pete_dushenski: i had my credit card number lifted in chicago a few years back, sekoority centre called me to ask about a few purchases, which i hadn't made, they cancelled the card on the spot and refunded me the charges.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i have not personally scammed in this particular way, but watched colleagues deal with the fallout of 'xxx bought a house in your name'
pete_dushenski: on the consumer side, there's little need for concern either as it's assumed (since it's been demonstrated in the past) that the scamee will be made whole
pete_dushenski: ah yes, the 'low barrier to entry' policy
asciilifeform: hence also the utter lack of meaningful asymmetric crypto in bank cards, etc.
asciilifeform: ultimately usg 'department of plenty' ~really~ wants money to get borrowed. whether you in particular like to borrow money or not. if some 'helpful' nigerian can do it in your name, so much the better from their pov.
asciilifeform: from the pov of the chumps, the more sinister aspect, as always, is the non-cryptographic concept of identity used in nato reich, where folks can actually impersonate you if they know a handful of basic biographical facts
pete_dushenski: as if there were a magical 'great wall' that kept out the mongols behind their keyboards
assbot: Logged on 15-06-2015 15:09:25; pete_dushenski: " When a retired 51-year-old military man disclosed in a U.S. security clearance application that he had a 20-year affair with his former college roommate's wife, it was supposed to remain a secret between him and the government."
assbot: Logged on 15-06-2015 15:22:49; punkman: "Weird 64MB favicon.ico turning out to be a TAR backup of the whole WP site, downloaded by every browser passing by... "
assbot: Logged on 15-06-2015 15:17:55; pete_dushenski: "I’m also worried they are going to identify agents in law enforcement." << exactly the plot of 'spy', this.
asciilifeform: evidently the derp did this on own free will.
assbot: Logged on 15-06-2015 15:11:29; pete_dushenski: "The SF 86 form, which is 127-pages long, is extraordinarily comprehensive and intrusive. "
asciilifeform: and without own computer or just about anything but clothes on back
asciilifeform: as in, gotta actually show up there
asciilifeform: jurov: not exactly. they make you work a full shift, for instance.
asciilifeform: jurov: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-06-2015#1164365 << bit of a contradiction here? 'good job' is precisely where there is a minimum of hours-doing-things/unit-of-pay
pete_dushenski: "Management “wanted a creative building MMO [massively multiplayer online-game] with a promise of zero penises seen,” tweeted Megan Fox, a developer who worked on the project,"
pete_dushenski: heh. 'lego universe' is the un-eulora.
pete_dushenski: "In 2010, LEGO unleashed LEGO Universe, a massive, multiplayer game where builders of all ages could create whatever they wanted on their own digital plots. Well, almost anything: LEGO didn’t want any of the players to endow its online world with penises. After all, it was meant to be a kid-friendly place in which phalluses had no role—even its mini-fig citizens were dickless."
punkman: "Weird 64MB favicon.ico turning out to be a TAR backup of the whole WP site, downloaded by every browser passing by... "
pete_dushenski: only solution is to put landwhale deskjockeys into the field !
pete_dushenski: "I’m also worried they are going to identify agents in law enforcement." << exactly the plot of 'spy', this.
pete_dushenski: seriously, what are the chances of this NOT happening.
pete_dushenski: turns out that when you spill the beans to a piece of paper in a drawer, someone can go in and read that piece of paper !
pete_dushenski: ""It's kind of scary that somebody could know that much about us," said a former senior U.S. diplomat, pointing out the ability to use such data to impersonate an American official online, obtain passwords and plunder bank accounts."
pete_dushenski: by the chinese!
pete_dushenski: of course, the database has been... hacked.
pete_dushenski: "The SF 86 form, which is 127-pages long, is extraordinarily comprehensive and intrusive. "
pete_dushenski: " The man had kept the affair secret from his wife for two decades before disclosing it on the government's innocuously named Standard Form 86 (SF 86), filled out by millions of Americans seeking security clearances. "
pete_dushenski: " When a retired 51-year-old military man disclosed in a U.S. security clearance application that he had a 20-year affair with his former college roommate's wife, it was supposed to remain a secret between him and the government."
