jurov: i don't see why this of all is the problem, objects usually know which table/column is the field wired to
trinque: on the SQL side you're more than welcome to create new sets at will via views
trinque: mircea_popescu: the mismatch I was referring to was the object-relational-mapper; it cannot for example (easily, or usably) create a new object which is the synthesis of n other objects done by inner join
jurov: trinque i'd rather have lazy evaluator that collects the filters and operations I normally have in the program, and compiles them together into optimized query and executes it only when the result is needed
mircea_popescu: trinque can i get "this" and "that" comparisons of the actual thing ? "ceci n'est pas une pipe" "this is not a pipe" sort of thing
asciilifeform: circuitry with the ion beam ... I realized what was going on almost instantly: the antenna effect. The bond wire and leadframe connected to each pad in the device was acting as an antenna and coupling some of the 13.56 MHz RF energy from the plasma into the input buffers, blowing out the ESD diodes and input transistors, and leaving me with a dead chip.'
asciilifeform: 'Once everything was done and the chamber was vented I removed the carbon coating with oxygen plasma (the cleanroom's standard photoresist removal process), packaged up my sample, went home, and soldered it back to the board for testing. After powering it up... nothing! The device was as dead as a doornail, I couldn't even get a JTAG IDCODE from it. ... ... ruled out beam-induced damage as I had not been hitting any of the I/O
asciilifeform: 'Once the via was drilled and it appeared we had made contact with the signal trace, it was time to backfill with platinum. The video below is sped up 10x to avoid boring my readers ;)'
trinque: these document stores are nothing more than "What, you don't already know the key of the value you want?" and subsequently "Well fuck, how do we tack relational ideas back onto this, now that we've abandoned all notion of formal structure?"
trinque: and the observation which led to databases in the first place is that questions like the above arise constantly; they are not thought of once and etched into the program in stone
trinque: jurov: I simply wish to sit with my data-set and say "give me the X for which this lambda evaluates true, retrieve its related Y and Z, compute this aggregate over the related Y and Z; do this again with another lambda. Return the paginated list of the intersection of the two result sets"
asciilifeform: there are 'people' programming computers who wouldn't have been allowed within cannon shot of a tractor in kolhoz, yes
trinque: SQLAlchemy or the like?
kakobrekla: the layer on top (at least mine) generates queries deterministically and the result is not obstructed
trinque: the usefulness of this declarative mode is I think as you describe, "get me a that" damn it, because I want one.
trinque: this magic is why (as I understand it) asciilifeform abhors the thing; you have in no way been involved with what steps will be taken to compute the result other than describing the result itself, barring again, the places where actual programming crept back in
trinque: one place you'll find c-like expressions and functions; another you find set union and difference operators which work entirely via magic
trinque: the huge problem with relational databases is that they conflated programming and declarative data access to the detriment of both
kakobrekla: this one: <trinque> frustrate you by hiding functionality of the underlying
kakobrekla: most folks most of the time dont need 'functionality', just like with sugar.
mircea_popescu: seriously, leaving aside everything else, why the fuck would you make THIRTY EIGHT DIFFERENT FILES ?
mircea_popescu: i would much rather spend five minutes writing queries than figuring why the fuck copy *. doesn't work and ending up using cat
asciilifeform: stuck 'wrestling with the pig'
asciilifeform: which is why man so often becomes servant of machine, rather than vice versa
mircea_popescu: and honestly i don't mind it so much. about the same as my life generally, really.
asciilifeform: folks tend to confuse the two
asciilifeform: '...control interfaces must not be intelligent. Briefly, intelligent user interfaces should be limited to applications in which the user does not expect to control the behavior of the product. If the product is used as a tool, its interface should be as unintelligent as possible. Stupid is predictable; predictable is learnable; learnable is usable.'
asciilifeform: intuited << see one of the better mr mold pieces re: same, http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2009/07/wolfram-alpha-and-hubristic-user.html
mircea_popescu: the only way it could be useful is if it somehow intuited what the columns are actually named for me so i don't have to always keep checking
trinque: frustrate you by hiding functionality of the underlying
kakobrekla: <trinque> SQL also, "lets make a language for accountants and other non-programmers" < yet is anyone still writing raw queries in this day?
