asciilifeform: whereas if you feed the hobos when paying folks aren't bidding, you get essentially same situation as fees
mircea_popescu: of course it could fed the discarded txn
asciilifeform: (right now this would have the effect of essentially unplugging my node)
asciilifeform: well, and one other thing - what does payware node feed non-payers ?
mircea_popescu: looky : there are parts where we may... ever so slightly... deviate.
asciilifeform: which is odd, does not correspond to the formula given
asciilifeform: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3fk3p9/a_single_political_entity_effectively_has_57 << philippino up the thread, naturally
kakobrekla: 'Furthermore, the final program did not work reliably when it was loaded onto other FPGAs of the same type.' < fun
kakobrekla: It seems that evolution had not merely selected the best code for the task, it had also advocated those programs which took advantage of the electromagnetic quirks of that specific microchip environment. The five separate logic cells were clearly crucial to the chip’s operation, but they were interacting with the main circuitry through some unorthodox method < heh
asciilifeform: 'what did the future ever do for me' (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: we're discussing the future.
asciilifeform: i see no glue, thus far. only the utterance.
mircea_popescu: it's not fucking magic, yo. utterance is not the glue that makes it stick.
asciilifeform: these words are uttered, yes, today. by childrenz who 'code' php...
mircea_popescu: perhaps this is the next one.
mircea_popescu: but it goes all the way to the fucking celts, you knoiw, "you never had iron tools. everything you say, and everything you think you mean or stand for is therefore invalid"
mircea_popescu: and it stands. no man can look you in the face past that, for he's a sort of a toy.
asciilifeform: as for the deliberate alt, it is somewhat like the ancient discussion about whether one would rather be 'scanned in' and shot and ~then~ replaced by the robot running the sim, or to have a neuron at a time replaced with electric one
mircea_popescu: for kids born in the 80s when talking to their parents it's "shut the fuck up, you fucked women in a single hole your entire life"
mircea_popescu: every generation has this, an overpowering, indomitable reason why the previous one fails to matter.
asciilifeform: and they all have appendicitis.
scoopbot_revived: The very very jealous with envy thing, part deux. http://trilema.com/2015/the-very-very-jealous-with-envy-thing-part-deux/
mircea_popescu: but that aside, naggum's via alf point re complexity being usually and generally as a safe bet the result of someone missing the thinkboat certainly stands resplendent on its own feet.
assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 22:11:06; asciilifeform: jurov: his position, if you recall, is that we are more or less stuck with the turds forever.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222669 << the problem is this : you have to verify old blocks. all of them, al lthe way to genesis. if you do not, for whatever reason, you are on an alt. and if you're going to make an alt, better make it properly and deliberately rather than the idiot woman "i had too much too drink so things happened" approach.
mircea_popescu: eulora is suddenly more advanced than the state of new york.
assbot: The complexity of life, a triad on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1LZbV9r )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/the-complexity-of-life-a-triad/ < dragonfly article.
mircea_popescu: contemptible with the pyramids.
kakobrekla: compatible with the pyramids or what was it
kakobrekla: The BIOS in many personal computers stores the date and time in BCD because the MC6818 real-time clock chip used in the original IBM PC AT motherboard provided the time encoded in BCD. < heh
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 19:07:33; mircea_popescu: look. whatever whatever may be built as or not, i have two basic expectations. one is, for fucking machinery to behave the same way from night to next evening. the other, albeit weaker, is that if i get a "minimal work" thing i actually have to do minimal work.
asciilifeform: the fact that there is no standardized chipset, and that x86 is really a loose collection of mostly-incompatible shitboxes that somehow pretend to run the same soft - matters.
asciilifeform: the fact that x86 cpu has idiot ibm-mandated instructions for doing binary-coded-decimal - MATTERS
asciilifeform: is the fundamental lie.
asciilifeform: the notion that it doesn't, that it doesn't matter whether bootloader is six bytes of liquid shit heavier,
asciilifeform: for instance, the 'a20 gate' is almost certainly not actually implemented in your chipset
asciilifeform: read the src to linux's bootloader some time
punkman: Ada on bare metal then?
asciilifeform: but that winblowz makes the kind of certainty needed to avoid the 'grasping for the handrails' described earlier, impossible
asciilifeform: (leading to a lifelong phobia of that key on the keyboard)
asciilifeform: it is a result of the kind of cargocultism driven by justified and maniacal fear that leads, e.g., c programmers to pepper their code with redundant parenthesis
punkman: clearly not understood considering the number of results in https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/search?q=deadlock&type=Issues
asciilifeform: or are they something else.
