ascii_field: shinohai: good luck obtaining so much as ONE system-on-chip for the prototype
ascii_field: ... and the node is 2 blocks ahead of 'blockchain.info'
shinohai wants to start a pogo bitnode factory, ensure domination of therealbitcoin
jurov: ssd business is so brisk, i doubt very much there will be significant bulk discounts
ascii_field: the ~20 usd figure came out of my arse
kakobrekla: ascii_field> kakobrekla: ssd is often 'free' - rip out of a retired laptop < maybe that is true for you and me but not the majority i dont think
ben_vulpes: i must derp my ass down the coast now, however.
kakobrekla: <ascii_field> trinque: 50 is almost TRIPLE the cost of a pogo < if you dont include ssd you dont have a working node
ben_vulpes: i'm beginning to suspect that booting bitcoin nodes cannot be automated in the same way that diddling one's gpg cannot be automated.
ascii_field: but given as the protocol has no authentication, these could vomit forth literally anything
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: there wouldn't be any '-connect' on pogo net
ascii_field: i am reaching the conclusion that: to the extent bitcoin relies on political time AT ALL, it is broken.
ascii_field: even if the thing had a battery-backed otc, there would remain the question of how to set it
trinque will ponder the mysteries of pogotime over food matter
trinque: maybe without the rtc it's a leaky boat
trinque: but in either case
ascii_field: trinque: 50 is almost TRIPLE the cost of a pogo
punkman: the parasitic timestamp fetching is not a bad idea though
trinque: so you don't like the outboard rtc?
ascii_field: the time problem has to be solved
ascii_field: and yes, i expect the pipe to be maximally hostile
ascii_field: jurov: realize that, at the moment, we do not have separate code for servicing peers you added manually vs ones dredged up from the seedlist
trinque: I dunno any additional complexity is "cheaper" than the extra 25 bucks or w/e for the clock
trinque: incidentally I have found tinc to be rather fucking nice for p2p networking
trinque: but then I suppose that suffers from attacks against the routing involved to get to that IP
jurov: have we fixed the peer selection? if peers are to be configured manually, they are trustworthy enough to fetch time from, no?
ascii_field: trinque: yes. costs about what the pogo does
trinque: surely there's a tiny USB rtc
ascii_field: the only solution i can presently think of is a variant of ntp over gossipd.
trinque: ascii_field: does not seem there's any sense in continuing on trying to do something distributed without an rtc
ascii_field: even a $1 rtc chip, the kind found on old pc mobos, would suffice
trinque: aside from having been set by me, using my cesium clock, then running on battery with an RTC thereafter
trinque: I don't see a way of getting the time that *doesn't* suffer from that
ascii_field: to be whatever the fuck he wants
ascii_field: trinque: realize that this can be manipulated by the enemy
trinque: so there's "network adjusted time" right?
ascii_field: perhaps the day finally came when everyone who could ever afford it - has bought
ascii_field: this is, incidentally, a much harder problem than the invention of bitcoin
ascii_field: part of block validation is 'is the timestamp <2h from now'
trinque: could you use the same sort of logic ntpd does against block timestamps?
ascii_field: the epoch thing is a more pressing matter
trinque: the thing's a network after all...
kakobrekla: we care for other people now ?
ascii_field: kakobrekla: ~other people~ use it
ben_vulpes: it is *live on the network*
ben_vulpes: kakobrekla: there's logic in even the RI codebase that does derpy shit if version numbers are below some critical value.
ascii_field: they could still attempt to filter, but it would have to be an open declaration of war. something the gavinists are rather averse to
kakobrekla: i dont see how maxint is better than '0' except for the pride parade
ben_vulpes: 2 be stealthy, advertise whatever "version" is "current" with the shitgnomes
ben_vulpes: imho there are 3 things to be done
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i brought up this point before. asked mircea_popescu why we insist on making it so easy for gavinists to wall off our net from the rubes. iirc mircea_popescu said 'fuck them all'
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: it doesn't make a practical difference, but it pins a pointless magic variable at its "infinity" value, in the zero, one infinity mapping.
mircea_popescu: if you mined and set the block version to maxint it might.
ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> also i verified that if version constant is set to 99999, https://getaddr.bitnodes.io agrees to see the node. unless someone gives a fuck, i will set it back to 0.5.4-beta later today << eeeheuhe
mircea_popescu: how the fuck we ended up with this situation where diff machiens have unequal times is beyond me
ascii_field: also i verified that if version constant is set to 99999, https://getaddr.bitnodes.io agrees to see the node. unless someone gives a fuck, i will set it back to 0.5.4-beta later today
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i have nfi why unixtime "locales" are implemented so braindamagedly anyway. all machines should have the same exact integer for time. then if you wish to localize it, localize it on top of that
ascii_field: but since i refuse to run ntp on the box, i ended up setting date manually when i was given it
kakobrekla: this suggests otherwise ?
kakobrekla: >A timestamp is accepted as valid if it is greater than the median timestamp of previous 11 blocks, and less than the network-adjusted time + 2 hours. "Network-adjusted time" is the median of the timestamps returned by all nodes connected to you.
ascii_field: kakobrekla: theoretically, epoch time is 'one for all of us, like victory'
ascii_field: i knew the basic fact of. but given as the box displayed correct wall time, did not think of it
ascii_field: if |your_epoch - block_epoch| > 2hour then lose
ascii_field: but what this means is that no, the thing won't correct for clock offset
ascii_field: i had the box set to my local time instead of gmt
ascii_field: the epoch thing
ascii_field: this is a rather worrisome discovery
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu turns out it was the epoch time
ben_vulpes: there's a whole sig* song and dance.
ben_vulpes: jurov: there's a bit more than that. did you read my subsequent link?
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: i do not yet know the answer to this
ben_vulpes: ascii_field: are blocks from headers-only miners coming out with timestamps too far in the future?
hdbuck: hello mircea_popescu, just passing by to say thx for the rating
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: ^^ the wot at work. ridiculous numbers aside, we tell stories of heroic deeds performed in service of the papers we sign.
ben_vulpes: "Oh, well, I had the contract, and I had to fill it!" And that was all he said.
ben_vulpes: So it was that C. B. returned to Hazelton afoot, limping into the hotel one snowy night in midwinter, "broke to the wide", but otherwise unconcerned.
ben_vulpes: Again he started out, this time with a hundred and twenty-eight dogs, and when he came to the place where he had turned back, he was able to feed the dogs on dead horse-meat, and so get through to the cabin where to two men were waiting. But on the return trip, the going was heavy and slow and he found that the worlves had reached the cache of horse-meat and finished it up, so the dogs were short of food and though he killed one after
ben_vulpes: Those supplies had to be delivered to the men patiently waiting for them at the far end of the trail, So he cached the supplies, hoiseted as many carcases of the dead horses as possible into trees where the wolves could not get them, and went all the way back to Hazelton to get dog-teams.
ben_vulpes: Every now and then a horse would miss its footing and go over, sometimes into the rushing river below, to be lost forever. Then it froze, and the going was hopeless. One by one the horses slipped and went down until it was impossible to go onward. C. B. shrugged his shoulders and altered his plans.
ben_vulpes: all next day and the following night without any let-up.
ben_vulpes: So C. B. at once set off north again witha pack-train of sixty-eight horses. He had no very great hope of being able to make his destination before the hard weather came on, but he traveled with all the speed possible, to get over the worst places on the trail before ths first snow fell. But as ill-luck would have it, it began to snow one night just as he came to the rock ledges where the going was bad at the best of times. It snowed
ben_vulpes: supplied -- and it was getting late in the autumn.
ben_vulpes: Story has it that he returned to Hazelton, once, after a trip up the Telegraph Trail, and there he found out that he had missed the farthest cabin of all, over two hundred miles away, and there were two men up there left without supplies for the winter. Either the Government had not made the tale of the cabins clear or C. B. himself had miscalculated. However that may have been, the plain fact remained that these two men had to be
ben_vulpes: The little Jap who, laughing up and down his sleeve goes cheerfully about his business in a gas-boat up the coast, or picks out the best small-fruit land in the country; the ubiquitous Chinaman, steadily cornering all the loose cash in the land -- of a surety these two know more of British Columbia than most white men!