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell BingoBoingo aha yes. wd there !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
cazalla: they also call it olive herb down under
cazalla: i'm feeling so good i even banged the missus twice and here i thought it was cause i long ago grew tired of her, must've been the booze after all
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-06-2015#1163790 <<< c'mon, i even dropped it back to once a month instead of the twice monthly update.. i find the mining diff stuff interesting in anycase
punkman: "The .tar file must be encrypted with the static key /tmp/.charlie. Yes, that's the actual key - the software passes the wrong argument to OpenSSL. -K is used to pass the keyfile instead of -kfile, meaning that the key is the path of the keyfile rather than the contents"
punkman: gotta give them a scrub, and check for casualties
Vexual: do you wash them?
Vexual: id rather a box of ducks to be hosnest, but id eat it
punkman: no the box gets pretty gross
Vexual: do they prefer dampper, or just flour?
Vexual: what do they eat? old lettuce?
Vexual: i dont think theyd grow here, never see wild ones
punkman: fry them with garlic and rosemary
punkman: not too often, I got a box of them fattening up though
Vexual: ill ask the asians for a tropicaal quqivalent
punkman: then you gotta buy some seeds
assbot: ONN Exclusive: One-On-One Interview With God - The Onion - America's Finest News Source ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ie5mul )
funkenstein_: while we're here, http://www.theonion.com/video/onn-exclusive-one-on-one-interview-with-god-37236
trinque: so then going back to the "state", if the "state" is this, then a "state" is *not* the aggregate of agreements made by free men
trinque: decimation: I've heard it called "stealing your stolen from" around here, and it's exactly on the mark
trinque: the destruction of the language in order to convince slaves they are not slaves costs far too much
decimation: trinque: note that many people would replace orthodox Christianity with some kind of warmed-over socialism, that doesn't make their socialism Christianity (as loudly as they might protest otherwise)
trinque: I might revise that further to "I shall force you to behave as though there were such a thing as a social contract."
trinque: when someone says "there is a social contract" that's just a backdoor way of saying "you shall accept the implications of there being a social contract"
trinque: or any other such brainwashing which precludes my own decisionmaking
Vexual: oysters cost 0 if you find them
funkenstein_: I'm not sure what the social contract is. As you point out, I didn't sign it
trinque: the social contract is religious bullshit
trinque: to state the obvious
trinque: if you presuppose my involvement in some agreement between other people, you've presupposed me right out of the conversation in both cases!
decimation: I would probably setting for a 'modern state' that did its best to cultivate the quality of its human potential, rather than treating it like an infinite resource
decimation: sure, but that's a distinction between 'a state' and 'the modern structure' (as moldbug would put it)
trinque: decimation: one important distinction may be that whereas the modern state seeks to make humans fungible, to normalize them according to some standard
funkenstein_: true indeed. people talk about "the government" as if that meant something specific.. so many out there
trinque: anyhow. it's true that anywhere humans gather and interact structures will emerge
funkenstein_: malcolm x says the state becomes necessary when one needs to separate those who have from those who have not
decimation: note that this doesn't imply 'modern state' is the only possibly solution
trinque: neither can I
decimation: trinque: no doubt, I can imagine lots of other structures, but I just don't see how groups of people who need to do business together can get away from some kind of central coordinating mechanism for certain tasks
decimation: trinque: yes, and the implication quickly becomes "I sit in my mud hut with my ak and you sit in yours"
decimation: if the land is unclaimed, how do you build a house?
funkenstein_: what do you mean someone has to claim the land?
decimation: but someone has to claim the land, and people need a place to sleep
funkenstein_: what is the alternative to slavery?
trinque: in the absence of a central authority dictating that there shall be a fire dept, I wouldn't expect that the need to put out fires would vanish along with it
decimation: sure, but in the end they all involve a peice of actual real estate with an actual physical structure
trinque: there are a number of ways to come at that particular problem
decimation: if there were an obvious alternative it probably would have happened already?
assbot: Logged on 14-06-2015 17:31:18; mircea_popescu: moreover, there are hard to miss parallels between this entire "saving the state" interventionism of the us coallition
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=14-06-2015#1163996 < but what is the altnerative to the state?
asciilifeform: 'Shortly thereafter, officers who had been working undercover to catch citizens attempting to self-serve, swarmed in to arrest the mostly nude man but not before Mapes took down 3 of the 6 officers by himself.'