asciilifeform: are those the work of a fella who truly, deeply understood what the machine is doing?
asciilifeform: observe the 'CRITICAL_SECTION' turds in bitcoind
asciilifeform: this is why, to return to earlier thread, pdp11 programmed by a single mind who writes every single instruction that the machine will ever execute, can be a jewel that is maintained for generations,
asciilifeform: i happen to believe that we have not yet devised the means for truly separating - conceptually - computer programs
punkman: asciilifeform: all works of man are either 'fits in head' or 'pile of shit', no exceptions << don't some things require more than a single head?
asciilifeform: painful process that they are loathe to reopen or examine at all no matter how hard it is to get it right for them.'
asciilifeform: '...But it is the same problem we find in C++. The question to be asked of massive complexity like that is not "what wonderful things did you find out that made this necessary", but "whatever did you _miss_ that made this so horribly complex"? You can sometimes see people who are really, really dumb go about some simple tasks in a way that tells you that they have arrived at their ways of performing it through an incredibly
asciilifeform: at the end of this long process of grasping something that looked intellectually challenging lie only a complexity that resulted from _rejecting_ simplicity of design at a few crucial points. Hell, it still took me years to figure out what alternatives they _should_ have picked up, and by then it was too late.'
asciilifeform: t was the first time I had really serious doubts about the wisdom of SGML's structuring process, because the massive complexity of it all is _completely_ pointless and a result of spreading the semantics so thin that you had to keep mental track of an enormous number of relationships to end up with an idea of what something should do or mean. It does not have to be that way. It was _profoundly_ disappointing to discover that
asciilifeform: d some of the designs and how it would be implemented, and he was quiet for the longest time before he said that I was probably the first person to have understood what he was _really_ trying to accomplish. That would have been _such_ a great thing if it had been, say, rocket science, but it was not. It was a man-made complexity so great that it had required _months_ of brain-wracking to really get my intuition working. Tha
asciilifeform: 'Overriding and updating old information is something I have to work really hard at. The end result of the way I think and the way the standard is defined is that I immediately saw these massively complex ways to do things that "nobody" understood. Take HyTime and what it calls "architectual forms" -- I vividly remember a long walk around a quiet Tallahassee one summer night with the creator of this concept, when I questione
asciilifeform: but there has to be... ~a~ head.
asciilifeform: all works of man are either 'fits in head' or 'pile of shit', no exceptions
asciilifeform: and that there is not a magical elixir that absolves you of the need to 'fit in head'
asciilifeform: and that if you are using a pile of shit which fits in no one's head, don't be surprised when the inevitable happens
asciilifeform: jurov: his position, if you recall, is that we are more or less stuck with the turds forever.
asciilifeform: jurov: this kind of thing is at the root of a very old disagreement i have with mircea_popescu
jurov: just asking, i wouldn't put it past them
trinque: the lcov stuff would probably be more helpful with a battery of tests run upon it such as mod6 has discussed
asciilifeform: trinque, ben_vulpes, anyone else with 'clang' -- here's an idea, use the graph-walker solrodar used to determine the subset of openssl (see old thread re: same)
williamdunne: jurov: What would you like on the Eurola website? Starting out with clisp so I'll see if I can get that done as my hello world project
assbot: luke-jr comments on Could a cartel of pool operators collude to 51%-attack the blockchain and/or change the protocol? ... ( http://bit.ly/1OJ7QFR )
asciilifeform: the main allure, for me, was 1) drepper goes to the furnace where he belongs; no glibc 2) can switch cpu arch by turning a knob
mod6: i like the allure of this.
decimation: just make sure you are using the correct paths
mod6: i.e. I dont have to rebuild the buildroot & "universe" every time I want to add a patch, just rebuild 'stator'.
decimation: http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/07/26/the_identity_crisis_of_the_modern_zoo/ < amusing: "“If you asked somebody in our profession 10 years ago, ‘Is the gorilla happy?’, they would get really upset and say, ‘Why would you ask such an anthropomorphic question?’ ” said Kagan, 57. “But these sort of things now are legitimately a part of scientific study and assessment.”"
