Landgull: Meh - fair point, but I mean they have very limited ability to screw with people who are just trying to live their lives.
assbot: Logged on 03-06-2015 04:56:21; Landgull: And the government is owned by the US here, but the government here doesn't have any actual power.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152634 << nuttiest thing i ever heard. so go into the secret service headquarters, kick the boss out of his office and play quake on his desktop for an evening.
Landgull: Either way, a couple other people have caught onto similar ideas and have gotten pretty far ahead of me by now, but I put in a patent app a while back and with any luck I'll be able to license those out when I get done with it.
Landgull: I'd say if you're dating a girl who would allow you to not go to something like that, you're dating the wrong woman.
mircea_popescu: beware of women affraid to travel and fuck strangers. they make horrible wives.
Landgull: It's for the best, the more I've learned about the "start up community" the more they make me want to gouge out my own eyes.
Landgull: Patents are in the process. And yeah, it was the girlfriend - not married yet, but she has his balls just the same.
mircea_popescu: the partner i mean
Landgull: Heh. Was a startup I was working on, using black soldier fly larvae to convert organic waste into biodiesel, fish feed, and fertilizer. Actually got it into Startup Chile, but my business partner refused to go to Chile and cost me the grant.
Landgull: I'm just some guy who found this place a few weeks ago, read the logs for a while, and decided that I'd like to join the community here, if it'll have me.
Vexual: at least 800k missing, and all the vexual sundies add app to an obscenely close number to the allwoable sundries
Landgull: As for the rest: if you're in line at a slaughterhouse, your best move is always to try to get away, even if you risk being shot in the process. Uncertain success is better than certain failure, and life in the US has become so intolerable that I'd rather take my chances with an uncertain future than with a certain one.
mircea_popescu: the us would be infinitely better if instead of "raising awareness" the impotent twerps would be busy accepting rape into their lives.
Vexual: next time theyll sitck to assob, lol
mircea_popescu: what's the idea, someone'll indemnify you, come hell or high water, because they deeply care ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152567 << i wonder what should be happening in one's head who "owns" real estate in random country but employs no army there.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152529 << for the local equivalent of checking someone else's privilege for them, yeah.
mircea_popescu: Landgull the future hears you and says "your cheap psycho-skullduggery holds no power here".
assbot: Logged on 03-06-2015 04:26:29; asciilifeform: Landgull: i'd rather be boiled for soap
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152520 << this and http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152525 make for excellent reading. alf's developing the delivery skills of a character in a tenessee williams play.
Landgull: If a few dissidents flee, what of it? They were dissidents anyway.
Landgull: It would, though. The US learned from the USSR: you're better off making people believe that you'll be murdered and raped and strangled if you go anywhere and leave the hotel. It keeps people in line much more effectively than a travel ban would.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152507 << amusingly, the best pay for teaching greek was after the city collapsed
assbot: Logged on 03-06-2015 03:48:44; Landgull: They can't ban flights in and out of the US, that would strangle the beast.
mircea_popescu: "we joined bitcoin because we didn't like the banks so please take our bitcoin and put it in a bank"
mircea_popescu: the masquerade where "people" ie, social media astroturf is misrepresented as being in favour of this atrocity...
Landgull: I don't think they can keep fighting physics and math forever.
mircea_popescu: it will self-defeat once the last policeman is buried in the coffin of the last politician.
Landgull: So doesn't that mean the 20mb block will self-defeat?
mircea_popescu: meaning that the average server your average internaut can't afford would barely keep up with the chain.
mircea_popescu: back when it was comissioned coupla years ago it blazed through them at the rate of 7-10 seconds per.
mircea_popescu: in sadder news, a reasonably recent 8 core server is doing block verification at the rate of 28 seconds per.
Landgull: I'm not trying to claim that this is some kind of paradise, it's absolutely not, and you have to give up a lot of the "first world" comforts.
Vexual: fuck furn around here and the shits got maggots
Landgull: If the bacteria won't eat it...
Landgull: Which sounds like a bad thing, but I'd like to know why it is that chicken rots much faster in Ukraine than in the US...
Landgull: Well, they're still firm, because they're fresh. But you have to go to the market every day or two because the food goes bad quickly.
Landgull: The reason tomatoes are pink instead of red is they're heterozygous for RIN, or ripening-inhibition gene to make them ship better.
Landgull: People from the villages around Lviv bring in what they grow and sell it to you. No mass-produced GMO rin tomatoes.
Landgull: The food is better than anything I've ever had before.
Landgull: If you actually go shop at the market and take public transport, as opposed to walling yourself off in some hotel.