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: "...consider that Bitcoin has died 71 times, and therefore is continuously reborn in the psychic reality of the public."
jurov: "At this point we can consider... Scientology is a tax-exempt religion. Why not Bitcoin?" ahahaha never made the connection before
jurov: and see what? that finding the right cdecls.h spot is in fact tantric exercise :)
jurov: the last link i posted
jurov: "Also, programmers can also attest to the fact that long-term coding is very much a tantric, mind-altering endeavor."
mircea_popescu: aaannnnd in other news, http://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mabpbcSKvW1rem3mwo1_500.gif
funkenstein_: the turtle i mean
funkenstein_: ben_vulpes, it's sudo apt-get turtles-dev all the way down
ben_vulpes: now if anyone can tell me what the ever loving hell that actua.
BingoBoingo: Fake words are also the hardest to spell
gribble: The operation succeeded.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell pete_dushenski startup spacing issue corrected. Distinct hazard of staing into the idiocy is contact transmission of derp.
ben_vulpes: and yes asciilifeform it is "rusted solid" on the inside.
ben_vulpes: thanks for the advice all
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: Terry Gilliam is obsessed with them
mircea_popescu: (the word has a particular slang meaning in english, a certain sort of beer drinking, saber rattling british citizen.)
mircea_popescu: the similarities are overpowering. both groups are grossly acultural, clinging to ridiculously simplified worldviews and models of thought, and pretending to a legitimacy and importance that is both absent in the field and justified ideally and historically only.
mircea_popescu: if anyone can explain the difference between "for king and country" of the blips of the 1800s and "for democracy1`11`11" of the redditards of today...
mircea_popescu: yes, some symbolic "states", about as related to historical states as the queen of england's to historical britsh monarchs will survive
mircea_popescu: i think it's liable to go the same place - state's exactly as dead today as monarchy was in 1803
mircea_popescu: and the numerous coallitions of defeated european monarchs trying to save monarchies from napoleon
mircea_popescu: moreover, there are hard to miss parallels between this entire "saving the state" interventionism of the us coallition
trinque: and I wonder how long the other players will put up with our paranoid, incoherent moves against them
mircea_popescu: one should really stop and think for a moment if he notices that the opposing players eschew "opportunities" he himself wouldn't.
mircea_popescu: maybe the russians would want
trinque: they're going to have to pull off "laptop" first
jurov: yes, i have read about e-ink tattoo. but all such things fall into uncanny valley together with google glass
mircea_popescu: anyway, i see a point to actually signifying tattoos, those queen of spades ankle stuff, or the russian cat or whatever.
assbot: Why does the C preprocessor interpret the word "linux" as the constant "1"? - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1L8BIgh )
mats: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19210935/why-does-the-c-preprocessor-interpret-the-word-linux-as-the-constant-1
mircea_popescu: trinque the lol part is, how often the tattood were in fact free agents or otherwise involved.
mircea_popescu: you know, the one gorgo "decyphered" ?
mircea_popescu: actually the only tattoo i ever saw that i thought was cool,
mircea_popescu has seen plenty of "property of X" crotch-and-other-places
asciilifeform: could have something to do with the cargo-cult, 'stotting' aspect of advertising per se
asciilifeform: i've wondered what kept various floodgates of shit, hypothesized in fiction of the past, shut. e.g., 'rent-free' flats with walls covered in stomach-churning blinking advertisements 24/7, pensions in return for forehead tatoos of 'coca cola', etc.
asciilifeform: they only store a few thou. of sequence
mircea_popescu: you are aware, yes ? point of life for the genotype driven is reproducing the damned things
mircea_popescu: think about it - that's for many of them the ONLY chance they get to reproduce their dna.
asciilifeform: one day some schmuck will build (for usg bid) a coke machine which dispenses the goop in exchange for a photo and dna sample
mircea_popescu: everyone's happy : the plebs for a, the corp because b), as quarters weren't evenworth stealing
mircea_popescu: they a) no longer steal quarters and b) steal data.
mircea_popescu: (same holds true for the recent downturn in actual marriages ended that way too)
mircea_popescu: the only reason there's no coke machine murder-suicides is the low value of the item.
mircea_popescu: imo most coke drinkers do about the coins and machines what they do about their hopes and wives
asciilifeform: again, the proposition is that there exists 'small change wizardry' which would find a place in a coke machine.