kakobrekla: >but I can't fake the hashing power it needs to
ben_vulpes: The Americans come, with plenty of money, and stay at the much-advertised hotels, gulping down the Rockies in predigested doses, thenrace through in a Pullman car to the next big hotel on the coast. And how can they know anything of the province?
ascii_field: so i'm nearly certain that the timestamp ~2h epoch time window is the reason for wedged 0.5.x nodes, at this point
ben_vulpes: halls, about "great open spaces" and "the need for a population." But they know nothing of the real British Columbia.
ben_vulpes: "The English come out and travel through, knowing all about everything beforehand, as the English always do; and, having set standards, they compare the Fraser to the Thames (former too wide) and the Selkirks to the Cotswolds (former too high). They get out to spend a day or so at Lake Louise or Jasper, then get into the train again and stay there till they reach Vancouver. Then they go back to England and give vague lectures in town
ascii_field: anyone who sees a 'martian' version number from nosuchlabs public node, please don't be alarmed. running an experiment today, to determine whether we are being corralled by gavinists using advertised version constant
ascii_field: (for the exact instruction set supported, see the marvell datasheet posted ~6 mo. ago.)
ascii_field: the buildroot gives you the complete toolchain you need, independently from that of the box you're on
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 17:37:21; trinque: anyone know offhand if armv5tel-softfloat is the appropriate arch for pogo?
trinque: I tried building stator with arm-linux-gnueabi and it segfaults on the pogo
ben_vulpes: trinque: is that info missing from asciilifeform's post to the ml?
ben_vulpes: does anyone know at a high level how nginx does the "swap binary while running" trick?
trinque: anyone know offhand if armv5tel-softfloat is the appropriate arch for pogo?
ben_vulpes is late to the party. again.
ascii_field: they just happen to write turdware for usg.
ascii_field: gotta also love the clean, well-commented (italian!) cpp
mats: ain't the net a grand place?
ascii_field: in other nyooz, my portable test node is synced.
ben_vulpes: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/science/colorados-push-against-teenage-pregnancies-is-a-startling-success.html << I don't know why the conservatives with all their hate for welfare programs aren't pro-free-contraception
punkman: ascii_field: not sure what you mean with "but not move the local epoch time"
ascii_field: seems like logical thing to do would be to accept the block but not move the local epoch time if the block's time is an outlier ?
punkman: ascii_field:rejects too far in the future because it wants to keep "network time" within some bounds
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 15:03:24; mircea_popescu: danielpbarron ideally take them apart and send them as parts he says
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189377 << don't lose the steel plate that sits under the pcb - it's the only heatsink
kakobrekla: speed is a function of time and distance, so you need to know how much time has passed in the 2016 blocks, right?
ben_vulpes: punkman: shouldn't that be a function of the number of blocks since the last difficulty adjustment?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
shinohai: I should be so clever as to come up with ideas like this, to relieve redditors of their monies.
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 12:37:30; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189168 << danielpbarron plox send the man a dozen pogos an' me the shipping bill. jurov send him an address.
williamdunne: asciilifeform: What marks would these be?
asciilifeform: because what i am seeing has every mark of an orchestrated attack against degavinated network, under the smoke cover of the ph0rk aftermath
asciilifeform: and is anyone else experiencing a wedged 0.5.x node of the precise kind i have ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu that box really hasn't sufficient i/o to comfortably house phuctor and node. but i presently haven't any other place to put a node.
pete_dushenski: if not, i'm there
asciilifeform: and also, as before, ERROR: CheckBlock() : block timestamp too far in the future ERROR: ProcessBlock() : CheckBlock FAILED
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://36.media.tumblr.com/853da9c157c3a3129d72bdf4892949fb/tumblr_mttcnr7D0x1sjgtlbo1_1280.jpg
punkman: asciilifeform: does it sit there doing nothing while wedged?
asciilifeform: these are running 100% identical 'stator'
williamdunne: "Powered in Theory"
williamdunne: "As worldwide interest in the Intheorum network increases success may overwhelm Bob alone. Foreseeing this problem we are planning Inthereum 2.0 technology to incorporate JENNYCHAIN, TIMCHAIN, SALLYCHAIN technology."
