mircea_popescu: ascii_field obviously. i'm just saying, you know, here's where the shore is. for all the puddles pretending to be rivers.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> that said, yes, people who disregard their own property can "mess around" with your property. for instance, a guy that doesn't give a shit about his 50k car can drive it through your front door. << Incidently used care prices are finally returning to "normal" pre-Obola-cash-for-clunkers depreciation curve. Thousand dollar cars are a thing again. Soon it will probably be possible to acquire a car capable of providi
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla iirc they're at 133 mb now.
kakobrekla: wasnt there a 20mb version also
kakobrekla: wait bip101 is autherd by ga and suggest 8mb
gribble: Stephen Pair on Twitter: "We support the adoption of BIP 101 for ...: <https://twitter.com/spair/status/634174754879078400>; Stephen Pair: BitPay supports the adoption of BIP 101 for increasing ...: <https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3hod9r/stephen_pair_bitpay_supports_the_adoption_of_bip/>; Blocktrail now shows pools supporting 8MB blocks and BIP101 ...: (1 more message)
ascii_field: <mircea_popescu> "oh, millenium times" what the fuck derp argument is that. you get the same 25 btc << can't transact!
mircea_popescu: perfectly valid fork that doesn't run into (the mostly valid) problem you raise.
mircea_popescu: "oh, millenium times" what the fuck derp argument is that. you get the same 25 btc for mining a block, here or there. each hash is worth the same.
mircea_popescu: that'd have been the HONEST approach to xt, were xt actually powered by the stuff they claim it to be powered by.
ascii_field: (with the hash power typically available to a forker)
ascii_field: because then you get millenium-long block times
mircea_popescu: all the altcoin scammers ever did, of course, but for a very transparent reason.
ascii_field: regardless of where you start the diff,
punkman: you can't fork the chain at genesis
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: only reason is to hitch a phree ride on the existing allocations
mircea_popescu: since we're doing nonsense ("you can't teach a class in nonsense. but the history of nonsnese - that's scholarship!"), can anyone explain why exactly would a hard fork not start with its own genesis ? outside of the fundamentally fraudulent, pious or otherwise, attempt to pretend like it's something it is most assuredly not ?
ascii_field: and won't un-mix the mixed s-coin when it ends up everywhere
ascii_field: one hypothesis of mine is that the 'anti-bomb' will help not at all unless dropped ~prior~ to the s-bomb
trinque: supposing it ends up expected that clients have a sort of "spam" list of bitcoin addresses they ignore
ascii_field: inventors live, typically, with a strong but arguably justifiable sense of being scammed by their fellow man collectively.
mircea_popescu: the war needn't end.
ascii_field: the inventor is always at war with everyone else.
mircea_popescu: heck, the absence of social recognition for this is why i won't have kids.
mircea_popescu: there is nothing wrong with preserving the originator's exercisable right to end his progeniture.
ascii_field: that would be the only surviving fork!
ascii_field: but if the bomb fell,
ascii_field: spoiler: the anti-bomb is to make satoshi's blocks unspendable.
ascii_field: trinque: read to the end.
trinque: perhaps that was a veiled threat to use the bomb
trinque: ascii_field: ah yep, read that. and it wouldn't surprise me if A was an intentional kill switch, even less so with the hypothetical "failed project"
mike_c: my mother thought I should be a lawyer
mircea_popescu: i hope me and mike_c die in the same plane crash and i get to hear him talk it over with ol' paulie.
mike_c: Meaning the fixing was only worth doing for a smaller number of years.
mike_c: Not exactly five years - It's a lot of work. This work wasn't necessarily worth it before enough people took the right notice and the project got some traction
assbot: Loper OS » On the fact that Bitcoin has a Kill Switch; and how to disconnect it. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsImk2 )
mircea_popescu: i have no idea how any man can have the patience.
mike_c: yeah, but, we're fixing the napkin. plz don't blow it up yet mr. satoshi.
mircea_popescu: dja understand any minor mistake the man made PROTOTYPING is now preserved in billion dollars' worth of amber ?
mircea_popescu: mike_c "some reason" aka it's fucking stupid and who the fuck does this to people, takes their napkin sketches and puts it in a frame above the mantelpiece!
mike_c: could yes, but it feels like he'd be more likely to blow the whole fucking thing up for some reason rather than use his coins to influence policy.
mircea_popescu: the satosher errs only once!
mike_c: satoshi seems to just be holding the detonate button.
mircea_popescu: thoughts ? what thoughts. this is abuse. you want 12-c down the hall for thoughts.
