billymg: i've got a temporary internet solution now as well (cellular LTE via Movistar) as we work on getting the real thing
mp_en_viaje is checking out what's so great bout them o logs!
ossabot: (ossasepia) 2020-03-10 dorion: BingoBoingo, http://trilema.com/2017/remember-the-security-hole-automattic-refused-to-fix-back-in-2014?b=that.%20Well..&e=able#select isn't selecting for me.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-10#1020533 << isn't selecting for me either. the reason is that the text isn't "that, Well" but "that. <a href=blabla>Well". select dun work well with a href boundaries.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-09 22:57:45 lobbes: Also, are you good for tomorrow night or were you looking for doing this during the day? I'm slaving in the mines tomorrow but my night is clear. If need be I may be able to weasel a work-from-home day though, so I'll check back when I wake up tomorrow
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-04 04:37:32 mircea_popescu: lobbes wtf dude, you set ALL of these to 2019-12-03 22:03:06 time ?! didn't we go through an entire discussion of how it should increase monotonically ? gah.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959221 << well, do you have the item currently working somewhere ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-09 22:26:10 jfw: mp_en_viaje: do you have a specific goal in mind for Thursday's wallet work? Do you also want to use the online part (I would imagine so but could technically be done without)? If so, note that it takes about a day to scan the present blockchain once fed the address(es) of interest, and requires a TRB node. If you wish to also send the rawtx using it, as would be most proper, we'll also need that
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-09#1959219 << the functioning i'm looking for is that given some inputs (such as a privkey and txids) your program spits out a tx as is broadcast on the network.
bvt: diana_coman: i got it, the preview of how it will look like now: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=iEDJ
diana_coman: what a great #o log to start the day to! BingoBoingo draft looks good, I'd probably just add a comma after "to take shape"; and congrats to jfw on a straight-to-the-point quote!
lobbes: Also, are you good for tomorrow night or were you looking for doing this during the day? I'm slaving in the mines tomorrow but my night is clear. If need be I may be able to weasel a work-from-home day though, so I'll check back when I wake up tomorrow
lobbes: Then I realized that all that insanity was indeed because I was needlessly translating all kinds of strings across boundaries. I think the cleanest way to do this historical (May 28, 2016 to Now) log backfill is if I just provide you a text file in the same format as your "logstory.txt" you reference in this comment
ericbot: Logged on 2019-12-04 04:37:32 mircea_popescu: lobbes wtf dude, you set ALL of these to 2019-12-03 22:03:06 time ?! didn't we go through an entire discussion of how it should increase monotonically ? gah.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: do you have a specific goal in mind for Thursday's wallet work? Do you also want to use the online part (I would imagine so but could technically be done without)? If so, note that it takes about a day to scan the present blockchain once fed the address(es) of interest, and requires a TRB node. If you wish to also send the rawtx using it, as would be most proper, we'll also need that
diana_coman: bvt: also, mind packing in next vpatch either removal of that Makefile or an update to it so it covers the new .gpr files? As it is now it's doing half a job and even that unclear why via makefile anyway - it would possibly make more sense to just have one .gpr file that allows you to build all with a single command but anyways.
diana_coman: ... that; for illustration, here's the output from vtree and antecedents on eucrypt_oaep_fix_checks.vpatch (ran in the same test dir that can be had from here); antecedents gives the correct path genesis->ch6->ch7->ch9->ch10->oaep_fix_checks, but in vtree's output it's very hard to tell that ch10 is meant as child of ch9 rather than ...
diana_coman: bvt: the antecedents/descendants commands behave as expected now indeed; the output from vtree though seems confusing as it is now because of the order in which children are apparently shown in between siblings so that one has to track and count spaces to be able to say what belongs where and what seems the child of the node immediately above turns out to be meant instead of child of node 2 lines above, not sure if you intended it like ...
feedbot: http://bingology.net/2020/qntra-a-plan-for-action/ << Bingology - The Blog of Aaron 'BingoBoingo' Rogier -- Qntra: A Plan For Action
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2020/03/oil-futures-crash-as-asian-markets-open-for-the-week-with-russia-and-opec-declining-to-agree-to-production-cuts/ << Qntra -- Oil Futures Crash As Asian Markets Open For The Week With Russia And OPEC Declining To Agree To Production Cuts
diana_coman: bvt: ah, glad to hear you found the trouble; whichever way you prefer really, I can move the slot to Friday, not an issue (and otherwise plenty to fill the Monday time, heh)
bvt: diana_coman: fixed link; ty for your test set, i have the fix (totally my bad), which I can upload today in a few hours (as a vpatch) if you still have a timeslot dedicated to v.sh tomorrow, or if you prefer it with a writeup, i will publish it until thursday.
diana_coman: bvt: I forgot the "http" on the link to the .tar.gz in my latest comment on your site, would you mind fixing it for me? something's still weird with that eucrypt dir & v.sh so I've uploaded it, if anyone else wants to have a look at it.
trinque: what the everloving fuck it's doing caring about the state of a terminal is... who even would bother?
trinque: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959065 << the joke is that the bitcoin rpc interface was literally throwing an error about terminal width when being called by the deeding service.
