assbot: Logged on 30-07-2014 03:06:22; mircea_popescu: specifically : an atm requires a fortress. we have not yet built the fortress. when we do, you will know we have, because i will kidnap a number of "world leaders" wives and daughters to be publicly raped there as to make the fucking point that in fact it IS a fortress.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2014 14:09:33; mircea_popescu: all the other atms in the world are inside an invisible fortress.
asciilifeform: but they work so long as they fit within 'hobbyist' budget, and the results pass some minimal bar
asciilifeform: in the sense that the folks paying for it are not getting anything like their money's worth. and yes, this is true for many activities, from fixing old cars to raising children;
asciilifeform: call it an energy leak, in the sense of 'memory leak.'
asciilifeform: (in the sense of supporting a healthy network)
asciilifeform: and it is not clear to me that there is enough of this to go around
asciilifeform: it is quite conceivable that a node can only be run for the abstract imperial glory of something else, something very lucrative
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 22:45:57; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes well i have nobody with an axe to ship there rightnao
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1256166 << even if you did, the point i was trying to make is that we have right now this risky situation where running a proper honest node actually costs serious dough, and it is not clear that this cost can ever be recoverable
trinque: The situation wasn't helped any when the program's senior officer, Lt. Col. Odin Lieberman, was relieved of command after an internal investigation discovered that he had instructed his team to falsify records to make the Osprey look safer than they actually were. << heh, he expected that this wouldn't become apparent?
asciilifeform: 'But while they're definitely (relatively) safer than the early versions, the Osprey is still not safe enough to entrust with the leader of the free world's life. As such, the presidential Osprey has not yet been designated a "white top," meaning President Obama is not allowed on board, but is currently undergoing further reliability testing. There's no word on when that will be completed, so for now, it will serve as a $67 mi
asciilifeform: 'The aircraft is manned by a crew of fourpilot, copilot and two flight engineersand can carry as many as 32 troops or 20,000 pounds of cargo. Or, in the case of the President's jaunt to Martha's Vineyard last Saturday, a contingent of White House staffers, journalists, and Bo, the president's pooch. But not the president himself. No way, he's not allowed anywhere near this thing.'
asciilifeform: http://gizmodo.com/the-president-gets-a-personal-osprey-hes-not-allowed-t-1108783801 << relevant, lulzy
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2015#1256316 << i saw a working 'osprey' for the first time a few weeks ago. my first thought was 'wish i weren't stuck in traffic under that thing'
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only nato maker of heavy helicopters that actuallyfly
pete_dushenski: https://chivethethrottle.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/nuts-500-truck-nutz-hooterswtmk.jpg
mircea_popescu: http://36.media.tumblr.com/njE9Bw4rv2eg33gaji6PkUvx_400.jpg << back when the libertards cared. because bush!
pete_dushenski: spiced 'captain wedgepants' and diet coke is a popular drink in these parts. with men !
gabriel_laddel: "god fucking forbid i ask for the best rum in the world (centenario anejo especial) because they don't import it from nearby costa rica" << lol
mircea_popescu: and now in our "the greatness of the atomic family" series, http://41.media.tumblr.com/qoXAtsJnN2fu8lmtQYQqvbcw_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: they gotta import fucking what's that shit called, captain wedgepants
mircea_popescu: they got badly faked mumm, they don't got the local stuff. and god fucking forbid i ask for the best rum in the world (centenario anejo especial) because they don't import it from nearby costa rica
mircea_popescu: they carry all the fucktarded imported us shit i wouldn't pour in my drain. beefeather ? srsly ? to what, kill lice with ?
mircea_popescu: argentina is weird #89546 : the best cognac thing they have here (reserva san juan) retails (IN THE STORE!) for like 80 pesos a bottle.
trinque: http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/10/the-nasty-bits-geoduck-how-to-cook-recipe.html << sounds so
trinque now considers that the dick-clam is probably delicious.
hanbot: mp actually eats the stuff. brrr.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 22:45:08; mircea_popescu: the nsa approach to software issues is not "how can we fix this" but "how can we pretend this is fixed while really we can just keep it in sleeve for later because you never know". fnargl through and through.