asciilifeform: mips_ejtag_drscan_8_out(ejtag_info, MCHP_DE_ASSERT_RST); << motherfuckers. WE ARE SO SPESHUL, can't use standard mips reset ahahaha.
thestringpuller: "the wrath of alfdog" << great name for a hip hop album
mircea_popescu: in other news, "you should perhaps point out to your mother that being ugly is no excuse to rawdog drunks" is my new favourite insult.
mircea_popescu: as far as her dumb ass is concerned, the best possible train is a ghetto blaster with the volume welded to low, playing christmas carrols from under the mirrors-ensconced speakers.
thestringpuller: what's with all the danny devito reviews on da blogs?
asciilifeform: trying to make a programming language for ~the wrong side of the camel hump~ is like trying to build a car for folks missing both arms and legs
mircea_popescu: motherfucker i hated larry's comprehension.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform same problem is why everyone hates what originally seemed obvious and intuitive : the text powered adventure
trinque: they at (the very) least made something of a double-back somewhere along the language's history
trinque: SQL also, "lets make a language for accountants and other non-programmers"
trinque: interesting. there you see that abstraction increases complexity clearly, by way of an exaggerated case
asciilifeform: (in short, the disambiguation has to be done like-so; and you can use pronouns, but only like-so)
asciilifeform: the reason was that using english as it permits itself to be used, specifically fails, in ways which the hypertalk docs did not take any pains to describe
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 16:23:54; mircea_popescu: i dunno why the fuck this point is so unobvious, but : most of the intellectual gains humanity has made came after it decided to do what science always does : arbitrarily clamp down on complexity in one place to use this as leverage against complexity elsewhere.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329763 << with regards to mathematics, it was ~specifically~ about tying folks' dirty, sticky, shit-covered 'intuitive language brain' monkey hands and forcing formal reasoning
mircea_popescu: anyway, again not sure why this isn't obvious, but the alphabet is (still is, in spite of all the "help" geeks gave it) a defined, closed, easily countable set.
jurov: they try to take existing language and leverage it, too
mircea_popescu: (it actually makes the level raise slightly, but that is part of the "hope and pray" definition of abstraction yesterday - we hope and pray it dun matter.)
mircea_popescu: i said "clamp down in one place" not "reduce". how the fuck are you goingto reduce complexity and why aren't you moving on to entropy next!
jurov: adding a meaning for a word that already has zillion of other meanings, instead of using dedicated symbol is NOT reducing complexity
mircea_popescu: a lot more to do with the brilliant idea of "use these letters and fuck you and your ugly mother."
mircea_popescu: there is a fucking reason white people are better than all the other people, and it has jack shit to do with the skin.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why the fuck this point is so unobvious, but : most of the intellectual gains humanity has made came after it decided to do what science always does : arbitrarily clamp down on complexity in one place to use this as leverage against complexity elsewhere.
asciilifeform: (imho the idea of 'natural language program' is fundamentally, deeply braindamaged like few other ideas)
asciilifeform would like to read mircea_popescu's notation-less mathematical work. i bet it is rather like euclid on lsd
mircea_popescu: a) none of these derps know any maths and b) i do and somehow survive. if you need a particular notation to do maths either you're not very good or are trying to talk to idiots.
asciilifeform: for the most part that is what i keep around on dead tree
mircea_popescu: what the fuck is wrong wiht plain text omfg.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ergo the popularity of mechanized b00kz
mircea_popescu: god damned it i'd rather be a z80/
mircea_popescu shudders at the thought he actually had to "turn a page" every 1k bytes.
mircea_popescu: what about them ?
mircea_popescu: which i suppose counts for "368" pages in lalaland wherew they do 1k characters per page.
asciilifeform: but the... contents
asciilifeform: it isn't the weight
asciilifeform: the thorne turd
asciilifeform briefly took a break from debugging a motherfucking debugger
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform speaking of defending, see the latest trilema.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329655 << the 'PK' didn't give it away ??
