't have to, to use the service :)
alphonse23_: that generate the primes right in front of you! :)
shinohai: Thats just it, I wouldn't be storing my keys there.
alphonse23_: if anyone wants them :)
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: if you let them generate keys for you, they have your private key. this ought to be elementarily obvious
williamdunne: Personally I like it, just don't store your keys there
asciilifeform: typically users of pgp/gpg upload their public keys there, and they can later be retrieved by anyone using a hash of the key
alphonse23_: I've never heard of the sks key server
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: instead we found that someone is uploading carefully modified versions of other people's keys to sks key server net
alphonse23_: find the NSA at work?
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: the idea is to find evidence of sabotaged implementations of rsa key generator.
alphonse23_: what's the purpose of all this?
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: http://doc.sagemath.org/html/en/thematic_tutorials/numtheory_rsa.html << worked examples
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: rsa is not especially complicated. you can understand the basic idea after an hour's study
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: 'checking them all', given current of foreseeable technology, would take several thousand years.
williamdunne: alphonse23_: This might help you understand what the 4096 means
alphonse23_: you could just check them all.
williamdunne: Brother calls him out
williamdunne: Two identical twin brothers at a festival, guy tries to cheat on his girlfriend with some bird
asciilifeform: alphonse23_: you still there?
trinque: BingoBoingo: dispute over the pod bay doors << bwhahahaha
BingoBoingo: NewLiberty: All depends on the machine and amps.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Kako's cat prolly typed assbot too. Either that or there is another dispute over the pod bay doors.
NewLiberty: $10/month is about equiv to the electricity cost of a 120v machine running 24/7 for a year
alphonse23_: does 4096 refer to the max size of one of the primes. or the primes multiplied togetheR?
trinque: the main benefit would be learning
trinque: tons of virtual hosting things out there
alphonse23_: do I have to purchase the server?
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Not that I know of, but dude wanted to know if it was trolling, so the solution is point them to the fount of data
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> no, you explain yourself! << For the record in tis situation you coulda just linked http://nosuchlabs.com/stats
jurov: i got some results from /explore but i have no idea about them yet
ben_vulpes: webify all the things!
trinque: they've webified that, but people have done it since ancient times
alphonse23_: I think I got it specificically for channels that I wanted to logged, that didn't have anyone doing it for them.
alphonse23_: but it depends if the channel is logged
alphonse23_: I decided I use IRC enough to pay for the service
alphonse23_: what do the logs say?
trinque: if the logs are any indication
shinohai: Yeah. I like the bash logs, I can even read those on android.
shinohai: I'm trying to catch up on the entire mailing list before I joined. :/
trinque: danielpbarron: looks like he explained himself rather thoroughly eh?
trinque: just tends to be the first thing that comes up
trinque: that's the one, yes
trinque: alphonse23_: note that this does not mean RSA in the abstract is broken
trinque: I was just about to ask the same :)
ascii_field: jurov: why would this affect the exponent (magic-98 set, rather than this latest one) and adjust the length field correctly ?
ascii_field: see the earlier linked image for which bytes were altered
jurov: ascii_field: neither url works
ascii_field: at this point it probably makes sense to churn the entire sks db for tuples of keys having same userid and date, and diff all said tuples.
ascii_field: but of course, as with the 32-bit 'magic set', the bottom 32 are the same, and this key would probably work in some winblows turd pgptron
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?search=jbollstrom%40gmail.com&op=index << tell-tale duplicate submission. but not the usual 32-bit walk thing
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: ascii_field: progress! this will cost far less. god bless the free market.
ascii_field: 'But instead of routinely feeding U.S. intelligence agencies such data, the companies would be required to turn it over only in response to a government request approved by the secretive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court.' << l0l, the same 'court' which consists of a remotely-operated rubber stamp for director of intel.
trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/06/02/us-usa-security-surveillance-passage-idUSKBN0OI2I920150602 << oh good, they added slightly more bureaucratic procedure to the surveillance, and decided they'd outsource the data storage to the companies themselves...
williamdunne: IIRC the logic was that they want to promote their development tools, and premium products such as SQL server by making their stuff more prolific
trinque: williamdunne: or maybe the post-oracle virtualbox approach
trinque: williamdunne: does for example the open source .net ship any opaque binary wads?
trinque: right, this looks just like how they approached the web. open standards? sure! sounds great
trinque: ^ this is exactly what I expect of their recent "great stuff"
trinque: williamdunne: nadella does seem to be doing his damnedest to right the ship
williamdunne: trinque: Honestly, recently I think they've been doing some great stuff.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field easy to fathom tho. one of those rotten cases where the exemption is louder than the thing it covers.
ascii_field: they go in circles all day...