gabriel_laddel: and here I was under the impression stas didn't like penis.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell bingoboingo no real opinion of lifted minitrucks. lifting isn't really my thing, per se. but i can see the appeal.
pete_dushenski: we have a short little 'brit milah' tmrw at the synagogue for meatwot (but no briss planned)
mircea_popescu: kinda degenerated into the french bacalaureat, which meanwhile became a "right" dontchaknow
mircea_popescu: i guess there's the texas dip for girls "of society" which means ~jack anymore, and i suppose they still do bar mitzvah in some households but srsly...
mircea_popescu: it's really unfortunate they don't do presentation anymore.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 23:38:33; mircea_popescu: achievements start with the first one.
pete_dushenski: i've been mostly keeping up on the logs
pete_dushenski: thanks to all for the well wishes :)
gabriel_laddel: trinque: it's in the logs, but work mostly.
trinque: gabriel_laddel: in porn, do not fear the penis
trinque: rather artistic, that one. I like it
mircea_popescu: and in other news, boxes! http://40.media.tumblr.com/qoXAtsJnN2hul9b89WgiGz3Z_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: there are no prior achievements to that
mircea_popescu: achievements start with the first one.
moonpunter: eh. i think your life is defined by your achievements. nothing against those with a lot, nothing against those with nothing. nothing against helping others by choice. etc. i just don't feel strongly about any of it. spend too much time selfishly focusing on my own life, i thinks.
mircea_popescu: in a generous reading, students and other tramps are somehow in a liberal profession.
mircea_popescu: profession or otherwise indepedently rich = commoner
gabriel_laddel: read the logs?
moonpunter: never understood the "commoner" paradigm. what is this a magic deck? if so, i'm a ltd. ed. rare holofoil, bitches.
mircea_popescu: such a thing is not for sale past what you get publicly anyway, the bar has a list.
mircea_popescu: and a deeply ignorant population which imagines its vague notions of ethics and fairness are worth two shits, mostly through being so useless and inept that they never get to check said in any sort of practice.
gabriel_laddel: Do you have a database of all the judges, the lawyers who frequent their courts etc?
mircea_popescu: overdrawn but unenforceable "rights" of the common man, endless trials, complete disjunction between law and commerce, the works.
mircea_popescu: pretty much a copy of the 1996 ru justice system.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: more specifically, I'd love to hear more about the justice system some time
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Cray | cray. Another word for crazy. An abbreviation that you can use to describe a crazy person. That one cray bitch. She be cray. Why are you acting so cray?
mircea_popescu: not like you HAVE TO fuck EVERYONE in the pic
gabriel_laddel: troglodyte male in the background ruins photo :/
deedbot-: [Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] The economics of sinking Garzikcoin aka BIP 100. - http://www.contravex.com/2015/08/29/the-economics-of-sinking-garzikcoin-aka-bip-100/
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel o hey there. how's life in
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes well i have nobody with an axe to ship there rightnao
mircea_popescu: the nsa approach to software issues is not "how can we fix this" but "how can we pretend this is fixed while really we can just keep it in sleeve for later because you never know". fnargl through and through.
asciilifeform: but the legs are coming off this horse.
asciilifeform: jurov: this ~was~ the inaugural 'bisp' machine, recall.
asciilifeform: if this were a project with an actual budget, and the machine were colocated, i would include a lithium-cell-powered MAINS LOGGER in there. and then WELD IT SHUT with own hands
asciilifeform: it is only by a stroke of luck that therealbitcoin did not perma-wedge from corrupt db, also.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: even if you were speaking of the kind of kvm which has a power relay, it remains to be asked WHAT KIND OF TARD would flip the relay on a customer's box without written permission
asciilifeform: i am reminded of the old thread re: mpex disk drives.
asciilifeform: monkeys will try to pull out the cable, and the only solution is a man with an axe standing there and chopping their hands off, every time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i strongly suspect that if it were somehow the case that trilema goes down for weeks-to-a-month every time it loses power, it would also lose power with some regularity...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: perhaps you understand now why the alarm. there is NO LEGIT REASON for that thing to ever cycle.