mp_en_viaje: incidentally, anyone read the flying inn ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 20:05:24 jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959156 - I first took this as "it's fine either way" but maybe there's a question there too. Supposing the change output always came first; then, someone who knows this gets more information about how much you're sending where from looking at the transaction than if it came in a random position. And this thought would seem to extend to any process
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959178 << "change" output is only defined by sheer coincidence, owing to the poor quality of the original client. there;s really no substantial difference between this so called change and the other outputs
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 13:54:32 mp_en_viaje: yes, there is more : it drives assonances in the readership lol.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959156 - I first took this as "it's fine either way" but maybe there's a question there too. Supposing the change output always came first; then, someone who knows this gets more information about how much you're sending where from looking at the transaction than if it came in a random position. And this thought would seem to extend to any process
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 19:12:56 mp_en_viaje: but anyway, the problem never was whether single-character-x or single-character-y is to be your indentation scheme. the problem was when a unit of indentation is made up of n characters, such that 1st tabulation is implemented as three space characters, and 2nd as six.
jfw: right. well me scheme is a good bit smaller than either and will bear my signature.
mp_en_viaje: jfw, i wasn't talking about the instant case necessarily ; but in general. i expect most 2013-ish vintage itemsd have neither gnat nor python.
jfw: What's an offline machine likely to have? gnat? python? And how to install the wallet at all if no new software?
jfw: hm, I wonder how much isn't clear then. I wrote a Scheme interpreter, which is part of what I need to get published. This in turn requires only gcc.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 18:23:47 jfw: mp_en_viaje: how do you define totalitarian systems? (before I even try to add on the 'meaningful' part)
mp_en_viaje: hhttp://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959124 << and to answer the meaningful part : consider the usg's "obscenity standard". it is perfectly an' epitomatically meaningless, i care naught that a buncha idle farmhands who can't talk for all the shit in their mouth "all agree". this inexpressible agreement is the definition of meaninglessness.
mp_en_viaje: yes well, i dunno how much of this "if in the future" is useful in context. i mean, maybe the aliens invade, gouge the eyes of anyone who makes filenames under 6 characters long.
jfw: would work. Another thing coming to mind is if the two parts ended up rewritten to the same language, they could share some common details like base58. - as you say
jfw: hm, so the genesis would just be a placeholder manifest basically?
mp_en_viaje: i dunno that i'd ever want to press both at the same time ; i also don't see that they have to have separate genesises necessarily. you can press one r the other by selecting the proper branch neh ?
jfw: 3. I had planned to make a single genesis of both online (python) and offline (Scheme) parts, as it seemed sensible to have it all in one place even if the intent is to use separately, but dorion brought up whether it'd be better to have two trees. I can't quite see that having any advantages, but how about you?
mp_en_viaje: but anyway, the problem never was whether single-character-x or single-character-y is to be your indentation scheme. the problem was when a unit of indentation is made up of n characters, such that 1st tabulation is implemented as three space characters, and 2nd as six.
jfw: 2. I forget if I mentioned it in my spec but my code shuffles the order of transaction outputs, for obfuscation or general "why not". Is this reasoanble / acceptable?
mp_en_viaje: i dunno that it has to be nailed ad hoc here. there were preliminary discussions years ago that didn't resolve and haven't been revisited
jfw: So the question is... I dunno, 'wut do?' Or, can we leave this one for now?
jfw: mp_en_viaje: a few other questions come up as I prepare to genesis. 1: tabs vs spaces - my Scheme code is all spaces and I don't know how to reasonably do it otherwise; lisp has established indenting conventions that tend to line things up nicely but require 1-column granularity. Somehow, setting the tabstop to 1 doesn't seem like any kind of solution (and still not sure I even grasp the problem).
jfw: Can I assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with gcc for the install?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 07:21:22 mp_en_viaje: jfw, my intention is to use https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/address/1334rdsG6UuzEXUep6wU3kj87U2U8FPA4M/ through your http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/bitcoin-transactions-and-their-signing-1/?b=nears&e=completion#select to pay off http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958780 an' http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958773 ; do you want to schedule a time this coming week to work to
jfw: Moving on though: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959066 - I'm honored; was spinning a bit on "but what if it fucks up and zaps more coin than I've ever laid hands on??" but yeah, can't wait for another life, it's about time
jfw: somewhat aware, seen some of their 'artistic' products at least
mp_en_viaje: anyway, the problem with the textbook go-to examples of totalitarian systems, namely the various attempts at socialism in the 20th century, is that they're very weak examples of totalitarian systems and comparatively much stronger examples of closed systems. that's their salient feature, their closedness, universally premature, and by a rather mengele hand.
mp_en_viaje: for as long as you live, your death does not exist, and therefore is no concern of yours; once your death exists or whatever actualizes itself there's necessarily nobody any longer there to fret about it.
jfw: ha! not familiar with the stoic argument, would it be something like "once you're dead you no longer have the problem of coming death"?
mp_en_viaje: and re classification and completeness : linneus' system is always complete, as per the usual stoic argument re death : just before a "new species is found" it is complete because well... and just after a new species is found, it is STILL just as complete, because by the very description as is required to show the new species it also necessarily completes itself.