ascii_field: check out the flight paths, e.g., http://imagebin.ca/231QwtGcRLMz/N912EXNYC.png http://imagebin.ca/231OJfk5LfsD/Baltimoreheavy.png
mircea_popescu: "Back when the NSA was routinely weakening commercial cryptography, their favorite technique was reducing the entropy of the random number generator."
mircea_popescu: you know, before the internet...
mircea_popescu: Instead of mixing in random data for the initial seed, the only "random" value that was used was the current process ID. On the Linux platform, the default maximum process ID is 32,768, resulting in a very small number of seed values being used for all PRNG operations.
mircea_popescu: On May 13th, 2008 Seems that the bug was introduced in September 2006.
punkman: granted, so many of these fuckups going on every year
punkman: who doesn't remember THE debian bug
mircea_popescu was busy at the time, apparently.
mircea_popescu: when the fuck was this ?!
jurov: unless someone here generates and donates their oauth key
punkman: seems like the guy found a bunch of people using keys generated while Debians OpenSSH could only make 32k distinct keys
mircea_popescu: ascii_field http://bookaspdf.com/the-sphinx-franklin-roosevelt-the-isolationists-and-the-road- to-world-war-ii.html
jurov: but with their ratelimiting, might take over a week
scoopbot_revived: The fruits of a classical education. http://www.contravex.com/2015/06/02/the-fruits-of-a-classical-education/
trinque: is there some time-warp scenario where american and comrade superman do battle?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
lobbes: ;;later tell WolfGoethe btw, you should get a cloak (ask on #freenode)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: mircea_popescu | http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-06-2015#1150865 << check out the sensitized trinque. does portland suck or something ? :D << as portland has nothing, is nothing, the empty vessels here mostly define themselves as *not* the other empty vessels.
lobbes: 'From September, 1939, until January, 1940, all films that could be considered anti-Nazi were banned by the Hays Office.'
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: link to the 1939 thing ?
assbot: Logged on 02-06-2015 15:03:12; mike_c: cazalla: I'm going to try dual-booting another box of mine and see if i can get eulora/ubuntu going. I'll post my step-by-step if it works
mircea_popescu: U.S. ambassador to England, Joseph Kennedy, also told the studios to stop making pro-British and anti-German films, as British defeat was imminent and there was no point in America holding out alone: 'With England licked, the party's over.'
assbot: Logged on 02-06-2015 19:14:23; mircea_popescu: myeah. a b-a os, in the shape of an usable open source something without idiocy/usgity baked in and with decent defaults so that people can install it without dedicating their life to it is ever more required.
jurov: so i'm asking to upload the original as attachemnt
jurov: it may be a problem to get the text back so that it verifies
jurov: everyone just copies the clearsigned test and pastes it to wordpress
pete_dushenski: i'd guess that something in the order of 30% of deeds are correctly submitted and accepted on the 1st try.
jurov: why no one is hosting .txt version of stuff themselves?
hanbot: thanks pete. damned if i ever manage it correctly on the first try
scoopbot_revived: Line betting on BitBet, May 2015 http://thewhet.net/2015/line-betting-on-bitbet-may-2015/
Naphex: and some other gimmicks :P
Naphex: doing the launch
mircea_popescu: they have no fucking idea what to do wioti it
chetty: everyone must have a 'smartphone', how else they gonna keep track of you?
pete_dushenski kinda liked the text messages 45 min before events.
mircea_popescu: myeah. a b-a os, in the shape of an usable open source something without idiocy/usgity baked in and with decent defaults so that people can install it without dedicating their life to it is ever more required.
mircea_popescu: debian used to work. then it got packaged into ubuntu, and the remainder was shot in the head with systemd crapolade.
williamdunne: The only reason Ubuntu is nice, is that everything is packageized
mircea_popescu: mod6 was working on getting one together but im sure he can use help
diana_coman: well yes, that's what I did for the moment: got an older version
diana_coman: the reason for which I am currently seriously searching for some OS to have on my machine, as I can't stand ubuntu anymore
williamdunne: I chuckled http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/386el0/this_post_is_not_about_the_block_size_limit/
diana_coman: yeah, I have the misfortune of having enough windows experience to know the famous "cure"
williamdunne: Traditionally the response is "have you tried turning it off and on again"
diana_coman: neah, it waits a bit and then it "will let you know" when it finds one :)))
diana_coman: I've got eulora to compile under windows 8.1, but then the client quits: "psclient has stopped working. Windows is checking for a solution to the problem..."
mircea_popescu: very well made, at that, so allow me to be the first one to clap.
assbot: Logged on 02-06-2015 11:30:01; jurov: dunno how that could be easily fixed. since mircea recoiled in horror from the "proxied php" setup, he can't easily split tittylick.php into other process with higher priority