asciilifeform: (ask how they destroyed fine art? not by 'hiding it in vaults', no. by elevating steaming piles of shit like jackson pollack's splashes, on account of them being supposedly 'authenticable' in his bucket swirling patterns, to 'fine art')
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 12:56:08; punkman: https://news.artnet.com/market/how-do-experts-arrive-at-an-opinion-about-artwork-authenticity-323652
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248271 << compare this crock of shit to the algo for authenticating a bitcoin !
asciilifeform: propping up the 'world order' or however one calls it.
asciilifeform: no usg confiscates them, to keep the price from rocketing to alpha centauri. the 'art market' not only destroyed fine art as a going concern, but is one of the giant turtles on which the elephants stand
asciilifeform: there is no buterin's waterfall for rembrandts and vermeers
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248273 << in my eyes, a ~skilled~ art forger is a hero second only to a hypothetical fella who puts an actual bullet through a bilderberger. why, exactly, should i have any sympathy for the folks hitching a ride in the only 100% effective inflation shelter known, at the expense of literally everybody else ?
asciilifeform: (mircea_popescu's bag of tricks is ultra-handy for items like this. specifically, in re: the ancient art of not wasting time with spurious crud)
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 09:49:19; mircea_popescu: either they stole someone's shit, in which case i want the original ; or else they made it up, in which case i dun want to hear it.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1248244 << ahahaha this is ~very~ easy. does the thing contain any material signed with the original leak's pgp key? no? then straight to /dev/null !!
punkman: "before he resigned from the library he realized that his trick had occurred to someone else. Several of the paintings he made had been replaced, his copies stolen. So the Academy was exhibiting fakes of fakes and someone was selling, or trying to sell, art by Xiao."
punkman: https://news.artnet.com/market/how-do-experts-arrive-at-an-opinion-about-artwork-authenticity-323652
mircea_popescu: s just they don't amount to much traffic wise, even when piled together, which is how i've never noticed before.
mircea_popescu: anyway, turns out trilema's linked from tons of various reddits in all sorts of topics, from recovering tlp old posts he apparently deleted to whatever random other thing.
cazalla: next to theymos anyway
mircea_popescu: that's the subreddit mod neh ?
cazalla: anyone else read his name as thepikachu?
assbot: ThePiachu comments on Because most people are idiots, in spite of never manning up and admitting to it ... ( http://bit.ly/1TZkSpq )
mircea_popescu: but since we're doing lulz, check out what the dragnet drug up https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/17zq8j/because_most_people_are_idiots_in_spite_of_never/c8aabj7
mircea_popescu: either they stole someone's shit, in which case i want the original ; or else they made it up, in which case i dun want to hear it.
punkman: "Motherboard was given a contact email address for The Impact Team by an intermediary. After reaching out, the hackers replied with a message signed with the same PGP key posted with the Ashley Madison dumps. " << of course they couldn't provide the signed replies
mircea_popescu is not reading a vice regurgitation of anything. got the actual link ?
assbot: Ashley Madison Hackers Speak Out: 'Nobody Was Watching' | Motherboard ... ( http://bit.ly/1TZk43T )
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 23:21:00; mircea_popescu: The rest of us who actually make shit happen in the front lines of consensus back on planet earth will continue to be unaffected by your efforts apart from their modest value as chuckle fuel over beers and sushi."
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 23:21:00; mircea_popescu: "Welcome, kiddo, to how the real world works. You go ahead and place your crazy protest bids way off in the bottom of the sociological order book and scream that someday, SOMEDAY, the market will come down to meet you, and you will be vindicated.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: Prepare for the Playa Police [Update] | Burners.Me: Me, Burners and The Man ... ( http://bit.ly/1PrtJtw )
shinohai: I hope that somewhere in the AM data, it is revealed Josh Duggar snorted coke off of a tranny's cock.
mircea_popescu: "A totalitarian society which succeeded in perpetuating itself would probably set up a schizophrenic system of thought, in which the laws of common sense held good in everyday life and in certain exact sciences, but could be disregarded by the politician, the historian, and the sociologist."
assbot: [Guide] Surviving the fork, or How to double your bitcoins (or save fiat) ... ( http://bit.ly/1UZiOLr )
mircea_popescu: you know, they speak casually of how the bitches they know're gonna introduce the new ones. except... all this is a work of feverish imagination.
mircea_popescu: http://www.gutenberg.org/files/4281/4281-h/4281-h.htm turns out it's from the us, an early attempt at mommy blogging.
