SuchWow: it was not my idea to bring up altcoins in the discussion
ben_vulpes: altcoins are retarded, you're going to get prodded when you show up here pumping them.
cazalla: people often up others that /join the channel.. sorta like answering a knock at the door? just being polite ya know, there is no judgement one way or the other until you open your mouth
SuchWow: so perhaps the rules have changed
SuchWow: you're the one making subtly degrading comments towards me based on total ignorance
cazalla: what conditions are they?
cazalla: SuchWow, is this the day where you check if #b-a is still around long after dogecoin was put to sleep?
SuchWow: as to the current sentiment
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes http://www.dianacoman.com/2014/10/30/the-cost-of-shitogramming/ << check her out
SuchWow: i've been gone for 2-3 months, tl;dr me the best parts
SuchWow: why hello there
funkenstein_: i'm doubt it's what you are referring to, but the "atomic transaction.. btc from x to y and Ztc from y to x all in one all-or-nothing TX, has supposedly been implemented by mercury exchange
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 17:56:12; punkman: asciilifeform: I think the state of the art is: you send X BTC to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE then new genesis block assigns X newcoin to originating address, or something along these lines
asciilifeform: but there could be no talk of removing it without first removing from bitcoind
assbot: IamA 23 year old from the UK who can end the austerity and inequality that we are facing, but I am ignored by the media and even my own political party AMA! : IAmA ... ( http://bit.ly/1JcT6Ae )
williamdunne: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/3an9iz/iama_23_year_old_from_the_uk_who_can_end_the/
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 01:43:37; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: you now have homework. it being, to read & actually grok the sequence of 4 'dns thermonuke' patches.
mircea_popescu: but then again...
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i wonder briefly why these tards don't do something useful with their time, instead of making pointless "infographs" that make no sense, represent no data and interest no one.
mircea_popescu: awww. the words of a man in old dull pain./
mircea_popescu: the happy "done!" printout
mircea_popescu: was it ubuntu in the end ?
mircea_popescu: o brother
mod6: ok, well done patching the stuff that can be patched...
assbot: Eulora 2nd event, Crafting As A Business and other considerations on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1JcLHky )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-2nd-event-crafting-as-a-business-and-other-considerations/ << someone put it on reddit twitter or wherever.
mod6: there's about a 0.001% chance this will work.
mod6: lol, this is uglier than I had thought. I patched the gcc-4.8.4 source with all of the patches from /their/ bundle v1.5 (http://dpaste.com/1NRJTT7.txt), and now i'm in there apply patches by hand, and only 2 out of ~10 files to patch actually exist here (the rest are for pr# files (Problem Report?)). And when I can apply a patch, the surrounding code is slightly different.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, mod6, decimation, trinque and any other c-grammers
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: If this doesn't go well, perhaps we'll try a period gcc if we can get it to work with uclibc/hardened AND another caviat here is going to be weather this defect shows up in there as well (since way down level).
mod6: I think I might try to manually implement the changes required if the files in question do exist.
mod6: so trinque & I have discovered that the patch provided by the email mentioned ( https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html ) doesn't patch cleanly at all. Even with some McGuyvering of the patch to ensure the paths are correct etc, there are still a number of files not found. It might be plausible to write our own custom patch for 4.8.4 to resolve the issue.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne depends a lot on the exchange.
mircea_popescu: the problem reduces to "find a salt that will turn this trivial hash into a known hash", which is equivalent to "break this key", which makes the premise unworkable.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 06:10:10; ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#2122 << does this set the bindAddress to any if the -rpcallowip flag is set?