mp_en_viaje: this guy (who was in spain, and who was in many other early soups back when all these players were still kids or unheard of) said it about hitler something like good gracious, he won't do, he's a vegetarian teetotalitarian. chesterton and the crowd picked it up.
mp_en_viaje: o look, the internets don't know about it.
mp_en_viaje: much like the problem of medicine for 1-2000 years wasn't that it was practiced at all ; but that it was practiced by barbers. hence the hippocratic oath,
mp_en_viaje: this is a weakass approach, however. the problem with totalitarian systems isn't that they exist ; but that they're made by (and for) "vegetarian teetotalitarians", to quote ray campbell since he was on trilema recently. ie idiots.
mp_en_viaje: (and the dear love of the pantsuit for non-totalitarian comes exactly from this -- it comes with a guarantee to not bruise his definitional laziness.)
mp_en_viaje: there's no properly speaking scientific reason to do or not do anything, specifically because science is not totalitarian.
jfw: quite different from the googapedia definition indeed. would it be accurate to say then that science is a process of attempting to formulate a totalitarian system?
mp_en_viaje: i suppose something like "complete" would be more intuitively appealing ; but a complete (or realised) system is one that merely satisfies the first criterion. things like the linnaeus classification have been complete since their introduction, for instance.
mp_en_viaje: to be totalitarian a system makes two explicit promises : that no objects existing can be found that don't map on objects included ; and that no valid questions can be formulated on those objects that the system fails to answer.
mp_en_viaje: jfw, a system is the cognitive equivalent of an algebra : a srt of elements and the operations defined on them. the problem of systems is the adequacy between themselves and reality.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 18:31:58 mp_en_viaje: they still exist for the same exact existential reasoning, which is very much the only way to have meaningful totalitarian systems in the first place.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: how do you define totalitarian systems? (before I even try to add on the 'meaningful' part)
jfw: I got that re the hash(hash( at least.
mp_en_viaje feels the need to point out that the exact scheme described is ~merely intended as an example of the principle~, not proposed to be actually used. since idiots are reading.
mp_en_viaje: sure, ~in theory~ you can do the job. in practice it'll be done just as soon as alf makes a business work.
mp_en_viaje: now consider your job is to "forensic analyze" a 2 TB file which was produced by taking the contents of a luzer hdd and xor'ing it with a PRNG working on the premise of hash ( hash (..... hash ( password)
mp_en_viaje: jfw, sure, in the absolute sense it is true.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 18:59:35 mp_en_viaje: in which same vein, "user password" in the shape of FS symmetrically encrypted such that withoyut password you can read any other OTP out of it that you wish, and so on.
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959036 - hmm, I thought Shannon proved you can't have that without the pad having at least as many bits as the message. If there's more possible FS states than passwords, then I can find one that can't be pulled out by any key - reminds me of Cantor's diagonalization
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 18:28:59 mp_en_viaje: in any case i'm not proceeding from an utilitarian perspective, "this should exist because the user would benefit". the logic informing the concept is rather existential, "for such a thing as an operating system to meaningfully exist, the self-destruct must be in the operator's hands at all times"
mp_en_viaje: god knows you've a much better shot not to mention shorter trip to me by talking to hannah, than by trying to talk to whatever broker / expert / etc that bought me lehman.
mp_en_viaje: actually come to think of it, the guy's daughter, epstein's 17yo whore, henry ford's wife etc are way the fuck a better in than the "financial advisor".
mp_en_viaje: exactly like the point with "informative radio progeramming" or w/e i was discussing with whaack on his blog : you can ask whatever, but in the end you're still talking to the call center. "and when you get there, you'll still be in a pontiac", as lefty put it. see ?
mp_en_viaje: moreover kinda the point of the whole system, you can't talk to the owners becayse "nobody knows who they are" because they "got together" and gave all their money up to a state "company" to "manage it" for them, which it does deliberately in this specific manner. you might as well ask the call center costa rican / indian / whatever to connect you to the company president's daughter's private cellphone.
mp_en_viaje: he doesn't get to "disengage hr" or "work from home" ; and if he tries, well, the leverage goes away. which being the whole point of his existence, is not negotiable.
mp_en_viaje: this is not going to fly, because it's not his money. he's approximately in the position of the hooker leaning on a parked mercedes, he doesn't get to say anything about where it goes. the northface / sketchers went on the cc, like the purchases of every other employee.
dorion: I don't right now because I don't have any license. I could put effort into making relationship with licensed operations, but thought I'd ask you since the minimal exposure I have to those smelled more like incomptence.
mp_en_viaje: i mean, the one informative analogy here is i suppose an insured plumber, or even better a union shop. if you're uninsured and want to do plumbing for some guy who needs plumbing done, either he drops the "i want an insured plumber" or you go get insured. same with a union shop : if you wanna work there, either you bust the union or else join the union.
mp_en_viaje: but this isn't what most anyone using the term will expect it to mean, especially if they own a dog, let alone a car or a secretary or anything
mp_en_viaje: it was (mosty, ineptly) co-opted by the early bitcoin crowd to denote a sort of non-repudiable, no-third-party deal
mp_en_viaje: https://markets.cboe.com/europe/equities/market_statistics/otc_reporting/?mkt=trf << here's i suppose a primer. otc originally means "over the counter", it;'s a term of art in finance.