Landgull: For the next 2.5 months.
Landgull: It was more of a quip than a serious comment - but I know a number of people who spend their time yelling at the box because of what obama/the republicans/the gays/the church did today.
Landgull: Moving. The fact that people still pay for cable is proof that the second isn't for everyone.
Landgull: And if the western finance system does come crashing down, you're going to be better off in poor countries (granted that you can live like a local) because they're used to things like that happening. USistan will devolve into utter insanity.
Landgull: I'd rather there were a safe, sane, stable country where I could go, build a business, and have a normal life, but that's not going to exist until btc finishes what it has started.
Landgull: I like learning languages, and I like buying my food in an open air market from the person who grew it.
Vexual: how much is the chapagne agian?!?!
Landgull: Same thing with the women. If you go to Ukraine, find English speaking girls, and flash your passport and cash around, you're going to have a bad day.
Landgull: Sure. And it's why you do need to actually integrate. I.E. learn the language, get to know people, etc.
asciilifeform: Landgull: this cuts both ways. if locals start charging you $1000/mo for the great privilege of your flat not being torched, the officials -also- will not care.
Landgull: The babusya/babushkas here have more power than Poroshenko does.
Landgull: Decimation: You're imagining that governments in the rest of the world work like the US government. I.E. the laws on the books matter. They can pass a law saying just about anything they want, but they don't have the means to enforce it and they have a population that is used to just ignoring government stupidity instead of bending over.
asciilifeform cannot comment on the specifics of Landgull's case here, but the overall prognosis of americans who go abroad 'for the gurlz' is dire
Landgull: Ascii: met the girl in Canada, she pays for half of everything, and she's not interested in ever going back to the west, because it's too insane.
asciilifeform: and re: their sanity once you renounce your u.s. passport formally
asciilifeform: Landgull: get back to us re: the girls once you have $0
Landgull: Ascii: I won't disagree with you (decimation, you're wrong.) that most of the world is currently under the USgov thumb, to some degree. But you are still better off in an outlying part of it, where the control is less potent, and has much less influence on your daily life (like, in terms of being able to buy food that doesn't make you sick, and being able to date girls who aren't insane) than you are sitting in their back yard
asciilifeform: mats: or the abundance of buggy legit-signed drivers to dynamically load and exploit
asciilifeform: mats: considering the ease of bypassing uac on all known winblows, sorta academic
decimation: you are part of the greater-usaia that has no pretense of rights
Landgull: ...for the last time, I'm not saying "Hey guys, you should move to Ukraine." or that I'm moving to Ukraine for that matter - I prefer South America on the whole. I'm saying that if you want personal liberty, and to not live in an insane culture, you can actually leave and be better off.
asciilifeform: it is not enough for the defensive weapon to make attack unprofitable, or even suicidal. it must be -unthinkable-
asciilifeform: Landgull: 'right to self-determination' comes from these gadgets and nowhere else.
asciilifeform: anything short of this, is just switching the selection of imperial rapist
asciilifeform: and submarines to sail them on.
asciilifeform: Landgull: any flea-bitten village can become an independent country. all it needs to do is learn to manufacture ballistic rockets and nukes by the thousands.
decimation: because they suck, and cannot achieve it
asciilifeform: decimation: i will add that usg works tirelessly to help -them- as well 'wake up' to their 'ancient and proud cultural identity and thirst for independence'
decimation: hell, so do the apache in arizona
decimation: my point is that there are plenty of autonomous oblasts inside ru which have similiar 'ethnic and liguistic' claims
asciilifeform: and to avoid rape & pillage, rather than 'to be own country', which is really a 19th c. psychiatric disease
Landgull: Except the people here have been fighting to be their own country since before the US became an empire.
asciilifeform: and i'd like to learn of the ancient and proud race of south korea.
Landgull: I also think that Crimea and eastern UA shouldn't probably be part of the same country as western and central UA.
asciilifeform: next Landgull will have us consider the pakistanis or taiwanese 'an ancient and own race and culture'
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah but what about all the turkic and mongoliod autonomous regions
Landgull: But the Ukrainians are an actual race and culture - yes they're similar to the Poles, the Hungarians, and the Russians, but whether or not they're a biological race or just a cultural and linguistic one, they've a strong sense of national identity and a strong desire for national self-determination.
BingoBoingo pictures Sean Connery's home in Hunt for the Red October
asciilifeform: decimation: when most foreigners think of ru, they picture something roughly like the duchy of moscovy circa 1300s
Landgull: Ascii: holodomor and resettling of russians during the USSR definitely effected the country in a big way, demographically, such that "historically Ukrainian" lands aren't really Ukrainian anymore.