mod6: lemme check the horde
asciilifeform: this means one of two things: a) thermal breaker b) mains current lost
asciilifeform: 'crash' means that there was no proper shutdown.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not kvm either!!!
asciilifeform: essentially the node ddos issue was never really solved
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1256108 << empirically, it does very poorly. though, interestingly, i am reading the log now and may have discovered another force at work
asciilifeform: there is no way to do this cleanly without root pw.
asciilifeform: whether because devils pulled cable out of my box individually, or whole rack, or entire warehouse - i cannot know
asciilifeform: all i know is that the fucking box lost mains power.
mircea_popescu: i dunno what the proper item to measure is.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: strictly cpu cycles? the answer depends on whether anyone is querying the db
asciilifeform: understand, the running-product is an integer, presently ~1GByte in size.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:49:45; asciilifeform: not only does it not, but it absolutely impossible to do anything re: the running product having to be recalculated on warmup without 1) increasing complexity 25x 2) slowing down processing palpably
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:48:54; mircea_popescu: dulap may be the latest piece of software in actual use that doesn't actually benefit from periodic rebooting
asciilifeform: and the budget is approx. $0.
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 02:47:55; mircea_popescu: i think the latter kids don't really grok this "don't reboot machine " thing
asciilifeform: experimentally demonstrated that neither runs ADEQUATELY (much less with any degree of trust!) without this condition being met.
asciilifeform: punkman: since you asked, it also doesn't hurt to point out that both phuctor and the node MUST HAVE reasonably-cpu-and-ram-rich PHYSICAL machine.
asciilifeform: i, on the other hand, donated my spare time, of which i don't actually have very much.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu had not donated the cpu cycles, the thing would still be sitting on aws and being essentially useless
asciilifeform: there is no way in heaven or hell that either of those things could ever pay for itself.
asciilifeform: this is YET AGAIN the 'can't charge for sunlight' thing !!
asciilifeform: for no especially good reason other than that i felt like it, and mircea_popescu saw it fit to supply a machine (via subcontractor) out of his own (for now) pocket
asciilifeform: phuctor and the node are run as a public service.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu dulap is a quad-core machine. current 'werker' (phuctor) uses strictly a single core, at the maximum. but what is happening appears to be bus cycle starvation (shared cores share a cache; and at any rate all processes share a single ram bus)
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:48:13; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu potentially interesting observation: dulap has been ~50 blocks behind semi-permanently since reboot. in as far as i can tell, it is not mainly from 'blackholing' but due to cpu starvation! on account of phuctor re-grinding the product...!
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 21:09:21; mod6: this should do the trick: `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 &`
punkman: anyone try the final debug_sanity_part1 patch?
mod6: this should do the trick: `LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 &`
mod6: yup, that's required on every system that i've encountered when built with the `rotor'.
trinque: with the LC_ALL=C
mod6: i'll put that in there. "Linux Mint, 13-14ish." :P
gribble: The operation succeeded.
trinque: I could run over all previous records at some long-ish interval and see whether that occurred, update db accordingly.
trinque: punkman: I have not handled that case. As I understand it, transactions would then go back into the mempool for inclusion in a subsequent block.
mod6: chettty & mircea_popescu: btw, eulora seems to be functioning well since changes. although, i don't use any automation in there. just good ole hard rock minin' by hand. with a mule^H^H^H^Himproved pickaxe.
jurov: no i was too busy and then on afk vacation
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: You rated user gernika on 04-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..