mp_en_viaje: i mean, there's an actual otc market, i traded on it, so have most people, it's still regulated as much as any market,
mp_en_viaje: not without knowing what the regulations are or in general like that ?
dorion: do you have a recommendation for how I could counter this fiat mindedness when talking with those adapted to the fiat regulation ?
dorion: I'm pretty inexperienced on the bank based side of otc and the couple otc desks I've talked to don't seem so much different than the website exchanges, e.g. use phone apps and/or gmail to facilitate the deals, aren't using gpg or the wot, etc.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-07 06:44:26 mp_en_viaje: but enough of the sandals.
dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959062 - I'm looking forward to this time next year when ~everyone has forgotten him and he's no longer brought up ~everytime I answer the question of where I'm from. can go back to mountains, marble, maple syrup and ben & jerry's.
diana_coman: aww, jfw missed a 5th s in there with that predations.
ericbot: Logged on 2020-03-07 11:12:40 mp_en_viaje: lobbes, ima be playing with sluts in the water this weekend ; but come say tuesday, we sit down and finally complete that project ?
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2020/thou-lector-or-the-manifest-of-modernity/ << Trilema -- Thou lector (or, the Manifest of Modernity),
mp_en_viaje: lobbes, ima be playing with sluts in the water this weekend ; but come say tuesday, we sit down and finally complete that project ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-02 17:35:02 mod6: mp_en_viaje: Hey there, Sir. Now that you're back to CR (glad you had a good trip), plz to process mpex withdrawls when you have an extra few minutes. Thanks in advance.
mp_en_viaje: jfw, my intention is to use https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/address/1334rdsG6UuzEXUep6wU3kj87U2U8FPA4M/ through your http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/bitcoin-transactions-and-their-signing-1/?b=nears&e=completion#select to pay off http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958780 an' http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958773 ; do you want to schedule a time this coming week to work together on it, make the p
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-02#1958782 << aaand in other lulz, this still not deeded.
mp_en_viaje: but enough of the sandals.
mp_en_viaje: Such successful ratholes the socialists built, that per same ACS 2014, median value of single-family home = $131k, possibly last place on continental us where such wonder exists. only 5k of them, too, but if nobody wants...
mp_en_viaje: "In 1981, he campaigned against the unpopular plans by Burlington developer Tony Pomerleau to convert the then-industrial waterfront property owned by the Central Vermont Railway into expensive condominiums, hotels, and offices. He ran under the slogan "Burlington is not for sale" and successfully supported a plan that redeveloped the waterfront area into a mixed-use district featuring housing, parks, and public spaces."
mp_en_viaje: ACS, 2014 : median household income $37,078, per capita income for the city was $25,589, 16.9% of families and 30.7% of the population below the poverty line. needless to say this wasn't the case in the 70s.
mp_en_viaje: ers are interested in the carcass).
mp_en_viaje: proof : In 2007, the city was named one of the top four "places to watch" in the United States by the American Association of Retired Persons (AARP). The ratings were based on what was perceived as ideal qualities for older residents. Criteria included the factors that make a community livable: new urbanism, smart growth, mixed-use development, and easy-living standards (also known as the place being a ruin so decrepit, not even the nigg
mp_en_viaje: t when Sanders won by just ten votes" << ten years later, burlington, virginia was indeed a ruin, and the moron in question started offering his services on a countrywide basis.
mp_en_viaje: "Sanders castigated the pro-development incumbent as an ally of prominent shopping center developer Antonio Pomerleau, while Paquette warned of ruin for Burlington if Sanders were elected. The Sanders campaign was bolstered by a wave of optimistic volunteers as well as by a series of endorsements from university professors, social welfare agencies, and the police union. The final result came as a shock to the local political establishmen
mp_en_viaje: what is even the point of having some naturally retarded octogenarian president ? oh, wait, right, right, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-08#1956709
mp_en_viaje: dude;s born before the fucking war, what a fucking joke.
BingoBoingo: Down here in Uruguay, Dengue is the more immediate threat. Still, the new government that swore in on Sunday already started sweeping up pichis and moving them into shelters.
BingoBoingo: The audition for 2020's Hillary is down to Mr. Sandals, Biden, and that Tulsi chick the US media refused to talk about all campaign.
BingoBoingo: But... the case against the US doing this are their tech is behind and the US is an incredibly geriatricentric mess.