mircea_popescu: don't come to me with a model that requires turning wizards into coke machines. there's no power to do so and the effort would be overall -ev anwyay
asciilifeform: i wondered, often, if most 'coke' drinkers simply amortized the lost coins, mentally
asciilifeform: by all rights the machines ought to have disappeared by now
mircea_popescu: the machine has a horrible reputation, and only survives in its abjection
asciilifeform: even though occasionally it eats the coin
asciilifeform: i.e. the secrets are sufficiently cheap (not of cosmic significance)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only way he might consider it is if it were a ~bounded~ negative
mircea_popescu: why would THE WIZARD get involved in this, when there's an unbound negative result on the table.
mircea_popescu: that's ok, the rule is 0 1 infinity.
mircea_popescu: not an easy task for angels to actually walk the earth.
mircea_popescu: and the past few years have taught me a whole lot about the value and complexity of maintaining impeccability.
kakobrekla: you need to call in ethereum
mircea_popescu: the mistake is not to ask for it, the mistake is to contemplate a system that requires the question answered.
mircea_popescu: so, he put in his key, and the result came out negatory. what now.
mircea_popescu: how are you going to resolve dispute between party a which claims it ate its key and party b which claims the key was junk ?
asciilifeform: hypothetically
asciilifeform: the question of 'how do i know this candy dispenser contains candy and won't simply eat my key' is to be resolved using popescutronium (substance which powers atomic dirigible)
mircea_popescu: then again... the past 50 years would look a lot different if i were actually right.
mircea_popescu: i am inclined to believe the solution to this problem is psychanalisis not software development.
asciilifeform: if the human element is maximally removed.
mircea_popescu: is there any particular reason the amateur that's not in a kool dude wot now will manage to get in the kool dude wot of the proposed market ?
asciilifeform: the concept of 'if random d00d pwned $victim, so has everyone' is only approximately true.
mircea_popescu: it'd seem very superficially that if this is true the other name for it is "polichinelle's secret"
mircea_popescu: how we'd evaluate the "very often" ?
asciilifeform: very often, the secret in question is in possession of folks who presently have ~no~ way to monetize it - i am speaking specifically of amateurs who pwned, by way of idle exploration, the target - but are not in a 'k00l d00dz wot' where they can safely sell the result to anyone
mircea_popescu: and yes, chocolate bar. to the right bloke.
mircea_popescu: a) monkey b) possesses the key c) will let go IF - c1. not painful c2. food and shelter.
asciilifeform: whereas u.s. corporate monkeys ~will~ sell their login for a chocolate bar (empirically proven)
asciilifeform: woman is terrible metaphor here - there's ancient (pre-mammalian, even) 'egg defense' firmware at work
asciilifeform: (monkey possesses the secret, will let go of it if he can do it at little personal risk and adequate reward)
mircea_popescu: you are trying to take the personal relationship out of sex.
asciilifeform: say i have a chip, from a certain vendor, for which no public documentation is known. it nominally allows firmware to be written, but not read back (most microcontroller vendors feature this.) i connect it to a programmable i/o board, and say 'supply the signals that cause it to spit out fw.'
mircea_popescu: in that example a) why would anyone accept to be paid less than the "cost to fuzz", and b) why would anyone opt to pay more thanb the "cost to fuzz" ?
asciilifeform: defined here specifically for the 'circumvented ~= passed' scenarios
mircea_popescu: will the computer test if the thing it is testing has met the test or merely circumvented the test ?
asciilifeform: not proposing anything complex, really. something on the order of a bear trap
mircea_popescu: which is precisely what they be.
asciilifeform: and this could make the deal
mircea_popescu: the 80% automation is what we do now anyway, for instance when using pgp
mircea_popescu: the 100% automation is too expensive
asciilifeform: i.e., if some bozo announces the box, no one plays, but if mircea_popescu does - possible
asciilifeform: i was speaking specifically of an automated system (riding on wot, naturally, for the 'why should i potentially waste valuable $secret' bit)
asciilifeform: where, e.g., 'get btc if you can get this chip, connected to the net, to execute undocumented instruction'
asciilifeform: the reason i asked is not that i was whacked with a club over the head and turned into a tard overnight, but that instead i was thinking of certain very limited special cases of jurov's suggested '0day prize box'
asciilifeform: arguable that they didn't buy it, but only magic-amplifier
mircea_popescu: just, not you, and not for the being.
