mircea_popescu: potential users can go grab the mains
thestringpuller: 16:56 < Aquentin> instead they want price fixing lol - how dum
thestringpuller: 16:56 < Aquentin> you'd think miners would love all these new potential users...
ascii_field was distracted by fist-sized butterfly trying to get through window glass. a very rare sight in this part of the world.
mircea_popescu: the first and foremost function of government : pointing at whose blood must pay for which bytes.
mircea_popescu: there's at least 1k movies that must be kept, and even at the modest 700mb a pop that's 700gb consequently.
mircea_popescu: there's easily plurious gb of music i also similarly want.
mircea_popescu: also ftr, the size of the cd was set that way because a certain bigwig wanted to listen to a certain symphony without interruption.
jurov: there's porn worth preserving?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:47:25; punkman: asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267211 << there is unlikely more than a GB or two worth preserving, period. << eh, geddoutofhere.
mircea_popescu: (the summary of the txn for the curious : 4223 bytes, 250000 fee, 28 inputs of which 17 = 1 satoshi, 2 outputs. none of this should be controversial. fix your implementations of bitcoin relay)
mircea_popescu intends to mine 1mb txn at some point, just for the fu factor.
trinque: "If you wish to eat a nagant, you must first invent the universe."
ascii_field: the only kind we presently have.
ascii_field: jurov: it ended with me scouring several GB of packet dump for the tx and not finding it
mircea_popescu: the relay network is gettng ever shittier.
jurov: how was the tx issue resolved? aa956edc2dd94722b5794eaf4e987ebdc8189d2e4c6334c433d7514a28d6b3ab
trinque: I can think of many applications on the net I'd like to demand only ever say things according to grammar G
mircea_popescu: https://s.zkcdn.net/Advertisers/a2d4e53fd3cf46ceb02ef9b7289225e6.jpg << kinda funny how the cheap catholic doodaad image of jesus from the 1915s is still kicking around
ascii_field: trinque: the 'adult' version would also emit packets. but this is far less essential to 'hardwareize'
assbot: All of the Nopes: "There is no such thing as the crime of 'rape'" and that's arguably not the worst part : againstmensrights ... ( http://bit.ly/1JmXd7o )
mircea_popescu: https://www.reddit.com/r/againstmensrights/comments/3c1pry/all_of_the_nopes_there_is_no_such_thing_as_the/
trinque: ascii_field: just to wrap up the thought, this network device is simply (and exactly) a packet filter that accepts packets through one orifice, checks signatures (presumably has a slot somewhere in its head for pubkeys) and farts them inward via second orifice or drops on the floor
ascii_field: but the basic principle is illustrated.
ascii_field: the ONLY lib i found so far that does something like what is needed is a perl turd, http://bloodgate.com/perl/graph/manual/overview.html
ascii_field: it will destroy the entire thing
punkman: ascii_field: mike_c: i'd prefer that someone were to add the desperately needed topological walker, rather than focusing on the little chipped paint bits, but that's just me << what would this walker do?
mike_c: of course, that is partially because of the hairball that is gnupg..
ascii_field: aha, i didn't. specifically in the interest of keeping it short and destroying redundancy
ben_vulpes: mike_c: and that's after i burned out like 70% of them!
ascii_field: i am also counting the function itself
ascii_field: but all the unix scripting langs are quite alike
ascii_field: i despise the whole language
ben_vulpes: you're not wrong, i just hate the straightjacket of argparse's function call behavior.
trinque: so make a lisp data structure and then derive your argparsing code from... oh wait
ben_vulpes: because the way that argparse suggests you set up function calls is stupid as hell!
ascii_field: as in, why the fuck do i have to change something in 3 separate places when adding a knob
ben_vulpes: mike_c: asciilifeform objected to the "which method, which args" approach to routing around argparse's braindamage, so if you have good ideas down there throw 'em out
ascii_field: rather than foundation for eternal thing
ascii_field: my initial 'v' presses rel1 and the bleeding-edge rel2, yes, but it ought to be regarded as a proof-of-concept
mike_c: ok. i'm working from your tarball. I'll see what the diffs end up looking like
trinque: I dunno about the tactical sense in every soldier creating his own
ascii_field: the way calculator does.