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329662 << gianni rodari had a rhyme about 'the girl that wanted a song just for her and nobody else'
asciilifeform: 'To those who would retain their right to personal property: your only true allies are the pirates. Not lending libraries, not reasonably priced and humane iTunes-like services. The pirates are the only people presently defending the no-compromise, My-Computer-is-Mine point of view.' -- yours truly
assbot: Loper OS » To Lend is the Right of an Owner – That is, Not You. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TY5dDA )
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 13:59:58; mircea_popescu: "this book is sold subject to the condition that it won't be lent"
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 13:51:32; mircea_popescu: shinohai because there are way more people than jobs.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329651 >> but there are ~precisely~ as many people as there are picks at butugychag
assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 13:46:27; mircea_popescu: fine example if alf's greatest fear, he wasn't nearly this derpy back before martin luther king.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329646 >> perhaps somebody will have the basic decency to feed me a bullet prior
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-11-2015#1329599 >> 'the map is not the territory but the territory didn't fit in my glove compartment'
punkman: https://i.vimeocdn.com/video/502526058.jpg saw Uncle Vanya yesterday. here's the set chekov-gun'd until the fucking picture frames are empty.
mircea_popescu: "hosting fees are expensive" my foot. they're only expensive because "oh i just wanna be a designer" all over the place.
mircea_popescu: take some text, put it through "Aspose.Words for .NET 10.6.0.0" so you can have <span></span> for every other word like in the old days of microsoft computing, and then zip the shit and call it "epub".
mircea_popescu: space, legal issues, or not being very good, and put them in this one.
mircea_popescu: thought it would be easier to simply collect all the material I have
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">ather than go to any real effort, I
mircea_popescu: style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif"> enough hours in the day.
mircea_popescu: clock episodes of Property Virgins on HGTV and sleeping to do, there never
mircea_popescu: should have put in more effort but you know how it is. With round the
mircea_popescu: book. </span><span style="font-family:Arial, sans-serif">Or at least the
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: "this book is sold subject to the condition that it won't be lent"
punkman: you can unzip the epub, you'll get html
mircea_popescu: punkman i just went in a cycle asking "then why the fuck are they not calling it .txt" and answering myself the line above to shinohai and now i feel a little queasy.
mircea_popescu: shinohai because there are way more people than jobs.
mircea_popescu: meh, epub. i'll wait for the text version.
mircea_popescu: fine example if alf's greatest fear, he wasn't nearly this derpy back before martin luther king.
assbot: I'll Go Home Then, It's Warm and Has Chairs: The Unpublished Emails. | David Thorne | digital library bookzz ... ( http://bit.ly/21bjUrg )
punkman: saw this in the cinema long time ago. puts it on rewatch list.
mircea_popescu: in other news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/186b118d7872656083275f142326edad/tumblr_mgf1plcMTW1rmkahco1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: guy comes in, "hey, isn't that dog pissing in your shoe bothering you ?!"
ben_vulpes: what does it mean then.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i meant abstraction in the sense of software that composes small tools into larger units that...operate at a higher level of abstraction.
mircea_popescu: (there's a very good reason they keep going on with cow and dog are animal. there was a great paper in the log about "you know what, just change your chosen names to hashes, see if teh system appears to be doing as much "understanding" as it did before.)
mircea_popescu: (what apparently nobody wants to mention is that the "good" oop now corrupted by teh evil orcs was really a child of desperation. pretty much born out of the mit through c-section, in the classical sense)
mircea_popescu: phf the problem with the village of ugly women is that well, there's probably something wrong with the water. yes the people now involved may be subpar for whatever reason or explanation to do with them. maybe. or maybe THIS offshot of the hope to ai is just as rotten as the rest of the various attempts to ai that preceded it.
mircea_popescu: i don't think we mean the same by abstraction. it's not a sort of cool. it's basically purification.
ben_vulpes: because a corpus through which one can grep exists, the forum can on an ongoing basis can communicate ever more abstractly?
mircea_popescu: the fundamental point of the written word is that allows a certain sort of abstraction. it's "escapism" in a particular sense.
ben_vulpes: is there some russian joke in there about how the bits that are cut are never the relevant ones?
mircea_popescu: or without the baby crying.
ben_vulpes: speaking without cuts then means to communicate intelligibly even without the bits that the censors stripped?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he means he can talk without bothering with the annoying sorts of context.
phf: it's actually from latin caesura, which is now used as the name of pause in a poem. i thought caesarean section comes from that, but wikipedia article has a very confusing "etymology" section so i don't even know what to believe anymore!