mircea_popescu: "The reappearance of HELEN'S BABIES, in its day one of the most popular books in the worldwithin the British Empire alone it was pirated by twenty different publishing firms, the author receiving a total profit of £40 from a sale of some hundreds of thousands or millions of copieswill ring a bell in any literate person over thirty-five."
asciilifeform: see also the 'rating folks not in wot?' and 'branding a snake' thread
asciilifeform will soon learn what, if anything, ru academiderpers did re: crypto in '90s, among other things.
asciilifeform: orcs only need to be distinguishable from one another quickly & reliably.
mircea_popescu: because it's where it's headed anyway, and why the fuck wait.
phf: for the curious ftp://ftp.pgpi.org/pub/pgp/2.x/doc/pgformat.txt, http://www.spinnaker.com/crypt/pgp/pgp26ui/pgp26uis.zip (src/crypto.c:1289)
phf: g the wrong RSA key." message format spec explains "First 2 bytes of the Message Digest inside the RSA-encrypted integer, to help us figure out if we used the right RSA key to check the signature."
phf: so to continue this archaeological dig, GPG 2.6 clarifies the usage of 2 octets. reads the header, reads the rsa ciphertext, decrypts rsa. rsa contains a digest of some fields from header and the body of message. so first thing he does next is check the first 2-octets of digest againts the 2-octets in header. if the two don't match program bails with "Error: RSA-decrypted block is corrupted. This may be caused either by corrupted data or by usin
asciilifeform: (modern gpg does not sign only the 16)
mod6: asciilifeform: ... if you regenerate the 'orchestra' patches with new vdiff, i will sign'em. otherwise might have to wait a while << hey, no problem. I'll start in on this sometime tomorrow probably.
phf: yes, trying to see what he was doing with signatures there
phf: (so it's not compare. they run a digest on payload while reading (or separately if detached), then they run digest on own reconstruction of header, then they finalize the digest and do sig verification of provided signature against the digest that they calculated)
asciilifeform: at this point anybody can turn the handle
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 if you regenerate the 'orchestra' patches with new vdiff, i will sign'em. otherwise might have to wait a while
asciilifeform has been living with all of this, in today's thread, and more, while working on the inevitable ada bignumtron and rsatron.
asciilifeform: btw i am still trying to figure out why the existing 'padding' algos are so asininely complex
mircea_popescu: and if youy for some incomprehensible reason MUST use a hybrid scheme, use the following : 1. generate random 4096 hash ; 2. cut your message up into N chunks of size up to 2048 ; 3. xor the chunks with 1; encrypt each chunk via rsa
mircea_popescu: yes. but none of these actually requires a hybrid scheme
asciilifeform: the purpose of 'padding' is to a) never have transform of known input deterministically give same output b) prevent arbitrarily flipped bits of ciphertext from yielding a valid (attempt to eat) message
mircea_popescu: (and i maintain that in all context hybrid encryption is retarde dwithout exception. either fuck or get off the woman.)
mircea_popescu: i wasn't at any point contemplating "rsa encryption = rsa run once over the message herp"
asciilifeform: 'pad' is a bit of a misnomer in the parlance
mircea_popescu: hash is also the pad
asciilifeform: (that is, permutation of the item to be signed)
mircea_popescu: make the damned thing match throughout. bapg = 4096 rsa, 4096 hash, etc.
mircea_popescu: actually. is there a 4096 bit hash function of any merit ?
asciilifeform: (but, how many folks would accept signatures that are 2x the length of the payload !)
asciilifeform: he says 'long messages' on account of the impossibility of signing an integer longer than the public modulus
mircea_popescu: no in the quote.,
asciilifeform: in the rfc?
asciilifeform: for the record.
asciilifeform: 'well, one could devise methods for signing long messages that don't involve hashing, such as splitting up the message into small segments, tie each segment together with an identifier and a segment sequence number, and sign each individually. However, hashing works so much easier that no one ever considers an alternative.' << quoted verbatim from shit-overflow
phf: logic looks like "read a bunch of things", "hash data", "put relevant bits into an in memory copy of the header", "hash in memory copy", "compare"
phf: i'm mostly curious if my guess about the purpose of the field was correct, but no insight from gpg
phf: asciilifeform: i'm failing to see the clusterfuck part
asciilifeform: phf: am i catastrophically missing something, (i didn't sleep much), or is this an even greater clusterfuck than if the 16bit were used ?!!
mircea_popescu: phf yeah it's not actually as bad as it seemed on the basis of the snippet. still crud.