asciilifeform: since we're on the subject, i do not regard it as a proven fact that schwartz tied the rope by himself
phf: no atheists in foxholes and all that
asciilifeform: it is just something people ~do~, like the boyars impaled by ivan iv famously screaming 'god save the tsar' as their arses stretched
asciilifeform: it is why the fact that (in american courts) the plea never really ~works~ does not affect its popularity
asciilifeform: rather than any kind of rational undertaking
asciilifeform: i see the ulbricht plea, and schrodinger's, etc. as similar
asciilifeform: there is a long history of tales re: folks having conversations with (personified) Death, and asking her 'not now, why me, ...' etc
phf: well, in the case ulbricht his plea was dumb, the point which you guys consistently drive in other cases
asciilifeform: phf: iirc this began as a thread about r. ulbricht's shameful plea for mercy to the judge
assbot: Logged on 26-05-2015 17:45:33; ascii_field: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://wiki.mises.org/wiki/Miscellany:Confession_to_the_F%C3%BChrer << schrödinger's shameful letter. english.
asciilifeform: erwin schrodinger, famously, did his physics almost as just a thing to fill the time between random fucks. but he was not enough 'non serviam' nietzschean superman to avoid sucking hitler's cock (unsuccessfully !!) and having to run for his life
asciilifeform: considering how the latter is almost inescapably a less-rewarding affair than the former
asciilifeform: i suspect that folks who are child prodigies at programming people (esp. programming the female of the species) do not usually end up having the patience to seriously deal with machines
asciilifeform: or, more appropriately to the case at hand, 'program pc or don't program'
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: the correct setting for the gedankenexperiment is 'serve usg or take the cyanide'
asciilifeform: but instead other things.
asciilifeform: for instance, iirc mircea_popescu was also pretty handy at mathematics as a young man. but notice that we do not come here to learn mathematics from him.
asciilifeform: and it also turns out that for some reason the folks who are very excellent at non serviam - don't program. (napoleon's work in geometry notwithstanding...)
asciilifeform: at least, at individual steps of the way.
mod6: anyway, not that it need be the same. just curious.
phf: sure, korolev was tested by that limit, and i'm not in his position, so i can't say "сука буду i've offed myself", but when the choice is between doing csv and sexp for a customer..
mod6: lol, the css 'solid green', appears slightly different tone than 0x00FF00 on thebitcoin.foundation, or is it just my eldery eyes?
asciilifeform: phf: mircea_popescu seems to suggest that if korolev, etc. were real men, they would have killed themselves instead of serving the hated master.
phf: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: take me to this planet of 'healthy relationships.' << i am equally confused by this position. non serviam doesn't necessarily need to translate to its extreme expression. if you're that figured out how to push the lever, i think the last option that you can possibly have is to keep pushing the lever for others. once you accept it to its logical conclusion, are you not free to do as you please?
ben_vulpes: call it 3K then.
asciilifeform: and they won't even be able to eat my corpse, wrong-chirality proteins
trinque: mod6: shall pop out at the next hour
mod6: trinque: just have to wait until next block before it shows up in the deedbot.org list?
ben_vulpes: in a healthy relationship, the consultant keeps the customer from making bad decisions in areas in which the customer has no business making decisions.
asciilifeform: mod6: it will be part of the formal release of 'v'. but for now, can use this.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6 et al: http://dpaste.com/1PHPHRE.txt << ok thanks, I can just point at the deedbot submission then.
assbot: Logged on 19-08-2015 00:18:24; asciilifeform: cabbie: 'this ford is a piece of shit. stalled again.' mircea_popescu: 'i have a solution!' cabbie: 'oh???111' mircea_popescu: 'here, have this broomstick.' cabbie: 'how do i drive customers on that, feed my family' mircea_popescu: 'you misunderstand, my good man. you stuff it in your arse.' cabbie: 'and... how does this feed by family?' mircea_popescu: 'no, you sit there with it in.'
asciilifeform: not unless the customer agrees.
trinque: but the consultant does.
asciilifeform: see also the 'gimp and photoshop' thread from a few wks ago.
asciilifeform: 'i want the boldface, italics, and cat pictures retained !!!1111'
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 20:00:15; trinque: because the CSV one requires him no work but to change the save-as type, or w/e
ben_vulpes: sometimes one goes to a cafe to meet a customer instead of demanding they come to ones office.
mod6: I'm currently working on the SoBA to close out the month, would like to point at the vdiff.sh that creats w/o timestamps in the document. Only reason that I bring it up. Thanks for taking a look. Wasn't sure if I missed it somehow.
punkman: asciilifeform: customer can learn to export csv or fuck off most of the time
phf: i think gnu awk closes implicitly but a bsd one keeps the fd's open and eventually runs into open file limits
punkman: asciilifeform: trinque: go and sell 'it' if it doesn't read&write microshit excel format. i'll watch. << I've written lots of these, it's called .csv
phf: by the way that script above needs a close i.e. ... if (s) { close(s); ...
ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255824 << no per-user work, just a single pubkey to which anyone could find the corresponding privkey
mod6: bah, well disregard the above -- as this came from my orc.sh script with escaped shell vars, but you get the point i think.
mod6: so i see, obv., the one that was submitted with The Full Orchestra, but i don't see your updated one that looks like:
asciilifeform: on account of the resemblance to human programmers, engineers, and other 'slave artisans' who build civilization but are rarely seen in mercedes
asciilifeform: phf: the paper became a 'viral meme' and nicknamed 'codemonkey paper'
asciilifeform: phf: the animals were placed in a room where there was a set of levers, which, if pulled correctly, would dispense food. result was that, at any given time, a handful learned to pull the lever, but would not get to eat the treats. instead, would be beaten for non-performance by the others if they stopped.
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, qq: are you going to post the modified vdiff.sh (creation of vpatch w/o timestamps) to the ml, or will it be included with your next submission of the full working solution?
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 19:40:56; phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-08-2015#1255852 << i will let mircea_popescu explain himself, by himself, but iirc this thread began long ago with the mention of an infamous paper, http://www.loper-os.org/pub/codemonkey.pdf (mirror)
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu potentially interesting observation: dulap has been ~50 blocks behind semi-permanently since reboot. in as far as i can tell, it is not mainly from 'blackholing' but due to cpu starvation! on account of phuctor re-grinding the product...!
asciilifeform: same reason you won't get to be 'the next exxon'
asciilifeform: usually you find that there is a reason why nobody gets to be 'next microshit' every year.
trinque: right, you're a scientist. meanwhile I'd love to have the market on traffic cones cornered.
asciilifeform: and using their dev environment and joke of an os.
asciilifeform: trinque: aha, it can ?! now you're married to microshit. because there is no way of reliably speaking the format in any and all cases except by linking their libs
asciilifeform: phf: mircea_popescu has a marked tendency to go with lenin's 'intelligentsia is not the nation's head but its arsehole'
phf: but if the argument is really reduced to воры/суки then guys above are idiots, because иван иванычи and have all the intelligentsia deficiencies
trinque: and the tools are all shit
trinque: every business on earth needs tools to classify and count their things, and to answer useful questions with this information.
phf: there's greenblatt, tom knight, david moon, daniel weinreb, guy steele, peter norvig, abelson&sussman, jack holloway. stallman and minsky. not to mention cracauer, eller, fahlman, maclachlan, rme, ron garret of the later people that i know of, tons of people i'm forgetting.
phf: graham and naggum are probably not the best examples of lispers. graham wrote cgi scripts for clisp in vi and had unhealthy obsession with macros, did a web startup and sold it at the right time. naggum if he was a little bit dumber would've just been a kook, considering his completely insane angry rants. (and i learned a lot from naggum, but i don't think the manner of his death was a surprise)
assbot: Logged on 29-08-2015 14:17:13; mircea_popescu: and yes, the "scam money rots your brain" think is also a very powerful theory.
asciilifeform: and as i gather, most of the folks involved on anything but the ultra-successful 'lottery winner' end of it, want out.
trinque: well, that seems to be the only way to amass the capital to do interesting things, at least from where I sit.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:23; mircea_popescu: mkay. lemme explain something about markets to you. the sun is infinitely valuable, to the exclusion of all else. nobody (tm) would consider paying for it, and in no case would they pay anything close to fair value (why this is so should be thermodynamically obvious). meanwhile, ipads have no utility and go for hundreds by the million. on top of them, jackpot machine simulations sell for more $$$.