phf: ben_vulpes: "without cuts", купюра is from french coupure, and in this case means the parts that are cut out by the censor
ben_vulpes: tres annoying to pass the same args around constantly.
ben_vulpes: in re fp, dunno that anyone noticed, but i backpedaled from the global state fatwa in my v poc
phf: but nice thing about log, can talk без купюр, get called out. otherwise it's of little relevance what sort of education phds get or what you can buy at a bookstore. we're sort of long on the same page that status quo is subpar
phf: asciilifeform: rightly so, conversation around oop is long rotten, they are working over fp now :) above wall of text is more of an archaeological find
adlai: new TLD for the W, DC: .orc
asciilifeform: (there are sore spots, aha. but this one here's a woman and the other one is a sack of potatoes with fuckhole drilled in)
asciilifeform: talk to the smalltalk aficionados.
mircea_popescu: (ie, we don't even know the sore spots of say kay objects, mostly because they never got a chance to be found mostly because idiots came and covered everything)
mircea_popescu: on top of which, i suspect there's a large chunk of "strange woman" in all this also.
asciilifeform: and we're actually long past the point where a typical instructor (phd) learned on the latter
asciilifeform: because - like it or not - when you walk into the book shop, or even the university library, today, and look for oop - you don't get a. kay's smalltalk, s. keene's clos, or kiczales's 'metaobject protocol.' you get: java, 'gang of four', and other swill.
asciilifeform: (see, e.g., mircea_popescu's reaction when the subject was brought up)
asciilifeform: phf: the last 20+ yrs of nonlisp resulted in the typical sane and technically-literate fella having an extreme allergy to just about any mention of oop
phf: a lot of "expected" oop behaviors like objects owning methods, synchronous bidirectional messaging that is equivalent to a procedure call, extreme early binding, etc. are artifacts of implementation and optimization strategies, as such they don't have meaning, don't have "real world" correspondence and just are. building taxonomies on such a shaky theoretical foundation results in a very messy thinking
phf: i was saying that agents/actor is the only valuable dydactic take on object orientation in real world, it both properly traces oop history and also has meaningful parallels in biology and physics.
phf: but that's the well known one).
phf: funkenstein_: alan kay's objects communicate with each other by sending messages. this is the approach taken explicitly in smalltalk, flavors (one of the lisp machine lisps), objective-c. the idea was inspired by john mccarthy's earlier concept of agents, intelligent systems that engage into q/a sessions with a user. a concurrent take on the same idea is called actors model and is implemented in erlang (and a bunch of other languages,
asciilifeform: 'I am curious as to how many jurors they went through before they found a non Costco member.....or if they did.' << from commentz
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha, and also from earlier photo set with the gift shop and the statue of some saint
assbot: A Tale of Two Breakfasts, or, The Whore's Broth on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1W2MtlA )
assbot: A Tale of Two Breakfasts, or, The Whore's Broth on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1W2MtlA )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: From http://trilema.com/2015/a-tale-of-two-breakfasts-or-the-whores-broth/ ?
funkenstein_: so here's a fun one: take yi yi zhi yi and add a "fen" in the middle: yi yi fen zhi yi
gribble: The operation succeeded.
phf: but since you can't do that in the format of american higher education, we're stuck with dog and cow bullshit
phf: you can attempt to teach oop that reflects the real world, but then you should be talking in terms of communicating agents, and that will lead you to the chinese room, at which point you'd be amiss not drop some acid.
ben_vulpes: teaching OOP with models that "reflect the real world" instead of the programming environment is bad pedagogy and does a massive disservice to anyone who endures it.
phf: alan kay's, sonya keene's, etc. examples are window systems and thread locks, where's every single shitty intro to objects book uses the utterly meaningless "dog and cow are subclasses of animal".
phf: just because you can do it, doesn't give it meaning. in fact that sort of attempts at ontology result in a lot of bad code. (not to mention that they are doomed to failure, e.g. semantic web)
asciilifeform: ^ in there somewhere.