felipelalli: thank you guys for the thoughts!
mircea_popescu: check it out thestringpuller you got better score than orlov.
thestringpuller: whether people like that or not is irrelevant
mircea_popescu: felipelalli that's exactly it : there can only be one, and miners don't pick it. mike has it.
mircea_popescu: christianity took over the decaying roman empire as the most concise, most popular embodiment of their hope and aspiration. the only such remaining - that even as they've failed, they still must survive "for there's nothing else".
mike_c: There can only be one.
felipelalli: punkman, this is true, and this is my main use of Bitcoin. I wouldn't be affected. Good point. But this is a little contradictory with the article "there is no such thing as cryptocurrencies". The idea is "There Can Be Only One"
trinque: hm, this brings to mind monotheism, as perhaps the source of this delusion of a singular agency over reality
mircea_popescu: and has so appeared, since before the greeks were invented.
punkman: felipelalli: nobody can steal your coins if you just sit on them and don't spend for a while
mircea_popescu: the world is not unipolar. even if, for various inhabitants of various rural places, it so appears.
ascii_field: get another one
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: except when they do
mircea_popescu: because it's their fucking car, and because if they fuck it up they don't get another one.
mircea_popescu: yet lo and behold that not so many people drive their car through other people's doors.
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsGWG5 )
felipelalli: mircea_popescu, I fully understood your point on that part, but it does not answer what if the miners decide to attack the actual Bitcoin making double spends, reverting transactions etc. They'll have this power. Read http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/
mircea_popescu: that said, yes, people who disregard their own property can "mess around" with your property. for instance, a guy that doesn't give a shit about his 50k car can drive it through your front door.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: ;;later tell BingoBoingo how's the riot
kakobrekla: insane keep their coins, sane wont touch exchanges
assbot: Let's address some of the more common pseudo-arguments raised by the very stupid people that like the Gavin scamcoin proposal on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsGAzl )
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/#selection-169.0-169.15
mike_c: in the meantime, everyone sane forks their coins, dumps the scam coin, and now the 60% miners are mining worthless coins.
felipelalli: trinque, I know, but vulnerable. Miners could use a portion of their hashpower just to mess around with the actual Bitcoin.
mike_c: majority of miners = 60%? Then 40% of miners stay on bitcoin and blocks take.. 25 minutes?
felipelalli: mircea_popescu, in other words: the decision of majority of miners could literally kill the actual Bitcoin. Make it unusable.
trinque: but then the agency there is just a metaphor, so I can see the argument that nothing was "taken over"
felipelalli: idea of that other article of yours "The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies"")
felipelalli: mircea_popescu, I read your articles. Actually I had read some parts before, but I read all over again. Unfortunately I didn't find the answer to my question. I understand that if miners just point to a "Scamcoin" (fork from Bitcoin) this is not Bitcoin, of course. But having them more hashpower, and the same type of hash function, this does not make the actual Bitcoin an "altcoin" and them vulnerable to attacks? (following the
ascii_field: in the sense that one ends up going to considerable lengths if wishing to avoid contact with it
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i think 'take over' here is in the sense microshit took over pc
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: would you say this means "hanging has taken over the us" ?
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow all white dudes in the us go hang themselves, leaving all the black dudes
ascii_field: trinque: for so long as it is displacing 'optional' items, rather than air, food (and can take considerable liberties with the latter!) - it lasts
mircea_popescu: how does this answer eiother a or b ?
ascii_field: sorta why i brought it up re: the simulacra thread.
ascii_field: nah, makes sense - build 100x fewer cars, let lusers watch films of cars, go 'vroom' in their minds
mircea_popescu: " What neither side seems to grasp is this: as the virtualized realm of cyberreality and social networking takes over daily life, the actual physical economy will matter less and less"
ascii_field: mr o, it appears, has somehow baked his whole mind around the idea that climatocalypse will cleanse away the sins of mankind
ascii_field: i don't barf from religion unless it genuinely interferes with the subject matter
mircea_popescu: events that increase in frequency due to the rapidly destabilizing climate." <<< ascii_field i'm sorry, what ?
mircea_popescu: "With each passing week more and more of us become ready to concede that economic growth is no longer possible. Economic development, on the old model, which UN Secretary Ban Ki-moon recently characterized as a global suicide pact, is becoming constrained by the limits of natural resources of the finite planet, energy, arable land and fresh water foremost among them, and stressed further by extreme weather
mircea_popescu: but to my own head it's a huge step forward. i guess i was coming at the internet from the wrong perspective. took a while to clear in my head heh.
mircea_popescu: well, i guess it's not novel nor really anything but the most banal observation.
ascii_field: kakobrekla: do the nauseating colours ~have~ to be default ?
ascii_field: any more than there is enough toyota to 'go around' in zimbabwe
mircea_popescu: the moment you have go around in the sentence you've made it about "giving stuff to people who haven't earned it"
mircea_popescu: of course there isn'rt roflmao. what "go around" !