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 03:52:09; ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a good reason why bitcoind had to be a multithreaded proggy?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2015#1170737 << does ben_vulpes write single-threaded net proggies often ? << ima sheep, but i was just thinking that spinning off a whole new thread to flush the db and sleep for half a second was a bit heavy handed.
ben_vulpes digs asbestos gloves out of the closet
ben_vulpes: is today the day we vendor gcc?
punkman: asciilifeform: I think the state of the art is: you send X BTC to 1BitcoinEaterAddressDontSendf59kuE then new genesis block assigns X newcoin to originating address, or something along these lines
trinque: or like... poke it in the eye and run
trinque: lettuce slay the gcc dragon
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu historical q. has anyone ever publicly attempted an honest implementation of 'provably destroy coin on bitcoin blockchain, re-materialize on $altcoin chain' mechanism? or was all known work on the subject perpetrated by idiot sc4mz0rz ?
asciilifeform still recovering from yesterday's dive into the pile of shit, and wonders who and where hates said pile nearly as much as he does
asciilifeform: mod6: lowest level of the bitcoin spec - order in which fields go in message, their contents, etc
mod6: whats the wire protocol?
asciilifeform: pretty sure this crud was in the original 'wire protocol.'
asciilifeform: mod6: not the linked one
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 03:52:09; ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a good reason why bitcoind had to be a multithreaded proggy?
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 03:57:27; mod6: good point, i shouldn't speculate about weather satoshi wrote that or not without looking at MP's submission of the original bitcoin. (http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000047.html)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2015#1170818 << the folks who like to brag about how they work for physical benjies will enjoy this link
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 06:10:10; ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#2122 << does this set the bindAddress to any if the -rpcallowip flag is set?
williamdunne: Just the UK
mircea_popescu: it's very much like the hiring market for businesses.
mircea_popescu: contrary to popular belief tax lawyers are not expensive, ~especially~ if you're young and you look like you know what you're doing. most of their revenue comes from their list, which they can only add at the early stages, nobody's switching late in the game.
williamdunne: Naphex: Definitely, I'm guessing its the scammer you worked for trying to revive his shit without your source
mircea_popescu: if it's a large company you don't gas about dividends. if it's small hire them as consultants or w/e
williamdunne: Not the only shareholder
williamdunne: Naphex: I was terrified this was the finished product
mircea_popescu: deduct in london, get out of 60% rather than in romania, which has 16% pretty much throughout.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne moreover, there are better jurisdictions to deduct expenses in than romania.
mircea_popescu: but best used in the hands of a competent local accountant, because it's complex.
mod6: Unrelated, I downgraded my GPG version from v1.4.13 to v1.4.10 -- incase anyone notices the change in my sigs.
mircea_popescu: mod6 it was in the first implementation too. pretty sure it's OA.
mod6: So yeah, in the version (v0.2.1) from MPs email, that code to find the external ip is included. Also if I do a checkout of tag v0.1.5 from git, same thing. Still don't know who added it for sure though.
mircea_popescu: i see your raisinettes and raise you the maid : http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8sfllwJJS1qeqtbxo1_1280.jpg
williamdunne: Wonder what happened there
gribble: scoopbot_revived was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 day, 12 hours, 40 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <scoopbot_revived> Changing the BitBet resolution process. http://trilema.com/2015/changing-the-bitbet-resolution-process/
williamdunne: Naphex: Did your friend launch the RO exchange?
williamdunne: I'm back in the UK, so will begin appearing again
ben_vulpes: if that works the way you say it works that's more implicit than rails
mircea_popescu: and it turns the x into something it can use as an ip
ben_vulpes: which numeric value? i read " if flag is passed, accept requests from any ipv4 addr. else, only accept connections on the loopback interface"
mircea_popescu: but the true is a function call
mircea_popescu: otherwise it only allows 127.0.0.1
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it sets it to the specified ip
ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/bitcoinrpc.cpp#2122 << does this set the bindAddress to any if the -rpcallowip flag is set?
ben_vulpes: does anyone recall where the (brief) thread on replacing rpc with signals went?
mod6: good point, i shouldn't speculate about weather satoshi wrote that or not without looking at MP's submission of the original bitcoin. (http://thebitcoin.foundation/ml/btc-dev/2015-February/000047.html)
ben_vulpes: unrelatedly, is there a good reason why bitcoind had to be a multithreaded proggy?
