mircea_popescu: amusingly, plenty of usians are becoming quite end-of-world italians these days
mircea_popescu: im fully unconvinced by all this complicated, farcical, cinquecento-ish "string of instruments" puppet theatre.
asciilifeform: mr mold, for his part, does eventually admit that the black mobs were an instrument of somebody quite else
mircea_popescu: and i am pointing out that in that story... the author's side is abominable, and the story doesn't even credibly flow as he claims.
asciilifeform: ussr tried to take 'the black side', result was comical
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is, taking a side requires there ~being~ a side.
mircea_popescu: shoulda shot the whole lot of niggers up.
asciilifeform: iirc they did this
mircea_popescu: they're abominable.
mircea_popescu: i honestly, if i had to pick, would side with the "evil niggers" and beat the shit out of the pesky internet-addled "civilised" folk.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja visit the charred ruins left over from the folks for whom 'violence has nothing to do with it' burned to the ground ?
mircea_popescu: violence got nothing to do with it, it's a convenient scapegoat. like 13 yo girls claiming they don't want to associate with boys because they smell, rather than the obvious "my vagina's not yet developed enough"
mircea_popescu: maybe south carolina. thereabouts
mircea_popescu: the incident in question where they assaulted some schmuky blond kid (and the police had to come - i wouldn't have bothered) was iirc alabama
mircea_popescu: i dun need you to show me the port quarter. can find on own
mircea_popescu: you recall, i traveled the polace by bus ? hung out with black dudes in the back of greyhounds ?
asciilifeform took the 'grandest' version of this tour once, in an old armoured wagen
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: come to usa incognito (parachute?) sometime, i'll take you on a tour of 'what they escaped'
trinque: asciilifeform: ah I don't buy that; the hairbrained thing it was doing is in that bug thread, I think
mircea_popescu: "Large areas of X, including entire major cities, have been ethnically cleansed by the departure of class-B people fleeing class-A violence."
trinque: doesn't mean it was any good then
asciilifeform: fuck that. 'mathematician code' or not, it FUCKING WORKED IN 2011
trinque: sounds like the build system for it is totally fucked
asciilifeform: all other solutions are half-measures.
asciilifeform: it built on by box and runs there.
asciilifeform: (other than corpse of 'diehard'. which is obvious)
trinque: I'm beginning to see that mathemetician-code is a thing.
cazalla: continued even.. anyway cosmo forget the rest.. get ur bitcoin on
cazalla: mircea_popescu, lol so is the contined "x is doing something interesting"
cosmo: at least you're not the kickban type
mircea_popescu: put some substance in the vapid verbiage oy.
cazalla: its creators and followers are super keen to sell their 2.0 creation for bitcoin
cosmo: i like what they're doing but i'm not sure how their 'shares' or coins or whatever are minted/distributed
mircea_popescu: it was memory holed at the time, and not well known since.
mircea_popescu: it is excellent, on one hand because the man is supremely qualified - he is, no doubts about it, he who wrote romania's software, since the kingdom days - and because he actually lived it and saw it, and its context. top notch historical primary source.
asciilifeform: (of which europe saw fuck knows how many, and all ended exactly the same way)
asciilifeform: and the question of what differentiates a proper war from an idiot jaquerie
mircea_popescu: "Ian Smith could never have achieved any political prominence in prewar Britain, because his origins were decidedly middle-class": what, unlike Ramsay MacDonald, who was the bastard son of a farm servant, and twice PM?
asciilifeform: so perhaps world belongs - to them.
asciilifeform: e.coli may not be very clever, but they have 'active' down pat.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, being smart embodies no benefit.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/why-i-am-not-a-white-nationalist/#selection-933.0-933.687 << related, mostly because of the "The world belongs to the active, not to the thoughtful."
asciilifeform: (leaving aside, even, the question of just ~what kind~ of non-inaction he would advocate..)
asciilifeform: the question of why he is still alive and walking free in usaschwitz would naturally invite itself
asciilifeform: ^ speaking of which, brings back to the point of whether mr mold is a disinfo agent. not that i can say definitively, but imho the best argument that he is not, is the difficulty of formulating a picture of a hypothetical 'moldbug minus the restraint' who does ~not~ advocate inaction
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2014 00:38:19; mircea_popescu: "This should be reason enough for anyone to avoid taking up cudgels on behalf of either."