BingoBoingo: Well, It's the Iranian supposing it. Very well could have been Eritrea, Kenya, Israel, or the pangolins. I weighted the Iranian saying this as worthwhile on their January humiliation of Trump, Pompeo, and the US military. Maybe they unload some elderly and hang the US with this. Yes hitting the Italian and Iranian geriatric states is incredibly lulzy, but I suspect there's a deeper bench behind Iran's geriatrics than the US raised. The
mp_en_viaje: the iranis don't wanna be the most lulzily vulnerable group to such things, how about they a) start sucking cock thrice a day and b) get some people under 50 involved in their lemon party.
mp_en_viaje: and what sense does this make, the us is so way the fuck behind in biotech it could just as well be eritreea, but it nevertheless infected the heartland of chinese manufacture, notwithstanding that the chines aren't quite as backward nor is that place so easily accessible [as others would have been] just to get to some utterly obscure and very deeply isolated community of predictably self-selected geriatrics ?
mp_en_viaje: in which same vein, "user password" in the shape of FS symmetrically encrypted such that withoyut password you can read any other OTP out of it that you wish, and so on.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 14:39:09 jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958985 - so a "shred" command not good enough then? Ignoring the issue that drives have brains of their own these days, is there value in an emergency self-destruct button that depends on a substantial duration of continued external power supply?
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959020 << a shred command is a command, ie, a user space program. a kernel call is a kernel call. i don't care how it is exposed ; i deeply care the kernel isn't ~built around it~.
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959015 << i think gawk doesn't actually have this problem. i tend not to use it because of all the networking bs.
mp_en_viaje: i think giving away a monopoly to existential thought away to the usg and limiting self to the merely municipal "utilitarian" perspective is not much better, nor in fact substantially different from giving them a monopoly on coinage. which i take we're not willing to give.
ossabot: Logged on 2016-06-30 11:33:02 a111: Logged on 2015-01-30 05:51 mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.
mp_en_viaje: they still exist for the same exact existential reasoning, which is very much the only way to have meaningful totalitarian systems in the first place.
mp_en_viaje: then from that node we can proceed to a "well, how's this to be implemented ? should there eg be a wipeage button or not worth bothering with". i think it's worth bothering with for the statement it makes, for everyone, users and producers alike ; even if it's neither useful nor used. lots of things are neither used nor used, like say the us supreme court.
mp_en_viaje: in any case i'm not proceeding from an utilitarian perspective, "this should exist because the user would benefit". the logic informing the concept is rather existential, "for such a thing as an operating system to meaningfully exist, the self-destruct must be in the operator's hands at all times"
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 14:22:14 jfw: Or small children... if there's a button, it will be pushed
mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959012 << it's a matter of principle rather than anything ; i think it's poor practice to argue against principles on the basis of expediency. how useful the item is in practice is a fine discussion to be had, sure ; but can only be had on the actually sound basis of having the item in the first place.
diana_coman: and sure, one can still branch (effectively on the manifest file), but again, I don't see the situation where the leaves are not obvious even in a huge tree.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 14:31:55 jfw: bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958964 - with a manifest, multiple leaves would happen when there are different branches building on a common ancestor and not reground into linearity, no?
diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1959017 - if you mean the branches from before the manifest was introduced in that specific tree, it's not that much "with a manifest" really; but in any case, regardless of how many leaves there are, they are still obvious enough in a tree text dump so that I don't think it's needed separately as such.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 05:11:03 mp_en_viaje: jfw, incidentally, thinking about it -- the one (and, for that matter, only) item that actually needs first class, os support is user-initiated, thorough, complete and reliable storage media destruction.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958985 - so a "shred" command not good enough then? Ignoring the issue that drives have brains of their own these days, is there value in an emergency self-destruct button that depends on a substantial duration of continued external power supply?
jfw: and if, say, every gtk prog is done by building on the gtk tree (not finding the ref but I recall MP explaining it to me thus), this could be a pretty common situation
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 03:55:25 bvt: diana_coman: i have a question about leafs command: can you explain how you use it? i gave it some thought, and honestly i fail to see how it is useful: after adding the manifest which linearizes the vpatches, "leafs" reports only one leaf, without showing the split vtree branches before it.
jfw: bvt: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-06#1958964 - with a manifest, multiple leaves would happen when there are different branches building on a common ancestor and not reground into linearity, no?
jfw: re cats, there was that time when an out-of-print proprietary unix install CD, irreplaceable artifact, was destroyed. Engineers had left it on a table, y'know, in the server room, near the screwdrivers and such. Not the ideal of orderliness, sure, but not the worst either. What engineers forgot was that CEO liked to bring cats to the office (to better acclimate them to people and travel).
jfw: Or small children... if there's a button, it will be pushed
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 05:13:18 mp_en_viaje: you do q-qw-q-w-q or w/e you set it to, that's IT, prepare the bootable isos.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-06 04:08:24 mp_en_viaje: billymg, http://trilema.com/2020/our-democracy-or-rather-mostly-theirs/#comment-147687 << you know, i actually live in costa rica, i ain't going anywhere. what http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-03#1958805 means is that i'll be in costa rica till late may, and then from june onwards ; it's true i've lived 11 months in 33 or some shit euro towns, but that was a brief interruption as these things go -- be
mp_en_viaje: the odd end result of the porn revolution was the... sexualization of everything, including capital and reason. you're now welcome to find the "average" wealth or "average" thought, even "average" taste -- much like you're welcome to find the average man-woman
mp_en_viaje: basically, the problem of the denied middle is not merely "there's no such thing as middle class any longer possible -- either get very rich or be very poor" ; but also "there's no such thing as common sense remaining, either become moron type 1 or else moron type W".
mp_en_viaje: http://archive.is/7LwE5 << not that the other side is any better. imagine, all the "socially well adjusted" morons who can't add managed to re-do the same trite nonsense 50000 times, NOT ONE thinking to mention... i dunno, any of the self-obvious points, from "it depends on what is is" and onwards.
mp_en_viaje: funnier than the genuine article ; but also squickier proportionally.