mike_c: whelp, the foundation might as well have an implementation
ascii_field: and that there would exist several incarnations, which do not ever disagree on answers
mike_c: ascii_field: what's the plan here? you want updates signed/posted on the mailing list? we going to use v to manage changes to v?
ascii_field: a valid packet is necessarily 1) rsa'd to the node's ephem-key 2) signed by originator's ephem-key
mike_c: hm, v.py is leaking file descriptors all over the place. muy messy :)
ascii_field: trinque: sig checker ~must~ operate at line speed, and in practice this means it is integral to the die which actually throws the packets around.
ascii_field: the thing to understand is that 'hardware gosspid' nodes would form an impenetrable skin around a p2p sane internet.
trinque doesn't expect fabs on the battlefield, trying to consider what the simplest useful piece of hardware might be
ascii_field: simply means that the enemy needs to spend three minutes adjusting his shit cannon
trinque: what if it didn't verify the sig; it just verified that it looks like a sig, and hands off to something that can
mircea_popescu: (the 2nd clause)
mircea_popescu: ie, you put the filter node up, yet it can't be accessed because syn flood. irrespective of its function.
mike_c: and if i alter one of the public keys more tests fail, so that's good.
ascii_field: jurov: aha. see the old gossipd thread.
jurov: the discussion is about per-packet signature verification
mircea_popescu: everyone all the time.
mircea_popescu: because cpus are so much better than pipes these days, a dirty little secret the us telcos have managed to hide from their market like they managed to hide the fact that NOBODY CHARGES FOR INCOMING CALLS!!11,
jurov: and they examine each packet signature?
mircea_popescu: and this without any sort of imperial investments, either. also quite deliberately, and at least in part for the reason of this discussion.
ben_vulpes: mike_c: that is the test i left off at. feel free to replace the "gotcha" assertion with an actual test, or just eliminate the assertion completely.
mircea_popescu: jurov consider the experimentally verified, and publicly at that, fact that ddos couldn't do any appreciabvle harm to qntra, or trilema.
trinque: provided the device *works* obviously
ascii_field: or rather, doesn't end, but becomes a voluntary idiocy like running winblowz
ben_vulpes: and then on top of that, every project i pick up has some arcane setup for running its tests, because...legacy.
ascii_field: trinque, jurov: if device which silently drops unsigned (or signed by unblessed) packets straight on the floor were mass-produced and inexpensive, ddos as a thing ends.
jurov: i'm trying to imagine this thing. if we are going to have 1000 nodes , they will necessarily be on misc home connections
ben_vulpes: it should run with python -m unittest from the same directory as v, but...
mike_c: i'm just trying to run the tests for now :)
mircea_popescu: ascii_field dude let people do what they do.
ascii_field: mike_c: i'd prefer that someone were to add the desperately needed topological walker, rather than focusing on the little chipped paint bits, but that's just me
trinque: seems that if everything coming/going is parsed, verified, it drastically reduces the amount of remote exploitation possible
ascii_field: where there was room for exactly one transmitter/receiver per continent
mircea_popescu: jurov recourse is to have many of them.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and that's also what the msr license is all about, too.
jurov: only recourse is for the enemy to not know exact endpoint
ascii_field: trinque: imho it is the only correct way to make a network at all.
ascii_field: some time during the original gossipd thread
trinque: I have a question regarding this. Would a device operating at the network boundary, parsing packets and only permitting some signed wad in, only signed wads out be valuable in any way?
mircea_popescu: maybe. i'm firmly in the camp of "let people try things"
mircea_popescu: the same exact principle is to be employed throughout : either they ignore the bits which makes them uncompetitivew
mircea_popescu: anyway, incorporated here by reference, the discussion where i showed you how holding bitcoin destroys nsa.
mircea_popescu: for the same rason disinfo agent is stuck discussing "quiantum hjardening" and "cpu arch based attacks". ie, he is NOT ALLOWED to give even a single inch. which terribly boxes him in.
ascii_field: rewritten in ruby, claimed to have been in steady use at stanford since 1995, the whole orchestra.