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2014#813861 << the previous pass through that thing if anyone gas.
mircea_popescu: most people wouldn't hire girls what went to school for the longest time.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, it existed on the porn sets too.
mircea_popescu: the difficulty's not in question. the difficulty of finding wet cunts biweekly for the rest of your life is even more burdensome
asciilifeform: the difficulty of 'emulate stupid for the rest of your life' is likely the reason for the infamous u.s. police dept. which figured in a lawsuit where some schmuck was rejected from police academ for scoring too high on 'iq test'
asciilifeform: whether it was on account of boredom, i never learned
asciilifeform: phun phakt: when i worked in u.s. army, a guard on the campus did just that
mircea_popescu: your type of intelligent person is not unlike the guard that shoots himself on the third day, because bored.
mircea_popescu: just as long as he doesn't wiggle them into kicks to his shn
asciilifeform: the result, in best case, tends to be something like mr mold.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fact is, folks who are placed in the unenviable position of 'emulate stupid' still try to use their mind. just like a prisoner in solitary cell, who theoretically does not really need legs for much of anything, will still wiggle them around
asciilifeform: pronounced the way davout did, or more like 'gulp' ?
mircea_popescu: hence "<mircea_popescu> yes well, the understandings of the crowd as to the justification of rules is made for the comprehension needs of the crowd, not for the expressive needs of the rules."
mircea_popescu: and no, stupid folks are perpetually asked to run smart on emulator, and they don't even have one.
mircea_popescu: for how long would you personally be willing to run a chip on the breadboard ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in any case, i had to spend half my fucking life yelling at people that "the difference between stupid and smart is that stupid can't be smart, BUT SMART CAN BE STUPID. IF YOU'RE UNWILLING TO EVER BE STUPID YOUR SMART'S JUST ANOTHER FLAVOUR OF DUMB!1111"
asciilifeform: the exceptions - we don't even get to hear about.
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, imagine that you were a 'closet dissenter' working for the fed. the most 'reform' you could get away with would be symbolic at best
asciilifeform: thinking folks, faced with 'chop wood in magadan or prostitute for the party' tend to end up 'getting down on knees, ready to please'
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 23:17:19; asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.
mircea_popescu: jurov she did, the server
mircea_popescu: im sure the fed is resisting socialism by not reporting all it prints to washington
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: would you believe, that type of character existed in su by the battallion
mircea_popescu: in other news, a more powerful me today has the intel dept ready to fix it for him! ha-HA! https://archive.is/Tpk6O
asciilifeform: 'palatial scientist' only function on own turf, where he has a direct line to the palatial executioner. like lysenko did
mircea_popescu: and this was obviously not acceptable, being how inept as he may be, and a fraud as he may be, nevertheless he is the palatial "scientist"
mircea_popescu: it's not cowardice per se, even though the drill sargeant thinks so. and the opposite view is not "deliberate stupidity"
asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.
asciilifeform: the 'cost of intelligence', as mentioned earlier by mircea_popescu, is that the clever fella is not ever content to buy rifle, weld some steel on an old van, shoot out a police station window, and die
asciilifeform: thing about mr mold is that the impotent thrashing is very much that of the prisoner 'turning inward', as pictured in 'chess novella'
mircea_popescu: oh, you know the guy ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the question that is of interest perhaps only to me, is whether mr mold has this 'smell' on account of character defect, or because he lives in a plesu-shaped box that he found no way of escaping
mircea_popescu: i remember reading that at some point and not being impressed. prolly the log has my expletives, ima look.
decimation: asciilifeform: I kinda arrived at this thesis from a theological perspective earlier, which is also why moldbug appealed
mircea_popescu: (and yes, i fundamentally do not like the guy because he reads exactly like andrei plesu, gabriel liiceanu or an entire smattering of entirely identical superficially "cultured", inept and impotent romanian "intellectuals" of the "Resistence throguh culture" brand).