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, the armin hemel buhbye at the end is qyite lulzy ; otherwise there's loads of more or less comedic stuff on that site. https://fsfellowship.eu/gnu-censors-the-united-nations-report-cybertorture-rms/
mp_en_viaje: it likely occupies a space in time in between the appearance of laughter as a group-generating social behaviour and the apparition of the voices.
mp_en_viaje: incidentally, from a sadly-still-practicing anthropologist pov, this notion (that a) "all the enemy is the same enemy" and b) "the name for it is satan") is quite likely the oldest human idea ; much older than any kind of religion howsoever loosely defined, and i suspect OLDER THAN LANGUAGE.
diana_coman: I have no idea; that's what the spam said and it made to me ~as much sense as that log.
mp_en_viaje: might as well dump https://fsfellowship.eu/fsfe-resignations-and-expulsions/ lulz into the archive.
mp_en_viaje: you do q-qw-q-w-q or w/e you set it to, that's IT, prepare the bootable isos.
mp_en_viaje: absolutely with no "gui" or otherwise interaction whatever.
mp_en_viaje: there's no real need for ctrl-alt-del to be supported. there is however an absolute need for some manner of user-set, five-keystroke wipe-everything.
mp_en_viaje: jfw, incidentally, thinking about it -- the one (and, for that matter, only) item that actually needs first class, os support is user-initiated, thorough, complete and reliable storage media destruction.
mp_en_viaje: a coupla years, and even if before that argentina etc, as i told the (new) manager of my old indian restaurant : "i've been coming here for fifteen years". literally, since 2005, just about this time of year, place's had at least three owners that i know of in the interval and a dozen or more generations of peacocks, but i perdure.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-03 12:40:10 mp_en_viaje: jfw, well, i plan on maybe going to rio late may ; other than that i'll be mostly around. pick a day, i don't specifically care which and it doesn't make any sense for you to try and coordinate with large groups at large distances -- if indeed there's a gathering you can take the hourish trip down again, at the considerable cost to you of a lunch out or w/e it is.
mp_en_viaje: billymg, http://trilema.com/2020/our-democracy-or-rather-mostly-theirs/#comment-147687 << you know, i actually live in costa rica, i ain't going anywhere. what http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-03#1958805 means is that i'll be in costa rica till late may, and then from june onwards ; it's true i've lived 11 months in 33 or some shit euro towns, but that was a brief interruption as these things go -- before that i lived in cr
diana_coman: bvt: cool, I should be able to give it another spin on Monday the latest (or so is the current plan).
diana_coman adds it to the list of wtf.
diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: well, since it does, there must be an issue; no reason though, lol.
mp_en_viaje: btw diana_coman is there some reason A Walk among the Trees of V stands out in http://ossasepia.com/2019/ ?
mp_en_viaje: bvt, i think a large part of it is that indeed this tool is evoloving ; and has been, but deliberately under the specific sort of pressurte, which comes with usage. you're not under some great weight of "having to get it perfectly & forever right" now, just as mod6 or ben_vulpes or anytone else wasn't 3 years ago.
diana_coman: or at least no need that I can see, even if the tree is huge.
diana_coman: bvt: looks perfectly fine to me; and as long as there is how to see the whole tree in text , there's no need as such for separate leaves, no
bvt: btw, "vtree" command name is also subject to discussion, and it still shows the "leafs" with '(*)' mark.
bvt: i extended the examples to also show vpatches selected for presses (http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=8Hrq): would this make "leafs" not needed in your view?
mp_en_viaje: but this no longer seems a sufficien tstatement of the problem. has he EVER been right ? is there such a thing as the wonder of ONE correct prediction since he went along his merry stupid way ?
mp_en_viaje: diana_coman, i am too lazy to search where in the discussion on which blog inside which comment i made months ago the point that he's very poor at estimating anything and generally (and universally unreviewed) wrong
bvt: diana_coman: i have a question about leafs command: can you explain how you use it? i gave it some thought, and honestly i fail to see how it is useful: after adding the manifest which linearizes the vpatches, "leafs" reports only one leaf, without showing the split vtree branches before it.
diana_coman: I doubt being right is their concern at all really.
mp_en_viaje: have these idiots EVER been right about ANY ONE THING ?
mp_en_viaje: so you don't like lexis texas... fine, take her out. you wanna put eleni mitzali there instead ? fine, copy/paste it in, or instead. or change the order, or whatever the fuck. it's your fucking file. what the fuck.
mp_en_viaje: man asciilifeform & his gravitating windbag make for SUCH a moron field... what THE FUCK is "centralizing" about http://billymg.com/2020/01/mp-wp-patch-viewer-and-code-shelf/comment-page-1/#comment-77 ?