ben_vulpes: do we even know that that part of the wire protocol is his handiwork?
mircea_popescu: that could not spoof the ip address ?
mod6: who knows why satoshi put that in there. i kinda find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have understood IP headers. perhaps he was trying to ensure that every connecting node was indeed a real host, not some spoofed packet magic.
ben_vulpes: or the bravely foolish.
mircea_popescu: daring acts of bravado belong to they in possession of a map.
mircea_popescu: still, the conservative approach in unknown terrain has yet to be beaten in the field.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it's a subtle kind of malevolence wherein needless complexity is all of a sudden necessary because of a subtle misunderstanding of the bedrock
mircea_popescu: they can have jam today.
asciilifeform: '"We tried to get him mental help numerous times, but the system failed him, because he was declared 'sane'," his family has said.' << mega-l0l!
mircea_popescu: who the fuck knows what ddos.
asciilifeform: if you're at the stage of suspecting a diddled socket, time to use actual asymmetric crypto
asciilifeform: the 'speak own ip' thing did indeed drag in a whole mess of crap that had no business being in bitcoin
mircea_popescu: hoiw the fuck do you even say this in english
mircea_popescu: rather than just ignarous.
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, "it's strange" is not much of an arghument is it ?
mircea_popescu: i am inclined to believe this is more likely the result of original author having nfi how tcp works rathger than having an idea about some obscure weakness he's deliberately mitigating
asciilifeform: without any intrinsic need for either side to say 'and here is my ip'
asciilifeform: once a tcp socket is opened, there is two-way communication.
asciilifeform: nothing like this appears therein
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: study any other classical protocol (e.g., ftp)
mircea_popescu: i still don't see the problem you two see
mod6: yeah, the network stuff (having read Stevens' stuff (UNIX Network Programming Vol 1&2)) makes me cringe.
ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#0395 << this implies the connection isn't dependent on the broadcasted IP at all
ben_vulpes: why not just talk on the open connection?
asciilifeform digs in the pile of shit
ben_vulpes: what do you mean "answer": attempt to talk to the provided IP instead of the connection abstraction provided by the machine?
ben_vulpes: myes, i see that. what i'm not 100% on is the impact to the receiving node of having garbage in that field.
ben_vulpes: by virtue of the socket being opened, the receiving node should be able to just write to that (file descriptor, i think is the abstraction?) and let the NIC handle the package addressing - correct?
ben_vulpes: myeah this gets back to my question about the necessity of the IP address in the protocol.
mircea_popescu: more insane than requiring machines to know their name.
asciilifeform: btw am i the only one who thinks it to be utterly retarded that the protocol requires a node to know own external ip ?
mircea_popescu: well... you don't plan on being there long anyway, so.
mod6: yeah that /27 was through Qwest (now CenturyLink (usg isp)), now 1 static is included from cumcast "out of the box" iirc.
asciilifeform: also known as only supplier of reasonable net pipe in the entire region
mircea_popescu: i guess you're stuck servicing the things
asciilifeform: afaik no u.s. residential isp has any place to plug these in
mircea_popescu: bitcoin, not for the very poor.
mod6: either have I, but glibc is full of trickery.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al: btw, irc is still in there for another reason: how node gets own external ipv4
trinque: I have no strong opinion regarding uclibc vs glibc, as I haven't used the former at all before this
mod6: So, I think I'm gonna stay the course on trying to patch 4.8.4... if we get into a giant hassle with it, we'll cut bait for the time being and try to build something like 3.7 and try that.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: compilator is ~the~ dependency
mod6: decimation: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue << i just really hope this applies cleanly, and "works".