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i'm not convinced that there is enough 'genuine cheat' or whatnot to go around. hence, the simulacra.
mircea_popescu: the web 2.0 has, basically, failed in all its promises except one. it does give monkleys something to play with.
mircea_popescu: they pretend like they're advertising, but aren't actually reaching anyone. they pretend like they're socializing, but they're socialising with perl scripts (as per http://trilema.com/2014/spamming-reddit-an-experiment/ ). they pretend like they're doing banking except they aren't actually, and "cheating" on their wife with gif-provided motion and indian call center provided voice.
mircea_popescu: these, without exception, are populated by idiots. without exception i say.
mircea_popescu: then there's a secopnd web, to use its own terminology web2.0. this is composed of ALL the sites that uses https, for any purpose. such as "logins" as if that makes any sense.
kakobrekla: a 'missing' 'overflow: hidden' was the cause
mircea_popescu: which is to say : there's two webs. one is the original web, which exclusively consists of non-interactive http served documents. this is the same it always was, more or less.
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 03:59:34; mircea_popescu: re the ashley madison thing, i believe it chiefly provides the same service faux exchanges etc provide to the click-bound generation. ie, they get to pretend like they're traders, don juans, what not, all from the safety of their own den, and - crucially - without actually doing it.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, re http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2015#1245067 : it occurs to me that this situation is not just pseudo-exchanges and fake dating sites etc. this is universally true of the web.
mircea_popescu: i guess it COULD be that it actually rejected the provided ids "because they start with digit" and ending up with a soup ?
trinque: cause it has to search the whole DOM tree
mircea_popescu: trinque the file i uploaded uses the same css the not working log used tho, and worked fine!@
felipelalli: mircea_popescu, thank you for the links! I was trying to find something relevant on log but I didn't so far.
mircea_popescu: but listen... all i took out was the js!
assbot: Third pass addressing the more common pseudo-arguments raised by the very stupid people that like the Gavin scamcoin proposal on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsD6gg )
assbot: Let's address even more of the more common pseudo-arguments raised by the very stupid people that like the Gavin scamcoin proposal on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsD6g6 )
assbot: Let's address some of the more common pseudo-arguments raised by the very stupid people that like the Gavin scamcoin proposal on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1fsD6g3 )
mircea_popescu: felipelalli or alternatively the cannonical texts on the topic. http://trilema.com/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal http://trilema.com/lets-address-even-more-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal http://trilema.com/third-pass-addressing-the-more-common-pseudo-a
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron lotta people are sorta like that, really. the hope and expectaton of a "greatness of the people" is hard to shake.
kakobrekla: its always in the head.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i just loaded a version without the head section
ascii_field realized long ago that standards committees attract at least half a dozen distinct types of vermin. one of which is the sort of fella who vandalizes bus stops, carves initials in
mircea_popescu: might not be... i noticed after they were introdfuced tho
kakobrekla: but its not the colors!
mircea_popescu: could there be a cache involved ?
mircea_popescu: i'm tryin' to pass along to you the methodology knowledge of people in this field, ya know ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu, kakobrekla: i also noticed this. even dug in the payload, found nothing
mircea_popescu: it's also applicabe to things like "internet websites", for the same reason. hence the b-something comment above.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i use the log daily and the problem only started maybe 2 days ago. somehow.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: funnily, the saltus thing is applicable to modern crapware written by morons who slavishly copy one another with minor variations
kakobrekla: yeah looking into it, checked and old backup copy of the file - still slow
mircea_popescu: this is a fine approach for computer viruses. for very good reasons i won't go into for the sake of not boring everyone.
mircea_popescu: i bet alf's idea of microbiology work is "examine the bugs individually under microscope"
mircea_popescu: felipelalli suppose you actually read the logs.
felipelalli: if Bitcoin Core pushes forward to increase the block size, how to resist to it if the miners decide to support the fork? Any other version unsupported by the miners would be very vulnerable to attacks from the fork side?