mircea_popescu: (it will be. and to THEIR detriment, because it's very much a poison pill for that entire industree)
mircea_popescu is looking forward to thew v-tron being misrepresented as "drm".
mircea_popescu: very well oiled, the cattle machine.
mircea_popescu: "the xt is not a huge privacy hole because you can recompile it not to be. we're banking on thefact the fucktards in usg-zoo won'tanyway. we don't sign binaries but it could be done if needed except we're banking on idem"
mircea_popescu: shinohai the key to success is to not answer to negative people. he knows because altman said so.
mircea_popescu: (and a forced mistake, too. in odrder to avoid noticing the isomorphism between yourself and turd in the sun, you're stuck breaking the isomorphism recognizer)
jurov: i remember we discussed when the patch went in
mircea_popescu: ascii_field their inability to observe isomorphism is one of their lulziest features.
shinohai: He never responded to my queries as to why he is too good to sign binaries he barfs out to the wider internet.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: a) enemy reads the logs, mega-surprise aha b) this is roughly isomorphic to the old behaviour, 'crash when full'
trinque: mircea_popescu: yes I think using "the logs" has a lot of fruit left to give
BingoBoingo: lol, the Hearnia mempool solution is randomly drop tx so that all spam has a home somewhere https://archive.is/NgRdK
ascii_field: it is very easy to become convinced that the only available item doesn't suck
mircea_popescu: trinque i woke up last night to the fact that email only persists because we havewn't fully groked the importance and effects of b-a yet.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: imho you were falling into this very bear trap with the 'nano' thread
mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, that's not the point. the point is that what, seriously, ima sit here and go "hey, this shit's pretty good" ?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:35:42; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267767 << this is a CATASTROPHICALLY bad idea, because any attempt is simply asking for self-delusionary masamunification (sorry gabriel_laddel, but you know precisely what i mean.) -- this being, 'aha this is a turd, but WE made it and therefore doesn't stink and is somehow edible'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267916 << you must think very little of me then!
BingoBoingo: trinque: All email providers suck. I don't endorse fastmail, but I condemn it less than other options.
mircea_popescu: lobbes people assume this is the case but i have not observed it to be true.
mircea_popescu: but i'd note that if there was a #derive-assets where i could get a half hour's window, this would be a non problem.
lobbes: mircea_popescu: if you are not playing you 'fall behind' the economy? though, that is the beauty of the 'encouraged bots' system
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i suppose it is a win then that i cannot ask stoutemyer anything. after all, my only qualification is 'can walk', aha.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267901 << it's an epic fucking win. they can still READ.
lobbes: but hence, the 'generally'
assbot: Who are these Russian fighters posting pics of themselves in Syria? - BBC News ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkI1Je )
ascii_field: the one where you were a lone diversant sent behind enemy lines, and had to choose whether the weight of, e.g., extra demo charge is worth losing three frags or five pistol clips, etc
mircea_popescu: those fucking pipes. you had to defend the pipes.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field hey, i dunno if you ever played this, but there was a GREAT, an absoluterly fucking fantastic game in the pre-windows days
mircea_popescu: the hercules moves like a dozen planes, and actually flies.
trinque: the largest one seemed capable of moving more than a few tanks
ascii_field: trinque: 'экраноплан' - but think of it as a very fast gunboat, rather than a plane
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: self-steering projectile ~really~ wants to be a rocket, not only because guidance apparatus costs and so may as well include large warhead, but also because changing direction kills velocity if all you got is the acceleration in the barrel (classical bullet)
trinque thought the caspian sea monster and other ground-effect planes were this, but recently considered the value of massive transport across the caspian and black seas
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2015 04:28:52; asciilifeform: in j. sladek's 'tik tok', sf novel in '83, in the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built
mircea_popescu: and MIT was adverttiosing "learn how to light lightbulbs and other wonders of 1800 science! TODAY!"
trinque: there was some DoD wank about self-steering bullets
ascii_field: (before window closes ! while they're worth something !)
ascii_field: trinque: why not simply throw trunks of benjies at the enemy, aha
mircea_popescu: not many folks remember today where their asshole is located. wut of it.
mircea_popescu: yes the plane.