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-21 01:58:17 mircea_popescu: jfw, tell mom to come in sometime, i wouldn't mind commissioning ru versions of some trilema articles from ye 30year veteran editor of the executive intelligence review.
jfw: I tried a nearby "GNU Awk 4.1.3" on 1gb of `yes`. The direct reading was consistently slower than both input redirection and cat | , which is certainly suspicious in itself; seemed to work though
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-04 10:38:48 mp_en_viaje: aaand in "other questions nobody [was smart enough to have] asked of me" : "hey mp, why do you always cat file | awk ? isn't it awkward ? don't you know awk can load its own file directly by itself ?"
jfw: also http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-04#1958852 occurred to me, and I figured "to irritate the kind of people who complain about such things". Looks like I should indeed ask more things.
jfw: well then, seems we're solving a bigger problem than I realized
mp_en_viaje: burn them.
mp_en_viaje: proposing to continue with "here, like this, there, like that" nonsense is much like proposing to continue with a formulation of arithmetic that has no 0 "because look at all these abacuses we made".
mp_en_viaje: jfw, what casn you do ? humanity requires a universal comment format, because there may not be computers before there's no literate code.
mp_en_viaje: honestly i think my first guess is also correct, /* */ is the widest
mp_en_viaje: maybe ;; is the right choice ? o, no, of course not, C semanticized that too
jfw: Different comment syntax in different languages. bash uses # while C has quite another meaning for that character for example.
mp_en_viaje: anyway, an extra line with ** is missing there to make it all right
mp_en_viaje: it was intended to be valid comment. i am annimated by the vague hope that there can be such a thing as "comment" in all languages
jfw: The splitting of signatures from plaintext just described.
jfw: The idea is that the original can be fed to the compiler / vpatch presser / whatever without such preprocessing though right? Hence the comment characters? Because for one obvious thing the "*/ The Republic prevails." would not be valid C (not trying to be pedantic, rather wondering if this illuminates some misunderstanding.)
mp_en_viaje: the 1st fragment is the plaintext and the 2nd fragment is a line-array of signatures in the comment space hash format.
mp_en_viaje: in limine, it just looks for any file that ends with "*/ The Republic prevails. (2f20 5468 6520 5265 7075 626c 6963 2070 7265 7661 696c 732e 0a)", strips the first comment and splits the remainder by 2f2a 2053 6967 6e61 7475 7265 7320 666f 6c6c 6f77 203a 0a
jfw: the ** etc.
mp_en_viaje: now, that important part in there : are you asking how is the program to distinguish 4 through 9 from lines 11 through 14 ?
mp_en_viaje: well then your problem has just been mostly resolved. you have to read up on padding, ideally start with shoup's restatement of oaep
jfw: hm, I've heard of it but was under the impression that padding is a different thing.
jfw: mp_en_viaje: I mighta tried to stuff too much into one article... my original goal was to explain how bitcoin transactions embed the signatures in the broader context of other ways it can be done.
mp_en_viaje: moreover, how do bitcoin transactions figure into it ? are you talking about "the clearsigning proposal" as in, http://billymg.com/2020/01/mp-wp-patch-viewer-and-code-shelf/comment-page-1/#comment-75 ?
jfw: mp_en_viaje: well a signature can't sign itself, yes? so there is some transformation from clearsigned file to hash input.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-04 01:38:36 mircea_popescu: so given bvt's recent and indeed quite shiny work on a new v : is there any interest in actually attempting something like the new clearsign scheme ?
jfw: proposal, but perhaps more simply asked: how is the message to be hashed+signed derived from the input with signatures in comments? And is that language-specific or what?
jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-02-04#1957893 - diana_coman observes I need more practice at figuring things out through discussion / asking than quietly on my own. Anyway, in my latest I've attempted to sort out my thoughts on the matter. There are some questions there on the clearsigning
diana_coman: well, the pics I really wish I had would cover the '80s rather, so dunno; but anyway, since can't take them in past, might as well take them when there next, what else to do.
mp_en_viaje: there's a piece where ballas makes the point that "private" in the us just means state-owned-without-benefits (that he meanwhile carefully deleted from his own site) ; panama is exactly the same thing in state terms : another way of being a us state but without benefitting from fed printouts.
mp_en_viaje: whatevs, panama's got nothing to lose, for lack of having got anything in the first place.
dorion: dangerous indeed, but seems like "do what us says" is entrenched as only option since, by agreement, will lose canal and maybe eat bombs again otherwise.
mp_en_viaje: dorion, sounds like a pretty dangerous course for a dying state, because the whole hope of extending survival is currently pinned on real estate monetization.
mp_en_viaje: in any case, this is the fundamental defect of all utopian "thinking", of the reformation ("the testament i read, and the testament that is, are the same testament!!!") in general, and of pretty much all usian attempts, from "believe women" to "manifest destiny" or w/e. this hope to one thing.
dorion: he still got paid from it, but took the lower referral commission.
mp_en_viaje: trilema is chock full of great stories (that happen to be true, sure, but they're not great, nor are they greater for being true)
mp_en_viaje: "people shouldn't lie" "motherfucker, I WAS TELLING A STORY!!!" what, "nevertheless!!!" what is this, jeffersonian democracy ?