Landgull: ...except I can look at people and tell who is Russian and who is Ukrainian. And again: I'm not saying Ukraine is the mecca to run to, I'm saying that getting out of the US to somewhere that is saner, (and yes, UA is saner than the US) is worth the effort.
decimation: the idea that western ukraine exists as a separate race or language is hilarious
asciilifeform: decimation: phun phact: 'u kraina' ~= 'on the hinterlands'
asciilifeform: when the ukrs came, changed the street signs, and forced their chimp dialect to be taught in schools, my folks packed up for usa.
asciilifeform: Landgull: i happen to have been born there.
Landgull: Most of the things you're saying are what I thought before I actually got on an airplane and came here.
decimation: of course, as moldbug said, actual nazis would ahve been horrified by these guys
Landgull: As for the nazi issue: Yes, Bandera and UPA are considered cultural heroes here, and yes they co-operated with the germans, because they thought it was their best chance for an independent Ukraine.
asciilifeform: Landgull: if they had learned to manufacture so much as an alarm clock, much less airplane or nuke, they would be somewhere on the road to where 'independence' is thinkable outside of a lunatic asylum
Landgull: Unlike the USgov with a nebulous idea of "we want to spread democracy guyz" they actually know what they're fighting for.
Landgull: These people have been fighting for actual independence, from everyone, for over 100 years. They've fought poles, they've fought germans, they've fought russians.
decimation: then mutineers are shot?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: Landgull: they're bringing in u.s. mercenaries. will be many good lulz.
Landgull: Yeah, but most of those soldiers are extremely hostile to the UAgov at this point. It's more likely to be paid for by the UAarmy than the RUarmy.
asciilifeform: Landgull: besides, they did organize very well to shell a few million ru folks in east ua day and night. that will be paid for eventually.
Landgull: And I'm not suggesting Lviv as the destination of the century - like I said, I'm here to meet the girlfriend's family.
BingoBoingo: <Landgull> Plus, as I said, the USgov owns the UAgov, but unlike the US where the government really effects your life, the government here is a mass of incompetent bureaucracy without any serious ability to organize anything. << Kinda why Phillipines is on my exit candidate list. Massively orchish and USG proving proving ground for cultural failures.
decimation: no other parts of usg to fiddle
Landgull: Plus, as I said, the USgov owns the UAgov, but unlike the US where the government really effects your life, the government here is a mass of incompetent bureaucracy without any serious ability to organize anything.
asciilifeform: because the dirty work can be done with local hands, and bureaucratic niceties are 100% optional
Landgull: If they want you, they'll find you wherever you go. But it takes a lot more wanting to deal with finding you somewhere else than it does to find you when you're wrapped up with a bow for them.
asciilifeform: 'prison is like the grave, room can be found for everyone' (ru proverb)
BingoBoingo: But I am terribly resigned to being low on the cue
decimation: generally no-knocks are done of folks who give the cops some reason to think they will be a threat
asciilifeform: Landgull: the queue must be long, i'm still waiting to be gassed, give'em some time
Landgull: Ascii: There is no actual food available in the US unless you grow it yourself. Seriously. I didn't think it was that bad until I ate real food. As for the flashbangs: people get no-knocked all the time. You're the ones saying they're going to send death-squads to Ukraine after me, but you're not worried about them doing the same to you from in their backyard?
BingoBoingo: <Landgull> If you just don't want flashbangs coming in your window and poisonous food, then you can have a much better life outside of the US. << I have yet to seem flashbangs tyvm. I just has a single FBI agent and single treasury agent sweating on my front lawn like the hambeasts they were.
asciilifeform tries to recall the last time americans threw grenade in his window
Landgull: If you just don't want flashbangs coming in your window and poisonous food, then you can have a much better life outside of the US.
Landgull: If you're going to declare yourself an enemy of the USgov and be a real threat to them, they'll find you, sure.
decimation: aye, most of the 'resources' he complains about are spent feeding prisoners
asciilifeform: y'know, for all the things said about american prison, at least no one is compelled to be involved in the growing of food there.
decimation: how many people in that village will know about the foreigner?
Landgull: My girlfriend is from here. Her family likes me. If it were THAT dire, I'd go run away to their village and help them grow food.
asciilifeform: Landgull: if you have enough of these to last your entire natural life, we're happy for you
asciilifeform: Landgull: other thing is, if you rely on electronic banks in any way whatsoever, they'll simply zero your accounts
Landgull: Sure. But I'd expect your chances are better in a country where the government is essentially non-existent than they are somewhere that they know where you are and can knock on your door.
decimation: and to monetize bitcoin is to destroy the entire usd financial 'system'
Landgull: If bitcoin starts replacing fiat, the USgov isn't going to have the resources to come after you.