williamdunne: Intheoreum 1.0 will uses a cutting edge client/server hybrid peer to peer model. Bob is simultaneously your slave and your master. Our testing phase is complete and the Bobchain is live.
punkman: "The only limit on what you can do with Intheoreum is Bob himself. The Bobchain is nothing more than a man in a room maintaining the state of the intheoreum network with Number 2 Pencil technology."
shinohai: > Bob controls a worldwide public record of all transactions and is provably arbitrary. We call this record, the Bobchain.
williamdunne: intheoreum
williamdunne: intheorium
shinohai: ^Etherum lol
assbot: Forget Bitcoin — What Is the Blockchain and Why Should You Care? | Re/code ... ( http://bit.ly/1HHgk1p )
shinohai: http://recode.net/2015/07/05/forget-bitcoin-what-is-the-blockchain-and-why-should-you-care/
jurov: oh. i was not under impression that i'll be running them all. but 4-5 can be defo arranged
davout: with a bit of luck you'll be at the other end of the classical reddit: "o, i dumped my hdd with over 9000 btc on it and now i'm shoveling through the landfill"
jurov: aha ok, thanks you all, send as many as you wish, i can forward them
jurov: if it's shipped from murica maybe it's better to disassemble them, mark as "parts" so that customs aren't tempted to "fix" the declared price
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 07:26:33; jurov: <mircea_popescu> [20150706 01:30] btw, jurov, did you want some pogos shipped << yes davout offered but then went silent
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189168 << danielpbarron plox send the man a dozen pogos an' me the shipping bill. jurov send him an address.
mircea_popescu: real reforms = raping "the needy" with a pointed stick. it is morally wrong to be needy and full fucking stop.
mircea_popescu: "It is, therefore, essential that the great capital bestowed upon our government by the splendid NO vote be invested immediately into a YES to a proper resolution to an agreement that involves debt restructuring, less austerity, redistribution in favour of the needy, and real reforms."
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 05:35:37; ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (though there is some debate as to whether it matters ~which~ type of cousin one fucks) << generally just the girls
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 05:20:41; cazalla: ben_vulpes, so you base an entire nation on the few you've met.. gee get a load of this racist
shinohai: @ jurov did u manage to get the torrent yet?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1189127 << kinda the way it goes neh ? project this large, be happy if you can get away with just one machine.
punkman: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/05/the-women-who-secretly-keep-isis-running.html
williamdunne: Wonder if the source code is worth shit
williamdunne: kakobrekla: I particularly like that it includes their router password
mircea_popescu: The latest Tweets from Christian Pozzi (@christian_pozzi): "We are closing down. Bye Saudi Arabia. You paid us well. Allahuhakbah."
mircea_popescu: ok well since everyone thinks this so important ima have a machine contribute too, just fgor the seeding
jurov: but my deluge has serious problem digesting there linked torrent
jurov: they waited until noone was on watch in #b-a
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla apparently a dump of emails and other things
kakobrekla still has no idea wtf the thing is
mircea_popescu: the 400gb thing
mircea_popescu confesses to not having bothered.
cazalla: with the amount of confiscated hand guns featured on this twitter account, how the fuck does it not make the news erry day or is it simply the case they run the story every 3 months to keep to fresh
punkman: BingoBoingo: was thinking of a "bailout timeline" thing after the dust settles
jurov: <mircea_popescu> [20150706 01:30] btw, jurov, did you want some pogos shipped << yes davout offered but then went silent
punkman: "I was running bitcoin core version 0.9 which accepted an invalid chain not adhering to the BIP66 protocol changes. This prompted me to upgrade immediately, however the new version is taking the already accepted blocks as already verified."
punkman: "The Greek Premier Alexis Tsipras is suffering from Herpes Labialis due to the stress of the last days."