mp_en_viaje: it is substantially the same as the male equivalent (which for some reason is formally opposite, "i leased 20k chicks in one year!!!". cool!
mp_en_viaje: right. one day i met a girl, we fucked, then she told me i am her third. this happens ; what do i care ? i didn't refrain from anything until her claim checked out (nor did i bother checking), what difference does it possibly make.
dorion: I didn't mean it as how I treat them, but what my expectations are.
mp_en_viaje: doesn't even have to be as harsh as all that. literature is not history nor history literature ; no ought yet flew from any is, in other words... you recall bacon ?
dorion: mp_en_viaje discount what they say until they've executed on an offer ? act as if the check isn't going to cash until it does.
mp_en_viaje: there's two things.
mp_en_viaje: it's not a matter of degree, it's a matter of "does the man think there's one thing, or does the man think there's two things ?"
mp_en_viaje: the other's illustrated in glengarry glenn ross, "I want to show you something. It might mean nothing to you...and it might not. I don't know. I don't know anymore. What is that? Florida. Glengarry Highlands. Florida. "Florida. Bullshit." And maybe that's true; and that's what I said: but look here: what is this? This is a piece of land. Listen to what I'm going to tell you now:"
mp_en_viaje: dorion, but there's a difference between the jokes they tell and the offer sheets they carry. the first is illustrated in la grande belezza, "Se non prendo sul serio Proust, che ci prendo sul serio ?" "Ma niente. Niente non devi prendere sul serio, acceti il menu, naturalmente."
dorion: in this case in particular, a friend made the intro and brought me to the guys' office. later we went for drinks, watched a fight, talked about non-business things. a week or two passed and he came back wanting another meeting to discuss how we work with them.
dorion: in my mind, I talk to people to see who'd be a good fit. based on what they say, I decide if I want to continue talking to them. part of
dorion: mp_en_viaje hm, not sure I do see. you're baiting to see the degree to which I remain ustardian painted into the corner ? ftr, I for sure want to be aware.
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2020/i-suppose-we-shall-now-recount-the-story-of-the-czech-teenager/ << Trilema -- I suppose we shall now recount the story of the Czech teenager
diana_coman clears up a pile of paper notes as the write-up is finally done.
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2020/03/04/no-bones-in-thy-skeleton-and-no-theory-in-thy-research/ << Ossa Sepia -- No Bones in Thy Skeleton and No Theory in Thy Research
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-19 21:23:42 mircea_popescu: "literate" veals, very capable of scribbling their own name in an alphabet of their choice (somehow nobody notices "using an alphabet of your own choice" is THE OPPOSITE OF SPELLING, and the exact definition of illiteracy -- all the fucking farmhands who can't read or write COULD scribble something down, anyone can screech random squgg;lies, with a shovel in a pile of dirt, with their own piss on driven snow, f
mp_en_viaje: aaand in "other questions nobody [was smart enough to have] asked of me" : "hey mp, why do you always cat file | awk ? isn't it awkward ? don't you know awk can load its own file directly by itself ?"
mp_en_viaje: you asking me how to verify an anecdote, the very substance of social banter, denotes you miss the point ; and it paints my observation in its true colors : i'm baiting, because i suspect you might.
mp_en_viaje: back at reality, however, things stand a little differently : ustardians have, for some ungodly reason, painted themselves in such a corner of insecurity, anxiety and inferiority selfcomplexation, ALL their social banter consists of these lame as fuck self-anecdotes, like a bunch of neoprotestant farmers discussing nothing but their crops, and how well they've done ploughing. goldarn an' blue blazes!!!
mp_en_viaje: this is, perhaps, a weird thing to say ; then again i'm a weird sort of guy. to retort that "well... how would i go about verifying it" is pretty good repartee in the fancied context i just described.
mp_en_viaje: and i say "you know, from experience these never actually occured".
mp_en_viaje: upon you return, you recount how it went. one of the things you say is "hey, do you know the one with the two nuns and the...", on the basis of a fellow latex salesman unknown to us having told you a dirty joke over drinks one night in the hotel lobby, after coming back from the business and before going up to the personal assistants in the rooms.
mp_en_viaje: suppose you were a latex salesman ; suppose we both and with these other fellows worked for a latex mfg co. suppose you were sent to a latex convention sometime. suppose there you met some fellows, did some business, had some drinks, maybe a local secretary up to your hotel room, whatever.
ossabot: Logged on 2020-03-02 16:06:09 dorion: aok. we sent him the proposal today, so we'll soon find out.
mp_en_viaje: maybe the bimbo, i'm old and lazy. but ty!
whaack: mp_en_viaje: cool, if you do a beach trip nearby and would like to surf I'll take care of the boards etc.
mp_en_viaje: whaack, i usually beach central rather than north, but maybe we drive up there one day, check it out
whaack: mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-01#1958708 Apologies, I had responded to this without having +v and didn't realize the message didn't go through. (thankfully jfw pointed out I had missed the msg) I'm in Playa Junquillal, a beach in Guanacaste (the nearest city is Santa Cruz) . It's pretty close to billymg's location. I am game for the 28th.
billymg: anytime after tuesday should work, just so i can rest after the flight over