mircea_popescu: but they were, according to usg, unknown. only recently were they moved from field to embassy duty
mircea_popescu: in the current state this is actually fine. "debate core vs xt" misrepresentation is a degradation of "core consensus" prev state.
felipelalli: I'm reading http://shitco.in/2015/08/19/the-bitcoin-xt-trojan/ now. Who is this guy "goat"?
trinque: mein gott the lolz
trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/20/us-ashleymadison-cybersecurity-idUSKCN0QP20K20150820 << In a message, the hackers, who call themselves the Impact Team said: "Hey Noel, you can admit it's real now."
felipelalli: trinque, the link I tried to enter was this one: http://dpaste.com/10RVK2B.txt (above your commentary). But I should enter in deedbot link, not this one that is expired.
felipelalli: ascii_field, this is actually useful to identify scammers. Scammers does not like to register in WoT systems because they are easily got.
trinque: this is actually the thing that most excites me about bitcoin: permanent social memory
trinque: this is why I suggest deeds for this, rather than WoT ratings
ascii_field: felipelalli: why not simply rate'em if they ever show up.
felipelalli: trinque, ah, lol, amazing. thank you! The deedbot link didn't work when I tried to enter in it. My idea was to be able to rate an "abstract entity" that could represents a person or company that wasn't registered on WoT.
trinque: ascii_field: not at all; making a deed serves a similar purpose if the individuals are easily identified by the contents of the deed
ascii_field: felipelalli: 'I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.' (tm) (r) (babbage)
trinque: felipelalli: 'twas above that one, BingoBoingo made a deed in which he promised to rate certain individuals -10 should they ever appear in the WoT
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 06:35:37; trinque: ;;later tell felipelalli you've spoken about the idea of rating people not in the WoT; there's a great way ^
felipelalli: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-08-2015#1225351 << trinque I'm sorry, but I didn't understand. I tried to find in the history but I couldn't. What exactly is a great way to rate people outside the WoT? Thank you!
BingoBoingo: *no colon there
scoopbot_revived: Collected Notes on the XT Client and XTCoin fork http://qntra.net/2015/08/collected-notes-on-the-xt-client-and-xtcoin-fork/
trinque: point being, the internet... it rots.
trinque: http://www.statesman.com/ap/ap/california/coast-guard-cutter-arrives-in-us-with-14-tons-of-c/nkwt6/ << holy shit, here's another one the statesman took down
trinque: but I do remember when this was reported at the time, in 07
trinque: ascii_field: yeah, I'm having a hell of a time finding the sources that linked the above plane to flights to guantanamo now, and recall in the past *not* relying on such filth as "infowars"
trinque recalls the CIA plane *filled* with coke
chetty: odd, I dont get any color but I the spacing is actually better on that version
ascii_field: 'Update: The US Coast Guard informed me that the 16,000 pounds of cocaine seized during the July 18 semi-submersible bust has been changed to 14,000 pounds, due to a "quantity mistake" in their initial report. This story has been changed to reflect that correction' << 2,000 for obamitler's cellar
jurov: chetty, it's there ^
ascii_field: 'When the head of US Southern Command testified before Congress in March 2014, he said that due to asset shortfalls Southcom couldn’t pursue 74 percent of suspected maritime drug-smuggling vessels. “I simply sit and watch it go by,” the general said.' << disinfo !
chetty: log ever since the color change// color? what color?
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 13:13:32; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2015#1245265 << mine sputters, and barely runs, but loads. at first glance, whatever kakobrekla did to the log has doubled memory footprint
ascii_field: http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-hunt-for-narco-subs << unrelated but lulzy
ascii_field: 'the cuckening'
trinque: just keeps getting worse for them
ascii_field: so a 'dos port' is more appropriately a 'bare metal' port, and doesn't need the dos for anything
ascii_field: kakobrekla: iirc the modern drdos is 'freedos'
chetty: well I actually kinda liked the 'robin' variant
mike_c: No disagreement. I just smiled at the excitement :)
mod6: imho, it's good to support at least 1 other platform outside of linux.
mod6: <+mike_c> we = mod6 + mod6 << lol! in all seriousness, i think that ben supports us working on obsd as well; however, yes, his enthusiasm might be more tempered then my own. He does review all of these SoBA's before they get signed & sent out to ML
trinque: "Please switch to side B of the Universe now."
kakobrekla: even then
mike_c: unless you stick it in the blockchain
mike_c: hm, well, nevermind then. perhaps it was temporary.
mike_c: i consider it simply, the foundation says so.