asciilifeform: after that, it is precisely the same as working with 'stator'
asciilifeform: mod6: note that the toolchain and deps build only ever needs to be done once, per machine
asciilifeform: just the regs
mod6: if someone with some spare time can validate my findings that would be great -- these are just the first two of a number of these that need to be discovered/defined
mod6: I've tested installing the iso's indicated on a VM and went through my own steps 2x (once for each OS)
mod6: All: I've put some steps together for installing ubuntu 10.04 & debian 6.0.10
asciilifeform: instead, 'deadbugging' several duds over one another
asciilifeform: the ibm pc, recall, was that abomination where they didn't even bother to use dram chips that passed qa
asciilifeform: the thing was, in every respect, a 'soviet' production in the stereotypical western sense of the word
decimation: true. people who wanted 'adult' computers in the 80's, had
asciilifeform: and secretary (who did the job 10x better, but...)
asciilifeform: either.
asciilifeform: and consider also that, of all the toy computers, the one with the singularly worst design in every conceivable way, won.
decimation: based on that 'bil herd' interview, it sounds like the board designers and chip designers worked in same building, with fab!
asciilifeform: not the cpu
decimation: oh I thought they used 6502 like everyone else
asciilifeform: it is a priceless tour of 1980s chip design, among other things
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo "as was the case with this one." << link missing ? << That's a cazalla
asciilifeform: the reason why 'physical function' is that it ought to be precisely a ~function~
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was thinking about generating key in a seperate machine and then 'hand-carving' the pcb to store key
asciilifeform: decimation: what is the point of it
decimation: actually that gives me another idea: http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/lichtenbergs.html
asciilifeform: very often, folks forget just how much analogue strange there is in the world, that is kept (mostly) out of their digital computer
asciilifeform: just don't be surprised when it stops working when it is wet/cold/hot in the room
asciilifeform: then sure
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform just an exotic way to rng, is in the end what he was trying to build
asciilifeform: but it doesn't do any good unless there are 2 of'em (at minimum)
asciilifeform: the 'crushed glass secret key' was picked up by academitards as 'physically unclonable function'
mircea_popescu: so you know... some people generate their keys at the firing range. some people have a designated bat. some people make a new key after each domestic argument/divorce
mircea_popescu: you plug the thing in whatever.
decimation: the breakage geometry you mean?
mircea_popescu: you buy 6x6 inch panbes of glass and crash them
decimation: if one is clever, one could make the tank circuit out of pure pcb trace, making it cheaper. 'crosstalk' could be a problem though
decimation: asciilifeform: was thinking about that 'pcb card' problem. what if you terminated each trace into its own tank circuit, and then 'probed' the circuit with a vna?
mircea_popescu: "the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia authorized a search warrant" << for the record, this is not how it works. a judge authorises it, and im nary too enchanted by this tendency of individuals to hide behind imaginary shields.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "as was the case with this one." << link missing ?
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2014 01:03:00; asciilifeform: 'Industry is the only true source of wealth, and there was no industry in Rome. By day the Ostia road was crowded with carts and muleteers, carrying to the great city the silks and spices of the East, the marble of Asia Minor, the timber of the Atlas, the grain of Africa and Egypt; and the carts brought nothing out but loads of dung. That was their return cargo. London turns dirt into gold. Rome turne
asciilifeform: world's biggest unsurprise. of what is there most in a city? shit
asciilifeform: ^ was big business esp. in the brief time when piss was boiled for nitrate
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: usually in china they put it through a pig first. but yes.
decimation: re:immigrants -> it seems to me that there is a difference between "we have empty land that someone could show up and till" and "one more derp could survive on the scraps here"
mircea_popescu: (for the obvious reason - what do you think earth is after all. microorganism digested shit)
mircea_popescu: thing is - there's more nutritious matter in shit.
asciilifeform: in the '90s
assbot: Haitians trick empty bellies with dirt cookies - The Boston Globe ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qKZK )
mircea_popescu: is this more jenkem journalism from the jenkem journals ?
asciilifeform: decimation: i suppose they haven't any accordions to boil
asciilifeform: (they will, from lack of what else, eventually)
mircea_popescu: they like live flesh about as much as you like birdshit.
asciilifeform: the only shred of logic in there is that the maggots sometimes do feast on living flesh
mircea_popescu: somehow the immigrants weren't the problem back when azns were washing gold miner's shirts for a penny
mircea_popescu: the idea that immigration is the problem is braindamage of the level of thinking the maggots made the corpse.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'there is no resisting ants and flies, giraffe fell, elephant fell'
asciilifeform: what do we need the extra people post-1900 for anyway
trinque: that's the economic side's fault
mircea_popescu: there's no resisting immigration. vienna fell. byzantium fell.