assbot: Logged on 22-05-2015 06:54:48; mircea_popescu: the idea here being that people wouldn't pay for a sane os for the same reason they won't payfor the sun.
asciilifeform: to the conversation
asciilifeform: trinque: but we have yet to establish that there is or could be such a thing as software that is genuinely worth paying for
asciilifeform: it'd be like those crackpot bums who stand on street corners and beg folks to take their self-published 'book'
ben_vulpes: regarding the "may i" spamola, you could issue a license to a trivially-generated pubkey.
asciilifeform: perhaps ben_vulpes can become the hero who makes that unicorn, a software worth paying for..
ben_vulpes: you've not made anything worth paying for, then.
ben_vulpes: no but if they pay.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: this is asking for mountains of 'mother may i' spamola
ben_vulpes: as, of course, verified by your signing a license to their key.
asciilifeform: but it would be an interesting ceremonial flag, in the spirit of mircea_popescu's license thing.
ben_vulpes: right, and there's why.
asciilifeform: if anyone here has the muscles to turn this concoction into a formula which might threaten to work in traditional courts, in some major country - go right ahead.
asciilifeform: 'this program may be redistributed provided that 1) this notice and 2) the original copy of $program, with my pgp signature thereof - are included; and any changes you made to $program must be represented in the form of a vdiff patch signed with a pgp key registered in the Web of Trust.'
asciilifeform: how come nobody asks how well 1958 state of the art would handle on unix ? the batch proggies, on punched cardboard ?
asciilifeform: and talking about how nifty it would be to get 1978 state of the art.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i also can't help but laugh a bit at the phrase 'modern nixy proggies' - we're sorta stuck in 1968 state of the art...
asciilifeform: it is like asking to not only have campfire, but mammoth hunt, in the kitchen.
asciilifeform: using c on lispm did not win you anything in any other case. it is rather like starting a campfire on the floor of your kitchen
asciilifeform: afaik there were not many cases of c proggies being used in practice on lispm
asciilifeform: the trick is that it wasn't c-on-cmachine
ben_vulpes wonders at the notion of runtime debuggability of c-through-lisp
asciilifeform: and use the runtime debuggability and repairability (yes)
ben_vulpes: as well*, right? many other languages too.
ben_vulpes: and the symbolics machines could run c as we
asciilifeform: recall, this was still the tail end of the era where software was just this thing that came with hardware
asciilifeform: as he doesn't have the hardware
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: 'this is the source, no you may not show it to folks who have not bought'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: how tyrannical /were/ the Symbolics licenses?
asciilifeform: there were also experiments in imprisoning them together in specially-designated zones where they would be permitted to rapidly kill off one another.
asciilifeform: (the most notable successes, iirc, were when they hogtied 'blatnoi' leaders and methodically shipped them to distant camps where they would be lowered into pederasty immediately, with all necessary force)
asciilifeform: trinque: btw it was not clear to the folks who ran the camps, that this naturally-occurring system of hierarchy was a net plus re: net tonnage from the mines. hence the 'vory/suka wars' mircea_popescu referenced, a famous case where su authorities tried to monkey with the 'org chart'
trinque: sure but that'd be maybe a degenerate case of the thing
asciilifeform: it is not clear to me that the fella sitting in ru prison barrack who does not a lick of work, other than organizing circle of thugs to squeeze 2x the normative quota from the poor schmucks, serves a purpose
asciilifeform: the queen bee has a biological function.
trinque: perhaps it's a question like "why doesn't the queen bee have to haul all this pollen?"
asciilifeform: if, as mircea_popescu appears to suggest, chingis khan is the 'luxury model' of human, and everybody else is 'man lite version', why does the khan have to enslave engineers ?
asciilifeform: (and today from 'isis', though it is difficult from where i stand to get anything like an honest picture of the latter)
asciilifeform: similar cases were heard of during the chechen wars
asciilifeform: there was an interesting piece in some rag or other, a few weeks ago (?) re: mexican mafia stealing and enslaving white engineers to build their infrastructure
asciilifeform: or thermonuke? or even create so much as a bulldozer ?