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: not sure how you intend to build a dns-using thing with uclibc << this is a chicken/egg problem yeah. maybe we can't get it fully built because of the whole gethostbyname libnss bullshit. but if we can at least ensure that it'll link properly, that's huge. then, even if it's not fully statuc because of that, we can amputate dns with your patches and retry.
mod6: I'll put it in the list. We'll revisit all of this soon.
mircea_popescu: this thing is not so much an emergency as something that needs to be done. if it sees the light of box this month say it's perfect.
mod6: For me, doing this first is imperitive as even if the DNS amputation works, if we can't compile it with uclibc, it doesn't matter anyway.
mod6: I, with trinque's help, need to patch gcc 4.8.4 with gentoo using /etc/portage/patches via ebuild flag(?). If that works, then I can test that the R.I. will link properly. If that works, maybe we finally have static apple pie.
assbot: Logged on 11-06-2015 03:34:37; decimation: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc-patches/2015-02/msg00410.html < gcc patch that maybe fixed the issue
mircea_popescu: mod6 depends on how advanced the work is. how advanced is it ?
mod6: I think that would be the best course of action.
mod6: So currently, I'm trying to get gcc patched to see if we can even build the R.I. with gcc/uclibc. Would it be prudent to finish that work before moving on to testing this DNS amputation?
asciilifeform: (at the moment, enemy controlling routing backbone can silently diddle virtually everything)
asciilifeform: gossipd is strictly necessary - if only for authenticable nodes
asciilifeform: mod6: i am trying to set a kind of example for how one ought to do the patches
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> mod6 we've not yet put the entire that change in yet, apparently, because one per. << makes sense. just wanted to "voice" that concern.
asciilifeform: but the gnarly piece of shit irc.cpp gotta go.
mircea_popescu: mod6 we've not yet put the entire that change in yet, apparently, because one per.
asciilifeform: if someone wants to extract seeds from that thing in real time, and forward them to therealbitcoin - that'd be grand
mod6: CAddress addrConnect("92.243.23.21", 6667); // irc.lfnet.org << would it be wiser if we spin up an ircd special for this purpose ? << i think we should make this ip non-static, configurable from a file. these IPs can change at anytime/be honeynet, etc.
asciilifeform: i will repeat my observation that the irc seeder thing ~does not belong in the client~
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i think they run more or less basic ircd ya
asciilifeform: as far as i can see, there is nothing nonstandard about lfnet
mircea_popescu: part of it is to have a backup in case lfnet is a piece of shit / the enemy. which is pretty likely.
mircea_popescu: part of it is to see how well bitcoin holds up by being hosed from the irc side.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: though for some odd reason the linked script joins #bitcoin rather than #bitcoinXX (where XX in {0, 99})
ben_vulpes: mod6: i think the ask is for a long-running public node.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ben_vulpes would the foundation spin up an aws and run this ? << I can test this with my aws, sure. unless you guys are proposing something else i.e. spinning up our own ircd
asciilifeform: i think mircea_popescu is trying to say that jurov ought to break open the piggy and pony up
ben_vulpes: rechristen la serenissima's bitcoin host as the bitcoin foundation?
ben_vulpes: the rechristening
mircea_popescu: rechristian it as the bitcoin foundation too ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: if you're willing to donate the cost, why not run it through the bitcoin host?
asciilifeform: which is why i'd kinda like to lose the irc thing eventually
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the irc module has begged to be fuzzed long ago
ben_vulpes: wouldn't be the foundation mircea_popescu so much as my personal account
asciilifeform: and see if the libnss idiocy goes away quietly
asciilifeform: after satisfied with this patch, therealbitcoin folks ought to try the static build again
asciilifeform: (1st 3 are rather simple)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al: you now have homework. it being, to read & actually grok the sequence of 4 'dns thermonuke' patches.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes would the foundation spin up an aws and run this ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually this is the only version that could conceivably function on uclibc/pogo
asciilifeform: irc is only in there because presently this is very easy means of discovering mostly-ungavinized nodes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if the irc falls over for whatever reason this thing is dead.
asciilifeform: fully static build should now be theoretically possible.
asciilifeform: '(EXPERIMENTAL) Full DNS Thermonuke!'
ben_vulpes has lost track of all the zappings from unexpectedly electrified...trees
mircea_popescu: one way or another.