asciilifeform: wake me up when they reach 1900 level and still drop
decimation: except they are not reproducing
asciilifeform: resists, to the bitter end.
jurov: is there any successful example of resisting immigration?
mircea_popescu: what';d you have them to, wait on rpietilla ?
mircea_popescu: finnish chicks want the cock, what.
decimation: of course they are hateful racists for suggesting it
asciilifeform: decimation: they envy sweden its great mosques
mircea_popescu: there hasn't yet in the history of mankind been a wealth marriage that was happy. and "free immigraton" is notexceptional just because large.
mircea_popescu: because the people you want don't want you, and the people you want you nobody wants.
asciilifeform: (in more recent times, the 'loot' is in the form of bait, handed out monthly at welfare office)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for as long as china takes the coupons...
mircea_popescu: which is ~why~ the libertard open border stuff doesn't work.
asciilifeform: when there is what to loot..
mircea_popescu: the rest just loot and leave.
mircea_popescu: the retards - stay.
mircea_popescu: heck, 50% of the 1st generation immigrants return home with the loot, marry and live there.
asciilifeform: jurov: it is the very meaning of the word 'addiction' as commonly used. (no one speaks of being 'addicted' to air, sunlight, etc)
mircea_popescu: and re the myth of the west, there was that trilema article linked from a recent one, "florida and other places".
mircea_popescu: prolly 1/4 of russia or so, cause they're orc-er.
asciilifeform: (they are anyway, but slowly)
decimation: but at least at that time they could buy a cheap farm in kansas
decimation: usa was kinda like this in the 1800's
assbot: Logged on 28-07-2015 04:36:46; asciilifeform: 'hot', in this case, being the world of the coolie, and 'cold' being the world he aspires to enter (or at least send his children to, oxbridge and harvaprinceyaleton)
decimation: somehow people from Eritrea are convinced that if they only make it to the uk they can supports their entire families!
asciilifeform: (or get into the jail, where, approximately, same)
asciilifeform: not even being planted nose-first into the genuine pile of shit, has any curative effect
decimation: yeah you could tell the guy was disappointed with his situation
asciilifeform: back to the earlier observation, the attachment orcs have to the myth of 'the west' is a truly religious affair
assbot: BBC iPlayer - The Bank: A Matter of Life and Debt - 3. Lending ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5qb2h )
decimation: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b061xf9j/the-bank-a-matter-of-life-and-debt-3-lending < can watch here if you manage to obtain uk ip
asciilifeform: must have been filmed a while ago, these figures would probably have an extra trailing zero today
asciilifeform: very few orcs have the brains to even consider this formula
decimation: later in the episode he managed to somehow get an offer from the uk govt - he could buy his flat for 20k pounds
asciilifeform: ~i don't give a fuck~ what you're paid, how much of it do you get to ~keep~, and how much time do you get to sit in the warm house and drink tea and not think of work
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see also the idiocy of 'skeumorphism'
decimation: he complained that in afghanistan, everything is free - but people are poor and live in mud huts. they envy the english for their warm houses &etc. but now he works 12 hour days to try to make rent, pay bills - and never has time to enjoy his warm house
decimation: I was watching a 'banking' show on the BBC the other day. it featured a young afghan who managed to make it from goat-fuck-stan to the uk welfare state
decimation: much of it stems from "need to hustle to make money, use what's on the shelf and make it fit"
mircea_popescu: nonsensical gimmicks of the ilk of "stop fucking your sister or else santa won't bringf you presents" and "eat your veggies so you can overpower your sister and stick it in her"
mircea_popescu: but other than that, it's as useful as "wysiwyg" or "point and click" or "just works!"
mircea_popescu: it had its importance selling technology to the retards.
decimation: actually you could argue that 'email' as a concept is 'let's pretend we are working at the post office'
mircea_popescu: imagine if every so often i had to click here to see if there's new lines
asciilifeform: 'the real computer' was and is programmed in asm ab initio - yes, from entirely empty space; for every task.
mircea_popescu: i suspect this is actually the correct definition of "text" for computing.
chetty: feed the computer anything, with front panel switches
asciilifeform: and you can tell from a distance when a sector of civilization has been consumed by the cancer
asciilifeform: but jurov isn't wrong, per se, there probably ~is~ a reactor somewhere handled by four java boxes trying to cover for each other's garbagecollector pauses
asciilifeform: jurov: go feed it the text
assbot: Logged on 03-05-2015 03:40:09; decimation: he said recently a sea change has come with kids coming out of school; they want to specify massive cpu, memory for very simple micro-controllers so they can run java
assbot: Logged on 03-05-2015 03:39:28; decimation: asciilifeform: I have a friend who is an old graybeard EE, been working on actual circuitry since the 80's
jurov: and i strongly suspect the computers of yore aren't what alf imagines, either. have them eat a text with arbitrary linelengths and see
mircea_popescu: a world of play-pretend like they're adults and doing things
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 1) nothing realtime-reactive runs in java 2) the counter overflows after what was it, 8 months of continuous engine time ????