phf: *anywhere rather
phf: so for the curious it doesn't look like 1.4.19 uses the two-byte hash value anyway. it reads it from disk, it populates it during sign and it can write it to disk, but no actual logic done using it
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2015 01:11:30; mircea_popescu: never, inb the entire history of reichs, was this the case. not once.
asciilifeform: what would a counterexample to hypothesis http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2015#1247994 look like ?
mircea_popescu: only some may have. government's not on the list.
asciilifeform: so no 'have' until firing on the battlefield ?
mircea_popescu: it "had" it. suppose there's madonna burried in your back yard
mircea_popescu: i dunno dood. but once i figure it out i'll make the computer do what you mean.
asciilifeform: either the legend of mr cocks is disinfo (i cannot rule this out at all) or usg had rsa before rivest, shamir, adelman.
mircea_popescu: no. that wasn't their problem.
mircea_popescu: that dumbfuck rice "had" the airplane thing, too.
mircea_popescu: your notion that hitler's ahead of the curve is spurious.
asciilifeform: how does it help anybody (other than hitler), including mircea_popescu, when hitler knows for certain, but everybody else is left to mathematicize fruitlessly (or, worse, work on faith)
mircea_popescu: heh. no they don't.
asciilifeform: see, i could even agree re: ~provably unknowable~ (i.e. godelian) unknowns. if these could be had. but 'unknown uknowns' inescapably shed the first 'unknown'
asciilifeform: is the idea that enemy wastes resources on cryptoanalytic derp vs setting up coke machine dungeon ?
asciilifeform: how does this beat 'proven np-complete and the lowliest amoebic scum knows' ?
mircea_popescu: hitler had reports re the fucking wtc bombings on his own desk.
mircea_popescu: then nothing.
mircea_popescu: it is ACTUALLY preferable for teh republic that whether rsa is or is not np-complete is not known.
mircea_popescu: the holy grail is this situation where nothing's demonstrated at all.
asciilifeform: (most academitards neglect the second part!)
asciilifeform: while also proving that none of the 'practical' aspects of employing the transform, leak key.
asciilifeform: to round off the thread, imho the 'holy grail' of asymmetric crypto is to demonstrate ~provably measurable strength~ - that is, prove np-completeness of inverting the transform.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile on another front, http://36.media.tumblr.com/cf0be6b45983b05c2ff5e4529958595f/tumblr_ncsy3gJdZY1u0tf07o1_500.jpg
asciilifeform: but it is worth understanding what the cost of 'infinitely rigid girder' is.
asciilifeform: this is the 'infinitely rigid girder.' in practice, all girders meaningfully differing from this one have provably finite rigidity.
mircea_popescu: look, im not going to give back the major advantage of asym crypto keys just because nsa sponsored implementation and useful rms-ian idiots made a mess of things.
asciilifeform: then separated.
asciilifeform: not a weakness. generated by two units connected together in sealed, grounded copper container.
phf: (that's the last point in asciilifeform's list)
asciilifeform: that it is not aesthetically pleasing is not a weakness.
asciilifeform: otp has precisely three weaknesses even in principle: generation of key (solved by civilized rng); reuse of key (solved by erasing each bit immediately after it is used in a xor); capture of key by enemy (in common with any other cipher! and solved with grenade pin)
asciilifeform: plugged into the 'grenade pin' of course.
asciilifeform: unless operator is a moron, and uses it other than as prescribed, device is a true otp.
mircea_popescu: it's computing for a reason. THIS is the reason.
asciilifeform: phf, mircea_popescu: how, if the layers use distinct keys, each en-rsa'd separately ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform either you make me an infinitely rigid girder or i don;'t want anything to do with you.
mircea_popescu: and other issues.
mircea_popescu: no dude, spare me. either this problem is solved or woirked on.
mircea_popescu: fuck or get off the woman.
asciilifeform: (knowing weak keys in aes does not break the message if under it is, e.g., twofish, with DISTINCT KEY)
mircea_popescu: if one didn't help, ten won't eiother.
mircea_popescu: it helps in precisely the same way as multiple surgical interventions.
asciilifeform: it helps in precisely the same way as multiple parachutes
asciilifeform: 'why the fuck is there no provision for multilayer use of multiple blockciphersystems'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: weren't you the one with the 'why do we need block cipher at all' concept ?
punkman: "# Use a real encryption algorithm to protect the secret keyring, rather than CAST5." << relevant to certain folks that didn't mind posting their encrypted keyrings to keybase.io
asciilifeform: this is likely why so few with the shovels
mircea_popescu: to subvert thew pgp i npractice.