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: his entire thesis is that the more demented sects of puritanism merged together, shed the unnecessary legs and wings, and turned into usg as we know it (or rather, the original intellectual underpinnings thereof)
mircea_popescu: i wonder where he picked up the tidbit.
mircea_popescu: "the battle between missionaries and settlers, which ended of course in the victory of the former, was the great conflict of colonialism." << this is broadly coirrect. in the us, decolonialization took the form of "dry states", the missionaries fought against settlers brandied as "the bar lobby" there.
asciilifeform: moldbug, i will point out, speaks not one language save his native engl. that he was able to reconstruct even a semblance of coherent picture of anything while sitting in the anglo junkyard, is remarkable by itself
mircea_popescu: the telegraph obligingly deleted the linked reference to how the senator's daughter was raped by the praetorian guards, so now there's no reference.
asciilifeform: i for one, when first encountered mircea_popescu's articles, scarfed'em up on account of a feeling of 'like mr mold but without the latter's impotent thrashing and cultural illiteracy'
mircea_popescu: one'd thing there is some room for personal taste in praxis and stylistics already
mircea_popescu: so i write an article with a cultural grounding introduction referencing newman and proceed to the historical discussion, some guy writes (a decade prior) an article using tacitus in thesame function and casually mentioning garfield todd
mircea_popescu: what the fuck happened here.
mircea_popescu: ok the similarities are unnerving
mircea_popescu: Todd, basically, was the Universalist to end all Universalists.
mircea_popescu: like "In fact, what Power really means is that a government "cannot survive indefinitely" if it defies the wishes of the international community. Ie, of, well - Power. Here we have the ultimate cause of Rhodesia's destruction. I believe this is a clear and undisputed fact."
asciilifeform: but the tentacles are painted clearly enough
asciilifeform: granted he only shows a kind of silhouette of the monster (all he personally is able to see with own eyes)
asciilifeform: mr mold could be described as a founder of a very depressive sort of 'dismal science' - where a great many folks with no cultural literacy to speak of, no remotely-plausible avenue for constructive action, were led to realize approximately how their civilization anally raped itself
asciilifeform: almost like he was laying groundwork to turn into a top contender for 'was planning to kill hitler' after the fact
mircea_popescu: not so unlike all the people who were planning to kill hitler, but never got around to it.
mircea_popescu: <trinque> asciilifeform: is that where I protest the patriarchy by wearing a skirt? << it's a very specific locus to east european "anticomunism" of the contemptible kind.
mircea_popescu: holy shit man. a quote from wikipedia and the next mention of the word in comments ?!
decimation: yeah the second one in 2007
mircea_popescu: oh there it is ty.
asciilifeform: some of whom imagined themselves 'resistance'
asciilifeform: just as there were smugglers in ussr
asciilifeform: fact is, there is not any meaningful resistance to usg on own turf. there are criminals who imagine themselves resisting, e.g., mexican mafia, but actually live in symbiosis with 'war on drugs'
assbot: Logged on 28-05-2014 00:38:27; punkman: as far as rampages go, the bulldozer guy was pretty cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZbG9i1oGPA
decimation: is that the police station guy?
asciilifeform: and notice, there was no army of killdozers to follow heevmeyer.
assbot: Nobody could have foreseen their using a plane like a rocket on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TEvZl2 )
asciilifeform: end result, best case, probably would resemble http://trilema.com/nobody-could-have-foreseen-their-using-a-plane-like-a-rocket
asciilifeform: the non-retarded version of this, where a fella spends 20 years in his garage building the 'strela', afaik has not yet happened.
assbot: Logged on 13-04-2014 22:27:18; asciilifeform: the 'a) wanna buy strela? b) fuck off c) really, dontcha? b) ok sure c) off to jail' thing has been going so long that it doesn't even make national news every time now.