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your idea of nuke plants is more akin to a UP's big boy control hatch. this is not how they work, whole shit's run in java these days. for that matter - remember the recent airbus which had all 4 engines stop because counter smash issues ?
scoopbot_revived: Line betting on BitBet, July 2015 http://thewhet.net/2015/line-betting-on-bitbet-july-2015/
assbot: Logged on 02-08-2015 20:02:14; mircea_popescu: siemens is "german" in the sense tsipras is "greek" and so on. absolutely nothing to do.
asciilifeform: can't get the pdp new.
asciilifeform: this is because the poor saps were stuck buying new
asciilifeform: jurov is almost certainly thinking of the refinery
asciilifeform: largely autonomous from the shitputer
asciilifeform: and i'd bet good money that there is, somewhere deep inside that win2k reactor, a real computer
asciilifeform: jurov: the thing is, nothing is built from the ground up (except for the circus mentioned earlier just now by mircea_popescu) with 'excel'. the infrastructure is running on fumes
mircea_popescu: (gauss copula, look into that sometime. if you want "pseudoscience that burned the world", global warming's nothing, witch hunts are nothing, this thing ruioned trillions)
mircea_popescu: or my info as to how the entire fucking house of cards came down chiefly bewcause some idiots were doing copula calculations
jurov: (i mean, when they are installed, hopefully not when they are built. but not sure on that, either)
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (or even valid in a block) << they are not valid. they are spendable for reasons that have to do with what the protocol says, ie, unintentionally.
mircea_popescu: anyway, re punkman's reddit link - the tards miss the fruit and focus on the pit of that thing, as usual.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-08-2015#1222307 << no shit. and if i'd learned it, wouldn't need the diagram.
mircea_popescu: siemens is "german" in the sense tsipras is "greek" and so on. absolutely nothing to do.
decimation: where's the german alternative to microsoft?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> can give the 'atoms' electrostatic-style charge, so they repel, and the bonds - 'strain', so they contract << this is actually a pretty great idea. and then run iterations over the thing until stable.
shinohai: I m syncing the dark side's wallet, keeps crashing with CDB: Error -30974, can't open database
mod6: <asciilifeform> interestingly, incitatus synced and stayed synced today << ahh ok, thanks for the heads up
shinohai: I had hoped you could churn out another story based on that xD
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Nope. Jericho it turns out is not actually Cecil's brother. CNN is just listening to any crank who calls in.
punkman: "Reportedly, Koko enjoys seeing human nipples and will request her female caregivers to show them to her on occasion. This has resulted in sexual harassment lawsuits by caregivers who have felt pressured by Patterson to show their nipples to Koko against their will. Attorney Jody Weiner, who previously represented KoKo in licensing agreements, writes that he should have recognized warning signs of a sex scandal. "
shinohai: LOL BingoBoingo haz to update his article: http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/02/world/cecil-the-lion-brother-jericho-alive/
kakobrekla: >I cooked up a multi-user general ledger system based on this hardware in '79. My client was a rural Iowa accountant who (what a prophet!) was afraid of hacks, so he insisted it NOT be compatible with anything else on the planet. So, though NorthStar DOS was way ahead of it's time, I had to ditch it. I burned my own boot EPROMs, wrote the whole thing using Ashley's assembler. You just can't do that anymore.
mircea_popescu: <jurov> in these parts most reactors reportedly run on win2k << why not me while at it.
jurov: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/btc-dev.mbox.xz this one is from july 3
assbot: The Kafka Project | English | My Destination (transl. Alex Flores) ... ( http://bit.ly/1HiriDN )
jurov: in these parts most reactors reportedly run on win2k
jurov: yes they do
asciilifeform: when a pc runs reactor - yes, that is the end.
asciilifeform: the thing that ~must~ be understood is that the ancient iron is maintained entirely, wholly, as a shield against microshitification