mircea_popescu: the thing is, derp sitting at home and seeking supportive subreddits for his drawings is never going to figure out he's fucked in the head.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> !up ben_vulp` << 'tis the french pronounciation
asciilifeform: see for yourself. grep your tree, case-insensitively, for 'dns' and then for 'lookup'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the objective is total removal of dns such that static build becomes possible.
mircea_popescu: so then why make it ?
asciilifeform: no one should even dare to think of using what i'm about to drop in the ml, anywhere close to the front lines, without ~several~ literate folks having first read it.
asciilifeform: if kbd, ethernet, etc - no
asciilifeform: only if cpu is the objective
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 18:29:13; asciilifeform: (there is an apocryphal story where feynman was invited to spoodge into william shockley's 'sperm bank of genius.' and he said 'you have the wrong address! go call my father'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-06-2015#1169687 << not really for this purpose. needs the cpu noise.
mircea_popescu: reading comments on unqualified reservations, it occurs to me the main reason this guy got to be popular was being so amply wrong about so many things.
mircea_popescu: i don't think there exists a culture in which boys past the age of sexual maturity show any preference whatever to sleep with the women, just like girls of all ages much prefer to.
asciilifeform lived for a spell as 'illegal agent' in the gurlz' wing, was not esp. quiet place
mircea_popescu: generally the buildings are segregated, yes.
asciilifeform: (in my time the separation was by left-right wings of floor)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the dorm i lived in still had relics from the time of sex-segregated floors of bldg: bathrooms tiled in the traditional sickly pink or blue signifiers
mircea_popescu: such is the weird of socialism.
mircea_popescu: and she was like... whywould they knock
mircea_popescu: apparently in the us this wouldn't ever work because... inspections
mircea_popescu: and i explain that yes, at the time girls just lived in whichever room, usually moving around for a day or a week or whatever by their friendship or allegiances or who had bfs over
mircea_popescu: i recently discussed matters of student housing with a girl the right age from there
asciilifeform: i witnessed inspections. did not know if 'fuse box closes' was on the list.
mircea_popescu: so they inspect ?
asciilifeform: the screw-ins tend to be taller than edisonians, and panel won't close
mircea_popescu: they even sell screw-in automatics
asciilifeform: but someone would have to install them
mircea_popescu: the automatics are both better cheaper and easer to use
asciilifeform: plenty of folks here still live in such places, because just about every shop sells these fuses.
asciilifeform: located at the top of a stairwell to nowhere in a deep cellar, top of staircase bricked up (near the base, a ~working~ toilet in the middle of bare cement, incidentally)
asciilifeform: or the resetable kind
mircea_popescu: they were russian made.
mircea_popescu: i saw the hardware kind recently. was a surprise
asciilifeform: l0l did we do the fly jar here?
cazalla: you're gonna wanna double wrap it with such women though? defeats the purpose of fucking them to begin with
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'die' is not worst outcome of this hypothetical
decimation: but I have no reason to see them raised in a seething cesspool of crime
mircea_popescu: how many white boys got sent upstate and ended up pimping out the female guards ?
decimation: so moving to the ghetto and having your children play with needles on the street is what a real man would do?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't a boxing match if one of the fellas in the ring has a pistol. the hordes had usg on their side
mircea_popescu: forget for a moment all the counting of "how many niggers ate white babies" or w/e and riddle me this :
cazalla: reminds me of the hamstrung kid in high school who hits back at his bullies but is inevitably bullied by teachers as well for responding
mircea_popescu: sure, every individual can do whatever the fuck they please for whatever random reasons, but when you're trying to discuss migration in statistical terms like he tries to discuss it - it's always a sexual matter.
mircea_popescu: look, there is absolutely no way you will sell me on the theory that the leaving male is anything but the sexual inferior.
assbot: Logged on 21-06-2015 00:20:25; mircea_popescu: you recall, i traveled the polace by bus ? hung out with black dudes in the back of greyhounds ?
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-06-2015#1170296 <<< perhaps this explains the recent avalanche black cock tumblr images?