asciilifeform: i will describe, for the benefit of n00bz, the typical career path of 'let's resist usg through action' in usgland: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=13-04-2014#623044
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu might say that it is because mr mold has no balls. i would say that i cannot comment on whether he has balls, but will point out that having a brain is a handicap if contemplating active resistance to usg, without support of foreign army, from inside its walls
trinque: asciilifeform: is that where I protest the patriarchy by wearing a skirt?
asciilifeform: mr mold is an incorrigible subscriber to the particular flavour of mental wankery described as 'resistance through culture' in one of mircea_popescu's articles
trinque: is that not the most primordial rationale of all time?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah that's my point, even if he has decided black people suck, it's quite a leap to think that randomly murdering them is going to help anyone's lot
trinque: asciilifeform: of course not; guy's capable of "everything is because of the outgroup" and nothing more
asciilifeform: trinque: notice that it does not even occur to the tard to kill one of the ~actual~ architects of his misery
trinque: I read about as much of his little manifesto as I could be bothered to
trinque: bahaha this meme that if any whites suck, it's the fault of teh blacks
asciilifeform: yet the schmucks insist on demonstrating their (lack of) marksmanship with grandfather's pistol or whatnot
asciilifeform: for instance, it is widely (afaik) known that the highest-scoring 'postal' in usa used a bottle of ordinary petrol as the weapon
cazalla: you can always find a national anthem of rhodesia thread on /pol/ too, lyrics and all lol
asciilifeform: decimation: i was arguing even beyond 'unable to comprehend the parts about how this kind of action is hopeless' to 'clinically retarded'
decimation: in modern times, I suspect that's the case, yes
asciilifeform: decimation: the 'alt right'-sphere's fixation with rhodesia is - afaik - definitively traceable to mr mold
decimation: if anything, this only gives the 'witch hunters' even more ammo
mircea_popescu: oh i thought it was the police station guy
decimation: cazalla: it's like someone read moldbug but was unable to comprehend the parts about how this kind of action is hopeless
cazalla: having read his little manifesto, the kid is without a doubt a /pol/ack (muh rhodesia, jews etc etc)
decimation: even if all he wanted was to increase the 'white team' 'score' at the expense of the 'black team' - it's not at all obvious that this was accomplished
decimation: his logic went somethingl ike 1.) found out black people suck 2.) "We have no skinheads, no real KKK, no one doing anything but talking on the internet. Well someone has to have the bravery to take it to the real world, and I guess that has to be me.
asciilifeform: decimation: iirc thread was about 'police station postal' of about the same time
asciilifeform: back to the sisters, my understanding is that if 'westermarck' fails, they work just as well as arranged-wives and the like
asciilifeform: (turned out, the sign means 'neighborhood watch!' and depicts a crossed-out 'spy vs spy' figure)
asciilifeform: (edge of the earth?)
asciilifeform: poor sailboat is just short of sailing off the cliff.
mircea_popescu: ah, no, we're discussing economics here. the ship goes uphil like any othjer ship going uphill.
asciilifeform: might want to ask the aficionados
mircea_popescu: who the fuck would want a sister on his head.
mircea_popescu: if you think about it, men tend to value "fuck me then i take off" girls the most, coworkers less than that and wives even less.
asciilifeform: i was expecting an analogy between receiving free energy from the aether and hypothetical easy short-circuit solution to problem of what to fuck
mircea_popescu: ah that. well, poking around at the world, right ? same reason they stick things in their mouth.
asciilifeform: 'for the exact same reasons'
mircea_popescu: for the exact same reasons, too.
mircea_popescu: perpetuum mobile is also of perennial interest to the same apeish overaged teen mind.
mircea_popescu: which leads back to the point.
asciilifeform: only that the subject is of perennial interest to homo redditicus
asciilifeform: at any rate, i'm not an inquisitor and cannot comment re: whether the sisters were fucked in reality, or in imagination, and if so, whos
asciilifeform: this particular subject being 'phillippinized' would be almost equally strange as were the reports genuine
mircea_popescu: how about they were all bitcoin experts from "the community" of derps that never saw a bitcoin ?