Landgull: Do you have enough money for them to notice you exist?
Landgull: Sure, they will. What kind of trouble are you looking to make?
decimation: Landgull: the thing is, if you make trouble and usg wants you, the derpy local government will please their masters
trinque: decimation: note the hyphen, not a slash
asciilifeform: trinque: they exist but generally you gotta be ethnic
Landgull: And the government is owned by the US here, but the government here doesn't have any actual power.
Landgull: Before I came here, I would have said the same thing.
Landgull: You don't want to get out of the US?
asciilifeform: Landgull: then you have a catastrophic misconception of what i would like to do.
decimation: or how it worked out for the anti-chinese vietnamese
decimation: or how it worked out for the anti-asad syrians
decimation: the red army was famous for putting machine gunners behind the troops, for encouragement
Landgull: Ascii: 1) I can buy a plane ticket somewhere else if a real invasion happened. 2) If the Russians came into the Ukrainian speaking part of Ukraine, they'd be fighting a massive guerrilla war...they're succeeding in Donetsk and Luhansk because the people there are Russians and have a Russian identity.
asciilifeform: don't imagine they won't.
asciilifeform: Landgull: there's a couplea million folks a few 100 km east of you who will have your head on a pike if you stick around.
Landgull: But seriously, it takes 10 minutes of talking to actual Ukrainians walking around here to see that they haven't bought USgov propaganda properly. As much as the information net wants you to believe it's the same everywhere, it isn't.
asciilifeform: decimation: consider posting a pic of the insides
asciilifeform: a healthy tradition of violence is quite possibly the only thing u.s. has left going for it.
Landgull: Well, the Ukrainians have thrown more molotovs at their government than anyone else recently.
Landgull: Most governments don't have the kind of resources to do US style insanity.
decimation: Landgull: the point is that when they want to throw you in the gulag, nicities like 'we liked americans' mean jack shit
Landgull: Plenty hate the American government.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Indeed. We are limited to the border swamps
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the only reason you and i even can afford food is that he doesn't need all of it
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: this is the reason you can't buy so much as a square metre in, e.g., patagonia. that is, if you and i can afford it, ted turner can afford 1,000,000+ of it and at 1000x bid
Landgull: Ascii: No-one really hates Americans, unless you're the socks with sandals type.
asciilifeform: (rest assured there is a list)
asciilifeform: Landgull: until the city is liberated and they shoot everyone who ever held u.s. passport
decimation: indeed. then your only choice is to live under a stump like that one guy
Landgull: I guess it depends on what pieces of life you consider living. I'm not arguing that it's easier to get out of the US, if it were easier it would be done.
asciilifeform: no just pointing out the limitations of 'move, shave some zeroes from your expenses'
Landgull: Fair points as well. And I'm not suggesting Lviv as a specific destination, I'm here meeting the girlfriend's family - though it's really quite a nice city.
decimation: sure, dollar pollution is high in the us, but that's where I'm stuck. like ascii, my wot is here
Landgull: So, if you sold those skills freelance, for $100 an hour, you could work for 10 hours a month and live very comfortably in most parts of the world.
Landgull: Fair enough. All I know is that I'd plow fields to avoid going back to the US.
asciilifeform: Landgull: i must refer you to the logs. it is difficult to describe
Landgull: Well, what do you do in the USA now? And Putin has no interest in Lviv.
decimation: let us know when Putin the Great asks for german colonists to come back to odessa
Landgull: Well, if you're smart enough to know how to allocate memory in C, you can find a way to earn $500 a month anywhere in the world.
BingoBoingo: <Landgull> I'm in Lviv, Ukraine right now. I can walk down to the market and buy a kilo of fresh strawberries for the local equivalent of $.50, and a bottle of vodka for $2.50 << Welcome to my back yard
Landgull: I'm in Lviv, Ukraine right now. I can walk down to the market and buy a kilo of fresh strawberries for the local equivalent of $.50, and a bottle of vodka for $2.50
asciilifeform: Landgull: i'd rather be boiled for soap
BingoBoingo: Landgull: Come to scenic southern illinois!
Landgull: Sure. But there are still plenty of parts of the world where the food supply comes from within 100 miles of the city.
asciilifeform: Landgull: when nato dies its long-overdue death, cometh the bulldozer
Landgull: Fair enough. I haven't been to Georgia yet, I'm hoping to visit sometime in the next few months.