mircea_popescu: (/me vaguely suspects that much like the french get the trophy for "last and therefore best supersonic air transport", the ru may get the trophy for "last and therefore best" fighter jet. i somehow doubt a better one's ever getting made, by anyone)
trinque: the plane?
mircea_popescu: trinque anyway, the su's got that superb su, they gotta use it before the window closes in 5 -10years.
mircea_popescu: it'd only be like the nth time historically lol.
mircea_popescu: lmao if the romanians manage the performance of leasing some land to the russians right next to the land their leased the americans to make their military bases
trinque: http://www.rt.com/news/314787-russia-air-bases-csto/ << damn, USistan is weaker by the day.
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> Interlocking cuts, glue, and clamps are the way, the truth, and the light in furniture << aye aye
thestringpuller: https://www.reddit.com/domain/qntra.net/ << the first one was submitted during low traffic time. the other three have different titles.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller ahaha win. downvoted erry time ?
mircea_popescu: i thought they just had san
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: they have many more than 2 ты/вы addresses
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 19:33:01; mircea_popescu: the cannonical rejection of misplaced familiarity being "nu suntem deopotriva" ie, we're not of the same social level.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller your article ever end up onb twitter ?
mircea_popescu: the cannonical rejection of misplaced familiarity being "nu suntem deopotriva" ie, we're not of the same social level.
mircea_popescu: anyway in ro it has an entire migrated family : deopotriva (of the same ilk), impotriva (against) etc
ascii_field: look at the czechs
mircea_popescu: aokthen
mircea_popescu: sad that the anglos have no languages, or linguistics whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: what the word describes is a purely intellectual situation, today.
ascii_field: 'sergeant: private! why were you walking the street wearing the pants of the Likely Enemy ?!' ('80s ru army joke)
trinque: I eagerly await the overturning of the world, as it has been chewing the back of my mind a long while.
mircea_popescu: but anyway : "racism" is exactly the derp word for sexual preference. the reason some people don't like other people is purely sexual.
ascii_field: there is literally nothing secret on this box.
mircea_popescu is not gonna bother
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: feel free to log in & zero the disk whenever.
assbot: ‘No Blacks’ Is Not a Sexual Preference. It’s Racism - The Daily Beast ... ( http://bit.ly/1LkCMcx )
mircea_popescu: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/09/no-blacks-is-not-a-sexual-preference-it-s-racism.html <<<->>> http://whitebecky00.tumblr.com/
trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/09/us-ukraine-crisis-exclusive-idUSKCN0R924G20150909 << "The plan includes a site for studying the tactics of the U.S. Army, which was called a "likely enemy" in the document."
mircea_popescu: and we probably won't bother to answer, and they'll derp more, in their children, and so it goes.
mircea_popescu: but they are, and so we can't.
ascii_field: and it was where 'bleeding edge' therealbitcoin lived.
mircea_popescu: yeah well. unfortunate is what the world's made of.
ascii_field: the demise of this box is unfortunate. i was gonna put an experimental version of www-ized 'v' explorer there, also
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:39:38; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267236 << the path to fits-in-head STRICTLY depends on every particular thing on the machine being implemented ONCE. this includes lexer, parser, related items.
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267816 << to continue this thread, my contention is that while many things I write with special notation could just as well be s-exprs, making me read and write these things as s-exprs is catastrophic
mircea_popescu: i didn't boither measuring early, who the fuck cares, but i would guess it did 10k an hour or some shit
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:04:44; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267551 << for what, exactly ? and did the asteroid hit, or what, is there a shortage of cn speakers now?
mircea_popescu: different tools for different jobs as it were. the corrosive substance of usg-ness makes anyth9ng on the public net vulnerable, and zerging the only possible approach to survival.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the 'checkpoint' thing is actually useless as implemented now, it merely skips verification for the listed blocks
mircea_popescu: and have a airgapped system with the full history etc that's not exposed to the internet.