asciilifeform: (unless they are all philipinos...)
mircea_popescu: what is this, the future ?
asciilifeform: there was a reddit 'ama' thread linked here last year, where sisterfuckers chimed in by the battalions
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: my understanding is that folks who didn't get 'westermack-effected' for whatever reason, having sisters, are busy fucking them at this very minute
mircea_popescu: ask someone why shouldn't they fuck their sister next time you want an angry puzzled man.
mircea_popescu: yes well, the understandings of the crowd as to the justification of rules is made for the comprehension needs of the crowd, not for the expressive needs of the rules.
asciilifeform: mainly speaking from an ancient pet peeve of mine, where folks who slept through noether and even carnot often map '2nd law of thermo' to a childhood-received 'who does not work, does not eat' and think of it as a 1:1 map
asciilifeform: so it is not the best example of 'plainly impossible to any thinking person'
asciilifeform: incidentally, the final nail in the coffin of perpetuum mobile wasn't really driven in until emmy noether..
mircea_popescu: sure, plausible, if you're the plausing kind.
mircea_popescu: it is as plausible as the notion that "mecanicity" makes perpetuum mobile more plausible.
mircea_popescu: Jesus Ortiz: [long pause] You really some teacher, Mr. Nazerman. You really, really 's the greatest.
mircea_popescu: tation to dig into the Earth to grow food or to gaze at a limitless land and call it your own, no, no. You just go on and on and on repeating this process over the centuries over and over and suddenly you make a grand discovery. You have a mercantile heritage! You are a merchant. You are known as a usurer, a man with secret resources, a witch, a pawnbroker, a sheenie, a makie and a kike!
asciilifeform: (and the impression i got was that the dunbaricity was the ~only~ thing that made the mechanics halfway plausible..?)
mircea_popescu: ut and buy another piece of cloth, cut it into three pieces and sell it for three pennies profit. But, my friend, during that time you must never succumb to buying an extra piece of bread for the table or a toy for a child, no. You must immediately run out and get yourself a still larger piece cloth and so you repeat this process over and over and suddenly you discover something. You have no longer any desire, any temp
mircea_popescu: gh to have a geography or an army or a land myth. All you have is a little brain. A little brain and a great bearded legend to sustain you and convince you that you are special, even in poverty. But this little brain, that's the real key you see. With this little brain you go out and you buy a piece of cloth and you cut that cloth in two and you go and sell it for a penny more than you paid for it. Then you run right o
mircea_popescu: Sol Nazerman: You people? Oh, let's see. Yeah. I see. I see, you... you want to learn the secret of our success, is that right? Alright I'll teach you. First of all you start off with a period of several thousand years, during which you have nothing to sustain you but a great bearded legend. Oh my friend you have no land to call your own, to grow food on or to hunt. You have nothing. You're never in one place long enou
mircea_popescu: you ever seen the pawnbroker btw ?
asciilifeform: hence the informal 'coin'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: also the implication in the story was that the 'gands' lived in dunbar-number villages
asciilifeform: rather than recipe for life
mircea_popescu: before they fucked it all up, which is what ended it.
mircea_popescu: it does not happen period. the "floating value of coin" model gets reliably thundered into the dirt by fixed value coins and arbitrage.
asciilifeform: author would probably answer 'jew lands and will die of problems before he gets so much as a gram rather than pound of flesh'
mircea_popescu: it would take me about a month of "earth time" to own one of their townlets, i reckon.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what i meant was, extract a lesson from the story, or extract the juice from the folks portrayed therein
shinohai: @ asciilifeform therefore I post for newcomers to understand why tor is smacktarded.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i will say for the record that a) the "economic" model contemplated by the naive socialist pseudo-anarchists cooking up the story is broken and b) anyone aged 16 who can't figure out how to extract value out of it should go hang.