asciilifeform is set to 'sloth' and too lazy to dig up the old patton thread
BingoBoingo: Patton also loved playing with dolls when he grew up and kept wearing dresses long after the neighbor kids stopped
mircea_popescu: shooter, the fastest runner, big league ball players, the toughest boxers. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. I wouldn't give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost and never will lose a war, because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans."
mircea_popescu: "...Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Men, all this stuff you've heard about America not wanting to fight - wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of horse dung. Americans traditionally love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble
BingoBoingo: WTF UK press recongugal words, the WWE event with the "terror threat" is survivor series not survival series
mircea_popescu: it is altogether dubious that brownian motion is a stochastic process.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/621120/Anonymous-publish-a-list-of-ISIS-targets-after-hacking-their-terrorist-network << teh usg press is claiming this, seems dubious
BingoBoingo: It's from the mines
asciilifeform: the cone seems oddly vertical
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you own that juice chair ? i'd like to know how it works: which way do the legs go? through the metal brace, or is the latter a backrest?
ben_vulpes: the sobriety kick if still in effect has been good lulz
kakobrekla: depends how far the planet is
linton_s_dawson: so disconnection from the outer world doesn't seem feasible unless i'm on another planet
adlai: if there's an "outer world", you may have violated "where it has nothing to do with fiat"?
mircea_popescu: or else your 5 apples delusion is crushed by the outer world supply.
linton_s_dawson: indeed. the community must consist of "true believers" as well, i guess, since external factors can easily screw things up. like, if 1 btc buys 5 apples in my community but 1000 apples in the outer world.
mircea_popescu: this question is a lot less theoretical than it seems, seeing how eulora.
mircea_popescu: in general the supply side is going to be "as many btc as that community can get hands on" and the demand side will be "all the goods and services it wants to trade".
kakobrekla: the same if you exchange it on buttstamp
linton_s_dawson: mircea_popescu: i've seen your argument regarding the "true" value of a bitcoin where it has nothing to do with fiat. do you have a way to determine it? say, i start a community and we agree to use bitcoin as a currency. how many apples would one bitcoin (bit, satoshi, etc.) buy?
BingoBoingo: <kakobrekla> or was it zeus? << Brodin, the All Spotter
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron well that'd be a different thing then wouldn't it.
assbot: Logged on 21-11-2015 17:43:09; mircea_popescu: now you're presuming there exists a heavenly Births & Deaths register
adlai: so all retards are retarded in His image, but some retards are 'more equal than others'?
assbot: Logged on 21-11-2015 17:33:32; mircea_popescu: well yes, the problem with the magical thinking of retards is that they assume there's a divinity somehwere in whose image they were made.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> hilariously, because they handed out a diploma-shaped object at the ceremony, but it was actually some spam << SOP
asciilifeform: hilariously, because they handed out a diploma-shaped object at the ceremony, but it was actually some spam
asciilifeform: they mailed'em. in cardboard pipes.
mircea_popescu: couldn't be arsed to send a lawyer after it - to put it with the tax papers.
mircea_popescu: went once, was a queue, took a girl for coffee and welll... there it waits, no doubt.
mircea_popescu: i never bothered to pick it up myself.
asciilifeform: because sad landz of the phonemically-challenged ?
asciilifeform: they sold'em at my uni shop.
mircea_popescu: http://russiapedia.rt.com/of-russian-origin/avoska/ << yeah, good point - how come the us campus isn't full of these ? they're envirofriendly!
mircea_popescu: anyway, /me enjoyed the spin. really, the gop "may take out" trump ? the gop can't as much as take out the garbage.
mircea_popescu: hey, maybe they feel like strangers "in their own country" because it ain't their own fucking country, and yes they are strangers.
mircea_popescu: and in other matriarchy news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/8c383ac134dd387f67bd344b6d6b5cac/tumblr_nomc3niZ6D1svmr38o1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, when rage of mages hit the market in the 90s, what the educated ro kids were saying was omfg, bilibin lives!)
mircea_popescu: (also there)
mircea_popescu: he stops passerby, more or less with hands and props they manage to understand each other. passerby looks around, identifies a tree, points to it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw ever told you the joke of the muscovite trying to take a shit in bucharest ?