Landgull: CIS countries aren't exactly paradise, but if you want out, there are plenty of ways out.
Landgull: Bingo: Go to Georgia - your visitor's visa is good for 360 days out of 365 (take a trip across a border to anywhere, or just give someone a $10 bribe) and English is becoming the new state language, replacing Russian, so native English speakers are in demand.
Landgull: Well, by the time the US is done, you should have found some way to integrate yourself into the local community.
asciilifeform: trinque: another solution is to discover cold fusion, interstellar engine, or time travel
trinque: that and coffee wake me up in the morning
BingoBoingo: My nothing consists of an ongoing misdemeanor legal case that constrains my travel (2 years nao) and older relatives I help to keep out of the nursing home.
asciilifeform: Landgull: how do you plan to get there? glider ?
Landgull: Fair enough. I established Paraguayan legal residency a while back as a way to 1) have legal residence in a 0% tax area and 2) have a guaranteed place I'm allowed to go if the world suddenly decides that it doesn't really want Americans hanging about.
trinque: my life's pretty good, but as long as I'm here I'm no better than a happy citizen of the reich
Landgull: If you're avoiding the US, you want to establish at the very least legal permanent residence, and proof of it somewhere else, for the tax exemption.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if every time i went to buy a quart of milk the teller asked me what time it is...
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152425 << aha, the 'xorg' thing. shitgnomatics pure & simple
assbot: Logged on 03-06-2015 03:25:03; mircea_popescu: "If your system's date and time are too far off (typically by months or years,) then it may prevent Portage from properly downloading source tarballs. "
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152414 << portage fetches many things from version control systems of various sorts (cvs, svn, git, mercurial, etc, ..., etc) and these typically barf when clock is wildly off
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Doing dumbell rows to get the strength to get to chinups/pullups. In the interim cutting weight to make that stuff easier.
mod6: gabriel_laddel: ok thanks for the heads up
BingoBoingo: In other news, training to get into shape for boxing training is progressing nicely. 80 pushups yesterday... May be able to try a boxing gym next year. Would be nice if I could line it up with USian exodus
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel if you're going to be doing code preservation you prolly want to hash and deed like i did on the eulora binaries for nvidia drivers.
gabriel_laddel: mod6: fyi, if you follow that funtoo install guide and don't use the masamune-specific replacements you'll end up with a binary kernel (funtoo has already started decaying) - make sure you use the KERNEL section of system.html if nothing else
mircea_popescu: so they just throw things at it. "Can't hurt, right ?" "test more things"
mircea_popescu: retarded people who do not belong in front of a computer try their darndest to "make it secure" but have no fucking idea what that is
decimation: but nevertheless someone thought they should program a check for the expiration date on the pki cert
decimation: key expiration is kinda like the 'colored coins' idea
mircea_popescu: key expiring has nothing to do with verifying material they produced tho
mircea_popescu: all-the-wrong-things (tm)
decimation: heh, well gpg has the same issue
mircea_popescu: nu-uh, gotta pki the shit.
mircea_popescu: decimation it's due to the cert business.
mod6: gabriel_laddel: werd. it /seems/ right. but like I said, maybe another look will tell the tale. i'll be checking it out more tomorrow.
gabriel_laddel: mod6: I'd compare your fdisk -l /dev/sda with the contents of /etc/fstab
mod6: i basically created a livecd, did everything as instructed through the gentoo handbook.
mod6: well, after an `ls` at the grub prompt anyway.
mod6: but when i boot up, i get "grub2> " prompt and then shit like this: "(hd0) (hd0,msdos1) (hd0,msdos2) (hd0,msdos3) (hd0,msdos4) (fd0)"
mircea_popescu: it's just... why the fuck would the color of your blouse decide whether it rains that day
mircea_popescu: motherfucker.
mircea_popescu: "If your system's date and time are too far off (typically by months or years,) then it may prevent Portage from properly downloading source tarballs. "
gabriel_laddel: but if mod6 is in need of something that works, well - there it is
gabriel_laddel: hence, I reccomend waiting on the automated install
gabriel_laddel: mod6: I have a *working* funtoo install guide, which is for all intents and purposes the same as gentoo
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152192 << there still doesn't exist an eulora gentoo guide, for instance.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-06-2015#1152160 gpg --encrypt --armor -r <yourname> hit enter then put whatever passwords in there, hit ctrl-d and save the output.
gabriel_laddel: re:not rewriting code, the story of CMUCL and its transformation into SBCL is quite pertinent
decimation: shoving shit into the lower layers of the conceptual stack just ends up causing pain and suffering
decimation: yeah, people need to read the 'end-to-end principle'