punkman: plenty of success with that "Scallion was used to find collisions for every 32bit key id in the Web of Trust's strong set demonstrating how insecure 32bit key ids are."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is thgat the most likely to be quoted snippet ?
asciilifeform: 'The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures.'
asciilifeform: (with some success, as i gather)
asciilifeform: fingerprint collision diddles, entirely other castle wall scaled by orcs
mircea_popescu: and why is it that all the phuctor bad sigs we see are two octet mirrors.
phf: if the first two octets don't match you don't have to go through the rest of the signature verification process, since at that point you already know that the signature is invalid
mircea_popescu: the intent is to rape and pillage, for all orcs, by virtue of being orcs.
mircea_popescu: i do not wish to eat in the restaurant where they piss in the beer, irrespective of any other consideration.
phf: mircea_popescu: i ~assume~ the intent is to speed up failure
phf: asciilifeform: maybe hash size is variable where's they wanted to go with fixed size headers. so no matter size of hash you only store first two octets
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's no question left that a usable extant pgp implementaton exists. this should be redone.
asciilifeform: but can now formulate the equation.
mircea_popescu: hence the comments i an i presume him, made.
mircea_popescu: me too, but nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: but still, the situation is not equivalent to "singatures are trivially defeated in the field"
asciilifeform: me neither.
asciilifeform: punkman, mircea_popescu: can you think of any ~legit~ reason to store only 16 bits of the hash that was signed ?
mats: If subroutines were used, they were implemented by writing the return address to their end then jumping.
mats: Fun fact: the first Minuteman missiles ran off a hard disk as the only available memory. Reads/writes/jumps had to be scheduled to avoid pipeline stalling for a full rotation.
mircea_popescu expects to live in a world where everything is done EXACTLY as he would do it. failure of perceptible world to conform to this expectation is a crime, more serious than any other, and to be punished by destruction.
mircea_popescu: The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures.
punkman: "The concatenation of the data being signed and the signature data from the version number through the hashed subpacket data (inclusive) is hashed. The resulting hash value is what is signed. The left 16 bits of the hash are included in the Signature packet to provide a quick test to reject some invalid signatures."
mircea_popescu off to read rfc4480 for the expecterd comedic value
mircea_popescu: i guess the next top priority in making cardano which was making bitcoin which was making vdiff is now making gpg.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the LEFT 16 bits ?
mircea_popescu: because why, because youyr mother had two abortions ?
asciilifeform: motherfuckers.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck specs like this for crying out loud
asciilifeform: or do i have to draw the picture here.
asciilifeform: rfc4480 sayeth, '5.2.3. Version 4 Signature Packet Format.... [buncha crud snipped] ... Two-octet field holding the left 16 bits of the signed hash value. One or more multiprecision integers comprising the signature. ...'
mircea_popescu: 1. full rsa. 2. proper signature encapsulation. 3. sane structuring of the keys. 4. etfc.
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 23:09:56; mircea_popescu: fucking abcnews. the defense didn't "decline to do so". the defense DECLINED TO RECOGNISE THE COURT!
mircea_popescu: deep restructuring of the pgp implementation is required anyway.
asciilifeform: incidentally there is an implication of this, which ought to be obvious
asciilifeform: (it lacks the complete hash!)
asciilifeform: where a pgp signature is so retardedly structured that it cannot be verified at all without the original matter
mircea_popescu: if the signed thing is not a thing, or if the signed thing is not available fgor my eyes, no problem has in fact been solved.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the concept of me being able to read the singed thing with my eyes is not broken.
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000152.html << congrats mod6 on signing the ~correct~ genesis
punkman: also, if have some automated system that works with gpg messages and you aren't running one of the latest 1.* version, messages can be crafted that will DoS/hang your system
assbot: All of the Nopes: "There is no such thing as the crime of 'rape'" and that's arguably not the worst part : againstmensrights ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmXd7o )
mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/3c1pry/all_of_the_nopes_there_is_no_such_thing_as_the/ dude i;m all over fucking reddit already.
punkman: clearsigning mostly works. the problem is everything else the clearsigned message will pass through.
jurov: and least derpy of them
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 22:06:28; ascii_field: punkman: didja miss all the 'clearsigning is retardedly broken' threads ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247577 << because of the gay danger ?
mircea_popescu: mats obama's only actual initiative. fucked in the ass.
mircea_popescu: The rest of us who actually make shit happen in the front lines of consensus back on planet earth will continue to be unaffected by your efforts apart from their modest value as chuckle fuel over beers and sushi."
mircea_popescu: "Welcome, kiddo, to how the real world works. You go ahead and place your crazy protest bids way off in the bottom of the sociological order book and scream that someday, SOMEDAY, the market will come down to meet you, and you will be vindicated.