mircea_popescu: it works privately. there ~are~ dudes who get girlies to throw their soaking wet panties at them
mircea_popescu: they have a lot of common characteristics, yes, and the people "in" like to joke about it and pretend it's "the same". but... it is not.
asciilifeform: and yes, it'd be a kind of 'assassination' and therefore doesn't work in a public wot, and therefore - at all...
mircea_popescu: but the market you propose, like the market which consists of assassins, like the market which consists of whores, is eminently NOT a market like the market that consists of grain, or ddram chips.
mircea_popescu: contrary to public idiocy, bitcoin's not particularly adequate to the latter. then again, public idiocy thought trains go too fast so it'll make passengers asphixiate out of lack of oxigen and cars explode.
asciilifeform: it is trickier than first appears, because 'i want the s00p3r-s33kr1t floor plan for $fpga' is turing-complete (that is, whether the trade was an honest one is not resolvable by machine)
mircea_popescu: the connection i see is that the proposition of this market is about as silly as the proposition of the trivia bot. there are fundamental differences between what a market is and what an assassination market is.
asciilifeform: i'd -like- to think there is a connection. just not sure what it is, quite yet.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you mean the trivia bot ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: lol and when's the click-ad thing expire ?
copypaste: your ad expired on the 13th so that's why it was removed
asciilifeform: from link, 'RUSSIA and China have cracked the top-secret cache of files stolen by the fugitive US whistleblower Edward Snowden, forcing MI6 to pull agents out of live operations in hostile countries, according to senior officials in Downing Street, the Home Office and the security services.' supposedly.
asciilifeform: (the material worth remembering at any rate)
asciilifeform: aha then yes
mircea_popescu: these were flexible
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 144were the later, 3 inch ones
mircea_popescu had a complete lotus 1-2-3 and novell netware ~suites~, hundreds of 1.2mb floppies in 50 item boxes, shelves of the shit
mircea_popescu: i had a batch of 100 out of which 30 died the first write
assbot: Logged on 13-06-2015 22:32:08; pete_dushenski: for ethereum posterity : http://www.contravex.com/2014/07/23/a-guide-to-buying-5000-ether-bitcoin-2-5x-more-than-ethereums-genesis-sale/#comment-20369
assbot: Logged on 13-06-2015 22:18:10; kalki: ok well I just subbed 2 special characters and then generated... it happened really fast... I thought it was supposed to take quite a bit of time but it appears to have generated in less than 5 seconds...?
mircea_popescu: that aside, adding a curly bracket at the end or something doesn't hurt anything
assbot: Logged on 13-06-2015 21:59:34; kalki: thanks... ok so in attempting to set up my first gpg account, I am following the guide from contravex... so I am using the 5 dice coupled with the englich passphrase word list. So, I did 10 tosses, got the words, but then after entering, the gpg client tells me it is a weak pw as it contains no special characters. I read somewhere on Trilema not to change ANYTHING from what I get from the dice toss... so just
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-06-2015#1163620 << the idea was to not change the words, as in "these five came out but i'ma use these other five instead because htey're eaiser to remember"
HeySteve: would be ideal if a bot could be modded to hold and award the prize money
kakobrekla: but i dont have a cdrom in any computer either
asciilifeform: (yes you can still get them)
punkman: all I get is the loading strobe
assbot: Logged on 13-06-2015 22:26:32; pete_dushenski: 1) gpg version omitted, 2) revocation certification auto-generated, 3) auto-encrypt drafts, 4) warning message for idiots like travis patron that they're about to send an unencrypted reply to an encrypted message
menahem: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-06-2015#1163644 << bahaha, travis patron. "Travis Patron is a singularity researcher and cybereconomist most well-known for his thought leadership into digital economies such as bitcoin... You can find him in Toronto, apathetic towards voting while hunting banksters for spare organs."
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> how many three-legged tables, chairs ? << i for one would rather have three-legged furniture: 3 points define a plane; any more and you have an overconstrained and rocking system
jurov: the chan needs some faggotry
gribble: The operation succeeded.
punkman: "turns out my team and theirs had been working on the same thing and we didn’t even know about each other."
punkman: "when I was at Visa, I was leading an R&D group on Machine Learning that was experimenting with Hadoop for near real-time analytics of purchases. anyway we worked a year on that thing, and it was awesome, but one day we get invited by another group at Visa who want to show us something ‘amazing'."