BingoBoingo: https://slimgur.com/images/2015/07/06/175a29e69a614ab0a194d4bd3c1a5220.md.png << Related to the BIP process
punkman: guess the job doesn't pay well enough
punkman: he got the "no" he wanted
ben_vulpes: <decimation> heh do a few cycles in the gentoo barrel << tomorrow mayhap. tonight, the canadians have interesting ingestibles.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (though there is some debate as to whether it matters ~which~ type of cousin one fucks) << generally just the girls
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> (oop systems which aren't clos (or possibly smalltalk's, and generally meta-object-able) are like btc securities exchanges which aren't mpex.) << by virtue of living in the shit your whole life, you'll be able to read it.
cazalla: ben_vulpes, so you base an entire nation on the few you've met.. gee get a load of this racist
decimation: yeah, I've seen the screenshots for 'zmacs'
ben_vulpes: <cazalla> the irish have been flooding aussie shores for the past few years << met another ozzie this wknd
decimation: heh. I'm not much of a lisp guy, but the ones I know aren't a fan of emacs lisp
ben_vulpes: irc bouncer implementation's a good thing to have in the interim.
ben_vulpes: <cazalla> the irish have been flooding aussie shores for the past few years << ugh i met another ozzie today
decimation: or the gossipd thing
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: heh do a few cycles in the gentoo barrel
decimation: I just didn't trust it by the smell
ben_vulpes: oh you rejected it before you figured out that editing the config files while the thing waas running would fly it straight into the wall at 0.8 mach?
decimation: heh yeah I looked at the znc config as said 'fuck this shit'
ben_vulpes: good with high latency, network-hopping, all of the travails of diginomad life.
decimation: oh wait is that the supposed ssh replacement
decimation: ben_vulpes: I switched to erc, have seen the light
mircea_popescu: don't look at me, it's all them.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> just think of the moral degeneration from ~that~ << those grapes aren't whine yet.
mircea_popescu: im sure it's there anyway, but hey.
mircea_popescu: <mats> you'll not enjoy reading the key server code then << im kinda curious how this thing will go down :D
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am deliberately trampling that convention. fuck them.
decimation: the supreme irony being that the story is that 'nato won' because of capitalist efficency
decimation: they only had to build planes, not employ zombies
decimation: asciilifeform: this is why the ru military were able to make fighters that match nato's for orders of magnitude less cash
asciilifeform: which also means that there is that much more to be embezzled via meta-armies of imaginary labourers
asciilifeform: decimation: the process of crafting, concealing, and then digging up '0days' is extremely labour-intensive
decimation: asciilifeform: what gets my goat are the constant pleadings for money money and power to do 'cyber'
decimation: even microsoft needs a tcp/ip stack - reminds me of your blog post on 'the burden of supporting all the world'
asciilifeform: if 'selling the rope with which to be hanged'
asciilifeform: at the very least, ought to charge
asciilifeform: what i'd like to see happen is for all the poor schmucks who report, e.g., a 'xen' 0day, to 'cert' et al, to understand that they are ~weaponsmithing for usg for free~
asciilifeform: decimation: notice that 'winblows' now includes much of the unixlike world, in practice.
asciilifeform: at any rate, the offenders for this last item are known, habitual, and loudly unrepentant.
asciilifeform: every devil, great and small, held up by his hindlegs over the fire will say exactly same thing: 'mistake'
asciilifeform: i personally refuse to make any distinction between someone who wrote, e.g., 'heartbleed', into existence - and some other fella who ~knew of it and didn't tell me~
decimation: ironically usg uses the same formula for 'extending protection'
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 01:24:01; mircea_popescu: "you wanted to benefit from responsible disclosure protections, you should have been in the wot" "but at the time i made that decision it seemed a no brainer, why expend the effort" "right. this is why you die."
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188887 << on top of this, the folks who informed 'amazon' and other usgtronic entities about the xen holes, etc. long before mortals were shown - are legitimate targets.
decimation: but getting it to cough up full stacktraces is a pain in the ass
assbot: Logged on 06-07-2015 00:48:54; mircea_popescu: decimation their branchline is in no sense backwards. it is currently the consensus of thinking people (alf said "ru", but really, i agree, everyone with any sense agrees, ru is no determinant) that they are in point of fact broadly correct,
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=06-07-2015#1188872 << mistake to symlink 'the west is moribund' and 'la ilaha illa'llah Muhammadun rasul Allah' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: if the effect were not so brute, it would've made a good star in an 'underhanded c contest' entry.
asciilifeform: mats: fact of the matter is, the machine behaves in a way which will probably surprise most readers.