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah but the idea being that you run many nodes with smaller disks for day to day ops
jurov: even after checkpoints, it's nice to have for querying the history
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:56:36; asciilifeform: yes, bury it in the forest for 80 years and perhaps it will leak.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you know how the code nos supports "developer mandated" checkpoints ?
mircea_popescu: there are some fine examples from chinese era of overabundance when they used supertiny nails.
trinque: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/09/us-mideast-crisis-syria-exclusive-idUSKCN0R91H720150909 << I continue to see the future demise of the US empire in this.
mircea_popescu: but i don't think it detracts from the actual point.
mircea_popescu: there are NUMEROUS contests where people in modern bases lose to partisans.
mircea_popescu: not so. there is no contest where people armed with rifles lose to people armed with bows.
mircea_popescu: modern military still suffers of the problem of the panzer 80 years ago : can take any position and hold absolutely none.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:41:49; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267274 << gabriel_laddel: you are speaking mostly to folks who haven't grasped lisp. sorta like showing a modern army base to medieval commander - he will not be able to see past it being 'a terrible castle, where the fuck are the walls and moats'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267818 << for the record, a "modern military base" IS a horrible castle.
ascii_field: fella in the robe ?
deedbot-: [Trilema] Ars gratia artis sau cum era, or The function and the functioning of art part deux - http://trilema.com/2015/ars-gratia-artis-sau-cum-era-or-the-function-and-the-functioning-of-art-part-deux/
mircea_popescu: well at least it doesn't have the word retard on it.
shinohai: In other copyright news, the author of the song "Eye of the Tiger" is considering suing Kim Davis for using the song at her release from jail rally yesterday.
shinohai: Thx. 2600 was like the first irc server I ever used.
assbot: You rated user shinohai on 03-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..
ascii_field: 'I did some ink backgrounds for my upcoming artworks, and I thought I'd share the textures with the rest of the world. Free for non-commercial/commercial use. Feel free to post on your blogs etc. Crediting is not required, but would be nice.'
punkman: funny how http://www.lcs.global/ http://www.trunkarchive.com/ http://www.picscout.com/ are all related but don't mention each other
ascii_field: 'You see, not only are they trying to get us to pay them for using a few ink splotches, but as it turns out, the ink splotches don't belong to them in the first place! Our cover artist happened to keep meticulous records (probably not something they anticipated) and traced the source of the ink splotches to a Finnish artist...'
punkman: "It's indeed impressive that Trunk Archive managed to match these little ink splotches." << makes one wonder how much computing power is being wasted on this
ascii_field: punkman: how else would you propose to verify that the drive can hold the X MB that vendor claimed it holds ?
jurov: badblocks test was inconsequential, cuz the drive could easily optimize it away
jurov: punkman i got a crate of pogos, doing some research about matchin'them with cheap ssd's
ascii_field: these measurements can be deceptive re: pogo in particular, on account of the latter's sensitivity to cpu and especially bus starvation
jurov: (urandom gives paltry 18MB/s, another annoyance of today)
ascii_field: on account of the high cpu overhead
ascii_field: jurov: my experiments led me to the conclusion that usb (at least usb2) won't cut it, period.
punkman: jurov: so does the cheap ssd work?
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punkman: VariaVarietatis: you should be able to find them on your favourite chinese gadget website
jurov: punkman: here teh manul only says "the word "random", which specifies that the block should be filled with a random bit pattern."
VariaVarietatis: ok thanks for all the help.
punkman: jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block << it says this in the manual
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: I looked in the logs for this info found nothing sorry also stuff on maillist is only about building not using.
VariaVarietatis: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Original_Bitcoin_client/API_calls_list#Full_list < list on the wiki
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: what other commands can be used?
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: datadir? i'm running one copy connected then used another copy to run LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance 12R4kPeSK6i9427ctH15j2NcJ1ST1FT21C gives me 0.0 but checking on blockchain it shows me this account has 27 btc
VariaVarietatis: jurov: in the bitcoin-cli it does
shinohai: Same as the old days bitcoind getbalance, etc
VariaVarietatis: point me to how to test my rotor is working? It seems to be able to getblockinfo but not getbalance using bitcoin-cli can't seem to find anything in the logs, mostly due to not knowing that to search for.
shinohai: What is hilarious ascii_field is *their whole lives are just shattered* because they cannot monitor their snowflakes from a screen.
ben_vulpes: what's the deal, VariaVarietatis?