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 20:57:09; cazalla: "We are going to have taxation officials travel around the world visiting these companies asking them to register for GST purposes," federal Treasurer Joe Hockey said.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247431 << derp can save the gas money. S.MG is never collecting any tax for anyone, including teh republic.
mircea_popescu: fucking abcnews. the defense didn't "decline to do so". the defense DECLINED TO RECOGNISE THE COURT!
mircea_popescu: oh never mind, my bad. they held silence in protest over jurisdiction.
mircea_popescu: did the schmucks get disbarred ?
mircea_popescu: since when the fuck do defense lawyers have agency in court.
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is this bullshit.
mircea_popescu: "A Wisconsin court today entered not guilty pleas on behalf of the two teen defendants in the "Slender Man" stabbing case after their lawyers declined to do so."
mircea_popescu: from ~thin air~ do the following:
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 19:01:28; trinque: and I think I'll continue to just make all the decisions rather than offer options, and then describe how one might proceed from there on their own, if they so desire
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000152.html << here we go!
mircea_popescu: water under the bridge by now
assbot: Logged on 21-08-2015 18:46:15; phf: i use to like vice do's&don't's, they were mean and funny. i always thought vice was magazine version of the whole terry richardson, merlin bronques "glam trash" photography, but that was still cool in 2004-2006. i guess it would make sense that they would be faux edgy tech articles, no better or worse then any other online rag, but i can't get over the image of hipsters on heroin writing that shit
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-08-2015#1247400 < yeah well, the us altogether was to some degree still cool in early 2000s.
ascii_field: unless we discover yet another 'locale'-like idiocy, in which case it will go on my chopping block
ascii_field: mod6: from here on, everyone who carries out a vdiff on the same inputs shall get the same output.
mod6: Alright, lemme fireup the ole gpg-o-matic.
ascii_field: now post the output, sign
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> yeah, mod you have teh honor. << thanks. I've confirmed that what I get from genesis.vpatch out of thin air is the same manifest as `bitcoin-0.5.3-no-crud.sha256.manifest`.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ascii_field: ;;later tell jurov can we PLEASE dispense with the mutilated filenames ?!
mircea_popescu: the files i sent over definitely only had it once.
ascii_field: on this topic as on any other, is absolutely indubitable. The proposition that the sum total of what came before can be compared with this particular advance is strictly ridiculous.' << mega-summary, quoted here for logz readers
ascii_field: change the V-genesis introduced is exactly like the move from understanding and controlling movement in terms of mass and somewhat velocity, such as it occurs in the mind of a monkey throwing rocks, to understanding and controlling movement in terms of mass, impulse and energy, such as it occurs in the launching of satellites. The proposition that there is still room for improvement in the endless march of human thought,
ascii_field: 'For the first time in the century or so of history of this particular human endeavour, text was deliberately structured with due consideration given not only to its meaning, but also to its source, and to its context. Prior attempts at structuring software, at first consisting of a naive approach focused on meaning only, over time added a half-hearted consideration of context, very unequally and rather haphazardly. The
ascii_field: the one with timestamps
mircea_popescu: it's really painless, once one's clear on the process.
ascii_field: (these really oughta be scoopbotted)
phf: amusingly i tried looking for plan9's diff for some insight. they use a ported gnu version.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000151.html << worx
trinque: so every single piece of open source is compromized to the degree it was ever used at all
trinque: and nothing focuses them coherently
jurov: i can imagine someone fearing their job if diff isn't locale-aware
ascii_field: who the FUCK thought that this was sane.
ascii_field: only the lowest order 16 bits of it.
ascii_field: pgp sig doesn't carry the whole hash.
ascii_field: (beyond the sig)
trinque: with maybe the hash used and byte length preceding, actually
trinque: just put the sig immediately following
punkman: you --sign --armor the detached sig :P
jurov: punkman and how does that help with verifying the sig as soon as posible?
trinque: ascii_field: yeah, why not? you send me a GET, I first tell ya how many bytes to expect, then signature, then body?
ascii_field: punkman: didja miss all the 'clearsigning is retardedly broken' threads ?
trinque: sig comes over as part of header, then body
ascii_field: punkman: whereas 'sign the sig' again means that you can't take a single file at a time.
ascii_field: 'take any sig and then see' creates a ddos vector
punkman: ascii_field: well you can sign the detached sig if you please