mike_c: indeed there are, but methinks only one was actually excited about supporting openbsd
mike_c: ""phf [R.07] created two patches [R.08] for `stator' to build and run on OpenBSD. This is very exciting, we've been looking forward to supporting this platform for some time now." << is the the royal "we"? :)
mike_c: kakobrekla: these assbot bitly links don't seem to work anymore
ascii_field: mod6: i viewed the diffs in 'meld', came to same conclusion as you: 1) timestamps 2) ordering of files
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 03:25:34; *: BingoBoingo does not know their stimulus for keeping linux of life support, may have been Nvidia...
punkman: ascii_field: no I mean doing that other half
ascii_field: would be helpful in solving the puzzle.
ascii_field: another possibility is some odd misbehaviour re: timestamps
trinque: the people wanted change, ascii_field
ascii_field: mod6: just grep the diff for '+++' and compare the hashes with sha512sum of directory (your local manifest)
mod6: b/bitcoin/src/json/json_spirit.h, b/bitcoin/src/test/base58_tests.cpp, b/bitcoin/src/test/base64_tests.cpp, b/bitcoin/src/test/README out of order. but the hashes seem to match.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> **omitted** http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/v-genesis.txt << so much like MP says here; my diff http://dpaste.com/1ACSMBC.txt seems to just have the following out of order: b/bitcoin/COPYING, b/bitcoin/src/json/LICENSE.txt,...
ascii_field: (could easily be wholly fictional, but, in the immortal words of tlp: 'if you're reading it, it's for you')
assbot: Sovereign Citizens Are A Larger Threat To The US Than Jihadists ... ( http://bit.ly/1UVqvSJ )
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 16:29:31; mod6: <+mod6> hanbot: ... << ahh ok thanks for the update. glad you didn't get the error. my ubuntu needs to go to glue factory. << actually, I did also try this on a different 10.04 VM and i did get the same error. bizzare.
mod6: <+mod6> hanbot: ... << ahh ok thanks for the update. glad you didn't get the error. my ubuntu needs to go to glue factory. << actually, I did also try this on a different 10.04 VM and i did get the same error. bizzare.
mike_c: did I miss the FAQ link?
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2015 14:36:04; asciilifeform: and the next time you sit in the sun, eating ice cream, remember that it is the flies that give ice cream its value.
funkenstein_: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2015#1245466 <-- lol. Which customer is more important, the one who gave you a penny a year ago or a regular who provides 10% of revenue?
asciilifeform: they have consensus!
asciilifeform: and the next time you sit in the sun, eating ice cream, remember that it is the flies that give ice cream its value.
asciilifeform: because i'm pretty sure that they do.
asciilifeform: why not also say 'they want ferraris' ?
thestringpuller: "I think we should put users first. What do users want? They want low transaction fees and fast confirmations. Lets design for that case, because THE USERS are who ultimately give Bitcoin value." - Gavin << WHo is going to pay for these "low transactions"
asciilifeform: it's the new zombie control word
thestringpuller: Andreas: All the fork drama is really overblown. Diversity is good and bitcoin is resilient. Consensus will converge on the correct answer. << Consensus is you are a zombie who refuses to die.
mod6: hanbot: << picked the renaming bits out of here, worked for me, thanks. did not get the syntax error! << ahh ok thanks for the update. glad you didn't get the error. my ubuntu needs to go to glue factory.
asciilifeform: fella must've slept through slave school. where they teach ya that usg owns your sorry skin and its entire contents, and can do whatever the fuck it wants to you whenever the fuck it feels like; and that there isn't a thing you can do about it, except to help terrorists, whom you will never meet except in their fbi 'o'brien' incarnation
mike_c: Ok, guy sleeps with child prostitutes, gets busted, goes to jail. Good. "Oh, by the way, give us $50k or we'll take your cars".
asciilifeform: not like they can't take every cent, and every nut and bolt of the car, if they feel like it
mike_c: so, Jared drives to the prostitute, gets busted, and has to pay the feds not to seize the car he drove there in?
mike_c: "He also agreed to pay federal authorities another $50,000 so that they wouldn't seize vehicles he used as part of his illegal activities."
asciilifeform: also zdnet is a terrific pile of shit, which breaks not only back button on graphical browser, but the url bar
asciilifeform: turns out mircea_popescu was right. let's all fly on the first systemd-avionics plane!
asciilifeform: http://www.zdnet.com/article/ubuntu-linux-is-coming-to-the-mainframe << complete with systemd!