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 20:31:36; shinohai: Interesting read: https://securelist.com/analysis/publications/70673/uncovering-tor-users-where-anonymity-ends-in-the-darknet/
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169903 << deadly boring on account of none of the material being in any way new (to anyone with even a faint interest in the subject) whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: that quote is exactly the http://trilema.com/2015/why-representative-democracy-doesnt-work-and-doesnt-make-sense/#selection-151.258-157.105 observation
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169801 <<< there are english translations (reading ride the tiger atm)
mircea_popescu: Nonsense! declared Gleed. There is no such thing. There is no weapon inventable that the other fellow cant employ once he gets his hands on it and learns how to operate it.
assbot: Uncovering Tor users: where anonymity ends in the Darknet - Securelist ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gz2OsY )
shinohai: Interesting read: https://securelist.com/analysis/publications/70673/uncovering-tor-users-where-anonymity-ends-in-the-darknet/
mircea_popescu: Is that so? The other eyed him speculatively, had another pick at his teeth. And what makes him excellent?
asciilifeform: and results in equal amount of 'what am i, the single ant, to do, wtf' after reading.
asciilifeform: has pretty much the same point as mircea_popescu's explanation earlier
mircea_popescu: i've yet to see a cat in desperate need of overthrowing the imposition of catdom upon it, however.
asciilifeform: perhaps go back to the observation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=19-06-2015#1169229
asciilifeform: the lsd naturally secreted in my skullcase, apparently does not suffice
asciilifeform: well, is it possible for me to apprehend the correct terms, whatever they might be, or do i need some of nubbins's lsd ?
mircea_popescu: you're discussing the matter in inadequate terms, as if you were to try and judge software by what happens with the table.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo today i saw the classic 'mosin' for sale; costing roughly 3x what i last remember seeing...
asciilifeform: to rephrase, elephant can be killed by hunter - with bullet, or spear even. but there are not enough chimps in all of africa to kill it by throwing own shit at it, even were all of the chimps to agree to this plan.
mircea_popescu: white china survives, and the fucking hittite empire to boot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand, by subjective criteria as you employ, the english empire still survives.
asciilifeform: when i say 'ineffective,' my thought is 'usg can survive as many of these as are ever likely to appear'
mircea_popescu: "hey, this isn't the best plan i ever heard"
mircea_popescu: if this man were here talking, i would make the same exact observation.
asciilifeform: at the very least, enemy cannot simply shrug and ignore burned train
mircea_popescu: they're not playing counterstrike
mircea_popescu: because they proceed of causes, not towards purposes ? who yet even cares per se of body count ?
asciilifeform: my original observation was that the folks who have the mental chops to bring about four, five-figure body counts - do not.
mircea_popescu: the notion that human agency is ever "effectual" is such rank nonsense to begion with, that a pretense of "saving action for optimal effect" can only be regarded in psychogenic terms
mircea_popescu: the response was usually ridicule.
mircea_popescu: you know, once ceausescu was finally killed, it came to light there have been thousands of people plotting his demise, allegedly. to hear them talk, some of these had gone on for decades.
mircea_popescu: which i guess makes sense. to them, anyway.
mircea_popescu: in any case : people who don't steal do not become by this better thieves. they do instead become part of a different world.
mircea_popescu: well yes, they are. so are you. so what of it ?
asciilifeform: and 'every man with spear' did not help the zulu.
mircea_popescu: well no. you are in the unique position where someone killed himself, and you say "his death was not effectual - as it didn't resolve his problems. lo, they are still here!"
asciilifeform: not even among the pashtuns.
asciilifeform: yes, if every man with axe, then game over
mircea_popescu: anyway, it is no argument to say of the badger trap "but it shot no laser"
asciilifeform: (why did he wait for the usg snakepit to empty?)
mircea_popescu: it is the siren song of britni spears.
mircea_popescu: this is what all they who disagreed with chomsky and agreed with civilisational narrative re joe stack also saw.
asciilifeform: or the like
asciilifeform: rather than quietly cooking trotyl for years
asciilifeform: what i'm seeing with the 'postals' is something like what tlp saw