asciilifeform: http://russiapedia.rt.com/of-russian-origin << many lulz, esp. in the choice of listed items
mircea_popescu: "Go to Japan when he is transmitted (the mid-5th century), the board is there to make a box. The Remains of the back hole in the center had been opened for the sound effects. Blood reservoir (No Chi) Name of the samurai in the game of Go was the accomplishment, the spectators came from the mouth (first eight came through clearly), cut off by a samurai sword to the neck of the angry flip board , put the head of the bloo
mircea_popescu: what you call it ain't the lynchpin of this here lynch mob.
mircea_popescu: "Regardless of whether you waive the fine or not, and despite conditional terms added to reassert authority" being the point of interest.
mircea_popescu: but in point of fact, the whole distance is this : that you want the word unary and all the items equal. whereas the world is not even coherent
mircea_popescu: this is what derpy libertards call, for the short distance their congenital apnea allows them to run it, "critiquing the entrenched patriarchy"
mircea_popescu: nor, in point of fact, is there one now.
mircea_popescu: admire : you want that to be there so that you and ants are made by the same god so therefore, and i underscore, therefore, if the ants were owners of the world there still were a place in the world for you.
mircea_popescu: specifically because it was not vague at all, but both specific and a fundamental requisite of the thinking in question.
funkenstein_: lets make a metric then: differentiation in societal roles
mircea_popescu: tell me funkenstein_ what do you have "socialization" mean in there ?
mircea_popescu: actually upon rereading that spoken poem, i notice a hole the light might perhaps be brought in!
asciilifeform: at any rate, legend is that the cavity is for the severed head of 'hint giver' spectator during castle matches
asciilifeform: my brother owns one, fwiw
asciilifeform: (part of the deal is that it has to be made of a sufficiently thick tree, no glue allowed)
asciilifeform: adlai: these are typically found in the old-style 'kaya' wood boards, the kind having legs
adlai doesn't have one of these
mircea_popescu: you show me a roomfull of 20 year olds that all supposedly have an intuitive understanding of number theory, i see both the reason poor brin looks like he sucks corcoduse his entire life and a candidate for hanging.
asciilifeform: this is kinda what civilians end up doing with mathematical terminology.
asciilifeform: there is a legend, iirc, that a go board & stones set somehow made its way to euler. but sans the rules, or any reasonable notion thereof! he then inferred that it was played by throwing the stones into the little cavity on the underside of the board.
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu, no offense taken. I have mostly explored Red Square at my own leisure, but still consider myself a stranger there.
mircea_popescu: the crime of math is that people have gone on this "intuitive" kick. it only works RARELY.
asciilifeform cringes when folks who otherwise show no symptoms of a mathematical past speak of 'metrics' etc
adlai: but TCO doesn't help spiders recurse through the log-tree
asciilifeform was just about to utter something like what mircea_popescu just observed re: the maths, but now doesn't need to !
adlai: funkenstein_: most recent common ancestor. you and i have one, we and the ants have one. probably not the same one.
mircea_popescu: sentation or not has no bearing on this. and for that matter, not knowing set theory is no fucking crime, most people don't, and this includes most people who are intelligent and have intelligent things to say.
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ understand, it's not that i dislike you or that i mean to do you the boo boo or anything. but there is a difference between the guy that was taken by hand through red square and the guy who lives in moscow. and i don't believe you are familiar with a whole bunch of superior math simply because it's not possible to be so disorganised in other aspects if that were the case. whether you recognize words on pre
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i mean, it doesn't exist in any mainstream programming system, of the kind favoured by the tards
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dunno, was on the list ?
assbot: Logged on 21-11-2015 17:57:58; mircea_popescu: if you harbored any doubts the vermin in question is not merely vermin but teleguided vermin, there you go.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-11-2015#1329234 << i'm still having trouble figuring out how tailcalls came up. possibly because my redditard dosimeter is maxed out for the month
mircea_popescu: obviously the discussion of metrics, ordered sets etc is useful in the general, but i don't think he's familiar with the field and so i won't use it.
adlai: funkenstein_: "sucking less" is multidimensional, you can have progress away from the origin (MRCA?) without imposing an absolute ordering of betterness across all individuals
mircea_popescu: most tellingly, and the heuristic i generally recognize it by, is the inability to find the places where no context is possible.
funkenstein_: no it has to do with making logical statements for the purposes of communication